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Mains filter test results



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old March 19th 06, 10:42 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Glenn Richards
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Posts: 397
Default Mains filter test results

Ok, as promised, results of tests with various filters, power cables etc...

First test on my own system, Arcam DV-79, AVR-250, Mordaunt-Short Avant
908/905C/903S speakers, B&W ASW-1000 sub, Audio Innovations Silver
Bi-Wire speaker cable.

As promised, I've been loaned an Isotek power cable (£60) in order to
carry out these tests. I was also loaned an Isotek power distribution
block (not sure of price, I think they're about £150).

For comparison, I also used a standard IEC mains cable, and an IEC cable
with a filtered plug.

I normally have my system plugged in via a Masterplug surge protected
and RFI-filtered 4-way distribution block, £8 trade or £20 retail.

For a test track I decided to use "So Far Away", from Dire Straits'
"Brothers In Arms" CD. The version in question is the SBM remaster.

Two other people were also present. One person was unsure, the other was
a complete sceptic.

First things first, I plugged the DVD player and amplifier into an
unfiltered block. I then played the test track.

I then switched power cables on the DVD player to use the Isotek, and
played the track again. This made no difference whatsoever - which is to
be expected, as the DVD player is merely acting as a transport. I
switched cables back again and played the test track to be sure, and
indeed there was no difference.

I then switched the power cable on the amplifier to use the Isotek
cable. Immediately there was an improvement in dynamics, percussion in
particular had much more presence and depth.

I switched back to the standard IEC cable and listened again to ensure
that there was in fact a difference and that I wasn't imagining things.
The sound seemed flat after switching back.

Next I tried the standard cable with filtered plug. This again made
quite a dramatic difference to dynamics. Perhaps not quite so much as
the Isotek cable, but that may be the psychological bit coming into
play. But maybe not, as later tests showed.

I then brought filtered mains distribution blocks into play, and tried
various combinations of esoteric and generic branded filters, unfiltered
cables etc.

What I discovered (and the two other people in the room also heard quite
clearly) was that a filtered distribution block makes a difference, but
there did not appear to be any audible difference between the Isotek
block at £150 or the Masterplug block. Both have RFI filtering and surge
protection, the Isotek has a metal case, the Masterplug is plastic. But
none of us could hear a difference between them.

Also, the Isotek cable sounded exactly the same when plugged into an
unfiltered or filtered block. The generic filtered cable sounded
slightly better when connected via an RFI filtered block.

The combination of generic filtered cable and Masterplug filtered block
sounded as good as using the £60 Isotek cable. Both sounded
significantly better than using an unfiltered cable.

So on this basis I would recommend the Masterplug filtered 4-way block,
£8 from CPC or anything up to £20 retail, along with a filtered plug on
the IEC cable (costs about £3.50 from CPC, not sure about retail).

However, the next part of the test was interesting. We then went around
to a friend's house, who has a similar setup to mine - Arcam CD73, A90,
B&W DM603 speakers, QED speaker cables (not sure which one, but nice and
thick).

We then performed the same series of tests, and obtained a similar set
of results. However, the differences on his system weren't anywhere near
as dramatic as on mine.

So we then shut down and unplugged his PC, in the next room but on the
same ring main, and repeated the experiments.

This time the differences were negligibly small. We heard a tiny
improvement when using either the Isotek or generic filtered cables, and
a similar improvement when using the filtered mains blocks. This time we
didn't hear any difference between a filtered and unfiltered IEC cable
when used with a filtered block.

We plugged the PC back in and fired it up again, and repeated several
times for consistency. Once again the results with filtered mains were
much more noticeable when the PC was turned on.

So, in summary:

If you don't have any computer equipment (or anything with switch-mode
power supplies) on the same ring main as your hi-fi, buy a Masterplug
RFI filtered 4-way strip, if for no other reason than it incorporates
surge protection, so will protect your kit against voltage spikes.
(Believe me, I've seen quite a few PSUs fried by this type of thing.) If
it makes it sound better then that's a bonus. If it doesn't, well, at
least you know your equipment is protected.

If you have one or two PCs in the house that aren't left on all the
time, get the RFI filtered block. Try using a filtered IEC cable and
listen, if it makes a difference then keep using it.

If you've got a miniature version of Docklands Telehouse in your attic
or spare room, stick an RFI filtered 4-way block in, then use filtered
power cables from that. It's also probably worth putting filtered cables
on your PCs and other items with SMPSUs, as then you'll tackle the
problem at source (and additionally protect *that* expensive equipment
from spikes).

In the meantime, I appear to have "won" an Isotek power cable worth £60.
They want the distribution block back, but they've said I can hang on to
the power cable for now. Might try opening up the plug and see exactly
what type of filter they've put in...

--
Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735
Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/

IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation
  #2 (permalink)  
Old March 19th 06, 11:51 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Roderick Stewart
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Posts: 235
Default Mains filter test results

In article , Glenn Richards wrote:
[...]
I then switched the power cable on the amplifier to use the Isotek
cable. Immediately there was an improvement in dynamics, percussion in
particular had much more presence and depth.

I switched back to the standard IEC cable and listened again to ensure
that there was in fact a difference and that I wasn't imagining things.
The sound seemed flat after switching back.

Next I tried the standard cable with filtered plug. This again made
quite a dramatic difference to dynamics. Perhaps not quite so much as
the Isotek cable, but that may be the psychological bit coming into
play. But maybe not, as later tests showed.

[...]

Did you measure anything objectively with instruments? Anything at all?
Doesn't it ever cross your mind how remarkable it is that after the mains
current has travelled all those miles underground and overhead, the last
few feet can make such a difference? Are you sure you're really hearing
what you think you're hearing?

Rod.

  #3 (permalink)  
Old March 20th 06, 12:27 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Laurence Payne
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Posts: 522
Default Mains filter test results

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 00:51:28 -0000, Roderick Stewart
wrote:

Did you measure anything objectively with instruments? Anything at all?
Doesn't it ever cross your mind how remarkable it is that after the mains
current has travelled all those miles underground and overhead, the last
few feet can make such a difference? Are you sure you're really hearing
what you think you're hearing?


He's suggesting that a filtered power lead can reduce interference
from an adjacent computer. Not that it's improving the mains supply
as such.
  #4 (permalink)  
Old March 20th 06, 09:50 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Glenn Richards
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Posts: 397
Default Mains filter test results

Laurence Payne wrote:

He's suggesting that a filtered power lead can reduce interference
from an adjacent computer. Not that it's improving the mains supply
as such.


The other thing we noticed, that when I re-read my post I seem to have
omitted (I'm sure I remember typing this bit, obviously not though)...

Whilst doing the second part of the test round at a friend's house, we
also tried putting the filtered cables onto his PC instead of the hi-fi.
The results from this were the same as when the PC was turned off.

--
Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735
Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/

IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation
  #5 (permalink)  
Old March 20th 06, 11:02 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Roderick Stewart
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Posts: 235
Default Mains filter test results

In article , Laurence Payne
wrote:
Did you measure anything objectively with instruments? Anything at all?
Doesn't it ever cross your mind how remarkable it is that after the mains
current has travelled all those miles underground and overhead, the last
few feet can make such a difference? Are you sure you're really hearing
what you think you're hearing?


He's suggesting that a filtered power lead can reduce interference
from an adjacent computer. Not that it's improving the mains supply
as such.


Then why does he use language like this.....?

"I then switched the power cable on the amplifier to use the Isotek
cable. Immediately there was an improvement in dynamics, percussion in
particular had much more presence and depth".

What he seems to be talking about is a change in the sound quality. He
doesn't mention the sudden absence of "interference", nor what he thinks the
interference sounded like before the substitution.

Since he attributes the interference to the effects of switch-mode power
supplies in other equipment on the mains wiring, it would be interesting to
know if any of the audio equipment has this type of power supply, which I
believe is quite common. If so, is there a theory as to why the
"interference" only comes from a PC in the next room, but not from the audio
equipmenmt itself?

Rod.

  #6 (permalink)  
Old March 20th 06, 11:44 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Laurence Payne
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Posts: 522
Default Mains filter test results

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:02:50 -0000, Roderick Stewart
wrote:

He's suggesting that a filtered power lead can reduce interference
from an adjacent computer. Not that it's improving the mains supply
as such.


Then why does he use language like this.....?

"I then switched the power cable on the amplifier to use the Isotek
cable. Immediately there was an improvement in dynamics, percussion in
particular had much more presence and depth".

What he seems to be talking about is a change in the sound quality. He
doesn't mention the sudden absence of "interference", nor what he thinks the
interference sounded like before the substitution.

Since he attributes the interference to the effects of switch-mode power
supplies in other equipment on the mains wiring, it would be interesting to
know if any of the audio equipment has this type of power supply, which I
believe is quite common. If so, is there a theory as to why the
"interference" only comes from a PC in the next room, but not from the audio
equipmenmt itself?


Indeed, his logic is questionable. But you criticised him using the
"all the way back to the power station" argument. That wasn't
relevant to his claim of removing local power corruption.
  #7 (permalink)  
Old March 20th 06, 09:22 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Glenn Richards
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Posts: 397
Default Mains filter test results

Roderick Stewart wrote:

"I then switched the power cable on the amplifier to use the Isotek
cable. Immediately there was an improvement in dynamics, percussion in
particular had much more presence and depth".


Which would make perfect sense, as by taking out RF interference what
you've done is lowered the noise floor. You may not be able to hear RF,
but if your amplifier is trying to reproduce it then it's increased the
noise floor, which will result in the dynamic range of the system being
reduced.

--
Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735
Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/

IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation
  #8 (permalink)  
Old March 20th 06, 11:03 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Roderick Stewart
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 235
Default Mains filter test results

In article , Glenn Richards wrote:
"I then switched the power cable on the amplifier to use the Isotek
cable. Immediately there was an improvement in dynamics, percussion in
particular had much more presence and depth".


Which would make perfect sense, as by taking out RF interference what
you've done is lowered the noise floor. You may not be able to hear RF,
but if your amplifier is trying to reproduce it then it's increased the
noise floor, which will result in the dynamic range of the system being
reduced.


And the increase in "presence and depth" on percussion was the only thing
that was noticed?

Don't you think that if the noise floor was the only thing that the RF
interference caused (which seems a trifle unlikely if it really was RF
interference), it would simply be audible as noise? Why the need to listen
to music subjectively and write about it in flowery language? Why not just
measure the noise?

Rod.

  #9 (permalink)  
Old March 21st 06, 08:47 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
tony sayer
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Posts: 2,042
Default Mains filter test results

In article , Glenn Richards
writes
Roderick Stewart wrote:

"I then switched the power cable on the amplifier to use the Isotek
cable. Immediately there was an improvement in dynamics, percussion in
particular had much more presence and depth".


Which would make perfect sense, as by taking out RF interference what
you've done is lowered the noise floor. You may not be able to hear RF,
but if your amplifier is trying to reproduce it then it's increased the
noise floor, which will result in the dynamic range of the system being
reduced.


Glenn,

do you live somewhere like Brookmans Park or Holme Moss?. Never known a
bloke to be troubled by so much RF!......
--
Tony Sayer

  #10 (permalink)  
Old March 21st 06, 07:47 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Jim Lesurf
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Posts: 3,051
Default Mains filter test results

In article , Glenn Richards
wrote:
Roderick Stewart wrote:


"I then switched the power cable on the amplifier to use the Isotek
cable. Immediately there was an improvement in dynamics, percussion in
particular had much more presence and depth".


Which would make perfect sense, as by taking out RF interference what
you've done is lowered the noise floor. You may not be able to hear RF,
but if your amplifier is trying to reproduce it then it's increased the
noise floor, which will result in the dynamic range of the system being
reduced.


You give no explanation of how the amplifier would be "trying to reproduce"
the RF and this then leads to it "inceasing the noise floor".

Thus you make a speculation, but give no mechanism.

Nor did you report any measurement or period of listening that showed that
you could detect a change in the audible noise floor. If this was occuring,
it would show most clearly when you were not playing any music, and the
effect would then be obvious if it was occurring.

Thus you did some 'tests' but obtained no evidence that the effect your
speculation assumes actually occurred.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html
 




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