In article , Bob Latham
wrote:
In article , Jim Lesurf
wrote:

[big snip]


If you want to obtain reliable evidence that can then be assessed by
yourself and others, and which might then be evidence that the bi
wiring was a reason for a change (rather than something else that
didn't occur to you) then you would need to do the comparison tests in
an appropriate way.

I appreciate that you might not want to do this, but if you don't,
then you 'results' will remain of undeterminable value - i.e.
effectively worthless as evidence for more than a statement of
personal belief.

I completely understand your position as stated above.

My position is that I have no wish to convince the group of the validity
of my opinion with regard to this matter. I honestly couldn't give a
monkey's if anyone thinks what I experienced was genuine or not. Long
since given up on that one.

That is fair enough. However performing the listening tests, etc, as I have
described can also aid you in deciding the answers to the questions you
posed, and would clearly be interested in finding answers for. Thus the
point of such an approach isn't just to satisfy others. It would also give
you better info to resolve the questions you have.

I had hoped to put aside the arguments and simply say that given my
position does anyone have any suggestions as to how I track down the
reason for my experience (assuming for the moment that it was factual).

To be clear here, I don't believe in magic with cables, if a difference
exists there must be a reason for it and that must be to do with L R C.

To do this you would have to proceed in two ways. One would be to measure
the relevant RLC values, etc. Then analyse/model the systems to determine
what effects these could be expected to have. The other would be to perform
listening tests in a way that the results would indicate if the changes in
sound you report correlate with this or not. The problem here is that
something else might have changed without you noticing. Hence the need to
do 'randomised' comparisons in an appropriate manner. For all we know the
difference may be quite real, but have nothing to do with the cables as
such.

Fair comment, I can't provide much else as I don't have an inductance or
capacitance meters.

These can be measured by other means. However if you wished, you could
still do listening tests that might shed some light on the questions you
asked. But I am afraid it can be a time-consuming process. So it would
only be worth doing if you feel the answers might be worth the effort. I
can quite understand that if your system now gives fine results you might
feel this wasn't of sufficient interest for reasons of 'academic curiosity'
alone.

FWIW I can quite understand why domestic users, in general, don't bother to
engage in well-conducted comparison tests as they can be involved and time
consuming. Hence if I criticise anyone here is would be professional
'reviewers' who can't be bothered. They should be putting in the required
time and effort as their 'advice' may matter to other people, and they are
being paid on the basis that their comments are supposed to be of use to
readers.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Glenn Richards wrote:

So how do you explain the fact that when the speakers are bi-wired
they sound better (clearer and sharper treble, more detail etc)? And
when single-wired they sound muddy by comparison?

The question is, *do* they sound clearer/muddy, etc?


Hint: the standard uk.rec.audio cop-out of "it's all in your mind" is
not a valid response. Of course it's all "in your mind", your ear only
gathers sound and turns it into electrical signals. It's your mind (or
more technically your brain) that interprets those electrical signals
as noises, whether pleasant or unpleasant. Just in case you feel like
getting pedantic.

So, where do 'dreams' come from? What input signal is being interpreted,
such that these perceptions become manifest?


--
Wally
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Glenn Richards wrote:

Good grief - there really is no end to it.
OK, I've done all I can - anybody else feel like trying?

Come up with a computer model that matches the observed effects and I
might start taking you seriously.

Come up with a plausible explanation for the observed effects, and it might
be possible to model it in a computer. Sans explanation, the computer model
would really only be a computer simulation.

Do you have a light meter?


--
Wally
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Don Pearce wrote:

Horses for courses, I guess.

OK, tell us the story about the racehorse that went so much faster
when you bolted its legs on backwards.

All of the legs were bolted onto the front - it was called "Red Bum".

B'dum-tish!


--
Wally
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Don Pearce wrote:

Horses for courses, I guess.
OK, tell us the story about the racehorse that went so much faster
when you bolted its legs on backwards.

yawn

You're truly getting boring now. As others mentioned earlier in this
thread, some of us don't give a flying copulation as to whether or not
you actually believe that I'm hearing what I'm hearing. All the computer
models in the world aren't going to change the fact that when I switch
between single-wiring and bi-wiring I hear an improvement. So far you've
failed to come up with a sensible explanation for this.

Instead all you've done is come up with some junk computer model that
doesn't actually reflect what's happening, and then persist in sitting
on the sidelines making snide comments.

As Jim put it, I'm not a professional hi-fi reviewer. My interest
extends to what makes things sound better (or worse so they can be
avoided). And as I said before, if bi-wiring sounds better then I'll
bi-wire. Hell, if placing a large lemon on top of each speaker actually
improved the sound, then I'd place a large lemon on top of the speaker
(and then carry out a few controlled tests to see if other citrus fruit
had the same effect).

For the record I don't believe for a moment that putting lemons on your
speakers would make an audible difference... but hey, I might be able to
come up with a new product line... Audiophile Lemons? If it works for
the likes of Machina Dynamica (magic pebbles, LCD clocks etc) then I'm
sure it would work for me!

--
Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735
Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/

IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation

tony sayer wrote:

A case in point being my ex-girlfriend. She honestly could not tell
the difference between a £99 midi system and 5 grand's worth of
separates. Other than "your system goes louder".
Is that why she became the ex;-?....

Nope. She actually had a complete breakdown, turns out she'd suffered
some trauma when she was a kid that I didn't know about. Anyway, this
isn't the place to talk about that kind of thing...

--
Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735
Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/

IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation

"Glenn Richards" wrote in message
...
(and then carry out a few controlled tests to see if other citrus fruit
had the same effect).

We havn't seen much in the way of controlled testing up to this point,
Glenn. Why should we believe it would occur in the future if you saw what
you percieved to be a sound improvement. Why didn't you do controlled
testing with the bi-wiring.