"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Now Tony, you're perhaps the one to ask - having seen what Swim's Toppy
can do, I grabbed a couple of Tommies (Thomson Twins? :-) real cheep
from Argos (again.....) this morning. (One is for someone else.....)

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/thompsontwins.JPG


Do you know anything seriously detrimental about them or are they OK? -
They are less than half the cost of a Toppy and *seem* to have all the
bells and whistles (on the latest firmware) for decent 'watch and
blow'...???

Have you got the full spec?



No idea - is it possible to get less than the full spec?

The firmware is the 2.3.9 latest version, but they broadcast upgrades on a
regular basis anyway, I gather....



I recently got a Toppy and am generally pleased with it.


OK. Swim's the one with the Toppy - all I got was a lowly Tommy!!



Three things annoy (so far) :-

It is slow to fire up from standby.
The EPG can take a long time to load fully
If the TV is in standby - and you're out so doing an 'unattended'
recording, it switches the TV on when it drops into record.

Brilliant bits:-
Simple recording off EPG - if only this was more accurate. ;-(
Easy to use for the basics - ie treating it like a VCR
Can record two things at once and watch a third live all off Freeview.
The ability to pause a 'live' prog when - say - the phone goes and pick it
up from there afterwards.
Pretty well as far as my viewing unlimited storage - I've got the 250 gig
version.


OK, you're talking Toppy here - I wouldn't know, I don't get involved with
Swim's gadgets. I gather she's very pleased with it and what I have seen her
watching all looks very good. She loves the user interface.

You'll be needing this then:

http://www.toppy.org.uk/

for your 'TAPs'...??? :-)


One FreeView moan. Some radio services peak to 0dBFS. TV sound only to
-10dBFS. Many older progs on the 'minority' channels to considerably less
than -10. So switching from TV sound to radio can result in a *vast*
change in level.


I'm new to all this - Swim's had the Toppy (160 gig version - the 250s were
out of stock at Empire Direct) for only about a week. That's the extent of
my interest/involvement is this malarky - the Liteon came to me and the
'chase play' (pause/rewind &c.) capability is what got me interested (I
can't stand being tethered to a TV screen), so I grabbed the last two
*reduced priced* Tommies from the local Argos (I have a bed there now) - one
for me and one for my son who will learn it completely and then train me
over the next decade or so!! (I've got zero tolerance of all this zapper
stuff!)

But, having said that, I managed to record a snatch of a programme, archived
it to the Liteon HDD and then dropped it to a DVD+RW. The resultant quality
was plenty OK for a telly screen, but the bleeding reds (no, seriously - the
red was bleeding slightly to the left - I don't come from Essex :-) made it
less than perfect for projecting. Although I have to say on the telly tthe
Tommy is stonking good (as is the Liteon) - I suspect the disk-writing in
the Liteon is where is slips a bit....

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Now Tony, you're perhaps the one to ask - having seen what Swim's Toppy
can do, I grabbed a couple of Tommies (Thomson Twins? :-) real cheep
from Argos (again.....) this morning. (One is for someone else.....)

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/thompsontwins.JPG


Do you know anything seriously detrimental about them or are they OK? -
They are less than half the cost of a Toppy and *seem* to have all the
bells and whistles (on the latest firmware) for decent 'watch and
blow'...???

Have you got the full spec?

I recently got a Toppy and am generally pleased with it.

Three things annoy (so far) :-

It is slow to fire up from standby.
The EPG can take a long time to load fully
If the TV is in standby - and you're out so doing an 'unattended'
recording, it switches the TV on when it drops into record.

Brilliant bits:-
Simple recording off EPG - if only this was more accurate. ;-(
Easy to use for the basics - ie treating it like a VCR
Can record two things at once and watch a third live all off Freeview.
The ability to pause a 'live' prog when - say - the phone goes and pick it
up from there afterwards.
Pretty well as far as my viewing unlimited storage - I've got the 250 gig
version.

More or less ditto with the Humax 9200T. The most irritating thing is
EPG accuracy which, IIUC, can be corrected (padded a couple of minutes
either side) with the Topfield - not so with the Humax. I'd add MP3
playback - limited to 5GB or so ATM.

One FreeView moan. Some radio services peak to 0dBFS. TV sound only to
-10dBFS. Many older progs on the 'minority' channels to considerably less
than -10. So switching from TV sound to radio can result in a *vast*
change in level.


Not noticed that.

Rob

"Rob" wrote


More or less ditto with the Humax 9200T.


Woah! You got a Hummy then? :-)


The most irritating thing is
EPG accuracy which, IIUC, can be corrected (padded a couple of minutes
either side) with the Topfield - not so with the Humax. I'd add MP3
playback - limited to 5GB or so ATM.


Yes, I believe there's lots of similar options on the Tommy...???



One FreeView moan. Some radio services peak to 0dBFS. TV sound only to
-10dBFS. Many older progs on the 'minority' channels to considerably less
than -10. So switching from TV sound to radio can result in a *vast*
change in level.


Not noticed that.


One nice little feature I've already spotted is that the Tommy does 'radio
and plasma' blanking (you set/can change the interval) to prevent screen
burning with radio splash screens and static menus....!! :-)

"Adrian C" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

With a stark, clear, intimate female vocal/acoustic backing (Regina Lund
'Unique') CD on my *crystal clear* and very revealing Pinkies (Firewood
Horns with Fostex FE103E fullrange drivers) I ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT SPLIT
THEM!!


Hmmm.. you mention horns.

Just come across this interesting AV room project
http://www.royaldevice.com/custom.htm (scroll down!)




Seen that before - shows how much more enthusiastic the Continentals can be
than most of us Brits!!

(Not to mention *wealthy*, apparently....!! ;-)

Keith G wrote:
"Rob" wrote


More or less ditto with the Humax 9200T.


Woah! You got a Hummy then? :-)


Oh yes :-)

Actually, forgot to mention, one of the main reasons for getting it was
the USB file trnasfer facility. Just plug in into the PC and drag the
files over. Nonsense - it takes an age (knocking on 24 hrs for 160GB),
and the files are very buggy. I've sort of got the hang of it now, and
despite the fact at my rate of recording I only need to do it every 6
months it's still a PITA.

Other gadgets tried recently:

http://shop.cd-writer.com/acatalog/A...YER_3_650.html
http://www.itreviews.co.uk/hardware/h765.htm

Neither quite what they should be - interesting little distraction for a
couple of evenings though ;-)

I don't know if anyone can explain this: Humster files played back
through the Pinnacle/component/wireless PC are markedly less pixelated
than the original. The Pinnacle thing is good, but video playback is
jerky - I haven't taken a close look yet, so jury's out.

The Freecom was a mispriced (100UKP) buy - surprisingly good and may
well form the guts of a media player. As it is it's far too noisy.

The most irritating thing is
EPG accuracy which, IIUC, can be corrected (padded a couple of minutes
either side) with the Topfield - not so with the Humax. I'd add MP3
playback - limited to 5GB or so ATM.


Yes, I believe there's lots of similar options on the Tommy...???


I looked into all this before I bought the Humble. Although it's dead
simple to use and cheaper and astoundingly reliable (I don't even think
about it now) I think on reflection the Topster would have been a tiddly
bit better for me. The Thomsons you've got look good VFM - but I'd want
a bigger HD and file transfer.

One FreeView moan. Some radio services peak to 0dBFS. TV sound only to
-10dBFS. Many older progs on the 'minority' channels to considerably less
than -10. So switching from TV sound to radio can result in a *vast*
change in level.

Not noticed that.


One nice little feature I've already spotted is that the Tommy does 'radio
and plasma' blanking (you set/can change the interval) to prevent screen
burning with radio splash screens and static menus....!! :-)

Ah - the killer app!

Rob

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

One FreeView moan. Some radio services peak to 0dBFS. TV sound only to
-10dBFS. Many older progs on the 'minority' channels to considerably
less than -10. So switching from TV sound to radio can result in a
*vast* change in level.

I'd noticed this but not gone so far as to measure it...

Has always seemed odd to me that different stations have different
requirements for peak recorded level - in the digital age surely we should
be mastering to 0dbFS.


--
Aggressive sweeping momentarily melts the ice, which lessens friction,
thereby lessening the deceleration of the rock, while straightening the
trajectory of the rock.

Rob wrote:

One nice little feature I've already spotted is that the Tommy does
'radio and plasma' blanking (you set/can change the interval) to
prevent screen burning with radio splash screens and static
menus....!! :-)
Ah - the killer app!

Aye - the pace twin does that too - still not a brilliant box but the latest
softwarer is very stable, let down by lack of twin record and EPG slowness.
--
Aggressive sweeping momentarily melts the ice, which lessens friction,
thereby lessening the deceleration of the rock, while straightening the
trajectory of the rock.

In article ,
Tim S Kemp wrote:
One FreeView moan. Some radio services peak to 0dBFS. TV sound only to
-10dBFS. Many older progs on the 'minority' channels to considerably
less than -10. So switching from TV sound to radio can result in a
*vast* change in level.

I'd noticed this but not gone so far as to measure it...

Has always seemed odd to me that different stations have different
requirements for peak recorded level - in the digital age surely we
should be mastering to 0dbFS.

The problem is that when digital came in, EU broadcasting settled on a
line up level of -18dBFS. Analogue machines using the same line up levels
were approx 8dB below peak (depending on many things). But analogue tape
overloads fairly gracefully, while digital doesn't, so it was decided to
leave 10dB headroom above nominal peak level. And this got transferred to
FreeView TV sound.

Pop radio however is never happy unless their modulation levels are at
near constant peak.

--
*Stable Relationships Are For Horses.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim S Kemp wrote:
One FreeView moan. Some radio services peak to 0dBFS. TV sound only to
-10dBFS. Many older progs on the 'minority' channels to considerably
less than -10. So switching from TV sound to radio can result in a
*vast* change in level.

I'd noticed this but not gone so far as to measure it...

Has always seemed odd to me that different stations have different
requirements for peak recorded level - in the digital age surely we
should be mastering to 0dbFS.

The problem is that when digital came in, EU broadcasting settled on a
line up level of -18dBFS. Analogue machines using the same line up levels
were approx 8dB below peak (depending on many things). But analogue tape
overloads fairly gracefully, while digital doesn't, so it was decided to
leave 10dB headroom above nominal peak level. And this got transferred to
FreeView TV sound.

Pop radio however is never happy unless their modulation levels are at
near constant peak.

It shouldn't be forgotten either that audio levels are still being
monitored with a standard BBC PPM which under reads by anything between
4 and 8 dB on very short-term peaks, so 10dB of headroom on digital
transmission is sensible. In spite of many attempts, I could never
persuade anyone at either the BBC or commercial operators to adopt a
true-peak PPM, even one with the same standard 1-7 scale. Those who
tried it always went back to the well-known and loved quasi-peak as it
looked more like they were used to.

S.

In article ,
Serge Auckland wrote:
It shouldn't be forgotten either that audio levels are still being
monitored with a standard BBC PPM which under reads by anything between
4 and 8 dB on very short-term peaks, so 10dB of headroom on digital
transmission is sensible.

I very much doubt anything goes to line without going through a
compressor/limiter, and all such things tend to remove the sort of peaks
that fool a PPM.

In spite of many attempts, I could never persuade anyone at either the
BBC or commercial operators to adopt a true-peak PPM, even one with the
same standard 1-7 scale. Those who tried it always went back to the
well-known and loved quasi-peak as it looked more like they were used
to.

Thing is that the ear can't really hear these short term peaks, so the
meter not reading them is no bad thing from a balance - if not engineering
- point of view.

I've got fast acting peak LEDs on the workshop PPM and they're on most of
the time. ;-)

--
*The average person falls asleep in seven minutes *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.