Is the market winding down SACD and DVD-A??
 

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:47:01 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:00:52 +0000, Eiron wrote:

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:09:44 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:

I am glad that you regard the classical market as quality,
Andy. When I go to a classical mastering session, I can
reckon to be in and out in a couple of hours. For a pop
session one needs to take a sleeping bag:-)


Perhaps because you simply have to *record* a classical orchestra?
With pop, you have to transform what they do into something vaguely
reminiscent of music - noise gates, compresors, limiters, pitch
shifters, multiple track/take splicing etc etc etc. :-(

But Iain has written many times recently that he doesn't just record
the sound of a classical performance. He's an artist and chooses his
microphones carefully to give the most musical frequency response and
distortion. The result is even better than the real thing.

Someone who just wanted to accurately record an orchestra wouldn't have
written:
...and just a touch of reverb to bring it to perfection.

Quite so. :-)

Churches is indeed an artist, and his preferred medium appears to be
liquid biological waste.........

As opposed to the knobbly, equine waste from a (small) few 'wannabee pros'
who have been *larging it* for a while in here?

Are there some wanabee pros? Not me, buddy, wouldn't touch that
industry with a bargepole - look at the creatures it throws up! :-)
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

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Is the market winding down SACD and DVD-A??
 

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:07:34 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:00:52 +0000, Eiron wrote:

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:09:44 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:

I am glad that you regard the classical market as quality,
Andy. When I go to a classical mastering session, I can
reckon to be in and out in a couple of hours. For a pop
session one needs to take a sleeping bag:-)


Perhaps because you simply have to *record* a classical orchestra?
With pop, you have to transform what they do into something vaguely
reminiscent of music - noise gates, compresors, limiters, pitch
shifters, multiple track/take splicing etc etc etc. :-(

But Iain has written many times recently that he doesn't just record
the sound of a classical performance. He's an artist and chooses his
microphones carefully to give the most musical frequency response and
distortion. The result is even better than the real thing.

Someone who just wanted to accurately record an orchestra wouldn't have
written:
...and just a touch of reverb to bring it to perfection.

Quite so. :-)

Churches is indeed an artist, and his preferred medium appears to be
liquid biological waste.........

Stewart. I note that you seem to have no option but to seek refuge
in obscenity when you have nothing of substance to say, which in
the case of classical music and recording is most of the time:-)

Typical lies from you, as we have come to expect. Of course, now that
several people have exposed the reality of your dishonesty in your
recording career, which has never had anything to do with capturing
the actual sound of the performance, but 'sweetening' it in some
random manner according to the fashion of the time, you resort to
personal attacks, as ever.

I have posted the catalogue number of the award winning
Christopher Hogwood; William Byrd CD set, recorded
with co-incidental pairs. Now it is time for you to show your
claimed expertise. Link or catalogue number please.

PGM Recordings PGM111, the Bach St John Passion, recorded in Trinity
Cathedral, Portland, Oregon.

A single Schoeps KFM-6 'sphere' microphone was used for the main
stereo pickup, with a pair of Schoeps MK-41 hypercardioids added over
the choir in a near-coincident array, mixed 7.7dB below the main pair
and delayed 16msec to retain the precedence effect of the main pair
and ensure phase coherence of the entire performance. Recorded on a
Nagra-D with Prism AD-1 converters. One of the cleanest and most
realistic recordings in my possession.

It shows the dedication of PGM to *realistic* reproduction that this
CD even has the recommended playback levels printed on the discs of
this 2-disc set.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

Is the market winding down SACD and DVD-A??
 

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...

PGM Recordings PGM111, the Bach St John Passion, recorded in Trinity
Cathedral, Portland, Oregon.

A single Schoeps KFM-6 'sphere' microphone was used for the main
stereo pickup, with a pair of Schoeps MK-41 hypercardioids added over
the choir in a near-coincident array, mixed 7.7dB below the main pair
and delayed 16msec to retain the precedence effect of the main pair
and ensure phase coherence of the entire performance. Recorded on a
Nagra-D with Prism AD-1 converters. One of the cleanest and most
realistic recordings in my possession.

It shows the dedication of PGM to *realistic* reproduction that this
CD even has the recommended playback levels printed on the discs of
this 2-disc set.
--


So this is your recording? Do you have a sleeve credit?
I will order it.

Iain

Is the market winding down SACD and DVD-A??
 

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:47:01 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:00:52 +0000, Eiron wrote:

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:09:44 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:

I am glad that you regard the classical market as quality,
Andy. When I go to a classical mastering session, I can
reckon to be in and out in a couple of hours. For a pop
session one needs to take a sleeping bag:-)


Perhaps because you simply have to *record* a classical orchestra?
With pop, you have to transform what they do into something vaguely
reminiscent of music - noise gates, compresors, limiters, pitch
shifters, multiple track/take splicing etc etc etc. :-(

But Iain has written many times recently that he doesn't just record
the sound of a classical performance. He's an artist and chooses his
microphones carefully to give the most musical frequency response and
distortion. The result is even better than the real thing.

Someone who just wanted to accurately record an orchestra wouldn't have
written:
...and just a touch of reverb to bring it to perfection.

Quite so. :-)

Churches is indeed an artist, and his preferred medium appears to be
liquid biological waste.........

As opposed to the knobbly, equine waste from a (small) few 'wannabee pros'
who have been *larging it* for a while in here?

Are there some wanabee pros? Not me, buddy, wouldn't touch that
industry with a bargepole - look at the creatures it throws up! :-)

Only 1% percent of applicants are accepted even for initial training
I have no doubt you would be among the 99% :-)

I am sure you are much more suited as a postal operative.
Enjoy it:-)

Iain

Is the market winding down SACD and DVD-A??
 

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:07:34 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:


Stewart. I note that you seem to have no option but to seek refuge
in obscenity when you have nothing of substance to say, which in
the case of classical music and recording is most of the time:-)

Typical lies from you, as we have come to expect. Of course, now that
several people have exposed the reality of your dishonesty in your
recording career, which has never had anything to do with capturing
the actual sound of the performance, but 'sweetening' it in some
random manner according to the fashion of the time, you resort to
personal attacks, as ever.

To understand the basics of recording, you must realise that
there are a large variety of techniques depending on
the type of recording being made. These range from stereo pairs
which we have discussed, to multi-microphone multi-track sessions.
If you cannot grasp this simple fact, then I am wasting my time
talking to you.

I smiled at your "sweetening in a random manner"
You really do not have a clue, do you?

My dealer has ordered the PGM disc.
I look forward to hearing your recording.

Cordially,
Iain

Is the market winding down SACD and DVD-A??
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:47:01 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:



As opposed to the knobbly, equine waste from a (small) few 'wannabee
pros'
who have been *larging it* for a while in here?

Are there some wanabee pros? Not me, buddy, wouldn't touch that
industry with a bargepole - look at the creatures it throws up! :-)

Only 1% percent of applicants are accepted even for initial training
I have no doubt you would be among the 99% :-)

I am sure you are much more suited as a postal operative.
Enjoy it:-)


Iain, I think you are being a little unkind to our friend Pinky - he goes
off every day to spend *all day* cooped up doing summat that would have me
out of my skull with boredom before lunchtime, Day 1 and he yet always
manages to take time to fit us into his hectic schedule and spray us with
invective while he's having his Weety Pops....


:-)

Is the market winding down SACD and DVD-A??
 

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:47:01 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:



As opposed to the knobbly, equine waste from a (small) few 'wannabee pros'
who have been *larging it* for a while in here?

Are there some wanabee pros? Not me, buddy, wouldn't touch that
industry with a bargepole - look at the creatures it throws up! :-)



Polite, knowledgable, well-spoken, well-mannered and considerate?

Yes, I can see how this possibly wouldn't *quite* do you....


;-)

Is the market winding down SACD and DVD-A??
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...


The ability to lock between a video master and audio multitracks etc was
well before either Betamax, VHS or U-Matic. It wasn't long after the first
electronic editing VTRs - so perhaps the late '60s. First electronic
dubbing suites used Sony or Shibaden open reel video recorders with a dub
off the 2" master with TC on the audio track for synchronisation.

Indeed, Thames TV had an even earlier version (Medway) which didn't use
time code but a simpler version with something like a 4 minute window to
lock to. The sound recorder was a Telefunken multitrack. There was still
one there used as a doorstop when I joined them in '78.;-)

Yes. I have just had an e-mail from an ex-BBC pal , who reads this
group but *never* posts (I wonder why? :-) He referred to those
old systems affectionately as "semi-sync" :-)

He told me that Leevers Rick, Clark, and also EMI Laboratories at Hayes
were working on syncronisers. The EMI device was a built and working
prototype, but like their ill-fated compander, which would have pre-empted
Dolby A, it never came to fruition.

You and John are about the same age. He was a (senior?) sound
supervisor at BH for years and then a lecturer at the training centre
(Wood Norton was it called?) Did you go there, Dave?
He may remember you.

The BBC had SYPHER suites. Synchronous Post dubbing with Helical scan and
Eight track Recorder. Those used the Studer TLS system with (at the start)
a Sony open reel video recorder and a Studer 8 track audio machine.
Because of original track, mix down track, TC and guard band, you only had
4 tracks to play with. Of course they later became 16 and 24 tracks. And
the 'master' video machine became a U Matic or whatever.

My experiences with synchronisers goes back only to 1985, when I
freelanced (moonlighting) for a video post production company who
needed a music mixer.

I had used Studer A80's with TLS locked together, but had
never worked to picture, so it was a new experience. They had three
suites with Q-Lock. I borrowed a keyboard so that I could memorise
the routines - you become very fast very quickly. The lock time was
pretty long. One of the young guys working there said: "If I stay
twenty years in this job, two of them will have been spent in preroll!"

Later the Q Locks were replaced by Audio Kinetics "Eclipse" Editor. This
was my first experience of "tight lock" to sub-frame accuracy. The prof
CD players read 75fps, and so could cue and start with accuracy of
one-third of a frame. useful for sync of FX, footsteps etc.

I was perhaps at the forefront of demanding the original format machine in
the dubbing suite so I could access the field tapes for repairs to the
audio in those days. Fine now when it's all digitised. But in those days
all you got was the 'picture' editor's choice. And of course the layback
of the audio could them be my sole responsibility. ;-)

A key man:-))

In the places where I worked it was standard practice for the editor
to have access to original material, which he re-synced to the guide track
audio used by the video editor. Later, video editing suites could supply
an EDL on diskette, so the work was pretty simple.

In broadcast, programmes seem to start at ten hrs, i.e. 10.00.00.00.
In video post, for TH spots, and corporate programmes, the first prog
starts at 2 mins ( Colour bars and 1kHz to 1.45) It was rather
disconcerting when supplying material for satelite broadcasting,
to find that they required an an audio to video offset!!


Do you have experience with D1 Dave? Most Quantel facilities seem to
have them with Harry, Henry etc etc. My only experiences with D1 have
been audio layback. But DigiBeta is the standard workhorse for
transmission and also in audio for video post..

I've not really used D1. DigiBeta gives you 4 tracks of CD quality so
that's fine for me.;-)

Martti tells me that D format is the only truly lossless, full density,
picture format. As far as audio goes, it had no advantages over DigiBeta.

Iain

Is the market winding down SACD and DVD-A??
 

"Bill Taylor" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:07:34 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:



I have posted the catalogue number of the award winning
Christopher Hogwood; William Byrd CD set, recorded
with co-incidental pairs. Now it is time for you to show your
claimed expertise. Link or catalogue number please.

Iain

Was that My Ladye Nevells Booke, originally released on L'oiseau Lyre
about 1976 by any chance?

Bill

Yes Bill. That's it. The vinyl release was on six discs, a boxed
set with a magnificient repro of the original "booke". The
four (later three) CD box is still available.

It was recorded, like many of the L'Oiseau Lyre productions at
Finchocks Manor in Goudhurst in Kent, the home of the
Adlam/Burnett collection of early keyboard instruments.
It was a splendid location.

Iain

Is the market winding down SACD and DVD-A??
 

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:04:00 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:


"Bill Taylor" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:07:34 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:



I have posted the catalogue number of the award winning
Christopher Hogwood; William Byrd CD set, recorded
with co-incidental pairs. Now it is time for you to show your
claimed expertise. Link or catalogue number please.

Iain

Was that My Ladye Nevells Booke, originally released on L'oiseau Lyre
about 1976 by any chance?

Bill

Yes Bill. That's it. The vinyl release was on six discs, a boxed
set with a magnificient repro of the original "booke". The
four (later three) CD box is still available.

It was recorded, like many of the L'Oiseau Lyre productions at
Finchocks Manor in Goudhurst in Kent, the home of the
Adlam/Burnett collection of early keyboard instruments.
It was a splendid location.

Iain


That recording left a strong impression on me. I bought the set of 4
LPs shortly after they were issued, with high expectations,
Christopher Hogwood playing and L'Oiseau Lyre having a good reputation
for recorded sound quality. At the time I was badly paid and this set
was expensive.

Unfortunately the sound quality is so unpleasant that the records are
impossible to listen to for more than a few minutes at a time. The
sound is overbearing, with no sense of a room acoustic. Presumably the
coincidental pairs were placed inside the virginals to give that "head
in the instrument" effect. Normally I would have bought the CD reissue
of a recording like this, but I gave that one a wide berth.

I see that the recording engineers were John Dunkerley and Philip Wade
as well as yourself, so the responsiblity would not have been yours
alone.

Bill