Is the market winding down SACD and DVD-A??
 

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:38:49 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
.. .

Recorded on a
Nagra-D with Prism AD-1 converters. One of the cleanest and most
realistic recordings in my possession.


Excellent! So you have learned something then in our exchanges.
The last time I mentioned the Nagra D you thought it was a typo:-)

Another typical Churches lie - I have been aware of the Nagra-D since
before it was launched.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

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Is the market winding down SACD and DVD-A??
 

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:38:49 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:

Excellent! So you have learned something then in our exchanges.
The last time I mentioned the Nagra D you thought it was a typo:-)

Another typical Churches lie - I have been aware of the Nagra-D since
before it was launched.
--

Do a little search - you will find what I say is correct.
You asked me if the suffix D was a typo.

I am starting to notice a pattern in your posting, which appeared
when you replied to Patrick and others. It was clear that you were
envious of their success in audio, and in running there own firms, while
you were a "wannabee something in audio" clock-watching salaried man
in the mailroom of a bank.

Tant pis!

It's 0930. Breakfast is served:-)
Adieu.

Iainm

Is the market winding down SACD and DVD-A??
 

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:38:11 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:07:34 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:


To understand the basics of recording, you must realise that
there are a large variety of techniques depending on
the type of recording being made.

Indeed yes, there are realistic recordings, and then there's what you
do.

As I understand it, you have never heard any of my work.
So your "opinion" is worthless.


These range from stereo pairs
which we have discussed, to multi-microphone multi-track sessions.
If you cannot grasp this simple fact, then I am wasting my time
talking to you.

What I grasp is that these pastiches will never sound like a live
orchestra.

Then you "grasp" nothing! 95% of recording has nothing at
all to do with a "live orchestra", but is put together track by
track. Is that a concept too difficult for you to comprehend?

Your claim to be an audiophile combined with your lack
of understanding of what recording is all about is something
of an enigma.


Iain

Is the market winding down SACD and DVD-A??
 

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...

Aren't you ashamed of all the lies you tell? Aren't you ashamed of how
you manipulate the original sound to produce a 'commercial' recording?

No lies. No manipulation.
What is "original sound"? - with the exception of small ensemble
and straight stereo productions, the vast majority of recordings
are built up layer by layer, so there is no "original sound"
Is that still too difficult for you to comprehend?

Iain

Is the market winding down SACD and DVD-A??
 

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:51:10 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:


It shows the dedication of PGM to *realistic* reproduction that this
CD even has the recommended playback levels printed on the discs of
this 2-disc set.
--

So this is your recording? Do you have a sleeve credit?
I will order it.

Ah, I misunderstood. Are *you* claiming to have been involved in some
well-recorded music albums?

Yes indeed:-) A large number. I once posted a long list of catalogue
numbers for you. Your poor (or is it selective?) memory let's you
down:-) I have a full diary, a scrap book of good reviews, a
healthy royalty account and awards on the walls of the
conference rooms of several major labels. So far this year
I have been in Brazil, Prague,Vienna and Stockholm.
Our team is offered more work than we can take on.
Summer is coming, I take a three month paid holiday.
One could not ask for mo-)

I should have the copyright info and label copy of the PGM
recording within 24 hrs. I shall look for your name there.

Meanwhile, I know there are several people interested in hearing
your "far field" recording, and the details of when and how it was
made. I am sure you will not let us down.

Iain

Is the market winding down SACD and DVD-A??
 

In article , Iain Churches
wrote:

"Bill Taylor" wrote in message


1. Why did Bill, who was then an impecunious student spend all that
money on a very expensive boxed set without listening to it first.
If he was looking for the acoustic of Royce Hall, or the Sofiensaal
then this intimate recording was definitely not for him.

Impecunious I was, but I wasn't a student at that time, just very
badly paid. AFAIK records weren't and aren't sold to the general
public on a sale or return basis. It was a special order, not the sort
of thing that the average provincial record shop keeps in stock, so
listening to it first was not an option, and of course I had seen the
glowing reviews, so it did not cross my mind that the sound would be
so little to my taste.

[snip]


But you bought a very expensive boxed set without hearing it first.
Wasn't that a little unwise? A dealer buys sale or return and makes a
40% mark-up.

I can't recall any of the LP shops I used at the time offering a 'try and
return if you don't like it' service. Indeed, I would have avoided any such
shops for fear of buying an LP that had been previously played with a
knitting needle. I am therefore not clear what you think Bill should have
done as a routine method for "hearing it first"...

Also, dealers at the time used to find that actually returning LPs to the
makers and getting their money back was quite difficult. This was reported
in magazine articles in the 1970s/80s.

I did for a while use a local LP library. However this only worked as I
knew one of the librarians, so could hear LPs before they'd been subject to
the knitting needles...

Of course, there was the Wilson LP library, and also the Squires Gate one
(still going, and now offerring CDs and DVDs). But these cost money and
require you to pay and take items on a regular basis, so I'd suspect not an
option for those who are counting the cash.

This seems to be a basic problem in the UK. People complain but not in
the right direction:-) If you are not happy, then tell the
manufacturer/dealer, not your mates - they can do nothing about it.

OK. I've just bought a 'special 2-disc edition' of 'To Kill a Mockingbird'.
The adverts and the pack state it is "anamorphic widescreen". It isn't. The
picture is letterboxed into 4:3. I have no idea who to contact at
Universal, and no confidence that they'd then be able to supply a disc that
*is* as they state on the package.

So my plan is simply to return it to the place I purchased it from, and get
my money back. It would be easier for me to complain to Trading Standards
that to Universal, but should I bother? In the UK my 'contract' is with the
seller, not the maker. FWIW in similar previous cases the people I
purchased the disc from have promptly given a refund with no quibbles.

TBH I am unclear what you think Bill could have done *before* buying the
LPs that would have been practical for him. I also used to buy LPs, and
then CDs, etc, often without having 'tried them first', and accept that
some turn out to be a clinker. So far as I am concerned, if they have a
production (e.g. pressing) fault or have been sold by misrepresentation
then I can get my money back, but I don't expect a shop to take it back
'because I've decided I don't like it very much'... I doubt many record
shops in the 70s/80s would have done so.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Is the market winding down SACD and DVD-A??
 

In article , Roderick
Stewart wrote:
In article , Bill Taylor
wrote:
AFAIR from a course that I did sometime ago DigiBeta doesn't record
the raw digits, it does a discrete cosine transform on the picture
information and then records the result of that transform. Most of the
time this is completely reversible and so lossless, but on very
testing material the higher orders can be thrown away, so some very
slight loss could be experienced. In reality the format is pretty much
lossless. Multiple passes have been done experimentally and the
perceptible degradation is either very low or none existent, unlike
analogue formats or some of the more highly compressed formats that
are used these days.

I've only had the sales talk, not a technical course, so I never got a
completely satisfactory explanation for how it is possible for a digital
bit rate compression system with any loss whatsoever to allow a signal
to pass through an unlimited number of times without cumulative losses
showing after a few dozen passes. Yet they showed us some special
effects that required several hundred passes, and split screen displays
of severalhundredth generation against the original, with no visible
degradation at all, and they assured us that none was measureable.

I can't comment specifically on DigiBeta as I know nowt about it.

However it is possible in principle for what you describe to be the case.
This would be if the data thinning always used exactly the same rulesand
the data was otherwise unmodified between 'passes'. The point being that
the first data thinning removes the data that is 'unwanted'. Subsequent
thinnings would find that the data they'd remove is already absent, so they
are happy with that and pass what remains... :-)

Interpreting what the salesman was able to tell us, I think the system
must only be applying bit rate compression to those parts of the signal
that go above a "threshold" value coresponding to the maximum rate that
it can handle (50 Mb/s?), but passing it untouched the rest of the time.
This would result in the second and subsequent passes being passed
unchanged because they had already been compressed once. Even that "very
testing material" would only suffer whatever losses resulted from the
first pass, and could then be copied an infinite number of times without
becoming any worse. Perhaps somebody who knows more about it could
confirm this?

In principle, yes, the above would be a consequence of what I describe
above. The thinning works out what features have the 'priority' required to
not be thinned. On the later passes it then finds that this turns out to be
*all* the features in the data set, and nothing remains to be removed as it
has already gone.

If, however, the data is changed (by noise, distortion, or deliberate
alteration) between successive thinnings then the above may not apply. It
also assumes that identical 'rules' are applied for every thinning.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Is the market winding down SACD and DVD-A??
 

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:40:25 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:46:25 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:


Iain, I think you are being a little unkind to our friend Pinky - he
goes
off every day to spend *all day* cooped up doing summat that would have
me
out of my skull with boredom before lunchtime, Day 1 and he yet always
manages to take time to fit us into his hectic schedule and spray us
with
invective while he's having his Weety Pops....

Shows how much you clowns understand about what I do. Boredom is never
an issue.............



Well then you are very lucky - the only other person who says he doesn't
get
bored is my mate Shiny Nigel, who works in a hifi (telly) shop and seems
to
have no trouble floating about doing bugger-all for hours on end!! (Would
drive me bananas in no time, never mind the Chavs who frequent that shop
wanting car radio kit!!)



Anything's got to be better than hiding in darkest Finland, counting
the suicides and waiting for the sun to return.


Lovely sun here today! :-)

Yes, it was - but it looks like that was Spring! :-(



What with yer mate Frooty Loops turning up again (?) and the weather here
first thing this morn, I thought that was summer also!!

Is the market winding down SACD and DVD-A??
 

In article ,
Bill Taylor wrote:
AFAIR from a course that I did sometime ago DigiBeta doesn't record
the raw digits, it does a discrete cosine transform on the picture
information and then records the result of that transform. Most of the
time this is completely reversible and so lossless, but on very
testing material the higher orders can be thrown away, so some very
slight loss could be experienced. In reality the format is pretty much
lossless. Multiple passes have been done experimentally and the
perceptible degradation is either very low or none existent, unlike
analogue formats or some of the more highly compressed formats that
are used these days.

You can copy tone and bars till the cows come home and not see any
artifacts. If you consider the previous Beta SP analogue - quite an
achievement.

You can see generation results with actual pictures eventually - but only
after far more than you'd reach with normal post production - even in a
linear system.

It's a brilliant format as a standard - rather like CD. ;-)

--
*What do little birdies see when they get knocked unconscious? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Is the market winding down SACD and DVD-A??
 

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
Thames, which had its own engineering research department, produced a
1/4" machine which could be used as a master for VTRs to lock to in
PAL colour locked mode. Used the Nagra FM centre track system for the
time code. The recorders were made to spec by Levers Rich and were
twin capstan drive Prolines which were the standard 1/4" machines used
at Thames at the time and were actually Clark Technique designs which
Levers bought the rights to.

Yes I know about those. Did you actually use one? They have a poor
reputation. Someone who was dead keen to buy my LR E200 asked
nervously "It's not a ProLine is it?" It is not, and it is definately is
not for sale either:-)

Pretty well all the Thames TV studio machines were Prolines. Maybe
something like 50 or so spread across the sites. But only perhaps a dozen
being the centre track TC versions.

But they were definitely high maintence machines. ;-)

But in good condition were good for TV studio use. Extremely fast start
for cueing in stuff and easy for quick editing. I'd say the best machine
I've ever used as a gram op doing 'live' TV or for the same use in
dubbing. For mastering work many of the parameters of that don't apply.

Thames ordered something like 20 Nagra T-Audios when they came out for
their ability to chase lock and would have replaced the centre track
Prolines. The first half dozen simply didn't do what they said on the box
and were hopeless for studio work - we needed a one box solution for both
simple play in, high quality recording as well as synchronisation.

Eventually the Studer A 812 did this some 10 years down the line - but
still wasn't as good a machine for playing in 'tight' cues.

--
*Middle age is when work is a lot less fun - and fun a lot more work.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.