On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:05:56 -0500, dave weil
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:32:28 GMT, (Stewart
Pinkerton) wrote:

I'm having trouble seeing how you'd score a "no difference". Aren't
you supposed to choose one amp or the other?

You just state that you can't tell any difference, and abandon the
test. After all, if you really can't hear any difference, there's no
point in carrying on.

But wouldn't you have to test your own acuity here?

You already have - you can't tell a difference. Hence, for *you*,
there is no difference.

Why would you?

In other words, you
either a.: tell some mid-fi snob that they are comparing an SET with a
Denon receiver when, in fact, they are listening to the same amp.
Then, you would see if they suddenly thought that they could hear
differences.

Been there, done that, works every time. Wear your running shoes! :-)
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:27:49 -0500, dave weil
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:04:47 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
. ..

To elaborate, if someone can't tell
the difference between, say, an SET and a Denon, they shouldn't be
expressing an opinion in the first place.

That would depend on which SET and which Denon and the other details of the
tests.

I'm obviously speaking of an amp that measures "differently" and
"sounds" differently.

And I can put up a SET amp and a Denon which I'd bet will *not* sound
differently at normal listening levels................

Of course, *all* amplifiers *measure* differently - but what does that
matter? Naturally, the 'Golden-Eared Subjectivists' will all *claim*
that they are 'night and day', as you have implied above, but it ain't
necessarily so.

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:27:49 -0500, dave weil
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:04:47 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
. ..

To elaborate, if someone can't tell
the difference between, say, an SET and a Denon, they shouldn't be
expressing an opinion in the first place.

That would depend on which SET and which Denon and the other details of the
tests.

I'm obviously speaking of an amp that measures "differently" and
"sounds" differently.

And I can put up a SET amp and a Denon which I'd bet will *not* sound
differently at normal listening levels................

Of course, *all* amplifiers *measure* differently - but what does that
matter? Naturally, the 'Golden-Eared Subjectivists' will all *claim*
that they are 'night and day', as you have implied above, but it ain't
necessarily so.

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On 23 Sep 2003 19:10:36 -0700, (JBorg) wrote:

You said:

" If you really believe in 'cable sound', I have a standing offer of £1,000
to *anyone* who can tell apart any two cables under double-blind
conditions, the only proviso being that they measure +/- 0.1dB from
20-20kHz at the speaker terminals. This is trivially easy for all but
the most pathological cables. "

Are you still sure about this offer at RAO ?

I don't read r.a.o, but the offer stands.

HELllllllooooooooo ??

Of course, it doesn't help if you're deaf...........
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On 23 Sep 2003 19:10:36 -0700, (JBorg) wrote:

You said:

" If you really believe in 'cable sound', I have a standing offer of £1,000
to *anyone* who can tell apart any two cables under double-blind
conditions, the only proviso being that they measure +/- 0.1dB from
20-20kHz at the speaker terminals. This is trivially easy for all but
the most pathological cables. "

Are you still sure about this offer at RAO ?

I don't read r.a.o, but the offer stands.

HELllllllooooooooo ??

Of course, it doesn't help if you're deaf...........
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:35:55 GMT, (Stewart
Pinkerton) wrote:

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:57:28 -0500, dave weil
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:32:28 GMT, (Stewart
Pinkerton) wrote:

The Krell KSA-50mkII, Hafler XL-600 and Audiolab 8000P were sonically
indistinguishable into Apogee Duetta Signatures, a Yamaha AX-570 was
almost identical aside from a tiny amount of treble brightness, while
other amps from Rega, Musical Fidelity and Arcam were sonically
distinguishable for various reasons.

Could you elaborate?

I've done so several times, I can't be bothered any more.

OK.

I guess I'll just discount your comments at this point.

So, I would assume that these tests indicate that the Yamaha and all
of the others aren't properly designed. Or was there the possibility
of malfunction?

The Rega was so harsh that there was certainly a possibity of
malfunction, the MF I believe would have had a falling treble
response, and the Yamaha might well have shown a little excess HF IMD
or switching distortion. As it was part of a buying decision, I wasn't
that interested in *why* the also-rans fell out.

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:35:55 GMT, (Stewart
Pinkerton) wrote:

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:57:28 -0500, dave weil
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:32:28 GMT, (Stewart
Pinkerton) wrote:

The Krell KSA-50mkII, Hafler XL-600 and Audiolab 8000P were sonically
indistinguishable into Apogee Duetta Signatures, a Yamaha AX-570 was
almost identical aside from a tiny amount of treble brightness, while
other amps from Rega, Musical Fidelity and Arcam were sonically
distinguishable for various reasons.

Could you elaborate?

I've done so several times, I can't be bothered any more.

OK.

I guess I'll just discount your comments at this point.

So, I would assume that these tests indicate that the Yamaha and all
of the others aren't properly designed. Or was there the possibility
of malfunction?

The Rega was so harsh that there was certainly a possibity of
malfunction, the MF I believe would have had a falling treble
response, and the Yamaha might well have shown a little excess HF IMD
or switching distortion. As it was part of a buying decision, I wasn't
that interested in *why* the also-rans fell out.

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:35:57 GMT, (Stewart
Pinkerton) wrote:

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:05:56 -0500, dave weil
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:32:28 GMT, (Stewart
Pinkerton) wrote:

I'm having trouble seeing how you'd score a "no difference". Aren't
you supposed to choose one amp or the other?

You just state that you can't tell any difference, and abandon the
test. After all, if you really can't hear any difference, there's no
point in carrying on.

But wouldn't you have to test your own acuity here?

You already have - you can't tell a difference. Hence, for *you*,
there is no difference.

Why would you?

I guess you *wouldn't* want to challenge your own personal religion.
But dbts are all about making such judgments univerally applicable.

I guess you're just like the tweakoids - you only want to believe what
you believe.

In other words, you
either a.: tell some mid-fi snob that they are comparing an SET with a
Denon receiver when, in fact, they are listening to the same amp.
Then, you would see if they suddenly thought that they could hear
differences.

Been there, done that, works every time. Wear your running shoes! :-)

I don't believe you.

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:35:57 GMT, (Stewart
Pinkerton) wrote:

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:05:56 -0500, dave weil
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:32:28 GMT, (Stewart
Pinkerton) wrote:

I'm having trouble seeing how you'd score a "no difference". Aren't
you supposed to choose one amp or the other?

You just state that you can't tell any difference, and abandon the
test. After all, if you really can't hear any difference, there's no
point in carrying on.

But wouldn't you have to test your own acuity here?

You already have - you can't tell a difference. Hence, for *you*,
there is no difference.

Why would you?

I guess you *wouldn't* want to challenge your own personal religion.
But dbts are all about making such judgments univerally applicable.

I guess you're just like the tweakoids - you only want to believe what
you believe.

In other words, you
either a.: tell some mid-fi snob that they are comparing an SET with a
Denon receiver when, in fact, they are listening to the same amp.
Then, you would see if they suddenly thought that they could hear
differences.

Been there, done that, works every time. Wear your running shoes! :-)

I don't believe you.

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:57:02 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

snip
Horse taken to water, horse refused to drink for the jillionth time. Not
news!

Typical Arnold stuff.

A total waste of a post.

You are just being evasive, Weil. You're running away!