"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 23:29:52 GMT, wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 17:12:02 GMT, wrote:

How would you know that an amp NOT YET BUILT would sound "****ty"?

Because it was an SET.

Can you give us the names of the last 10 SETs that you've listened to?

I could, but then I'd have to kill you.
Besides, one POS amp is enough, or are you telling me that there are SET
amps that can play at normal levels without massive distortion?

OK, how about even one SET that you have sampled? It would be nice to
know the associated gear (especially speakers) and what kind of music
you listened to. Quoting from any on-the-spot notes that you made
would be nice, but you can use your memory if you'd like. It would be
nice to hear what specifically bothered you about the sound.

BTW, are you telling me that if I listened to a single SS amp, like,
say a Phase Linear amp, I'd be able to condemn the whole species?
Because that's what you seem to be saying, that one can extrapolate
from a single example.


The only SET I ever heard was one that a friend had built from a kit. This
was over 12 years ago. At the time I compare it to a 40 WPC HK730, which
easily sounded better to me.

This guy was a very big tube and LP advocate and had no use whatsoever fo
SS, and that's his perogative. It's simply not what I care about.

You seem to forget that it's about accuracy for me. Knowing that a device
is generating audible distortion automatically disqualifies it from being
considered for anything other than a doorstop/ room heater.

It's bad enough that speakers have as much distortion as they do, I don't
want another device that would effectively double it. That's why I firmly
believe that the real high end that people ought to be pursuing is
loudspeakers. Nothing, absolutely nothing makes more improvement to an
audio system than upgrading speaker performance, either by tuning the room
passively or through active means, or some combination.

The single biggest producer of distortion in an audio system is coming from
the speakers and the only methods I'm aware of for changing that are going
to come from new materials, sensors, more drivers, or auto EQ built into the
speakers, ala the NHT's that were favorably reviewed in SP a while ago.
There's no point for me to bother with anything else, since it can't improve
the overall accuracy of the system.

Show me one reasonably priced (under $1000.00) SET amp that can produce 100+
watts and not have audible distortion, and I'll consider it for a listen.

On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 21:49:02 GMT, wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 23:29:52 GMT, wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 17:12:02 GMT, wrote:

How would you know that an amp NOT YET BUILT would sound "****ty"?

Because it was an SET.

Can you give us the names of the last 10 SETs that you've listened to?

I could, but then I'd have to kill you.
Besides, one POS amp is enough, or are you telling me that there are SET
amps that can play at normal levels without massive distortion?

OK, how about even one SET that you have sampled? It would be nice to
know the associated gear (especially speakers) and what kind of music
you listened to. Quoting from any on-the-spot notes that you made
would be nice, but you can use your memory if you'd like. It would be
nice to hear what specifically bothered you about the sound.

BTW, are you telling me that if I listened to a single SS amp, like,
say a Phase Linear amp, I'd be able to condemn the whole species?
Because that's what you seem to be saying, that one can extrapolate
from a single example.


The only SET I ever heard was one that a friend had built from a kit. This
was over 12 years ago. At the time I compare it to a 40 WPC HK730, which
easily sounded better to me.

I guess, since you haven't bothered to listen to any commercial SETs,
that we can pretty much disregard your comments about how SETs sound.

This guy was a very big tube and LP advocate and had no use whatsoever fo
SS, and that's his perogative. It's simply not what I care about.

And that doesn't really even say anything about the quality of his
build, the kind of kit it was, the type of tubes that were used, etc.
In fact, you can't even say what kind of speakers were being used.

You seem to forget that it's about accuracy for me. Knowing that a device
is generating audible distortion automatically disqualifies it from being
considered for anything other than a doorstop/ room heater.

Ahhh, it's the "knowing". Sort of a placebo effect, eh?

It's bad enough that speakers have as much distortion as they do, I don't
want another device that would effectively double it. That's why I firmly
believe that the real high end that people ought to be pursuing is
loudspeakers. Nothing, absolutely nothing makes more improvement to an
audio system than upgrading speaker performance, either by tuning the room
passively or through active means, or some combination.

The single biggest producer of distortion in an audio system is coming from
the speakers and the only methods I'm aware of for changing that are going
to come from new materials, sensors, more drivers, or auto EQ built into the
speakers, ala the NHT's that were favorably reviewed in SP a while ago.
There's no point for me to bother with anything else, since it can't improve
the overall accuracy of the system.

Then you shouldn't comment on how good or bad they are, since you're
not willing to even bother evaluating them (SETs) in person.

Show me one reasonably priced (under $1000.00) SET amp that can produce 100+
watts and not have audible distortion, and I'll consider it for a listen.

Why would you need 100+ watts? What is it about those words that
defines hi-fi for you?

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 21:49:02 GMT, wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 23:29:52 GMT, wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 17:12:02 GMT, wrote:

How would you know that an amp NOT YET BUILT would sound "****ty"?

Because it was an SET.

Can you give us the names of the last 10 SETs that you've listened to?

I could, but then I'd have to kill you.
Besides, one POS amp is enough, or are you telling me that there are SET
amps that can play at normal levels without massive distortion?

OK, how about even one SET that you have sampled? It would be nice to
know the associated gear (especially speakers) and what kind of music
you listened to. Quoting from any on-the-spot notes that you made
would be nice, but you can use your memory if you'd like. It would be
nice to hear what specifically bothered you about the sound.

BTW, are you telling me that if I listened to a single SS amp, like,
say a Phase Linear amp, I'd be able to condemn the whole species?
Because that's what you seem to be saying, that one can extrapolate
from a single example.


The only SET I ever heard was one that a friend had built from a kit.
This
was over 12 years ago. At the time I compare it to a 40 WPC HK730, which
easily sounded better to me.

I guess, since you haven't bothered to listen to any commercial SETs,
that we can pretty much disregard your comments about how SETs sound.

You mean there has been a sudden upswing in the technology and theya re not
distortion generators anymore?

I'm pretty sure the people who are going to buy an SET would never be
disuaded by the fact that they are getting into double digit distortion.

This guy was a very big tube and LP advocate and had no use whatsoever fo
SS, and that's his perogative. It's simply not what I care about.

And that doesn't really even say anything about the quality of his
build, the kind of kit it was, the type of tubes that were used, etc.
In fact, you can't even say what kind of speakers were being used.


They were like mine, his own design and very good.
He's the same guy that sold me the Accustat amp.

You seem to forget that it's about accuracy for me. Knowing that a device
is generating audible distortion automatically disqualifies it from being
considered for anything other than a doorstop/ room heater.

Ahhh, it's the "knowing". Sort of a placebo effect, eh?

No, distortion in SET's is very real.

It's bad enough that speakers have as much distortion as they do, I don't
want another device that would effectively double it. That's why I firmly
believe that the real high end that people ought to be pursuing is
loudspeakers. Nothing, absolutely nothing makes more improvement to an
audio system than upgrading speaker performance, either by tuning the room
passively or through active means, or some combination.

The single biggest producer of distortion in an audio system is coming
from
the speakers and the only methods I'm aware of for changing that are going
to come from new materials, sensors, more drivers, or auto EQ built into
the
speakers, ala the NHT's that were favorably reviewed in SP a while ago.
There's no point for me to bother with anything else, since it can't
improve
the overall accuracy of the system.

Then you shouldn't comment on how good or bad they are, since you're
not willing to even bother evaluating them (SETs) in person.

The fact that they generate distortion is a known fact, I'm not allowed to
state the known?

I'm not willing to evaluate things that are unquestionably not going to
improve my system.
An SET could never drive my speakers to an acceptable level anyway.

Show me one reasonably priced (under $1000.00) SET amp that can produce
100+
watts and not have audible distortion, and I'll consider it for a listen.

Why would you need 100+ watts? What is it about those words that
defines hi-fi for you?

Live levels. You can't approach that in most rooms with less than that
unless you have horns.