Power Cords
 

Hi,

How important is the quality of power cords in a high end system?
Does it really make a difference in sound?

Thanks,

Vasilis

Power Cords
 

wrote:

How important is the quality of power cords in a high end system?

Very important. Mains voltage is dangerous. Power cords should comply
with appropriate regulations, and be properly insulated and constructed.

I guess that's not what you mean, though...

Does it really make a difference in sound?

No.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...s-12-2004.html

--
Mark.
http://tranchant.plus.com/

Power Cords
 

In article . com,
wrote:
How important is the quality of power cords in a high end system?
Does it really make a difference in sound?

Yes. You need to get a super duper new power cable that goes all the way
back to the power station.

--
*Red meat is not bad for you. Fuzzy green meat is bad for you.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Power Cords
 

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:39:10 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article . com,
wrote:
How important is the quality of power cords in a high end system?
Does it really make a difference in sound?

Yes. You need to get a super duper new power cable that goes all the way
back to the power station.

Don't forget that those turbines need rewinding with silver wire.

d

Power Cords
 

How important is the quality of power cords in a high end system?

A year ago I was looking to buy a secondhand amplifier and found what I
wanted at a price I was willing to pay but it had an "improved" power
cable. I had two problems: firstly, people who do this sort of thing
are unlikely to be competent at working with electronic components and,
secondly, if someone saw me using an amplifier with a fancy power cable
it would be embarrassing. Replacing power cables devalues the resale
price of an amplifer (as do most modifications).

Does it really make a difference in sound?

What are the chances that a company cabable of designing and
constructing an audio amplifier is going to use an inadequate power
cable?

It does raise an interesting point though. When the nonsense around
speaker cables took off, speaker companies had to stop supplying
speaker cables. If they supplied normal wire it put off audiophiles and
if they supplied fancy cables the more technically competent would be
put off. Have the manufacturers of audiophile amplifiers started
supplying amplifiers without power cables?

Power Cords
 

On 18 Oct 2005 04:01:16 -0700, "
wrote:

Does it really make a difference in sound?

Only if it doesn't reach.

Kal

Power Cords
 

When you asked the question what answer were you looking for ? This news
group is fully of highly qualified experts who will tell you that cables
make no difference. Those who believe differently have ceased to argue.
Russ Andrews offers sale or return, claims great things for his cables and
gives reasons why he says they work, he would he sells cables as do lots of
other companies. Would I spend £800 on a mains cable I thought made the
music sound better, no! but I have bought Kimber mains and heard an
improvement. Some will say this is either just in my mind and that on a DBT
I would not be able to tell the difference or that my system is flawed and
badly designed. Why not try a few cables and let us know if it made any
difference for you ?
Regards Richard
New Ash Green Hi-Fi Club
wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi,

How important is the quality of power cords in a high end system?
Does it really make a difference in sound?

Thanks,

Vasilis

Power Cords
 

In article ,
Richard Wall wrote:
When you asked the question what answer were you looking for ? This
news group is fully of highly qualified experts who will tell you that
cables make no difference.

That's not strictly true. Try 'adequately' specified cables.

Those who believe differently have ceased to argue. Russ Andrews offers
sale or return, claims great things for his cables and gives reasons why
he says they work, he would he sells cables as do lots of other
companies. Would I spend £800 on a mains cable I thought made the music
sound better, no! but I have bought Kimber mains and heard an
improvement.

So would you expect the same improvment if you used that lead on an
electric kettle? Faster boiling? Because although interconnects and
speaker cables have to be able to handle varying frequencies etc, a mains
cable doesn't. And it's also connected to many yards of mains cable
feeding the socket. Then many miles of cable feeding the house from the
power station.

Some will say this is either just in my mind and that on a
DBT I would not be able to tell the difference or that my system is
flawed and badly designed. Why not try a few cables and let us know if
it made any difference for you ?

Everyone who decides to buy designer mains cables *will* hear a
difference. Pavlov's dog, etc.


Regards Richard New Ash Green Hi-Fi Club

Right. ;-)

--
*Lottery: A tax on people who are bad at math.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Power Cords
 

Power Cords
 

wrote in message ups.com...
Hi,

How important is the quality of power cords in a high end system?
Does it really make a difference in sound?

Thanks,

Vasilis

Mains power integrity does not come into phonic consideration at all. Just assume it's always there on hand.
The audio (data, video, or whatever else) is routed, manouevred, amplified and output from a multi-stage device running off a PSU (or several) whose low or medium voltage is now modified to give stable high-quality DC.
So, the answer to your poser is a big No!
Now go worry about something else.
Jim

Power Cords
 

wrote:

Hi,

How important is the quality of power cords in a high end system?
Does it really make a difference in sound?

Thanks,

Vasilis


Slightly off topic:

A pro amplifier designer of my acquaintance told me that he hated IEC
power inlets for amplifiers because he had measured up to 7V drop across
them in test.

Anyone else agree / disagree ?

Power Cords
 

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi,

How important is the quality of power cords in a high end system?

**Not at all.

Does it really make a difference in sound?

**Nope. I prove this regularly to people who are deluded into thinking that
it makes a difference. Follow my logic:

I use an amplifier which has no speaker relay protection systems. Therefore,
when it is unplugged, it can still deliver power to the speakers, for as
long as the main capacitor banks can supply it. The main filter caps total
250,000uF. This means the amplifier can deliver a handful of Watts for
several seconds. Plugging and unplugging the amp from the 240VAC mains
supply is inaudible to all listeners. Therefore, there can never be any
difference between power cords.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Power Cords
 

"Luke Siemaszko" wrote in message
...


wrote:

Hi,

How important is the quality of power cords in a high end system?
Does it really make a difference in sound?

Thanks,

Vasilis


Slightly off topic:

A pro amplifier designer of my acquaintance told me that he hated IEC
power inlets for amplifiers because he had measured up to 7V drop across
them in test.

Anyone else agree / disagree ?

**That is certainly possible, if:

* The amplifier is consuming huge amounts of power.
* The IEC connectors are of very poor quality.
* The IEC connectors are very old/worn/corroded.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Power Cords
 

On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 00:53:38 GMT, Luke Siemaszko
wrote:

wrote:

Hi,

How important is the quality of power cords in a high end system?
Does it really make a difference in sound?

Thanks,

Vasilis


Slightly off topic:

A pro amplifier designer of my acquaintance told me that he hated IEC
power inlets for amplifiers because he had measured up to 7V drop across
them in test.

Anyone else agree / disagree ?

If that ever really happened, the socket would overheat and burn out.
He may be referring to the combination of plug, socket and fuse -
which would make him pretty incompetent.

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Power Cords
 

Trevor Wilson wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

Hi,

How important is the quality of power cords in a high end system?


**Not at all.


Does it really make a difference in sound?


**Nope. I prove this regularly to people who are deluded into thinking that
it makes a difference. Follow my logic:

I use an amplifier which has no speaker relay protection systems. Therefore,
when it is unplugged, it can still deliver power to the speakers, for as
long as the main capacitor banks can supply it. The main filter caps total
250,000uF. This means the amplifier can deliver a handful of Watts for
several seconds. Plugging and unplugging the amp from the 240VAC mains
supply is inaudible to all listeners. Therefore, there can never be any
difference between power cords.



Ahh, thats because your capacitors are already filled from the corrupted
supply :-)

--
Nick

Power Cords
 

In article , Trevor Wilson trevor@SPAMB
LOCKrageaudio.com.au writes

"Luke Siemaszko" wrote in message
...


wrote:

Hi,

How important is the quality of power cords in a high end system?
Does it really make a difference in sound?

Thanks,

Vasilis


Slightly off topic:

A pro amplifier designer of my acquaintance told me that he hated IEC
power inlets for amplifiers because he had measured up to 7V drop across
them in test.

Anyone else agree / disagree ?

**That is certainly possible, if:

* The amplifier is consuming huge amounts of power.
* The IEC connectors are of very poor quality.
* The IEC connectors are very old/worn/corroded.


So how does a kettle get on then pulling the power it takes?, and I've
never had a problem with an actual kettle connector....
--
Tony Sayer

Power Cords
 

In article , Richard Wall
wrote:
When you asked the question what answer were you looking for ? This
news group is fully of highly qualified experts who will tell you that
cables make no difference.

....or at least a number of people who have experimented with different
cables and established that they can't hear any signs that they affect the
sound unless the cables or amps have a fault of some kind.


Those who believe differently have ceased to argue.

....and avoid particpating in controlled tests because experience has shown
that those who "believe differently" are unable to substantiate their
"beliefs" when they have to rely only on the actual sounds the systems
produce.

Russ Andrews offers sale or return, claims great things for his cables
and gives reasons why he says they work, he would he sells cables as do
lots of other companies. Would I spend £800 on a mains cable I thought
made the music sound better, no! but I have bought Kimber mains and
heard an improvement.

I recall that back in the 1950s there was someone who used to advertise
'lucky charms' in the back of pulp magazines on a similar trial basis. They
seemed to remain in business...


Some will say this is either just in my mind and
that on a DBT I would not be able to tell the difference or that my
system is flawed and badly designed. Why not try a few cables and let us
know if it made any difference for you ?

I have (more than once) done so over the years. It didn't seem to make the
slightest difference. I couldn't hear any changes, and nor could anyone
else I tried them on. Maybe the problem was that I was using well designed
amplifiers with decent PSUs and cables that were adequate.

FWIW my personal reaction is that if changing the mains cable alters the
sound, I would suspect there was a serious problem with either the amp or
the cables involved.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Power Cords
 

In article , Luke Siemaszko
wrote:


A pro amplifier designer of my acquaintance told me that he hated IEC
power inlets for amplifiers because he had measured up to 7V drop across
them in test.

Anyone else agree / disagree ?

The only time I have ever come across anything like that was when the
socket contained either a fuse or a filter, and the current was high.
Otherwise I would take it as a sign of a (dangerous) fault in the socket.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Power Cords
 

Luke Siemaszko wrote:

A pro amplifier designer of my acquaintance told me that he hated IEC
power inlets for amplifiers because he had measured up to 7V drop across
them in test.

Anyone else agree / disagree ?

I disagree. Let's take a 2kW pro amp as an example. That will be drawing
peaks of close to 13A when run at full power. With a voltage drop of 7V
it will therefore be dissipating 91W. This would make such a small
volume heat up so much that you would get severe burns trying to unplug it.

Of course, you could put hundreds of amps through it to get it to drop
the claimed 7V, but that's not a realistic test for mains use.

--
Mark.
http://tranchant.plus.com/

Power Cords
 

In article ,
Nick Gorham wrote:
I use an amplifier which has no speaker relay protection systems.
Therefore, when it is unplugged, it can still deliver power to the
speakers, for as long as the main capacitor banks can supply it. The
main filter caps total 250,000uF. This means the amplifier can
deliver a handful of Watts for several seconds. Plugging and
unplugging the amp from the 240VAC mains supply is inaudible to all
listeners. Therefore, there can never be any difference between power
cords.



Ahh, thats because your capacitors are already filled from the corrupted
supply :-)

Thanks for the first good laugh of the day. ;-)

--
*A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Power Cords
 

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
So how does a kettle get on then pulling the power it takes?, and I've
never had a problem with an actual kettle connector....
--

Of course a kettle uses a different connector - hot style.

--
*Failure is not an option. It's bundled with your software.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Power Cords
 

"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...
Trevor Wilson wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

Hi,

How important is the quality of power cords in a high end system?


**Not at all.


Does it really make a difference in sound?


**Nope. I prove this regularly to people who are deluded into thinking
that it makes a difference. Follow my logic:

I use an amplifier which has no speaker relay protection systems.
Therefore, when it is unplugged, it can still deliver power to the
speakers, for as long as the main capacitor banks can supply it. The main
filter caps total 250,000uF. This means the amplifier can deliver a
handful of Watts for several seconds. Plugging and unplugging the amp
from the 240VAC mains supply is inaudible to all listeners. Therefore,
there can never be any difference between power cords.



Ahh, thats because your capacitors are already filled from the corrupted
supply :-)

--
Nick
Corrupted mains supply does not equal corrupted audio delivery - as long as
the reservoir cap/s has/ve more reserve energy joules than demanded by
programme material dissipating into load.

Power Cords
 

In article ,
Mark Tranchant wrote:
I disagree. Let's take a 2kW pro amp as an example. That will be drawing
peaks of close to 13A when run at full power.

Then an IEC connector isn't really suitable. The maximum they can handle
is 10 amps - some 6. Something like the mains version of the Speakon would
be more like it.

But most of the large PA rigs I've seen use those industrial 16 amp types.

--
*I can see your point, but I still think you're full of ****.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Power Cords
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
So how does a kettle get on then pulling the power it takes?, and I've
never had a problem with an actual kettle connector....
--

Of course a kettle uses a different connector - hot style.

--
*Failure is not an option. It's bundled with your software.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Many years ago, the old Swan kettles were fed from a push-in, chunky, round
bakelite 3-pin socket... that would get expelled if/when the fail-safe
cut-out prod activated, usually after overheating due to a lack of water.

Those kettles consumed 2.0kW to 2.8kW. DAK what those connectors were max
rated in Amps?

Power Cords
 

Jim Gregory wrote:
"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...

Trevor Wilson wrote:

wrote in message
groups.com...


Hi,

How important is the quality of power cords in a high end system?


**Not at all.



Does it really make a difference in sound?


**Nope. I prove this regularly to people who are deluded into thinking
that it makes a difference. Follow my logic:

I use an amplifier which has no speaker relay protection systems.
Therefore, when it is unplugged, it can still deliver power to the
speakers, for as long as the main capacitor banks can supply it. The main
filter caps total 250,000uF. This means the amplifier can deliver a
handful of Watts for several seconds. Plugging and unplugging the amp
from the 240VAC mains supply is inaudible to all listeners. Therefore,
there can never be any difference between power cords.



Ahh, thats because your capacitors are already filled from the corrupted
supply :-)

--
Nick

Corrupted mains supply does not equal corrupted audio delivery - as long as
the reservoir cap/s has/ve more reserve energy joules than demanded by
programme material dissipating into load.



I take it you didn't see the smilie then?

--
Nick

Power Cords
 

"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...
Jim Gregory wrote:
"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...

Trevor Wilson wrote:

wrote in message
egroups.com...


Hi,

How important is the quality of power cords in a high end system?


**Not at all.



Does it really make a difference in sound?


**Nope. I prove this regularly to people who are deluded into thinking
that it makes a difference. Follow my logic:

I use an amplifier which has no speaker relay protection systems.
Therefore, when it is unplugged, it can still deliver power to the
speakers, for as long as the main capacitor banks can supply it. The
main filter caps total 250,000uF. This means the amplifier can deliver a
handful of Watts for several seconds. Plugging and unplugging the amp
from the 240VAC mains supply is inaudible to all listeners. Therefore,
there can never be any difference between power cords.



Ahh, thats because your capacitors are already filled from the corrupted
supply :-)

--
Nick

Corrupted mains supply does not equal corrupted audio delivery - as long
as the reservoir cap/s has/ve more reserve energy joules than demanded by
programme material dissipating into load.

I take it you didn't see the smilie then?

--
Nick
Oops, sorry, now I have :-|

Power Cords
 

"Luke Siemaszko" wrote in
message


A pro amplifier designer of my acquaintance told me that
he hated IEC power inlets for amplifiers because he had
measured up to 7V drop across them in test.

Anyone else agree / disagree ?

I'm sure its happened with some combination of
inadequate/broken equipment and exceptional stress.

I've seen wall outlets cause signficant voltage drops, as
well.

The logical error is pretty obvious - few if any of us have
stopped riding in cars because one had an accident one day
not too long ago.

Another factor to consider - power amp designers tend to
spend a lot of time watching power amps perform an unnatural
act - deliver full power for an extended period of time. In
actual use, playing music that is unclipped, power amps on
the average draw only a fraction of their full power.

Most demands for full power while playing music are so short
that they have relatively small effects on the power that is
drawn from the power line. I

OW just because a power amp delivers max power for a loud
passage does not mean that maximum power was drawn from the
power line. Most of those transient needs are satisfied by
the power supply capacitors, not the power plug.

Power Cords
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
So how does a kettle get on then pulling the power it takes?, and
I've
never had a problem with an actual kettle connector....
--

Of course a kettle uses a different connector - hot style.

--
Come on DP - the only difference with hot stayle is the grove on the
bottom of the moulding.

If 7V was being dropped across a connector surely it would get
somewhat hot - and stop calling me Surely.


--
Woody

harrogate2 at ntlworld dot com

Power Cords
 

tony sayer wrote:
In article , Trevor Wilson trevor@SPAMB
LOCKrageaudio.com.au writes

"Luke Siemaszko" wrote in message
...


wrote:


Hi,

How important is the quality of power cords in a high end system?
Does it really make a difference in sound?

Thanks,

Vasilis


Slightly off topic:

A pro amplifier designer of my acquaintance told me that he hated IEC
power inlets for amplifiers because he had measured up to 7V drop across
them in test.

Anyone else agree / disagree ?

**That is certainly possible, if:

* The amplifier is consuming huge amounts of power.
* The IEC connectors are of very poor quality.
* The IEC connectors are very old/worn/corroded.



So how does a kettle get on then pulling the power it takes?, and I've
never had a problem with an actual kettle connector....

Kettle draws loads of power
some is wasted in voltage drop over crap connector
connector gets slightly warm
you don't notice
life continues

there aren't (as far as I know) hordes of kettle enthusiats eager to
squeeze every last drop of performance from their kettles. Amplfifiers,
thoough, operate in a different environemnt to kettles.....

Power Cords
 

Trevor Wilson wrote:
I use an amplifier which has no speaker relay protection systems. Therefore,
when it is unplugged, it can still deliver power to the speakers, for as
long as the main capacitor banks can supply it. The main filter caps total
250,000uF. This means the amplifier can deliver a handful of Watts for
several seconds. Plugging and unplugging the amp from the 240VAC mains
supply is inaudible to all listeners. Therefore, there can never be any
difference between power cords.

Is there not another angle to look at (says he throwing fuel on the
cynical fire...) and that is when the mains power supply is noisey.
While I can appreciate a mains cable ain't going to make any difference
with a clean power supply, to what extent do these noise reducing mains
cables with their ferrite rings and platted cables reduce an
interference that may be inherent in the supply? Of course an amp that
removes all such interference before the amp power lines will not show
any difference, but will a hifi component with a less than optimally
design power supply benefit from a "noise reducing" cable?

Power Cords
 

"David Lodge" wrote in message
ps.com...
Trevor Wilson wrote:
I use an amplifier which has no speaker relay protection systems.
Therefore,
when it is unplugged, it can still deliver power to the speakers, for as
long as the main capacitor banks can supply it. The main filter caps
total
250,000uF. This means the amplifier can deliver a handful of Watts for
several seconds. Plugging and unplugging the amp from the 240VAC mains
supply is inaudible to all listeners. Therefore, there can never be any
difference between power cords.

Is there not another angle to look at (says he throwing fuel on the
cynical fire...) and that is when the mains power supply is noisey.

**Sure. However, a power cord is not even going to appraoch the capabilities
of a decent power supply, in removing mains bourne crap.

While I can appreciate a mains cable ain't going to make any difference
with a clean power supply, to what extent do these noise reducing mains
cables with their ferrite rings and platted cables reduce an
interference that may be inherent in the supply?

**All of which can easily be placed inside the amplifier, if there is a
problem. Moving this hardware to the outside is wasteful, inefficient and
costly.

Of course an amp that
removes all such interference before the amp power lines will not show
any difference, but will a hifi component with a less than optimally
design power supply benefit from a "noise reducing" cable?

**Perhaps. Ironically, cheap, crappy amplifiers (i.e.: The ones which suffer
from mains borne noise) are not likely to be used with expensive power
cords.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Power Cords
 

In article ,
Luke Siemaszko wrote:
So how does a kettle get on then pulling the power it takes?, and I've
never had a problem with an actual kettle connector....

Kettle draws loads of power
some is wasted in voltage drop over crap connector
connector gets slightly warm
you don't notice
life continues

there aren't (as far as I know) hordes of kettle enthusiats eager to
squeeze every last drop of performance from their kettles. Amplfifiers,
thoough, operate in a different environemnt to kettles.....

A kettle draws continuous power at around 2 kW. Domestic amps don't draw
anywhere near at *peak* 2kW. That's 2000 watts. And then they convert that
AC to DC and use large reservoir capacitors. Of course you might have a
2000 watt amplifier but I somehow doubt it.

--
*Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Power Cords
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Luke Siemaszko wrote:
So how does a kettle get on then pulling the power it takes?, and I've
never had a problem with an actual kettle connector....

Kettle draws loads of power
some is wasted in voltage drop over crap connector
connector gets slightly warm
you don't notice
life continues

there aren't (as far as I know) hordes of kettle enthusiats eager to
squeeze every last drop of performance from their kettles. Amplfifiers,
thoough, operate in a different environemnt to kettles.....

A kettle draws continuous power at around 2 kW. Domestic amps don't draw
anywhere near at *peak* 2kW. That's 2000 watts. And then they convert that
AC to DC and use large reservoir capacitors. Of course you might have a
2000 watt amplifier but I somehow doubt it.

**I've worked on a few, but they are few and far between. Significantly,
most alleged Class A amps aren't, simply because US mains supply systems are
hopeless. Anything more than a kW from a US power point is pretty much
hopeful thinking. Krell learned this lesson after their early amps (KSA100,
KMA200, et al) weren't able to deliver the goods, due to typical US power
points. They sensibly switched to Class A/B (albeit with lots of bias
current), so the things could actually work properly in their country of
origin.



--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Power Cords
 

In article om, David
Lodge wrote:


Is there not another angle to look at (says he throwing fuel on the
cynical fire...) and that is when the mains power supply is noisey.

This is why amplifier designers tend to pay attention to ensuring the amp
has a decent PSU, and has some level of inherent noise rejection. They also
live in the real world. Indeed, the mains supply in many factories or labs
can be even worse than domestic mains in terms of the interference added to
the basic mains waveforms.

While I can appreciate a mains cable ain't going to make any difference
with a clean power supply, to what extent do these noise reducing mains
cables with their ferrite rings and platted cables reduce an
interference that may be inherent in the supply?

Depends. Those that have 'ferrite coatings' would be likely to have almost
no effect on anything except the seller's bank balance. Correct use of
rings, etc, may help in some cases, but this isn't "mains cables" any more.
We are moving into the different topic of "mains filters".


Of course an amp that removes all such interference before the amp power
lines will not show any difference, but will a hifi component with a
less than optimally design power supply benefit from a "noise reducing"
cable?

If the amp and its PSU let through interference, then a filter can help.

FWIW my experience is that some items do produce audible 'clicks' at times
which are mains injected. Reason follows from the above: PSU and rail
rejection not adequate. This can be dealt with by using a mains filter, not
an expensive mains cable. Alternatively, change the item for something else
that has a better PSU and/or amp stages with better rail rejection.

Above said, my experience is also that most items I've used don't have this
problem - or at least it became rarer some decades ago as the designs and
components improved.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
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Power Cords
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Luke Siemaszko wrote:
So how does a kettle get on then pulling the power it takes?, and I've
never had a problem with an actual kettle connector....

Kettle draws loads of power
some is wasted in voltage drop over crap connector
connector gets slightly warm
you don't notice
life continues

there aren't (as far as I know) hordes of kettle enthusiats eager to
squeeze every last drop of performance from their kettles. Amplfifiers,
thoough, operate in a different environemnt to kettles.....

A kettle draws continuous power at around 2 kW. Domestic amps don't draw
anywhere near at *peak* 2kW. That's 2000 watts. And then they convert that
AC to DC and use large reservoir capacitors. Of course you might have a
2000 watt amplifier but I somehow doubt it.

--
*Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Don't doubt. Just a quote from my ss NRG manual Model A201S:
Power consumption: Maximum for each respective load
Idle (No Load) 1.3kW
8 Ohm 1.3kW
4 Ohm 1.65kW
2 Ohm 3.3kW
1 Ohm 6.4kW
The actual values will typically be lower with 'normal' music, though I
could have been a deaf headbanger with a pair of 1 ohm Apogee Scintilla ;-)
I'm sure some of the larger Krells spec much the same. Its fun/agonizing
watching the digits on the consumer unit whizz around on something like the
S/Saens Organ symphony. Thats exactly why the supply cable is hard wired
rather than trusting to an iec connector.

-=Mike=-

Power Cords
 

In article ,
Mike Gilmour wrote:
Of course you might have a
2000 watt amplifier but I somehow doubt it.

Don't doubt. Just a quote from my ss NRG manual Model A201S: Power
consumption: Maximum for each respective load
Idle (No Load) 1.3kW
8 Ohm
1.3kW
4 Ohm 1.65kW
2 Ohm 3.3kW
1 Ohm 6.4kW


The actual values will typically be lower with 'normal' music, though I
could have been a deaf headbanger with a pair of 1 ohm Apogee Scintilla
;-) I'm sure some of the larger Krells spec much the same. Its
fun/agonizing watching the digits on the consumer unit whizz around on
something like the S/Saens Organ symphony. Thats exactly why the supply
cable is hard wired rather than trusting to an iec connector.

At 26 amps you're into needing a 32 amp radial wired in 4mm.

Is it really worth it? ;-)

--
*If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Power Cords
 

Jim Lesurf wrote:
FWIW my experience is that some items do produce audible 'clicks' at times
which are mains injected. Reason follows from the above: PSU and rail
rejection not adequate. This can be dealt with by using a mains filter, not
an expensive mains cable. Alternatively, change the item for something else
that has a better PSU and/or amp stages with better rail rejection.

That all make sense (both what I quoted above and what I didn't), so is
it fair to say:
- mains filtering devices can provide a degree of noise reduction, but
whether you'll hear a difference or benefit from it depends on the
level of noise in the first place, and the extent to which your amp (or
source component) filters out the noise anyway
- Good main cables themselves are likely to provide a benefit only if
they replace a cable which is difficient in delivering the required
power. Once its sufficient (as I suspect most standard cables are),
there's no additional benefit to be gained by replacing them with
"better" cables.

Power Cords
 

"Luke Siemaszko" wrote in
message

tony sayer wrote:


So how does a kettle get on then pulling the power it
takes?, and I've never had a problem with an actual
kettle connector....

Ditto for space heaters, etc.

Kettle draws loads of power

Most kettles are relatively low-powered compared to the
appliances that are heavy-hitters.

some is wasted in voltage drop over crap connector
connector gets slightly warm
you don't notice
life continues

there aren't (as far as I know) hordes of kettle
enthusiats eager to squeeze every last drop of
performance from their kettles.

In the US self-heated kettles are far from the largest
single users of power. Electric space heaters are near or at
the top.


Amplfifiers, thoough, operate in a different environemnt
to kettles.....

Yes, resistive loads just sit there and suck power at a high
rate, while the average drain from an audio power amp is
pretty low.

Power Cords
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message

In article
om,
David Lodge wrote:


Is there not another angle to look at (says he throwing
fuel on the cynical fire...) and that is when the mains
power supply is noisey.

This is why amplifier designers tend to pay attention to
ensuring the amp has a decent PSU, and has some level of
inherent noise rejection. They also live in the real
world. Indeed, the mains supply in many factories or labs
can be even worse than domestic mains in terms of the
interference added to the basic mains waveforms.

While I can appreciate a mains cable ain't going to make
any difference with a clean power supply, to what extent
do these noise reducing mains cables with their ferrite
rings and platted cables reduce an interference that may
be inherent in the supply?

The biggest EMI filter in most power supplies is the power
transformer. If its optimized for efficiency at 60 Hz, its
likely to be a good rejector of higher frequencies.

Power Cords
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Mike Gilmour wrote:
Of course you might have a
2000 watt amplifier but I somehow doubt it.

Don't doubt. Just a quote from my ss NRG manual Model A201S: Power
consumption: Maximum for each respective load
Idle (No Load) 1.3kW
8 Ohm
1.3kW
4 Ohm 1.65kW
2 Ohm 3.3kW
1 Ohm 6.4kW


The actual values will typically be lower with 'normal' music, though I
could have been a deaf headbanger with a pair of 1 ohm Apogee Scintilla
;-) I'm sure some of the larger Krells spec much the same. Its
fun/agonizing watching the digits on the consumer unit whizz around on
something like the S/Saens Organ symphony. Thats exactly why the supply
cable is hard wired rather than trusting to an iec connector.

At 26 amps you're into needing a 32 amp radial wired in 4mm.

Is it really worth it? ;-)

Oh yes... :-))


--
*If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.