A Audio, hi-fi and car audio  forum. Audio Banter

Go Back   Home » Audio Banter forum » UK Audio Newsgroups » uk.rec.audio (General Audio and Hi-Fi)
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

uk.rec.audio (General Audio and Hi-Fi) (uk.rec.audio) Discussion and exchange of hi-fi audio equipment.

"Remastered" CDs - the truth



 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old March 8th 06, 06:14 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Glenn Richards
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 397
Default "Remastered" CDs - the truth

Ok, a break from arguing about cables!

Have been having a discussion on a forum about which CDs sound better,
originals or other sets of remasters. So I did a few experiments.

Take one CD. Rip, encode to MP3 (at high quality), then run MP3Gain to
set the perceived volume to 89dB. Repeat for remasters.

Open MP3s using Nero Wave Editor, or some other piece of software that
will give you a visual representation of the track.

See what "remastering" really involves.

Check this out for butchery. This is the original track, from the 1981
CD release:

http://intranet.squirrel-net.co.uk/s...hevisitors.png

This is an earlier remaster from a 1994 box set:

http://intranet.squirrel-net.co.uk/s.../oou-tyftm.png

And this is a remaster from a 2005 box set:

http://intranet.squirrel-net.co.uk/s...ts/oou-csr.png

Note that these tracks have had ReplayGain applied. Pre-ReplayGain
they'd have been set to peak at 100%.

Listening to all 3 tracks direct from the CD (no ReplayGain) the 1994
version seems to sound better. But if you apply ReplayGain and listen to
all 3 back to back, the original sounds far better. Look at the visuals,
it isn't hard to see why.

Now this, perhaps, really is something for people to bitch about.

--
Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735
Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/

IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation
  #2 (permalink)  
Old March 8th 06, 06:21 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Don Pearce
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,412
Default "Remastered" CDs - the truth

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 19:14:54 +0000, Glenn Richards
wrote:

Ok, a break from arguing about cables!

Have been having a discussion on a forum about which CDs sound better,
originals or other sets of remasters. So I did a few experiments.

Take one CD. Rip, encode to MP3 (at high quality), then run MP3Gain to
set the perceived volume to 89dB. Repeat for remasters.

Open MP3s using Nero Wave Editor, or some other piece of software that
will give you a visual representation of the track.

See what "remastering" really involves.

Check this out for butchery. This is the original track, from the 1981
CD release:

http://intranet.squirrel-net.co.uk/s...hevisitors.png

This is an earlier remaster from a 1994 box set:

http://intranet.squirrel-net.co.uk/s.../oou-tyftm.png

And this is a remaster from a 2005 box set:

http://intranet.squirrel-net.co.uk/s...ts/oou-csr.png

Note that these tracks have had ReplayGain applied. Pre-ReplayGain
they'd have been set to peak at 100%.

Listening to all 3 tracks direct from the CD (no ReplayGain) the 1994
version seems to sound better. But if you apply ReplayGain and listen to
all 3 back to back, the original sounds far better. Look at the visuals,
it isn't hard to see why.

Now this, perhaps, really is something for people to bitch about.


And so we have been, for ages. This just isn't news.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com
  #3 (permalink)  
Old March 8th 06, 06:33 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Glenn Richards
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 397
Default "Remastered" CDs - the truth

Don Pearce wrote:

Now this, perhaps, really is something for people to bitch about.

And so we have been, for ages. This just isn't news.


Well I haven't seen it. Probably cos until recently my news access was a
little sporadic, to put it mildly.

--
Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735
Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/

IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation
  #4 (permalink)  
Old March 8th 06, 06:37 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Don Pearce
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,412
Default "Remastered" CDs - the truth

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 19:33:24 +0000, Glenn Richards
wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:

Now this, perhaps, really is something for people to bitch about.

And so we have been, for ages. This just isn't news.


Well I haven't seen it. Probably cos until recently my news access was a
little sporadic, to put it mildly.


I mean the phenomenon, not the news propagation. To see the comments
you need to frequent the pro sound groups.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com
  #5 (permalink)  
Old March 8th 06, 06:47 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Glenn Richards
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 397
Default "Remastered" CDs - the truth

Don Pearce wrote:

I mean the phenomenon, not the news propagation. To see the comments
you need to frequent the pro sound groups.


Well, until the government passes a law that there's now 36 hours in a
day rather than 24, I don't have time to frequent every newsgroup I'd
like to.

Anyway... what is it with "remasters" destroying the music like that? I
have a remaster of Dire Straits "Brothers In Arms", and it does actually
sound better than the original release. Ditto with Paul Simon's
"Graceland". But they're the exceptions.

--
Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735
Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/

IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation
  #6 (permalink)  
Old March 8th 06, 06:53 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Don Pearce
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,412
Default "Remastered" CDs - the truth

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 19:47:49 +0000, Glenn Richards
wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:

I mean the phenomenon, not the news propagation. To see the comments
you need to frequent the pro sound groups.


Well, until the government passes a law that there's now 36 hours in a
day rather than 24, I don't have time to frequent every newsgroup I'd
like to.

Anyway... what is it with "remasters" destroying the music like that? I
have a remaster of Dire Straits "Brothers In Arms", and it does actually
sound better than the original release. Ditto with Paul Simon's
"Graceland". But they're the exceptions.


There you have two bands/artists who not only have a lot of artistic
integrity, but the sheer muscle to tell the studio where to get off.

For the rest, the conception is that if reasonably loud is good, then
very loud must be better. So much of the development work in DAW
software in the past few years has concentrated on maximizing the
dynamic squash on the signal while still leaving the music
recognizable. The result is what you have highlighted, and it isn't
pretty.

Radio is the problem - the record producers figure that as you are
hopping through the channels, you will stop on the one that is the
loudest. A ridiculous concept, but it is what drives the music
industry right now.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com
  #7 (permalink)  
Old March 8th 06, 07:05 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Eiron
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 782
Default "Remastered" CDs - the truth

Glenn Richards wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:

I mean the phenomenon, not the news propagation. To see the comments
you need to frequent the pro sound groups.



Well, until the government passes a law that there's now 36 hours in a
day rather than 24, I don't have time to frequent every newsgroup I'd
like to.

Anyway... what is it with "remasters" destroying the music like that? I
have a remaster of Dire Straits "Brothers In Arms", and it does actually
sound better than the original release. Ditto with Paul Simon's
"Graceland". But they're the exceptions.


Is your copy of "Brothers in Arms" HDCD?

--
Eiron

There's something scary about stupidity made coherent - Tom Stoppard.
  #8 (permalink)  
Old March 8th 06, 07:37 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Arny Krueger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,850
Default "Remastered" CDs - the truth

"Glenn Richards" wrote in
message


Anyway... what is it with "remasters" destroying the
music like that?


Makes them play *better* in noisy cars, offices, and elevators.

I have a remaster of Dire Straits
"Brothers In Arms", and it does actually sound better
than the original release.


Might be a remix.

Ditto with Paul Simon's "Graceland". But they're the exceptions.


Buying remasters is at best a crap shoot.



  #9 (permalink)  
Old March 8th 06, 08:55 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Iain Churches
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 617
Default "Remastered" CDs - the truth


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 19:14:54 +0000, Glenn Richards
wrote:

Ok, a break from arguing about cables!

Have been having a discussion on a forum about which CDs sound better,
originals or other sets of remasters. So I did a few experiments.

Take one CD. Rip, encode to MP3 (at high quality), then run MP3Gain to
set the perceived volume to 89dB. Repeat for remasters.

Open MP3s using Nero Wave Editor, or some other piece of software that
will give you a visual representation of the track.

See what "remastering" really involves.

Check this out for butchery. This is the original track, from the 1981
CD release:

http://intranet.squirrel-net.co.uk/s...hevisitors.png

This is an earlier remaster from a 1994 box set:

http://intranet.squirrel-net.co.uk/s.../oou-tyftm.png

And this is a remaster from a 2005 box set:

http://intranet.squirrel-net.co.uk/s...ts/oou-csr.png

Note that these tracks have had ReplayGain applied. Pre-ReplayGain
they'd have been set to peak at 100%.

Listening to all 3 tracks direct from the CD (no ReplayGain) the 1994
version seems to sound better. But if you apply ReplayGain and listen to
all 3 back to back, the original sounds far better. Look at the visuals,
it isn't hard to see why.

Now this, perhaps, really is something for people to bitch about.


And so we have been, for ages. This just isn't news.

d



Glenn. I am frequently involved in CD mastering sessions,
both as a consultant, and as a recoring engineer.
The whole concept of mastering, as opposed to vinyl
mastering is totally different.

Originally, mastering was the process of transferring the
master recording to the commercial medium/format,
and the art was to make the end result as close as
possible to the original. In the case of lacquer masters
for vinyl production this was incredibly skilled work.
Any fool could make it sound different:-)

The CD mastering session, is regarded as an
extension of the recording process, so that,
with the exception of classical music there is
rarely an attempt to make the CD match the
production master. "Improvements"are usually
made. There are significant pressures to make
tracks as loud as possible, for the "benefit"
of radio and in-car listeners.

"Smiley EQ" (a rough equivalent of the old
"loudness" contour) is frequently used, plus
heavy compression and brick wall limiting.

Those who listen to the product on high end
systems have to suffer the consequencies.

Despite the fact that this matter is often discussed,
record companies receive very few complaints
about the mastering quality of their products-
far less than in the vinyl days. Most people
these days are happy with the mediocre.
This is regrettable, now that finally we
have the chance to take advantage of wide
FR, extended SNR, low distortion which
vinyl struggled so valiantly to offer.

A comparison of a recording issued on
vinyl and then re-issued on CD is often quite
an eye opener.

The only way this will be resolved, is if the
record buying public make their dissatisfaction
known to the record companies,and audio mags.
But while the majority are happy to sit on their
backsides eating their pizzas and tapping
their feet to Shania Twain on their mid-fi
systems, nothing will be done.

Iain



 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 12:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.SEO by vBSEO 3.0.0
Copyright ©2004-2025 Audio Banter.
The comments are property of their posters.