"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
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"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
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"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
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"Keith G" wrote in message

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in
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In article
,
Keith G wrote:
"Serge Auckland"
wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

I think the nub of your response is that people
"believe" things sound different. It's the same
mental process that have people believing in God,
the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus. They don't have
a shred of objective evidence that things sound
different, just their faith.


Let's say they *perceive* things to sound
different.

OTOH lets *not* say they "perceive" things since
that then opens up all the
ambiguities and misundestandings where people use
the word 'perceive' in different ways and argue at
cross-purposes... :-)

What word would you prefer then? They have to
perceive to believe, do they not?

A little apparently much-needed Psychology 101:

There are two kinds of perceptions:

Illusory or unreliable
Veridical or reliable


Actually, four....

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=perception

Different issues.


...none of them based on factual accuracy, as I
perceive it....

:-)

Obviously true for you, Keith.

Some of the rest of us are mostly interested in
veridical perceptions. Illusions are fun, but that's
about it for them.

I suspect (correct me, if I'm wrong) that, in your haste
to dash off yet another sniffy little snipe at me, you
have lost the plot somewhat..??

If you mean that I ignored your gratuitous detour into
irrelevance Keith, the answer would be yes.


What 'gratuitous detour'? I'm in a discussion with Jim
about interpretation of the word 'perceive' - these
threads wander where they will, or hadn't you noticed?
(It would explain some of your wacky responses....)

Please re-read the thread above and note where I
responded to Serge to merely report that there is a
group of people 'not far from here' who have
*perceptions* that contradict what he had stated - I
never said that I shared those 'perceptions', I simply
mentioned that I was surprised he wasn't challenged on
some of the points he has made. Note also that my
response to JL (also above) was merely to ask what word
he would prefer to 'perceive', as he doesn't like it -
although I have to say it is unambiguous to me. Then
you will see that the, er, veridiculous use of the word
'veridical' in this context is irrelevant.*

Wordplay notwithstanding, it is you Keith that lost
track of the context, not I.


See above 1) the thread has evolved to its present
subject matter and, as such, the context has changed and
2) the OP is me - difficult to be out of context in a
thread I started and wandered where I led it, ain't it?
If I was to turn attention in this thread to, say, the
perception of the taste of pancakes while listening to
both ss and valve amps and make a comparison between them
it would not be out of context, AFAIAC....

As to the rather vague "Some of the rest of us mostly" -
you would do better in my book if you had the balls to
speak only for yourself and not try to pad your
opinions/arguments with the implied support/agreement of
a group of invisible colleagues.

Let's see if you can get this, Keith:


OK, let's....


Science and other attempts at reliable facts are about
veridical perceptions.


What number is that in 'Arny's Book Of Rules'...??


Fiction, hype, and error is about giving too much
credibility,
or the wrong kind of credibility to illusions.


No, that's called 'Hollywood'.....



As to 'illusions' and
'fun' - that's what the whole 'audio' game is about,
ain't it?

Pehaps for you, Keith - it may be all fun and games and
who cares about trying for accurate, lifelike
reproduction.

Naughty boy, Arny - you know better than that! Even those
wistful souls *perceiving* differences with endless
tweaks are trying to achieve just that very thing.

They get to waste their time with illusions, if they so desire.

I'm
not employed in the audio industry and the day 'audio'
stops being fun for me is the day I chuck it and take up
needlework or summat, but that said, no-one here works
harder at this 'fun' than I do - I'm just up from my
garage/workshop where I've been finishing off/painting
speakers and this morning I sacrificed a good deal of
time to provide Plowie with some sound clips to evaluate.
(Knowing that he wouldn't have the grace to respond to
them!! ;-)

To summarize then Keith, you see audio as a means for getting abused by
others?

There is only one person with the *best* audio
system (somewhere) in the world - everyone else is
deluding themselves to a greater or lesser degree, are
they not....??

Wrong. There are a certain number of very good systems,
none of which should pretend to be the best.

Read it again and think carefully (work on your
*comprehension*) - it's nothing to do with any
'pretence', it is a certain fact that one system will be
the *best* in the world by whatever means you wish to
measure it.

If life was only that simplistic.

The owner of that system will very likely not
even be aware of it.....

Why should he care?

(Cheap shots about *proper* English not being your first
language have been avoided.... ;-)

Not at all.

The concept of "best" is usually just an illusion.
Reality is about many things that approach but do not
attain perfection.

Keep a grip Arnold, we are talking 'best' here, not
'perfect' - not the same thing, is it.....??

How do you know for sure that something is best if it is not perfect?

BTW Keith, take all the time you want to frame a logical reply.


*IOW, don't try to flannel your way into an UK newsgroup
with fancy English, me auld china - especially not when
this 'Englishman' went to an English Grammar School that
was older than your *country*...!! ;-)

Contrary to your ill-founded beliefs Keith, older is not
necessarily better. Attitudes like yours are one reason
why the UK is no better than a second-rate world power,
and probably worse.

:-)

Yet you subscribe to a UK (audio) group and I subscribe
to *no* US/US-centric groups, due to my complete and
utter lack of interest in them!!??

Limited world view noted.

Wake up Arny and smell your own coffee - the world is
bored with the US and the days the US could *large it* in
the world with impunity are over.

Seems like the US has plenty of errr influence in the UK.

(If they ever
existed...???) OTOH, the weak, lame or just downright
crafty are beating their way to our shores in droves,
passing through many countries with a better standard of
living than we have to get here!!

The same for the US, except that they don't usually pass through any
countries with a better standard of living than the US for some reason.

(I think it's because they know, deep down, the UK is
home to the finest audio in the world!! ;-)

Whatever it takes to get you through the day, Keith.