Cessna172 wrote:
Cessna172 wrote in
. 240.10:
"Ian Iveson" wrote in news:hs0vf.71396
:
What's the bass like at volume into
ordinary mainstream speakers? How well does the piano cope with the
tympani? Or light cymbals with saxophone? Is Mahler muddled?
Interesting question ;-)
Following that up, what issues would you expect to hear using a valve amp
into ordinary modern speakers?
--
Cessna172
Though I started this thread, I don't actually know what size the amp
is that Keith lent you. The big issue in tube amps is matching the tube
with the speaker through the transformer: output impedance, damping
factor, sensitiviity/volume and transient overload ability.
If you have a PP tube amp in the range of 20-25W, your speakers hardly
matter. If your tube amp is smaller, you want a progressively more
sensitive speaker. When you get down into the real quality of tube
amps, which is generally low-wattage to keep it affordable (you're now
in company where a very fine 300B amp is the budget option), very
sensitive point source speakers, often horns, are chosen first and then
the tube amp to drive them. At this point you might also choose panels
like ESL63 (which are "ordinary modern speakers" at least in this
company) and tube amps start rising in price exponentially as you again
come up to the power required.
From experience: 1W is all it takes to drive Lowther horns well at
sensitivities of about 96dB bare and 101dB inbox, and 16W of SE power
(parallel single ended 300B, say) is good for ESL63 which are about
85dB sensitive, i.e. not very.
Generally speaking, with tube-friendly speakers, 2W is considered more
than enough for all contingencies. There's a tube friendly speak on my
site that you can build a pair of for about 150 buck; look for The
Impresario.
If your speakers are not quite suitable the bass will not sound right,
and big moments in the music will sound rough. It really depends what
you play. I have an 75W SE amp; it sounds great playing symphonies at
ear-splitting volumes through panels. I hardly ever play symphonies,
and never at earsplitting volumes. It has been years since I used that
amp at 75W; instead I use it at 20W+ configuration because that is more
than enough for huge, huge volumes on the most insensitive speakers I
own.
Having said all that, I always advise people to get their speakers
first, decide they want to marry them for life, then buy an amp that
works with the speakers regardless of whether it is tube or solid
state, PP or SE, or any other consideration.
You don't listen to the amp; you listen to the speakers. All these
discussions about amps, cheap Chinese v. best-quality custom made, is
so many angels dancing on the head of a pin. The truth is that any amp,
including the Chinese under discussion, is an elitist item at the top
of the market, whereas even expensive speakers are by no means a final
solution. Furthermore, even if you have fabulous speakers for every
single purpose, you will hear the subtle differences under discussion
here only if your system is in balance, for instance if your source is
as well matched the rest of the system.
HTH.
Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
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containing vital gems of wisdom"
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Why cheap Chinese amps are not the chopping block for high-end tube amps
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