Yes I agree that Mozart and others have INFLUENCED most other artists (and
of course, Mozart was influenced by those before him, right back to the
first rhythmic bang on a log). I didn't explain myself very well though -
what I meant by "touched" was touched emotionally. There are very many
technically superb musicians who somehow can never get the emotion across
(my first guitar teacher was one), and others who somehow manage to ooze
emotion without great technical skill (I've often heard that said about
Hendrix for example).

I once watched an argument on a band specific newsgroup, comparing one group
with another of the same style. One guy was arguing that because the written
music from one band was "more complex and closer to textbook standards", it
was "better". Technically better, maybe, but who's to say emotionally
better? Take the "write music correctly" argument to the extreme and you end
up with formula music, and zero innovation.

I do think also there's a difference if we're discussing "pop" music vs.
"serious" music, or discussing "classical" vs. "modern" music. I think from
your description that your understanding of pop is the same as mine (banal,
short attention span, money before art etc etc etc), but my music is
"modern" and yours is "classical". If I tell you what I like, I suspect
we'll open up a whole new debate, but suffice to say that even though it's
not Mozart, it is serious, does have musical skill applied to it, is
innovative, is not fashion driven, and will stand the test of time (already
has within the time span available to it).

It's not really fair to compare centuries of enjoyment with only years,
because some innovators have only been around for a short time - they can't
help when they were born - and who knows what Mozart may have written if
he'd been born now.

Getting back to what I originally took exception to, to say something is
**** is exactly the kind of lack of willingness to try all things you're
talking about I think. It's just dismissive. Plus of course the track in
question wasn't "pop" in the sense you describe. It would get absolutely
nowhere in the charts, and would be hated by most "pop fans" I know.

Of course, many would argue that the "real musical expertise" applied to pop
music is in removing all the "pretentious twiddles" people claim not to like
(apparently present in the music you like AND in the music I like),
structuring it so it fits into a 3 minute slot, and making it acceptable and
less "boring" for the masses. I wouldn't, but many would

Mark

"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
om...
In article , Mark R Penn wrote:
The only bit I don't agree with is that people like Astley or whatever
because they've not listened to "proper" music. Do you really believe
that
anyone who dislikes Mozart is "wrong" and should educate themselves? I
like
certain types of music with a passion, but wouldn't dream of suggesting
that
everyone else should or is somehow uneducated because they don't.

Nobody's "wrong" to listen to shallow, trite, banal, repetitive,
commercially
orientated rubbish to which practically no real musical expertise has been
applied, if it pleases them. However, a great many people are never
exposed to
anything else, and many people are creatures of habit, or slaves to
fashion, or
for one reason or another reluctant to try anything different from what
they
are familiar with. I can't help thinking that most people easily have the
mental capacity to understand music with a bit more cerebral content than
a
typical pop song if only they'd give it a try, and would probably find it
ultimately more rewarding too. There must be a reason why the likes of
Bach,
Beethoven, Mozart etc are still pleasing people, even moving them to tears
sometimes, centuries after they've gone, while most pop music is forgotten
in a
matter of weeks.

Music is, or should be, about touching people emotionally, and because
everyone is different emotionally, there is no type of music (even Mozart
despite what you say) which touches everyone.

Each to their own of course, but I don't think it is an exaggeration to
say
that almost everyone who listens to any kind of music at all will have
heard
something either written by Mozart or influenced by him (a claim unlikely
to be
matched by Mr Astley), so in a way he really does touch everyone.

Rod.