Andre Jute wrote:

These are a capella renditions of the words in Hebrew of the Old
Testament, according to Suzanne Haik-Vantoura's reconstruction of how
the Rabbis of old sang them.

Stick it up your jumper you old fogey !

Graham

Stick it up your jumper you old fogey !

Graham

Oh, COME ON, Graham. Get with the program. It has nothing to do with
the scholarly history of the music or its pretentions to such.

Unaccompanied voice is one of the very few possible sources that has
even the smallest chance of sounding remotely passable on a SET driven,
single-driver system. Hence its quickly acquired "meaningful" status.
The last bit of "meaningful" music this accretion of unsupported
fantasies was touting was poorly recorded Gregorian Chant... another
stellar source for such systems.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

wrote in message
ups.com...
Stick it up your jumper you old fogey !

Graham

Oh, COME ON, Graham. Get with the program. It has nothing to do with
the scholarly history of the music or its pretentions to such.

Unaccompanied voice is one of the very few possible sources that has
even the smallest chance of sounding remotely passable on a SET driven,
single-driver system. Hence its quickly acquired "meaningful" status.
The last bit of "meaningful" music this accretion of unsupported
fantasies was touting was poorly recorded Gregorian Chant... another
stellar source for such systems.


As I was reading the above Allegri's Miserere was playing on the radio (SS
amp, Firewood Horn speakers) - a perfect example of what you are trying to
describe, I think. How's that for a coincidence? (In reality, one of the
pieces that is thrashed to death on Brit Classic FM radio, to the
continued/continuing exclusion of lesser-known works of equal quality....)

Which leads me to make this observation - I don't believe for a moment
SET/Horn setups only do 'vocal'. If that was the case I'd have no use for
them! A perfect example - earlier on I was listening to an unusal Polish
recording of Szymanowski's Violin Concerto No. 1 by Zachar Bron ('Muza'
label - SX 1536).

I had played it last night and needed to hear it again today (as you do) and
was wracked with the incredible *sweetness* of it and thought how sad it was
that many people are never going to get to hear it, or at least, not like I
was hearing it....??

I dunno. Must be me, I must be going deaf...???

Which leads me to make this observation - I don't believe for a moment
SET/Horn setups only do 'vocal'. If that was the case I'd have no use for
them! A perfect example - earlier on I was listening to an unusal Polish
recording of Szymanowski's Violin Concerto No. 1 by Zachar Bron ('Muza'
label - SX 1536).

I dunno. Must be me, I must be going deaf...???

Didn't suggest or imply "only", but "few". A set/horn system won't do
much with the Saint-Saens Organ Symphony, Bach's B- Mass, even Mozart's
"Sparrow Mass"; trumpets in general, or anything with kettledrums. But
frequency-limited sources with a similarly limited peak-to-average will
come out just fine.

As to "deaf", I went through a hearing test lately as part of an
overall physical, I am down 3dB at 17khz, 10dB at 18khz... the last
time I went through the same drill (30 years ago at age 24), I was down
3dB at 18khz... But then, I wore ear-valves (frequency-sensitive
ear-plugs) at concerts and proper ear protection when shooting. But we
are all going there. I knew I was over the hill when I finally admitted
to bifocals.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

wrote in message
oups.com...

Which leads me to make this observation - I don't believe for a moment
SET/Horn setups only do 'vocal'. If that was the case I'd have no use for
them! A perfect example - earlier on I was listening to an unusal Polish
recording of Szymanowski's Violin Concerto No. 1 by Zachar Bron ('Muza'
label - SX 1536).

I dunno. Must be me, I must be going deaf...???

Didn't suggest or imply "only", but "few". A set/horn system won't do
much with the Saint-Saens Organ Symphony,


Damn, I'm cleaning all my records and am out of order for the moment (that's
a major reorganisation of 3-4,000 LPs!) and I know I cleaned a nice-looking
version of that a few days ago. I'll come back on it when I have found it
and played it. Otherwise, it's my SET and horns that was described as 'the
best drum sound I have ever heard' by a friend who works in a hifi shop a
few months ago - *and* I've put better drivers in since! That was back on
Fostex drivers and even I would say they don't do **bass*!!


Bach's B- Mass, even Mozart's
"Sparrow Mass"; trumpets in general, or anything with kettledrums.


So **not** my own experience...??? I just don't understand this??


But
frequency-limited sources with a similarly limited peak-to-average will
come out just fine.

As to "deaf", I went through a hearing test lately as part of an
overall physical, I am down 3dB at 17khz, 10dB at 18khz... the last
time I went through the same drill (30 years ago at age 24), I was down
3dB at 18khz... But then, I wore ear-valves (frequency-sensitive
ear-plugs) at concerts and proper ear protection when shooting. But we
are all going there. I knew I was over the hill when I finally admitted
to bifocals.


I dropped shooting like a stone a good while back - the game shooting
because I suddenly reakised what I was doing and clays I just drifted away
from (Sunday mornings - not a good time for me). The pistol target-shooting
I had stopped a while before that, I was Club Secretary of a 'Rifle Club'
which only shot pistols!!

Anyway, thank goodness I did - a friend of mine who continued long after I
stopped, is now quite deaf!!

I had a tone generator on the computer a while back and can only claim to
have been definitely able to hear the 14,252 (??) setting, but thankfully if
I'm out in the garden with Swim, it's me who hears the phone - and she is 13
years younger than me!! :-)

So **not** my own experience...??? I just don't understand this??


I will spare you the rant on moving air, but consider a 30hz organ note
at considerable volume. Then consider the piccolo pipes above that, and
all-else that goes on. The last 5 minutes of the Organ Symphony move a
great deal of air. Physics would suggest that a fly-power amp pushing
perhaps 20 square inches of diaphram (even long-throw) at-best is not
going to be able to manage both ends of that spectrum (and the middle
of course) in anything remotely approaching mid-orchestra seating
concert-hall volume.... Outside in the lobby, perhaps.

Trumpets.... you *might* get the central part, but not hardly the
attack and decay, again and most especially if other instruments are
playing along.

Kettledrums... not at anything approaching volume as noted above, and
as they are 'tuned' drums, other than a very precise system will lose
most of them. They are not 'snare drums' by any means.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

wrote in message
ups.com...
So **not** my own experience...??? I just don't understand this??


I will spare you the rant on moving air, but consider a 30hz organ note
at considerable volume. Then consider the piccolo pipes above that, and
all-else that goes on. The last 5 minutes of the Organ Symphony move a
great deal of air. Physics would suggest that a fly-power amp pushing
perhaps 20 square inches of diaphram (even long-throw) at-best is not
going to be able to manage both ends of that spectrum (and the middle
of course) in anything remotely approaching mid-orchestra seating
concert-hall volume.... Outside in the lobby, perhaps.

Trumpets.... you *might* get the central part, but not hardly the
attack and decay, again and most especially if other instruments are
playing along.

Kettledrums... not at anything approaching volume as noted above, and
as they are 'tuned' drums, other than a very precise system will lose
most of them. They are not 'snare drums' by any means.



OK, we're in business. A quick scrute through the records (which are in no
particular order, other than I am already bunching the Mahler) has produced
4 different versions so far:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/saintsaens.JPG

And I've fired up the big stuff to get a head of steam:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/bigstuff.JPG

....all 4 watts of it!! :-)

So there'll some fun and games in a little while!

What I try to do is record it *open mic* and post a bit on my Show N Tell
page. All very hideous (it's only a lapel mic and it's buggered up - mono
only, I think) and it will sound like a public toilet but there may be
enough information for someone to check the frequencies. It'll be on the
Jerichos - the big yalla boys!!

What bit do you particularly want to hear? (Assuming any success with the
mic....)

No time scale, no telling when - later with a bit of luck!

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Didn't suggest or imply "only", but "few". A set/horn system won't do
much with the Saint-Saens Organ Symphony,


Damn, I'm cleaning all my records and am out of order for the moment
(that's a major reorganisation of 3-4,000 LPs!) and I know I cleaned a
nice-looking version of that a few days ago. I'll come back on it when
I have found it and played it. Otherwise, it's my SET and horns that
was described as 'the best drum sound I have ever heard' by a friend
who works in a hifi shop a few months ago - *and* I've put better
drivers in since! That was back on Fostex drivers and even I would say
they don't do **bass*!!

Drum sound? Drum kits have no extreme bass.
The 32 ft organ pipe in the Saint-Saens does, and you need rather special
speakers and a large room to hear it properly.

--
*If a parsley farmer is sued, can they garnish his wages?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Drum sound? Drum kits have no extreme bass.
The 32 ft organ pipe in the Saint-Saens does, and you need rather special
speakers and a large room to hear it properly.

--
*If a parsley farmer is sued, can they garnish his wages?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Kettle Drums, a substantially different animal than regular drums, but
no extreme bass, agreed.

"Rather special" also agreed. And sufficient power in addition. Room
size is the most flexible variable after a certain minimum threshold is
met. I did fine in a 16 x 29 x 9.5 foot room and speakers that included
four (4) 12" woofers. Not as good, but fairly-OK in a room that was 16
feet square by 9.67 feet high (one of two present listening locations).
The amp in either case was driving at ~180 watts each channel (not
clipping, of course) for those few moments of the crescendo if the LED
meters are to be believed. Volume was 'adequate'. Normal conversation
was not possible in that room during that exercise. Nor was it in any
way objectionable. Clean sound.

It is this experience that leads me to be suspicious of fly-powered SET
amps and single-driver horn speakers.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA