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Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
Sampling techniques such as PCM digital audio accurately maintain all phase relationships within the frequency band of interest, they do not operate only in the frequency domain. Yes, I know that, its was the additional transform that I was refering too. -- Nick |
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"Nick Gorham" wrote in message ... Its mainly through playing with RIAA stages that I have become aware of the importance of maintaining phase as well as frequency response, but maybe this is old hat for you pro's. -- Nick Hi Nick. The replay phase is specified for RIAA but you will seldom see it quoted in hi-fi literature. It is of course the inverse of the cutter head. phase response. It is quoted in data from Neumann, Lyrec, Decca, Westrex etc, and you can also find it, together with tabulated gain vs frequency in Morgan Jones pp355. Iain |
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In article , Don Pearce
wrote: On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:07:23 +0100, Nick Gorham wrote: What I notice a lot and Jim may be able to explain this, is the HiFi mags seem to often do FR plots using what they describe as a convolved inpulse analysis, I have a theory what this means, but it would be nice to have some references (ok, so I guess I could just look it up). TBH I am often not quite sure *what* magazine reviewers mean when they make statements like the above. All to often their results, and their interpretation of them, seem rather odd... :-) e,.g in this context I am weary of 'spectra' of broadband noise that have the vertical axis labled as a 'voltage' or a 'power' when it should be in units like 'power/Hz', and they give no info on how many samples, etc, were used to work out the spectrum. Thus making the plotted values meaningless... Its mainly through playing with RIAA stages that I have become aware of the importance of maintaining phase as well as frequency response, but maybe this is old hat for you pro's. The thing about impulse analysis is that it results in something that is visually very easy to understand. The use of 'impulses' to excite systems is, conceptually, a neat one. The snag is that it may require either very high peak powers, or 'infinite' peak powers! As such, it can lead to problems with nonlinear systems since the output then may not be what you'd have found using signals with a much lower peak level. Hence you may find that a frequency response obtained this way isn't the same as you'd got from a swept sinewave, or quasi-random 'wideband noise'. IIRC for this reason, although adopted enthusiastically at first for loudspeaker analysis, it is now used with care. Ditto for MLSSA which can give similar problems if not used with due care. The key point is that the 'impulse' has a predefined spectrum. i.e. it can be used to inject, 'symultaneously' a range of frequencies with a defined set of amplitudes and phases. You can then use the result to determine the entire spectral response. Convolution is just a mathematical trick for subjecting a signal to some sort of fequency-dependent transformation. Roughly speaking, convolution of a signal and a response in the time domain is equivalent to FFTing them both into the frequency domain, multiplying them together point-by-point and then re-FFTing them back to the time domain. More generally, convolution means 'scanning' one pattern across another and working out the result as a function of the 'offet' between them. The resulting pattern is the 'convolution' of the two which have been 'convolved'. The snag here is that people often want to do the 'inverse convolution' and try to work out what one of the 'original patterns' was from knowing the convolution and one of the inputs patterns. This is sometimes formally impossible. An area where astronomers and others sometimes rely on 'inspired guesswork'... :-) It is useful in this context for working out power spectra or correlations. The basaic details of all this and FT's, etc are IIRC all in the original Blackman & Tukey (spelling?) papers that were published in the Bell System Tech J. ages ago, then published as a book (Dover?). Used by many IT and analysis engineers as the foundation of work in this general area of analysis. Alas, the emphasis of the above book is pretty mathematical, and doesn't really explain examples that would be relevant here. I'm not sure what source I'd recommend for this. Slainte, Jim -- Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html |
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On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 21:04:03 +0300, "Iain Churches"
wrote: "Nick Gorham" wrote in message .. . Its mainly through playing with RIAA stages that I have become aware of the importance of maintaining phase as well as frequency response, but maybe this is old hat for you pro's. -- Nick Hi Nick. The replay phase is specified for RIAA but you will seldom see it quoted in hi-fi literature. It is of course the inverse of the cutter head. phase response. It is quoted in data from Neumann, Lyrec, Decca, Westrex etc, and you can also find it, together with tabulated gain vs frequency in Morgan Jones pp355. Unnecessary, as RIAA preamps are minimum-phase designs. If you get the amplitude response right, then the phase *must* be correct. You'd think a 'recording engineer' and 'amplifier designer' would know this. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com |
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