Anybody got the latest HFW and a digital camera/scanner?

My friend Pat FRATC has been/is very impressed with my Chinese SETs and
actually (??) wrote to HFW asking the 'What chance do UK builders have
etc....?' question in the letters section. Apparently he has had a reply
from a certain well-known 'magazine editor' who has said WTE 'Yes, they are
good but they can't do OPTs yet!' (!!??!!)

OK, fine, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but wot peeves me is there's
muggins here dipping into very shallow pockets to *find out* for himself
while others are following the 'text only' route and are quite prepared to
dismiss stuff *unheard*!! (Or tar everything with the same brush on the
basis of a small sample, personally experienced!) Ordinarily, I wouldn't
give a rodent's rectum, but Pat came on the phone a while back wondering if
it was the OPTs in the Chinese SETs that was responsible for the
'crunchiness' in my current speaker project!! (A 'crunchiness' I have
*mentioned* to him but he has not *heard* I might add!!)

No sez I, because he has borrowed one of the SETS in question (instant
converts, he and his missus - I mentioned it here a while back) and did he
notice any 'crunchiness' on his Tannoys? No, he did not! (And in any case, I
have used amps with Hammond, WAD, Dynaco and other chinese OPTs on the same
speakers!!)

Just goes to show the *power of suggestion* these audio comic types have at
their disposal, dunnit? Anyway, if anyone could email a pic/scan of the
letter I would be very pleased to see what exactly was said!

TIA

(Breath not held, as usual..... :-)

"Keith G" wrote in message
...
Anybody got the latest HFW and a digital camera/scanner?


Might do...

I haven't got to the letters bit but I'll see what I can do.

Phil

"Philip North" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...
Anybody got the latest HFW and a digital camera/scanner?


Might do...

I haven't got to the letters bit but I'll see what I can do.

Phil



Hi Phil - thanks, but Nick G's emailed me with a scan.

It's mostly my mate Pat going on about his 'Audio Bling' and doesn't really
say much about the Chinese SET (that blew him and his wife away) other than
to ask how anyone in the UK can compete or ask £1,500 for a 'similar amp'.

The response is interesting (and predictable) - the 'editor' first takes the
opportunity to remind us of the magazine's potential influence on the future
prospects for the only 'audio' company whose name is in the dictionary, goes
on to mention *current* Tannoy products being 'uncoloured and accurate' (!)
and then dismisses Chinese amps en masse as having 'pretty ropey
transformers', comparing them to a 'Ferrari with square wheels' and says
that designs from Andy Grove (subtly linking AudioNote and 'World Design')
and Tim de Paraffin as being a 'better bet' for 'unblemished high
fidelity'....!!

Er, *hello*...???

Anybody know of a 300B amp from a UK manufacturer that costs less than 300
quid when you take out the shipping and duty?? (Or even £1,500, come to
that...??)

I do not *recommend* these Chinese SETs other than very cautiously. I do not
say they are particularly any good or 'fit for the purpose' but, like our
occasional 'ultra fidelista' visitor Andre Jute, I do believe the difference
between them and summat costing a *****load* more dosh might be no more than
slight and I do say they are well worth what they do cost. To *avoid* making
some such VFM observation was just a little crass in my opinion and was
paying no small amount of lip-service to the 'regular advertisers', I
suspect.....

(Even as I typed the above, my clart-playing partner mentioned the 'clart
sound' on the Brahms Clarinet Trio that was playing was the 'best ever clart
sound yet'!! - That was with one of the Chinese 300B SETs, but I suspect due
also to the very nice MC cart that I'm using!)

This exactly the sort of thing in this that has put me off this mag for more
than a year now. Despite its bias toward valves and vinyl (which I should
favour) I'm heartily sick of seeing the stupid remarks based on dubious
measurements (check that with JL), 'trendy' personal opinions and
preferences from regular contributors who can write whole pages of 'florid
prose' without saying anything really useful (if I see the word 'slither'
again...) and the Letters section where letters that invariably start 'I
have been a subscriber to your marvellous magazine for over 10 years and it
is the best of the bunch'* and the publisher (?) responds accordingly, only
to have his reply immediately echoed by the editor in the most nauseating
arse-licking style, when favourable reference is often made to products
featured in the very same copy of the mag!!!

Makes 'What HiFi' a refreshingly honest 'ragazine' by comparison!!

(My tip: If you can get a Ferrari with square wheels for less than a tenth
of the 'normal' price, grab it and then get a set of round wheels for it -
you'll make a killing!! ;-)


*Like it's the only mag whose ink don't run when you wipe yer bum on it....

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Philip North" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

(My tip: If you can get a Ferrari with square wheels for less than a tenth
of the 'normal' price, grab it and then get a set of round wheels for it -
you'll make a killing!! ;-)

Swot I fort. *If* the main thing wrong with the Chinese amps is the
transformers then (if you have the ability and inclination) it's an obvious
start point for upgrading. Would it still cost less than £1500 even with new
transformers?

"Philip North" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Philip North" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

(My tip: If you can get a Ferrari with square wheels for less than a
tenth
of the 'normal' price, grab it and then get a set of round wheels for
it -
you'll make a killing!! ;-)

Swot I fort. *If* the main thing wrong with the Chinese amps is the
transformers then (if you have the ability and inclination) it's an
obvious
start point for upgrading. Would it still cost less than £1500 even with
new
transformers?


Should do, but even with my Ferrari remark above (aimed at the theoretical
possibility of making a lot of money more than anything) I'm not sure I
would actually bother to swap the trannies in the Chinese amps I've got. The
Law of Diminishing returns comes in fast and I'm not sure what the benefits
of unsettling a balanced, fully-working piece of kit would be.

In any case, I don't think the trannies are insubstantial :

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/bez/Bez045.JPG

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/dynavox/secondamp07.JPG


I had intended to 'tweak' one of the Dynavox amps I've got to make
comparisons with the other one (which I would have left 'untweaked') and
almost hoped one would go tits-up to prompt this action, but it never
happened. As you know yourself, the bloody Dynavox amps are more tucked in
than a duck's botty and will run day in and day out, happy as Larry!! Also,
what would it have told me? - If your pour time/money/effort into an
amplifier you *might* get it to sound a bit better?

(Hardly the Discovery Of The Age.....??? :-)

Time to take a quick squint at the Harsh Realities, I think....

In this life you get what you pay for, but these Chinese 300B SETs cost
about (or less) than 300 nicker *plus* shipping and whatever Duty you get
hit for. If I want to go up the 'quality stakes' I am looking at not less
than a *thousand* quid for a kit or parts. (Don't know about you lot, but
that ain't hay to me!!) Then there is the question of how much better would
a much more expensive amp really be? Unfortunately, I have not heard any
300B amps other than my own - it's gonna be a gamble if and when I do decide
to look at summat a bit *better*!!

(The Chinky amps can't be too ****e, they haven't put me off SETs - *quite*
the reverse!!)

I'll say it again - I don't think these Chinky Cheepies don't set out to be
the best amps under the sun, they exist to make a few Chinamen rich by
getting hold of money from relatively wealthy foreigners and their own
countrymen as they become able to afford them. As such they offer a certain
amount of 'bang for your buck' and I don't think the Chinese are interested
in a quick, one-off hit to make a killing by flogging poop the one time and
then disappearing. I reckon they have the 'VFM' factor as much in mind as
anybody else and, a bit like post-war Russian optical products, are probably
giving a bit more than they might actually need to, to get a foothold on the
market - certainly in terms of finish with some of the products:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/jaau...JAAudio003.JPG

They are simply more *affordable* than many/most/all of the 'Western
equivalents' and allow people like me to have a look at them without selling
a kidney. Provided that they aren't too unreliable (one dodgy volume pot in
4 amps so far - that's not even as bad as Shiny Nigel's EAR834P which went
tits-up in a fortnight) I would say to anyone give one a go if you fancy
them, but I can't guarantee you won't have to get the spanners out at some
stage!! :-)

End of....

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

Should do, but even with my Ferrari remark above (aimed at the theoretical
possibility of making a lot of money more than anything) I'm not sure I
would actually bother to swap the trannies in the Chinese amps I've got.
The Law of Diminishing returns comes in fast and I'm not sure what the
benefits of unsettling a balanced, fully-working piece of kit would be.


I had intended to 'tweak' one of the Dynavox amps I've got to make
comparisons with the other one (which I would have left 'untweaked') and
almost hoped one would go tits-up to prompt this action, but it never
happened. As you know yourself, the bloody Dynavox amps are more tucked in
than a duck's botty and will run day in and day out, happy as Larry!!
Also, what would it have told me? - If your pour time/money/effort into an
amplifier you *might* get it to sound a bit better?


In this life you get what you pay for, but these Chinese 300B SETs cost
about (or less) than 300 nicker *plus* shipping and whatever Duty you get
hit for. If I want to go up the 'quality stakes' I am looking at not less
than a *thousand* quid for a kit or parts. (Don't know about you lot, but
that ain't hay to me!!) Then there is the question of how much better
would a much more expensive amp really be? Unfortunately, I have not heard
any 300B amps other than my own - it's gonna be a gamble if and when I do
decide to look at summat a bit *better*!!

Mornin' Keith. This might be a good idea for a project, to buy a basic amp
and methodically upgrade one channel -measuring and listening as you go.
I was involved in something similar with a VAC 80W pp amp, some
while back. We were lucky that a Scandinavian hifi magazine paid the
bill. As you so rightly state the law of diminishing returns soon comes
into play.

Even with expensive (Sowter, Lundahl) output transformers, a valve amp that
has 0.1% THD at 1kHz might have 1% at 20Hz and 50kHz. So, imagine
what you could expect at either end of the spectrum from an amplifier with
cheaper transformers that already has 1% THD at full power 1kHz.

(The Chinky amps can't be too ****e, they haven't put me off SETs -
*quite* the reverse!!)

I'll say it again - I don't think these Chinky Cheepies don't set out to
be the best amps under the sun, they exist to make a few Chinamen rich by
getting hold of money from relatively wealthy foreigners and their own
countrymen as they become able to afford them. As such they offer a
certain amount of 'bang for your buck' and I don't think the Chinese are
interested in a quick, one-off hit to make a killing by flogging poop the
one time and then disappearing. I reckon they have the 'VFM' factor as
much in mind as anybody else and, a bit like post-war Russian optical
products, are probably giving a bit more than they might actually need to,
to get a foothold on the market - certainly in terms of finish with some
of the products:


They are simply more *affordable* than many/most/all of the 'Western
equivalents' and allow people like me to have a look at them without
selling a kidney. Provided that they aren't too unreliable (one dodgy
volume pot in 4 amps so far - that's not even as bad as Shiny Nigel's
EAR834P which went tits-up in a fortnight) I would say to anyone give one
a go if you fancy them, but I can't guarantee you won't have to get the
spanners out at some stage!! :-)

End of....

I am broadly in agreeement with what you say. Even with their low
production costs, the Chinese cannot be making the kind of profit
levels that a European manufacturer would expect. But they are
succeedling in market penetration. There is no doubt that their QC
and product reliability will rise very quickly.

They offer a very cost effective option to anyone who is interested
to try a valve amp.


--
Iain
www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches