An open letter to Cambridge Audio
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Forums:

At the beginning of 2005 you opened a forums section on your website. This
was, in many respects, a bold move for a company - allowing people to share
information and experiences about their Cambridge Audio products; however,
this would also have provided information about customer preferences and
wishes.

As of the 24th of October, Cambridge Audio have removed access to the forums
- the primary mechanism people had of communicating with the company
(e-mail doesn't appear to work now, either).


Azur 640H Music Server:

Shortly after the opening of the forums, details of the Azur 640H music
server were released to the press and to the public. At the time the 640H
was going to be a fairly revolutionary product - a music server at a
reasonable price (though not bargain-basement) produced by an audio company
with a good reputation within their market sector. Ok, there's the Acoustic
Solutions SP150 (too cheap!) or the Linn Tunboks (too expensive for me!);
for those people who have many CD's and would like a music server but don't
want a PC solution, the 640H looks ideal.

However, since the original press release there have been several delays in
bringing the 640H to market. This is understandable - to a degree - as the
640H is a relatively complex product. However, delays have made the
original specification of the device look somewhat stingy. Bear in mind
that the hard disk server is competing with PC-based products, not just
hi-fi components - ten months is a long time.

Also, as time has passed, additional details of the 640H have been released,
with the latest being the availability of the user manual on the web.

Despite many postings by myself and others for more detailed information
regarding the 640H, only a handful of these were ever replied to, and of
those most were given unsatisfactory answers.

Many users of the forums, myself included, have been patient in trying to
get details about the Azur 640H and have used the forums to make
suggestions back to Cambridge Audio about product improvements. Why would
we bother to do this? Because we (your potential customers) want the 640H
to be a successful, competent product - we want to buy the 640H. I've had a
few hard disk servers previously and none have lived up to my expectations
- I want the 640H to be a good product.

However, after looking at the specification of the 640H, asking many
questions on the forums (only to have them ignored), and now having the
forums removed from us, it appears that the only way we (your paying
customers) can communicate back to you is via other means.

So - my overview of the 640H using the specifications online as a guide:

Spec:

* 160GB hard disk
- this is not big enough; for little extra cost this could be increased
significantly.

* Wolfson WM8740 DAC
- nice; this is the same component as in the 640C; but you've put the DAC
inside a PC, which is not a hospitable environment for analogue; is the DAC
shielded?

* supports wireless connectivity (when used with wireless adaptors)
- supports fibre connectivity (when used with fibre adaptors) too, I
guess?

* Internet radio
- nice

* On-screen graphical user interface
- this could be good; is the on-screen GUI skinnable? Trivial, maybe, but
one man's user interface is another man's dogs dinner...

* In-built CD-R/CD-RW
- this, I have a problem with; apparently:
1) the 640H '...incorporates the high-quality CD player from the Azur
640C...'
2) the 640C has a 'custom Cambridge Audio transport'
3) but the 640H has a built-in CD-R/CD-RW?
Yes - the drive on the 640H is a standard PC CD transport - not the
custom audio-grade transport from the 640C; to imply that the 640H is a
640C but with a hard disk is misleading beyond belief.

Playback Formats Supported:

* Uncompressed PCM
- nice; though I'd need about 1TB to put all 1400+ of my CD's on there, so
I guess I'm looking at using some sort of compression.

* Windows Media Audio
* MP3
* AAC (MP4)
* .wav .snd .mpa .mp2 .mp3 and many other common music files also supported
- '...many other common music files...'; from the manual, .au and .aif are
also supported; so no Ogg Vorbis - a '...completely open, patent-free,
professional audio encoding and streaming technology' - and yet we're meant
to believe that the 640H is a hi-fi component?

....and from the users manual...

Processor: VIA C3 1GHz
- Nice CPU, good performance (great for Ogg Vorbis), low heat output.
However, I've asked before (as it's quite important for a hi-fi component)
is this fanless? Sure, you're using fanless power supplies, but there's no
indication anywhere that you're using a fanless VIA C3.


So - how could the 640H be made into a better product? Personally, and in
order of preference:

1) isolate the DAC - don't care how, just don't want all that nasty PC
noise in my analogue
2) compile up the Ogg codec - http://www.vorbis.com/ is a good place to
start
3) use a bigger hard disk - 300GB, maybe?
4) change the CD transport
5) build wireless in

As far as I'm aware, in the time it's taken me to write this letter you
haven't released the 640H - there is still time to make these changes. For
the sake of the people who have taken the time to use the Cambridge Audio
forums and let you know what we, your customers, actually want in a hi-fi
music server, make this a great product.

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 01:40:09 +0100, Dave Giles wrote:

1) isolate the DAC - don't care how, just don't want all that nasty PC
noise in my analogue

What makes you think that this is a problem?

2) compile up the Ogg codec - http://www.vorbis.com/ is a good place to
start

Fair enough.

3) use a bigger hard disk - 300GB, maybe?

Fair enough.

4) change the CD transport

What possible difference would that make?

5) build wireless in

What, you want *more* internal noise?

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

1) isolate the DAC - don't care how, just don't want all that nasty PC
noise in my analogue

What makes you think that this is a problem?


I'm not an audio engineer (this is probably apparent), but wouldn't placing
the DAC in the same box as what is essentially a PC cause interference
problems if there wasn't a reasonable amount of shielding on the DAC?

4) change the CD transport

What possible difference would that make?


No difference to the actual product as regards electrical noise, or whatever
(though if there is, that wasn't what I was getting at). My only problem
with the transport is that CA appear to be pushing the 640H as a 640C with
a hard disk ('...incorporates the high-quality CD player from the Azur
640C...' - read that as you will), when it seems that the only similarity
between the two players is (essentially) the DAC. A number of postings on
the CA forums indicated that some people did think that this was,
basically, a replacement for the 640C.

5) build wireless in

What, you want *more* internal noise?


Ok - I meant build wireless into the basic spec of the product; I envisaged
the aerial on the outside. Although would a transmitter in close proximity
transmitting at 2.4GHz have an effect on an audio signal?

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:27:49 +0100, Dave Giles wrote:

1) isolate the DAC - don't care how, just don't want all that nasty PC
noise in my analogue

What makes you think that this is a problem?

I'm not an audio engineer (this is probably apparent), but wouldn't placing
the DAC in the same box as what is essentially a PC cause interference
problems if there wasn't a reasonable amount of shielding on the DAC?

Given that you can buy 24/96 sound cards for your PC which demonstrate
more than 100dB dynamic range, that wouldn't seem to be much of an
issue for 16/44 CD.

4) change the CD transport

What possible difference would that make?

No difference to the actual product as regards electrical noise, or whatever
(though if there is, that wasn't what I was getting at). My only problem
with the transport is that CA appear to be pushing the 640H as a 640C with
a hard disk ('...incorporates the high-quality CD player from the Azur
640C...' - read that as you will), when it seems that the only similarity
between the two players is (essentially) the DAC. A number of postings on
the CA forums indicated that some people did think that this was,
basically, a replacement for the 640C.

But why do you think that the 640C actually does have a different
transport mechanism from the 640H?

Bear in mind that the ten grand Meridian 800 series uses a standard 20
quid CD-ROM drive...........

5) build wireless in

What, you want *more* internal noise?

Ok - I meant build wireless into the basic spec of the product; I envisaged
the aerial on the outside. Although would a transmitter in close proximity
transmitting at 2.4GHz have an effect on an audio signal?

It's a powerful RF source - who knows what intermodulations might
occur? And what's the point, in a domestic installation?
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:27:49 +0100, Dave Giles wrote:


1) isolate the DAC - don't care how, just don't want all that nasty PC
noise in my analogue

What makes you think that this is a problem?


I'm not an audio engineer (this is probably apparent), but wouldn't placing
the DAC in the same box as what is essentially a PC cause interference
problems if there wasn't a reasonable amount of shielding on the DAC?


Given that you can buy 24/96 sound cards for your PC which demonstrate
more than 100dB dynamic range, that wouldn't seem to be much of an
issue for 16/44 CD.


4) change the CD transport

What possible difference would that make?


No difference to the actual product as regards electrical noise, or whatever
(though if there is, that wasn't what I was getting at). My only problem
with the transport is that CA appear to be pushing the 640H as a 640C with
a hard disk ('...incorporates the high-quality CD player from the Azur
640C...' - read that as you will), when it seems that the only similarity
between the two players is (essentially) the DAC. A number of postings on
the CA forums indicated that some people did think that this was,
basically, a replacement for the 640C.


But why do you think that the 640C actually does have a different
transport mechanism from the 640H?

Bear in mind that the ten grand Meridian 800 series uses a standard 20
quid CD-ROM drive...........


It's a CD writer, if that makes any difference.


5) build wireless in

What, you want *more* internal noise?


Ok - I meant build wireless into the basic spec of the product; I envisaged
the aerial on the outside. Although would a transmitter in close proximity
transmitting at 2.4GHz have an effect on an audio signal?


It's a powerful RF source - who knows what intermodulations might
occur? And what's the point, in a domestic installation?

So that you can serve music from one device to another without wires -
pretty handy I would have thought.

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

Given that you can buy 24/96 sound cards for your PC which demonstrate
more than 100dB dynamic range, that wouldn't seem to be much of an
issue for 16/44 CD.


Maybe those sound cards are pretty well shielded - I don't know. I know that
the Linn Tunboks uses a conventional PCI sound card (albeit a Linn
soundcard, as conventional as that makes it), so I appreciate that a PC
which doesn't interfere with it's analogue output isn't impossible.
However, my point is that there have been no assurances from Cambridge
Audio that this is the case.

4) change the CD transport

What possible difference would that make?

No difference to the actual product as regards electrical noise, or
whatever (though if there is, that wasn't what I was getting at). My only
problem with the transport is that CA appear to be pushing the 640H as a
640C with a hard disk ('...incorporates the high-quality CD player from
the Azur 640C...' - read that as you will), when it seems that the only
similarity between the two players is (essentially) the DAC. A number of
postings on the CA forums indicated that some people did think that this
was, basically, a replacement for the 640C.

But why do you think that the 640C actually does have a different
transport mechanism from the 640H?

Bear in mind that the ten grand Meridian 800 series uses a standard 20
quid CD-ROM drive...........


The drives are cosmetically different - the drive drawer on the 640H is
deeper than that of the 640C. Given that the Azur range has a distinctive
style, to deviate from this style implies that there is some other
restriction in place, ie, it's a different drive. Besides, the 640H has a
VIA mobo installed - the drive connecting to this will be a regular
IDE-interfaced jobbie (assuming CA haven't re-written the spec for a CD-ROM
interface and got VIA to implement it), which the transport in the 640C
isn't.

I suspect that the CD-ROM drive used by Meridian may have been a bit more
than a stock £20 special. However, Meridian did also re-write the CD-ROM
controller software (although the interface remains the same) to get better
control of the spin speeds of the drive. Maybe (just maybe) this is what
Cambridge Audio have done - but there's certainly no evidence of it (and
they're not saying). So what we've got is a CD-RW drive which spins right
up to 52x - or whatever - making it useless as a regular CD player as it'd
be too noisy, and certainly not comparable with the 640C as a straight CD
player.

5) build wireless in

What, you want *more* internal noise?

Ok - I meant build wireless into the basic spec of the product; I
envisaged the aerial on the outside. Although would a transmitter in close
proximity transmitting at 2.4GHz have an effect on an audio signal?

It's a powerful RF source - who knows what intermodulations might
occur? And what's the point, in a domestic installation?

Is there a reason for not using wireless in a domestic installation?

Granted, these are criticisms of a product which is yet to be released; the
point of this post was to raise issues (both actual and potential) with the
640H (and to make a point about their removal of their forums).

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 22:25:50 +0100, Dave Giles wrote:

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

Given that you can buy 24/96 sound cards for your PC which demonstrate
more than 100dB dynamic range, that wouldn't seem to be much of an
issue for 16/44 CD.

Maybe those sound cards are pretty well shielded - I don't know. I know that
the Linn Tunboks uses a conventional PCI sound card (albeit a Linn
soundcard, as conventional as that makes it), so I appreciate that a PC
which doesn't interfere with it's analogue output isn't impossible.
However, my point is that there have been no assurances from Cambridge
Audio that this is the case.

Can't recall 'assurances' from any manufacturer that their DAC is
shielded - it's just basic engineering.

4) change the CD transport

What possible difference would that make?

No difference to the actual product as regards electrical noise, or
whatever (though if there is, that wasn't what I was getting at). My only
problem with the transport is that CA appear to be pushing the 640H as a
640C with a hard disk ('...incorporates the high-quality CD player from
the Azur 640C...' - read that as you will), when it seems that the only
similarity between the two players is (essentially) the DAC. A number of
postings on the CA forums indicated that some people did think that this
was, basically, a replacement for the 640C.

But why do you think that the 640C actually does have a different
transport mechanism from the 640H?

Bear in mind that the ten grand Meridian 800 series uses a standard 20
quid CD-ROM drive...........

The drives are cosmetically different - the drive drawer on the 640H is
deeper than that of the 640C. Given that the Azur range has a distinctive
style, to deviate from this style implies that there is some other
restriction in place, ie, it's a different drive.

That's just the loader, not the actual transport. In many cases,
they're separately available.

Besides, the 640H has a
VIA mobo installed - the drive connecting to this will be a regular
IDE-interfaced jobbie (assuming CA haven't re-written the spec for a CD-ROM
interface and got VIA to implement it), which the transport in the 640C
isn't.

I suspect that the CD-ROM drive used by Meridian may have been a bit more
than a stock £20 special.

Your suspicion is wrong. Bear in mind that a stock CD-ROM drive can
read data perfectly at 40x, it should be obvious that nothing more is
needed for 1x CD replay.

However, Meridian did also re-write the CD-ROM
controller software (although the interface remains the same) to get better
control of the spin speeds of the drive. Maybe (just maybe) this is what
Cambridge Audio have done - but there's certainly no evidence of it (and
they're not saying). So what we've got is a CD-RW drive which spins right
up to 52x - or whatever - making it useless as a regular CD player as it'd
be too noisy, and certainly not comparable with the 640C as a straight CD
player.

You have absolutely *zero* reason for such a claim, since you haven't
actually seen the thing in operation - and nor has anyone else, of
course.

5) build wireless in

What, you want *more* internal noise?

Ok - I meant build wireless into the basic spec of the product; I
envisaged the aerial on the outside. Although would a transmitter in close
proximity transmitting at 2.4GHz have an effect on an audio signal?

It's a powerful RF source - who knows what intermodulations might
occur? And what's the point, in a domestic installation?

Is there a reason for not using wireless in a domestic installation?

Yes - wiring is easy. Why add complication?

Granted, these are criticisms of a product which is yet to be released; the
point of this post was to raise issues (both actual and potential) with the
640H (and to make a point about their removal of their forums).

You have yet to show that there *are* any real issues.

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

"Dave Giles" wrote in message

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

Given that you can buy 24/96 sound cards for your PC
which demonstrate more than 100dB dynamic range, that
wouldn't seem to be much of an issue for 16/44 CD.


Maybe those sound cards are pretty well shielded - I
don't know.

There's several ironies here. One of them is that Stweart is
undestating the reality of quality audio interfaces. The
best have something like 122 dB dynamic range, for less than
$200 there are several with 110 dB dynamic range, and for
$30 there is at least one with about 92 dB dynamic range.

Your next surprise may be the fact that none of these cards
have any visible extra shielding.

I know that the Linn Tunboks uses a
conventional PCI sound card (albeit a Linn soundcard, as
conventional as that makes it), so I appreciate that a PC
which doesn't interfere with it's analogue output isn't
impossible.

Not only isn't it impossible, its likely.

However, my point is that there have been no
assurances from Cambridge Audio that this is the case.

Audiophiles have this mistaken idea that somehow audio gear
has a pristine EMI situation under the covers. Fact is as
soon as the first TTL signal creeps into the box, it's all
downhill after there. Modern CD and DVD players have all of
the same kinds of noise generating circuitry as a PC, right
down to the switchmode power supply. In the US the noise
laws are the same for home CD players and home PCs, because
they are actually so similar from a electromagnetic noise
viewpoint.

Dave Giles wrote:
An open letter to Cambridge Audio
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Forums:

At the beginning of 2005 you opened a forums section on your website. This
was, in many respects, a bold move for a company - allowing people to share
information and experiences about their Cambridge Audio products; however,
this would also have provided information about customer preferences and
wishes.

As of the 24th of October, Cambridge Audio have removed access to the forums
- the primary mechanism people had of communicating with the company
(e-mail doesn't appear to work now, either).


Azur 640H Music Server:

Shortly after the opening of the forums, details of the Azur 640H music
server were released to the press and to the public. At the time the 640H
was going to be a fairly revolutionary product - a music server at a
reasonable price (though not bargain-basement) produced by an audio company
with a good reputation within their market sector. Ok, there's the Acoustic
Solutions SP150 (too cheap!) or the Linn Tunboks (too expensive for me!);
for those people who have many CD's and would like a music server but don't
want a PC solution, the 640H looks ideal.

I was an early lurker ...


However, since the original press release there have been several delays in
bringing the 640H to market. This is understandable - to a degree - as the
640H is a relatively complex product. However, delays have made the
original specification of the device look somewhat stingy. Bear in mind
that the hard disk server is competing with PC-based products, not just
hi-fi components - ten months is a long time.

Also, as time has passed, additional details of the 640H have been released,
with the latest being the availability of the user manual on the web.

Despite many postings by myself and others for more detailed information
regarding the 640H, only a handful of these were ever replied to, and of
those most were given unsatisfactory answers.


Yep, agreed.

Many users of the forums, myself included, have been patient in trying to
get details about the Azur 640H and have used the forums to make
suggestions back to Cambridge Audio about product improvements. Why would
we bother to do this? Because we (your potential customers) want the 640H
to be a successful, competent product - we want to buy the 640H. I've had a
few hard disk servers previously and none have lived up to my expectations
- I want the 640H to be a good product.

However, after looking at the specification of the 640H, asking many
questions on the forums (only to have them ignored), and now having the
forums removed from us, it appears that the only way we (your paying
customers) can communicate back to you is via other means.

So - my overview of the 640H using the specifications online as a guide:

Spec:

* 160GB hard disk
- this is not big enough; for little extra cost this could be increased
significantly.


OK

* Wolfson WM8740 DAC
- nice; this is the same component as in the 640C; but you've put the DAC
inside a PC, which is not a hospitable environment for analogue; is the DAC
shielded?


I'd have thought they use quite extensive shielding - you're right
though, they don't make much play of it and I seem to remember an
internal picture that revealed few physical barriers between bits of the
machine

* supports wireless connectivity (when used with wireless adaptors)

I thought it did ...?

- supports fibre connectivity (when used with fibre adaptors) too, I
guess?

* Internet radio
- nice

* On-screen graphical user interface
- this could be good; is the on-screen GUI skinnable? Trivial, maybe, but
one man's user interface is another man's dogs dinner...

* In-built CD-R/CD-RW
- this, I have a problem with; apparently:
1) the 640H '...incorporates the high-quality CD player from the Azur
640C...'
2) the 640C has a 'custom Cambridge Audio transport'
3) but the 640H has a built-in CD-R/CD-RW?
Yes - the drive on the 640H is a standard PC CD transport - not the
custom audio-grade transport from the 640C; to imply that the 640H is a
640C but with a hard disk is misleading beyond belief.


I'm not sure about the audio consequences of the drive - I do actually
like the idea of a 'swappable' (maybe) drive

Playback Formats Supported:

* Uncompressed PCM
- nice; though I'd need about 1TB to put all 1400+ of my CD's on there, so
I guess I'm looking at using some sort of compression.

* Windows Media Audio
* MP3
* AAC (MP4)
* .wav .snd .mpa .mp2 .mp3 and many other common music files also supported
- '...many other common music files...'; from the manual, .au and .aif are
also supported; so no Ogg Vorbis - a '...completely open, patent-free,
professional audio encoding and streaming technology' - and yet we're meant
to believe that the 640H is a hi-fi component?


Not a problem for me in that I don't compress copy 'keepers', but point
taken.

...and from the users manual...

Processor: VIA C3 1GHz
- Nice CPU, good performance (great for Ogg Vorbis), low heat output.
However, I've asked before (as it's quite important for a hi-fi component)
is this fanless? Sure, you're using fanless power supplies, but there's no
indication anywhere that you're using a fanless VIA C3.


It has no fans I seem to remember reading

So - how could the 640H be made into a better product? Personally, and in
order of preference:

1) isolate the DAC - don't care how, just don't want all that nasty PC
noise in my analogue
2) compile up the Ogg codec - http://www.vorbis.com/ is a good place to
start
3) use a bigger hard disk - 300GB, maybe?
4) change the CD transport
5) build wireless in

fair enough questions to ask.


As far as I'm aware, in the time it's taken me to write this letter you
haven't released the 640H - there is still time to make these changes. For
the sake of the people who have taken the time to use the Cambridge Audio
forums and let you know what we, your customers, actually want in a hi-fi
music server, make this a great product.


It's looking overpriced - 500UKP - and Cambridge haven't earned a good
reputation for build quality. I have one of these:

http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/p...roduct_ID/2292

As I say, compression isn't a huge thing for me, and HDs can simply slot
in, like a cassette. It's well built and does the job. I'd pay for the
PC connectivity, silence and general verstaility, but for now a Mac
Mini, decent sound card and cheap screen seems more attractive.

I reckon the 640H will settle at around 300UKP, and at that price and
favourable reviews I could be persuaded.

Rob

Rob wrote:
snip

* supports wireless connectivity (when used with wireless adaptors)

I thought it did ...?

It does, but you need to get a WiFi bridge. Given that WiFi cards (for a
consumer) are under £15, I wouldn't have thought it would add too much to
the price for what would be quite a good selling point; as it is, they're
clutching at the coat-tails of WiFi by saying that they support it...

Processor: VIA C3 1GHz
- Nice CPU, good performance (great for Ogg Vorbis), low heat output.
However, I've asked before (as it's quite important for a hi-fi
component) is this fanless? Sure, you're using fanless power supplies,
but there's no indication anywhere that you're using a fanless VIA C3.


It has no fans I seem to remember reading

That's interesting; I read that the power supplies were fanless but I
couldn't find where it gave any details about the CPU. Have you got a
link/reference to hand?


It's looking overpriced - 500UKP - and Cambridge haven't earned a good
reputation for build quality. I have one of these:

http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/p...roduct_ID/2292


That looks pretty neat - I'll have a read up on that one... Thanks!

As I say, compression isn't a huge thing for me, and HDs can simply slot
in, like a cassette. It's well built and does the job. I'd pay for the
PC connectivity, silence and general verstaility, but for now a Mac
Mini, decent sound card and cheap screen seems more attractive.

I reckon the 640H will settle at around 300UKP, and at that price and
favourable reviews I could be persuaded.


I'd buy one for £300, faults 'n' all... )