On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 15:07:56 -0000, "Andrew Virnuls"
wrote:

"Keith G" wrote in message
.. .

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello all,

I thinking of venturing into the world of hi-fi seperates and I'm
starting by looking for an amplifier. I don't have a great budget for
this, around £150, therefore I have narrowed my choice down to the
following:

Cambridge Audio AZUR 340A
Sony TA-FE370
Marantz PM4001

I can find a bit on the net about the CA amp but not much about the
others.

So what I was wondering is if there is much to choose from these
models, or at this price range am I likely to find that they are all
much of a muchness?

There are those here who will tell you they will all sound the same. I
don't *know* that, but I suspect they will - worry about your speakers
more and match the best amp to them you can. Speaker/amp pairings in
*your* room are the secret to success, AFAIAC....

If they all sound the same, on what criteria would you judge one to be "the
best"?

Also, if they all sound the same, how come most of the regular posters who
say they all sound the same have equipment that costs far in excess of £150?

I use a Krell because I have insensitive 3-ohm speakers, and it's also
a useful reference for comparisons. The advice above is correct -
start with the speakers and find an amp which will drive them
adequately to the sound levels you enjoy. In your price bracket, they
do *not* all sound the same - some will definitely run out of power on
things like piano chords and drum hits.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Pinkerton:
I use a Krell because I have insensitive 3-ohm speakers, and it's
also
a useful reference for comparisons.

Why would you need a reference for comparisons, since all amplifiers
sound the same?.

On 10 Feb 2006 15:52:19 -0800, "Andy Evans"
wrote:

Pinkerton:
I use a Krell because I have insensitive 3-ohm speakers, and it's
also
a useful reference for comparisons.

Why would you need a reference for comparisons, since all amplifiers
sound the same?.

Who ever said that? Just another cheap lie from Evans, in his usual
braindead style. BTW, I need a reference becaise lying clowns like you
would otherewise claim that I'd never heard a decent amplifier. Also
because when comparing amps into difficult speakers, I *know* that the
Krell isn't going to run out of steam.

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Pinkerton advised:
find an amp which will drive them
adequately to the sound levels you enjoy. In your price bracket, they
do *not* all sound the same -

Would you say this is the same as saying
"amplifiers that sound different, sound different. Amplifiers that
sound the same sound the same"?
Much like "Yellow things are as yellow as other yellow things, but not
as yellow as red things"

Andy Evans wrote:
Pinkerton advised:
find an amp which will drive them
adequately to the sound levels you enjoy. In your price bracket, they
do *not* all sound the same -

Would you say this is the same as saying
"amplifiers that sound different, sound different. Amplifiers that
sound the same sound the same"?
Much like "Yellow things are as yellow as other yellow things, but not
as yellow as red things"

Andy: I don't know why you waste your time. Pinkerton says all the time
that all competent amps sound the same, except when you corner him,
when he calls you a liar for holding him to account on account of the
much more expensive amp he brags of.

But this business about Pinkerton's Krell isn't merely about amps, it
is about psychology. Pinkerton belongs to the hunt, has told us he
thinks the anoraks should eat in the officers' mess, that his little
VW-base Audi is special, that his sport at college was fencing, that
his favourite watch is an IWC Ingenieur... There is much more of the
same; a pattern of a social climber is not difficult to distingush.
Pinkerton's Krell isn't a case in sonics, it is a case study in an
inferiority complex, which should be right down your street as a
psychologist.

The problem with being an electronics engineer, dull, and desirous of
being in good standing with one's peers, is that one is forced to
accept that one's amplifier cannot be better in any respect than the
next fellow's amplifier. They will all sound the same, so there can be
no difference. Therefore Pinkerton must find another reason to make his
amplifier "special". That is his demand that it drive three ohm
speakers. Therefore he can justify an expensive Krell, at five times
the price of the common soundalike elcheapo high street amplifier Arny
Krueger advises. Problem of inferiority solved without breaching the
peer code of the "engineers".

So Pinkerton is superior because his amp sounds the same but different
because it costs more. It's really very simple for someone like
Pinkerton who so constantly twists the truth into lies that he no
longer knows what the truth is.

Oh, by the way, before the usual scum smear me as "a SET-lover", right
now I'm listening to a Quad 405 Mk II, which has more than enough oomph
to make my ears bleed with bleeding-ear speakers if I should ever want
to do anything that unpleasant and stupid, though of course I prefer
electrostats at civilized levels.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site
containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review

In article , Andrew
Virnuls wrote:
"Keith G" wrote in message
...



There are those here who will tell you they will all sound the same. I
don't *know* that, but I suspect they will - worry about your
speakers more and match the best amp to them you can. Speaker/amp
pairings in *your* room are the secret to success, AFAIAC....

If they all sound the same, on what criteria would you judge one to be
"the best"?

Also, if they all sound the same, how come most of the regular posters
who say they all sound the same have equipment that costs far in excess
of £150?

Not wanting to start a fight - just curious!

The answer is that Keith's comment "they will tell you they all sound the
same" is an oversimplification. :-)

Many amps may 'sound similar-to-indistinguishable' - but which ones do, and
to what extent, will largely depend on the conditions of use.

Obvious example. If you want very high sound levels from low sensitivity
low impedance speakers in a big room then you may find that one amp clips
but another does not. But the same pair of amps may be similar or
indistinguishable at lower levels with some other speakers...

So largely a matter of context.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

In article , Keith G wrote:
I thinking of venturing into the world of hi-fi seperates and I'm
starting by looking for an amplifier. I don't have a great budget for
this, around £150, therefore I have narrowed my choice down to the
following:

Cambridge Audio AZUR 340A
Sony TA-FE370
Marantz PM4001

I can find a bit on the net about the CA amp but not much about the
others.

So what I was wondering is if there is much to choose from these
models, or at this price range am I likely to find that they are all
much of a muchness?

There shouldn't be any difference in the sound, so choose on the basis
of numbers of inputs and outputs and controls, (and appearance if you
think that's important). For what it's worth, I have the Cambridge 540A,
which is probably the same as the one you're considering with a more
beefy power supply and output stage. It has six line level inputs with
very good isolation between them, and a remote control that can also
drive their CD players - in fact it's identical with the one supplied
with the Azur CD players, so if you buy both you'll have a spare remote.

And Richer Sounds sell them, which is a big plus in my opinion.

Rod.

"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
om...
In article , Keith G wrote:
I thinking of venturing into the world of hi-fi seperates and I'm
starting by looking for an amplifier. I don't have a great budget for
this, around £150, therefore I have narrowed my choice down to the
following:

Cambridge Audio AZUR 340A
Sony TA-FE370
Marantz PM4001

I can find a bit on the net about the CA amp but not much about the
others.

So what I was wondering is if there is much to choose from these
models, or at this price range am I likely to find that they are all
much of a muchness?

There shouldn't be any difference in the sound, so choose on the basis
of numbers of inputs and outputs and controls, (and appearance if you
think that's important). For what it's worth, I have the Cambridge 540A,
which is probably the same as the one you're considering with a more
beefy power supply and output stage. It has six line level inputs with
very good isolation between them, and a remote control that can also
drive their CD players - in fact it's identical with the one supplied
with the Azur CD players, so if you buy both you'll have a spare remote.



You've replied to the wrong person - I'm not in the market for that sort of
amp.

Might buy a pair of 'em though - and have 'em made up as cufflinks!!

:-P

In article , Keith G wrote:
You've replied to the wrong person - I'm not in the market for that sort of
amp.

Might buy a pair of 'em though - and have 'em made up as cufflinks!!

Ah, I see what's happened - you quoted somebody else without the usual
indication that it was a quote, so I thought it was you.

They were, however, asking about the Cambridge 340A, so I thought my opinion
of the 540A might be of interest.

Rod.

"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
om...
In article , Keith G wrote:
You've replied to the wrong person - I'm not in the market for that sort
of
amp.

Might buy a pair of 'em though - and have 'em made up as cufflinks!!

Ah, I see what's happened - you quoted somebody else without the usual
indication that it was a quote,


No I didn't....


so I thought it was you.


No it wasn't....