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Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
Hello all,
I thinking of venturing into the world of hi-fi seperates and I'm starting by looking for an amplifier. I don't have a great budget for this, around £150, therefore I have narrowed my choice down to the following: Cambridge Audio AZUR 340A Sony TA-FE370 Marantz PM4001 I can find a bit on the net about the CA amp but not much about the others. So what I was wondering is if there is much to choose from these models, or at this price range am I likely to find that they are all much of a muchness? Thanks in advance and sorry if this sort of question has been asked a million times before. matt |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
wrote in message oups.com... Hello all, I thinking of venturing into the world of hi-fi seperates and I'm starting by looking for an amplifier. I don't have a great budget for this, around £150, therefore I have narrowed my choice down to the following: Cambridge Audio AZUR 340A Sony TA-FE370 Marantz PM4001 I can find a bit on the net about the CA amp but not much about the others. So what I was wondering is if there is much to choose from these models, or at this price range am I likely to find that they are all much of a muchness? There are those here who will tell you they will all sound the same. I don't *know* that, but I suspect they will - worry about your speakers more and match the best amp to them you can. Speaker/amp pairings in *your* room are the secret to success, AFAIAC.... |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
"Keith G" wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com... Hello all, I thinking of venturing into the world of hi-fi seperates and I'm starting by looking for an amplifier. I don't have a great budget for this, around £150, therefore I have narrowed my choice down to the following: Cambridge Audio AZUR 340A Sony TA-FE370 Marantz PM4001 I can find a bit on the net about the CA amp but not much about the others. So what I was wondering is if there is much to choose from these models, or at this price range am I likely to find that they are all much of a muchness? There are those here who will tell you they will all sound the same. I don't *know* that, but I suspect they will - worry about your speakers more and match the best amp to them you can. Speaker/amp pairings in *your* room are the secret to success, AFAIAC.... Keith's advice is the same as mine (and I am one of those who will tell you that they will probably sound so close as not to be worth worrying about). Buy the 'speakers that you like the sound of first, then find a suitable amp to drive them with. As to the three you mentioned, I would avoid the Sony, for no better reason than their after-sales support is dreadful, and if you need a repair, you may be waiting weeks for it. S. |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
"Keith G" wrote in message
... wrote in message oups.com... Hello all, I thinking of venturing into the world of hi-fi seperates and I'm starting by looking for an amplifier. I don't have a great budget for this, around £150, therefore I have narrowed my choice down to the following: Cambridge Audio AZUR 340A Sony TA-FE370 Marantz PM4001 I can find a bit on the net about the CA amp but not much about the others. So what I was wondering is if there is much to choose from these models, or at this price range am I likely to find that they are all much of a muchness? There are those here who will tell you they will all sound the same. I don't *know* that, but I suspect they will - worry about your speakers more and match the best amp to them you can. Speaker/amp pairings in *your* room are the secret to success, AFAIAC.... If they all sound the same, on what criteria would you judge one to be "the best"? Also, if they all sound the same, how come most of the regular posters who say they all sound the same have equipment that costs far in excess of £150? Not wanting to start a fight - just curious! Andrew |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
"Andrew Virnuls" wrote in message ... "Keith G" wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com... Hello all, I thinking of venturing into the world of hi-fi seperates and I'm starting by looking for an amplifier. I don't have a great budget for this, around £150, therefore I have narrowed my choice down to the following: Cambridge Audio AZUR 340A Sony TA-FE370 Marantz PM4001 I can find a bit on the net about the CA amp but not much about the others. So what I was wondering is if there is much to choose from these models, or at this price range am I likely to find that they are all much of a muchness? There are those here who will tell you they will all sound the same. I don't *know* that, but I suspect they will - worry about your speakers more and match the best amp to them you can. Speaker/amp pairings in *your* room are the secret to success, AFAIAC.... If they all sound the same, on what criteria would you judge one to be "the best"? Also, if they all sound the same, how come most of the regular posters who say they all sound the same have equipment that costs far in excess of £150? Not wanting to start a fight - just curious! :-) OK, you make me Devil's Advocate here because I don't use SS amps (at least I don't think I do - see below :-), but I happen to agree that, taken on a like for like basis in similar price bands, it's damn near impossible to tell amplifiers apart these days. (Not valves - different story altogether). Although, I can't speak for so-called 'high end amps because I've never really heard them, but at 20K and up who the hell has?? The important factor with an amplifier is how well does it work with ('drive') your speakers. Some amps will quite simply sound and work much better than others, mostly down (I believe) to tricky **** like the impedance matching, damping factor, current delivery, power supplies &c, The important thing to realise is that is the speaker that has the *requirements* not the other way round and before you look at amps/speakers, it is the room which will place the most important restrictions on what you may use. The place to start is with any reasonable amp (begged, borrowed or stolen) of not less than, say, 30 wpc possibly from eBay (there's plenty of people here who will advise if candidates are chosen) and try and find the best speaker match to the room. Bass is usually the let-down - people think they need lots of it and usually end up muddying the overall sound picture with 'room boom' &c. On eBay right now there are 678 amplifiers, the first one I have had experience of is this one: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Cambridge-Audi...QQcmdZViewItem and I would recommend it to anyone starting the whole selection process. It's a fine little amp, if not broken, IMO... This one: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...keTra ck=true I will BUY, if the price stays anywhere like it atm!! (In fact I am now the current high bidder, so I hope no-one here does the dirty on me!! ;-) Once a pair of speakers proves themselves 'stand out' you then try different amps with it until a *synergy* is perceived. This can take a lifetime or it can happen with the first amp you try. Forget quick, 'snap decision' A/B testing, it tells you nothing - buy gear in tandem so that you have two (or more) of everything until clear winners emerge. Then and only then do let an amp go and re-invest the money in the next stage. When it's hard to split amps by the sound you are getting, the 'bells and whistles' (phono stage, tone controls, number of inputs, blue LEDS, how nice the knobs feel &c..) will probably be the deciding factor. It's a palaver, it's time-consuming, it's expensive, it's *hobby audio*!! :-) One thing I can tell is that if you are *really* interested in getting the best possible sound (ie venturing into separates, as the OP states) you will never do it by rushing out and buying all of the list that different people will give/recommend to you. My 2p only.... |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
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Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
In article , Andrew
Virnuls wrote: "Keith G" wrote in message ... There are those here who will tell you they will all sound the same. I don't *know* that, but I suspect they will - worry about your speakers more and match the best amp to them you can. Speaker/amp pairings in *your* room are the secret to success, AFAIAC.... If they all sound the same, on what criteria would you judge one to be "the best"? Also, if they all sound the same, how come most of the regular posters who say they all sound the same have equipment that costs far in excess of £150? Not wanting to start a fight - just curious! The answer is that Keith's comment "they will tell you they all sound the same" is an oversimplification. :-) Many amps may 'sound similar-to-indistinguishable' - but which ones do, and to what extent, will largely depend on the conditions of use. Obvious example. If you want very high sound levels from low sensitivity low impedance speakers in a big room then you may find that one amp clips but another does not. But the same pair of amps may be similar or indistinguishable at lower levels with some other speakers... So largely a matter of context. Slainte, Jim -- Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
"Andrew Virnuls" wrote in message ... "Keith G" wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com... Hello all, I thinking of venturing into the world of hi-fi seperates and I'm starting by looking for an amplifier. I don't have a great budget for this, around £150, therefore I have narrowed my choice down to the following: Cambridge Audio AZUR 340A Sony TA-FE370 Marantz PM4001 I can find a bit on the net about the CA amp but not much about the others. So what I was wondering is if there is much to choose from these models, or at this price range am I likely to find that they are all much of a muchness? There are those here who will tell you they will all sound the same. I don't *know* that, but I suspect they will - worry about your speakers more and match the best amp to them you can. Speaker/amp pairings in *your* room are the secret to success, AFAIAC.... If they all sound the same, on what criteria would you judge one to be "the best"? Facilities, build quality, manufacturer's reputation, looks, price, any or all of those. Also, if they all sound the same, how come most of the regular posters who say they all sound the same have equipment that costs far in excess of £150? Several reasons, but if you look at the list above; facilities, build quality and looks all cost money to produce. The manufacturer's reputation will be enhanced by good after-sales support, marketing etc which also cost money, so the good stuff costs more. Given that all manufacturers will charge as much as they can for a product, the good stuff also sells at a premium. A small £ 150 integrated amp will be much like any other £ 150 integrated amp, but if you want more power, facilities, etc, then you need to pay a lot more than £ 150. Then, there is the volume pricing:- If a manufacturer wants to sell a product at the £150 price level, they will necessarily need to make them in large quantity, probably in the far-east. On the other hand, a manufacturer at the high-end will be manufacturing in much small quantities, and won't be getting the benefit of the large-scale production, so has to charge more, even proportionately more. Finally, there what I call the Audio-Note syndrome. Take a design which anyone could make for £ 500, hype it to the skies and sell it for £ 10,000. You only need to persuade a few people to buy it, and you've made your fortune. S. Not wanting to start a fight - just curious! Andrew |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
"Keith G" wrote in
: The place to start is with any reasonable amp (begged, borrowed or stolen) of not less than, say, 30 wpc possibly from eBay (there's plenty of people here who will advise if candidates are chosen) and try and find the best speaker match to the room. Bass is usually the let-down - people think they need lots of it and usually end up muddying the overall sound picture with 'room boom' &c. Yes, don't get caught up with bigger is better - it may not be. On eBay right now there are 678 amplifiers, the first one I have had experience of is this one: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Cambridge-Audi...lifier_W0QQite mZ5861343993QQcategoryZ3280QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem and I would recommend it to anyone starting the whole selection process. It's a fine little amp, if not broken, IMO... YES - I will agree with Keith here. I started out 4 years ago with an amp very similar to that from Cambridge and very nice it was too. I had it for a year then 'upgraded' - I am still upgrading and still searching! This one: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...343175&fromMak eTrack=true I will BUY, if the price stays anywhere like it atm!! (In fact I am now the current high bidder, so I hope no-one here does the dirty on me!! ;-) Class A? I had better bid on it ;-P -- Cessna172 |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
"Keith G" wrote in
: One thing I can tell is that if you are *really* interested in getting the best possible sound (ie venturing into separates, as the OP states) you will never do it by rushing out and buying all of the list that different people will give/recommend to you. You sure? What HiFi has been a real buddy to me ;-P -- Cessna172 |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
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Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 15:07:56 -0000, "Andrew Virnuls"
wrote: "Keith G" wrote in message .. . wrote in message oups.com... Hello all, I thinking of venturing into the world of hi-fi seperates and I'm starting by looking for an amplifier. I don't have a great budget for this, around £150, therefore I have narrowed my choice down to the following: Cambridge Audio AZUR 340A Sony TA-FE370 Marantz PM4001 I can find a bit on the net about the CA amp but not much about the others. So what I was wondering is if there is much to choose from these models, or at this price range am I likely to find that they are all much of a muchness? There are those here who will tell you they will all sound the same. I don't *know* that, but I suspect they will - worry about your speakers more and match the best amp to them you can. Speaker/amp pairings in *your* room are the secret to success, AFAIAC.... If they all sound the same, on what criteria would you judge one to be "the best"? Also, if they all sound the same, how come most of the regular posters who say they all sound the same have equipment that costs far in excess of £150? I use a Krell because I have insensitive 3-ohm speakers, and it's also a useful reference for comparisons. The advice above is correct - start with the speakers and find an amp which will drive them adequately to the sound levels you enjoy. In your price bracket, they do *not* all sound the same - some will definitely run out of power on things like piano chords and drum hits. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
"Cessna172" wrote in message . 240.10... "Keith G" wrote in : The place to start is with any reasonable amp (begged, borrowed or stolen) of not less than, say, 30 wpc possibly from eBay (there's plenty of people here who will advise if candidates are chosen) and try and find the best speaker match to the room. Bass is usually the let-down - people think they need lots of it and usually end up muddying the overall sound picture with 'room boom' &c. Yes, don't get caught up with bigger is better - it may not be. On eBay right now there are 678 amplifiers, the first one I have had experience of is this one: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Cambridge-Audi...lifier_W0QQite mZ5861343993QQcategoryZ3280QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem and I would recommend it to anyone starting the whole selection process. It's a fine little amp, if not broken, IMO... YES - I will agree with Keith here. I started out 4 years ago with an amp very similar to that from Cambridge and very nice it was too. I had it for a year then 'upgraded' - I am still upgrading and still searching! 'Sidegrading', it's called.... ;-) This one: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...343175&fromMak eTrack=true I will BUY, if the price stays anywhere like it atm!! (In fact I am now the current high bidder, so I hope no-one here does the dirty on me!! ;-) Class A? I had better bid on it ;-P Too late - that one's history, it'll go well over a hundred by the time it's done, I should think..... I thought the poor cosmetics would keep the price down, but not the case it would seem.(I'm sure I've bought from that seller before...???) I do want to run Class A SS up against valves to see if there are similarities, but I want to do it for 'nowt' - I don't think I'm going to get a Sugden for peanuts though....... (There *is* another.... ;-) |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
"Cessna172" wrote in message . 240.10... "Keith G" wrote in : One thing I can tell is that if you are *really* interested in getting the best possible sound (ie venturing into separates, as the OP states) you will never do it by rushing out and buying all of the list that different people will give/recommend to you. You sure? What HiFi has been a real buddy to me ;-P You mean to bloody Sevenoaks, more like!! ;-) |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
In article , Keith G wrote:
I thinking of venturing into the world of hi-fi seperates and I'm starting by looking for an amplifier. I don't have a great budget for this, around £150, therefore I have narrowed my choice down to the following: Cambridge Audio AZUR 340A Sony TA-FE370 Marantz PM4001 I can find a bit on the net about the CA amp but not much about the others. So what I was wondering is if there is much to choose from these models, or at this price range am I likely to find that they are all much of a muchness? There shouldn't be any difference in the sound, so choose on the basis of numbers of inputs and outputs and controls, (and appearance if you think that's important). For what it's worth, I have the Cambridge 540A, which is probably the same as the one you're considering with a more beefy power supply and output stage. It has six line level inputs with very good isolation between them, and a remote control that can also drive their CD players - in fact it's identical with the one supplied with the Azur CD players, so if you buy both you'll have a spare remote. And Richer Sounds sell them, which is a big plus in my opinion. Rod. |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message om... In article , Keith G wrote: I thinking of venturing into the world of hi-fi seperates and I'm starting by looking for an amplifier. I don't have a great budget for this, around £150, therefore I have narrowed my choice down to the following: Cambridge Audio AZUR 340A Sony TA-FE370 Marantz PM4001 I can find a bit on the net about the CA amp but not much about the others. So what I was wondering is if there is much to choose from these models, or at this price range am I likely to find that they are all much of a muchness? There shouldn't be any difference in the sound, so choose on the basis of numbers of inputs and outputs and controls, (and appearance if you think that's important). For what it's worth, I have the Cambridge 540A, which is probably the same as the one you're considering with a more beefy power supply and output stage. It has six line level inputs with very good isolation between them, and a remote control that can also drive their CD players - in fact it's identical with the one supplied with the Azur CD players, so if you buy both you'll have a spare remote. You've replied to the wrong person - I'm not in the market for that sort of amp. Might buy a pair of 'em though - and have 'em made up as cufflinks!! :-P |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
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Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
wrote:
Hello all, I thinking of venturing into the world of hi-fi seperates and I'm starting by looking for an amplifier. I don't have a great budget for this, around £150, therefore I have narrowed my choice down to the following: Cambridge Audio AZUR 340A Sony TA-FE370 Marantz PM4001 Why not wander over to http://www.onkyo.co.uk/ I have had one of their A922 Integrated amps feeding Quad ESL63s for years They most likely have re-modelled it by now but its been a real pleasure listening to the combination. |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
In article , Keith G wrote:
You've replied to the wrong person - I'm not in the market for that sort of amp. Might buy a pair of 'em though - and have 'em made up as cufflinks!! Ah, I see what's happened - you quoted somebody else without the usual indication that it was a quote, so I thought it was you. They were, however, asking about the Cambridge 340A, so I thought my opinion of the 540A might be of interest. Rod. |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
On 7 Feb 2006 05:53:47 -0800, wrote: Hello all, I thinking of venturing into the world of hi-fi seperates and I'm starting by looking for an amplifier. I don't have a great budget for this, around £150, therefore I have narrowed my choice down to the following: Cambridge Audio AZUR 340A Sony TA-FE370 Marantz PM4001 I can find a bit on the net about the CA amp but not much about the others. So what I was wondering is if there is much to choose from these models, or at this price range am I likely to find that they are all much of a muchness? Thanks in advance and sorry if this sort of question has been asked a million times before. This is definitely in a budget area where corners get cut in power amplifiers, and I suspect that the Cambridge unit will provide audibly superior performance - contrary to what many people *claim* the 'objectivists' say................. Mr. Pinkerton on many occasions you have claimed that a 200 euro yamaha *receiver* would sound the same as any high-end pre-power combo, and you have added that, quote: "provided that the high end gear are up to the task" !! You are a lying, low-life prick, mr pinkerton. |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
"Fella" wrote in message
Mr. Pinkerton on many occasions you have claimed that a 200 euro yamaha *receiver* would sound the same as any high-end pre-power combo, and you have added that, quote: "provided that the high end gear are up to the task" !! You are a lying, low-life prick, mr pinkerton. Classic case of shooting the messenger. |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 11:34:43 +0200, Fella wrote:
Stewart Pinkerton wrote: On 7 Feb 2006 05:53:47 -0800, wrote: Hello all, I thinking of venturing into the world of hi-fi seperates and I'm starting by looking for an amplifier. I don't have a great budget for this, around £150, therefore I have narrowed my choice down to the following: Cambridge Audio AZUR 340A Sony TA-FE370 Marantz PM4001 I can find a bit on the net about the CA amp but not much about the others. So what I was wondering is if there is much to choose from these models, or at this price range am I likely to find that they are all much of a muchness? Thanks in advance and sorry if this sort of question has been asked a million times before. This is definitely in a budget area where corners get cut in power amplifiers, and I suspect that the Cambridge unit will provide audibly superior performance - contrary to what many people *claim* the 'objectivists' say................. Mr. Pinkerton on many occasions you have claimed that a 200 euro yamaha *receiver* would sound the same as any high-end pre-power combo, and you have added that, quote: "provided that the high end gear are up to the task" !! You are a lying, low-life prick, mr pinkerton. Actually, the lying low-life prick would be you - as usual. I said no such thing. What I certainly *did* say was that a 100-watt Yamaha *amplifier* (AX-570 at that time) was indistiguishable from a Krell on most programme. Into the particularly difficult load of Apogee Duetta speakers, a very slight trace of brightness was noted in treble-heavy material such as acoustic jazz with lots of cymbal work. It's also true that a lot of so-called 'high-end' gear is so poorly designed as to be effectively broken, despite astronomic price tags. SET amplifiers in general, and the Audio Note and YBA CD players in particular, come to mind. Now, did you actually have a point, aside from the one on top of your head? -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
Pinkerton:
I suspect that the Cambridge unit will provide audibly superior performance You know quite well that this is impossible - all amplifiers sound the same. Or is it faith-based presumption? |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 11:34:43 +0200, Fella wrote: Stewart Pinkerton wrote: On 7 Feb 2006 05:53:47 -0800, wrote: Hello all, I thinking of venturing into the world of hi-fi seperates and I'm starting by looking for an amplifier. I don't have a great budget for this, around £150, therefore I have narrowed my choice down to the following: Cambridge Audio AZUR 340A Sony TA-FE370 Marantz PM4001 I can find a bit on the net about the CA amp but not much about the others. So what I was wondering is if there is much to choose from these models, or at this price range am I likely to find that they are all much of a muchness? Thanks in advance and sorry if this sort of question has been asked a million times before. This is definitely in a budget area where corners get cut in power amplifiers, and I suspect that the Cambridge unit will provide audibly superior performance - contrary to what many people *claim* the 'objectivists' say................. Mr. Pinkerton on many occasions you have claimed that a 200 euro yamaha *receiver* would sound the same as any high-end pre-power combo, and you have added that, quote: "provided that the high end gear are up to the task" !! You are a lying, low-life prick, mr pinkerton. Actually, the lying low-life prick would be you - as usual. I said no such thing. Hmmm.... I wonder who was the lying low life piece of **** that said these things then: "That's the fun part of it. Mostly, they *do* sound the same. It takes a truly outrageously priced 'high end' amp to really **** up the sound! " "Advances in active devices and have allowed mid-price amplifiers to achieve the same standard for much less manufacturing cost. In other words, in sonic terms, amplifiers have not got better, just cheaper." |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 11:25:51 +0200, Fella wrote:
Stewart Pinkerton wrote: On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 11:34:43 +0200, Fella wrote: Stewart Pinkerton wrote: On 7 Feb 2006 05:53:47 -0800, wrote: Hello all, I thinking of venturing into the world of hi-fi seperates and I'm starting by looking for an amplifier. I don't have a great budget for this, around £150, therefore I have narrowed my choice down to the following: Cambridge Audio AZUR 340A Sony TA-FE370 Marantz PM4001 I can find a bit on the net about the CA amp but not much about the others. So what I was wondering is if there is much to choose from these models, or at this price range am I likely to find that they are all much of a muchness? Thanks in advance and sorry if this sort of question has been asked a million times before. This is definitely in a budget area where corners get cut in power amplifiers, and I suspect that the Cambridge unit will provide audibly superior performance - contrary to what many people *claim* the 'objectivists' say................. Mr. Pinkerton on many occasions you have claimed that a 200 euro yamaha *receiver* would sound the same as any high-end pre-power combo, and you have added that, quote: "provided that the high end gear are up to the task" !! You are a lying, low-life prick, mr pinkerton. Actually, the lying low-life prick would be you - as usual. I said no such thing. Hmmm.... I wonder who was the lying low life piece of **** that said these things then: "That's the fun part of it. Mostly, they *do* sound the same. It takes a truly outrageously priced 'high end' amp to really **** up the sound! " That was no 'lying low life piece of ****', that was me - and it reinforces my own reply to your post above, rather than your gross exaggerration of what I actually said. "Advances in active devices and have allowed mid-price amplifiers to achieve the same standard for much less manufacturing cost. In other words, in sonic terms, amplifiers have not got better, just cheaper." That's also correct, and nowhere does it mention a 200 Euro Yamaha receiver. Note also that £150 is not 'mid-price', that would be more in the £250-750 range, where sonic transparency up to realistic SPLs is certainly achievable into the vast majority of speakers. As I also noted, you need to spend at least ten times that to get something 'high end' that *really* screws up the sound, so that it can be *different* from the genuinely neutral mainstream stuff. As ever, Mr Tio, you're just a whining and lying litle creep, with no real argument. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
Pinkerton:
that would be more in the £250-750 range, where sonic transparency up to realistic SPLs is certainly achievable into the vast majority of speakers. As I also noted, you need to spend at least ten times that to get something 'high end' that *really* screws up the sound, So amplifiers all sound the same except some sound the same louder. But all amplifiers sound the same so that's impossible, they all sound the same. My problem with you is not your faith based assumptions but the fact that you may be misleading others on this newsgroup. |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
Pinkerton:
I use a Krell because I have insensitive 3-ohm speakers, and it's also a useful reference for comparisons. Why would you need a reference for comparisons, since all amplifiers sound the same?. |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
Pinkerton:
the Cambridge unit will provide audibly superior performance That's impossible - all amplifiers sound the same. This would be a faith based assumption, presumably? |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
In article ,
Fella wrote: Mr. Pinkerton on many occasions you have claimed that a 200 euro yamaha *receiver* would sound the same as any high-end pre-power combo, and you have added that, quote: "provided that the high end gear are up to the ^^^ task" !! Are you suggesting Mr P is illiterate? -- *And don't start a sentence with a conjunction * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
On 10 Feb 2006 15:54:22 -0800, "Andy Evans"
wrote: Pinkerton: the Cambridge unit will provide audibly superior performance That's impossible - all amplifiers sound the same. This would be a faith based assumption, presumably? Where did you see anyone say that? You just made it up, like your fairy tales about the sound of passive components. I note that you are now so devoid both of credible argument and morality, that you are reduced to snipping out of context, and flat lying. Quelle surprise............... -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
On 10 Feb 2006 15:50:21 -0800, "Andy Evans"
wrote: Pinkerton: that would be more in the ò50-750 range, where sonic transparency up to realistic SPLs is certainly achievable into the vast majority of speakers. As I also noted, you need to spend at least ten times that to get something 'high end' that *really* screws up the sound, So amplifiers all sound the same except some sound the same louder. Not what Isaid, of course, so just another pathetic strawman from Evans, who wouldn't recognise a credible argumemnt if he fell over one in the street. But all amplifiers sound the same so that's impossible, they all sound the same. My problem with you is not your faith based assumptions but the fact that you may be misleading others on this newsgroup. Evans, you have *many* problems of a deeply troubling nature, but that isn't one of them. Do you really think that plain *lying* will give you any credibility? BTW, I thought you said you were out of here - just another dumb lie? Get help, quickly............. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
On 10 Feb 2006 15:52:19 -0800, "Andy Evans"
wrote: Pinkerton: I use a Krell because I have insensitive 3-ohm speakers, and it's also a useful reference for comparisons. Why would you need a reference for comparisons, since all amplifiers sound the same?. Who ever said that? Just another cheap lie from Evans, in his usual braindead style. BTW, I need a reference becaise lying clowns like you would otherewise claim that I'd never heard a decent amplifier. Also because when comparing amps into difficult speakers, I *know* that the Krell isn't going to run out of steam. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
Why would you need a reference for comparisons, since all amplifiers
sound the same?. Pinkerton then unthinkingly said:: Who ever said that? You did - you've just participated in a long thread which stated that the scientific evidence was that ampliers couldn't be distinguished from each other in DBTs. Jim gave you the references which you clearly haven't had the courtesy to read, or maybe you don't want to read the evidence so you can continue with your faith based assumptions that your Krell sounds 'better' just because you want it to? That isn't science, that's faith, and typical of the woolly self-centred rhetoric you use in place of science. |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
So amplifiers all sound the same except some sound the same louder.
Not what I said, of course: ingenuously ventured Pinkerton I don't think you even know what you are saying anymore. Amplifiers sound the same in DBTs out of one side of your mouth and various actual amplifiers including of course yours, which you chose on that basis, sound 'better'. Do you want to make a choice between these two views or are you happy to muddle along in a hypocritical way saying the first words that come out of your mouth? |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
the Cambridge unit will provide audibly superior performance Said Pinkerton
That's impossible - all amplifiers sound the same. This would be a faith based assumption, presumably? Said Andy Where did you see anyone say that? A confused Pinkerton said You said it. And of course you'll say it again, and again, and again. And then you'll say that in DBTs, scientific evidence has established that listeners can't tell one amplifier from another. And then in the next post you'll go back to saying that the Cambridge unit or the Krell unit or the Audiolab unit will provide audibly superior performance. And then when you fancy it you'll tell us all again that in DBTs, scientific evidence has established that listeners can't tell one amplifier from another. And then you'll tell us about another amplifier that sounds 'audibly superior'. And then...... but we know the rest by now. |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
"Andy Evans" wrote in message oups.com... So amplifiers all sound the same except some sound the same louder. Not what I said, of course: ingenuously ventured Pinkerton I don't think you even know what you are saying anymore. Amplifiers sound the same in DBTs out of one side of your mouth and various actual amplifiers including of course yours, which you chose on that basis, sound 'better'. Do you want to make a choice between these two views or are you happy to muddle along in a hypocritical way saying the first words that come out of your mouth? Andy, if I may be permitted to enter this discussion? Stewart uses a Krell because his 'speakers are a 3 ohm load, which very little else will drive. There is no conflict between our view that all amplifiers sound the same when used within their design parameters and the use of a Krell. Krells are designed to work down to 1 ohm, and few others will do this, therefore, into a 3 ohm load, the Krell will be used within its design parameters, whereas others will not be. It also follows that a Krell will be usable as a reference against which other amplifiers can be judged since it will perform within its design parameters into any known loudspeaker load. Into normal loads, the Krell will sound no different to any other competent amplifier. S. |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
"Andy Evans" wrote in message oups.com... So amplifiers all sound the same except some sound the same louder. Not what I said, of course: ingenuously ventured Pinkerton I don't think you even know what you are saying anymore. Amplifiers sound the same in DBTs out of one side of your mouth and various actual amplifiers including of course yours, which you chose on that basis, sound 'better'. Do you want to make a choice between these two views or are you happy to muddle along in a hypocritical way saying the first words that come out of your mouth? Andy, if I may be permitted to enter this discussion? Stewart uses a Krell because his 'speakers are a 3 ohm load, which very little else will drive. There is no conflict between our view that all amplifiers sound the same when used within their design parameters and the use of a Krell. Krells are designed to work down to 1 ohm, and few others will do this, therefore, into a 3 ohm load, the Krell will be used within its design parameters, whereas others will not be. It also follows that a Krell will be usable as a reference against which other amplifiers can be judged since it will perform within its design parameters into any known loudspeaker load. Into normal loads, the Krell will sound no different to any other competent amplifier. S. |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
Hello Serge: your posts are clearly argued and easy to read.
Before defending Pinkerton you might want to deliberate on why he tells people "the Cambridge unit will provide audibly superior performance" or various other such things that slip indiscriminately out of his mouth, and which he seems to conveniently forget he said. You might come to the conclusion that there are some serious double standards going on in this newsgroup. You may come to the conclusion that in practice even hardened proponants of the scientific method will casually say "to my ears this sounds better than that". You may then come to the same conclusion as I did - that if people are doing one thing in theory and another in practice, then it may be interesting to re-examine the theory. Andy |
Newbie question on amplifers (sorry!)
In article .com,
Andy Evans wrote: Why would you need a reference for comparisons, since all amplifiers sound the same?. Pinkerton then unthinkingly said:: Who ever said that? You did - you've just participated in a long thread which stated that the scientific evidence was that ampliers couldn't be distinguished from each other in DBTs. Jim gave you the references which you clearly haven't had the courtesy to read, or maybe you don't want to read the evidence so you can continue with your faith based assumptions that your Krell sounds 'better' just because you want it to? That isn't science, that's faith, and typical of the woolly self-centred rhetoric you use in place of science. Not certain what "Jim gave" that Andy is referring to here. But if it is the two references I mentioned in the 'One for the bottleheads" thread, then what Andy says about them above takes them out of context and makes a misleading statement about them. The references neither say, nor provide evidence for, the assertion that *all* amplifiers "sound the same". Nor, so far as I know, has Stewart or anyone else I can recall ever claimed this. Andy: If you want to make such assertions about what Stewart has said, then please specify the time and date of posting of the statements you are referring to, and quote them in context. This would then allow Stewart *and others* to make their own assessments of your assertions, and of what he has *actually* said. If you had read and understood the references I gave, you would, yourself, be aware that they simply don't say what you assert. Slainte, Jim -- Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html |
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