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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
Don Pearce wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 11:10:55 GMT, "dadiOH" wrote: David Morgan (MAMS) wrote: I had a look, and I can't see how the device works without modifying dynamic range Simply put... 1. Find max volume among all songs 2. "Turn up the volume" in all others so their max is the same as the loudest. Won't work - can't work. If you have a mixture of music, then peak levels as related to average loudness will vary wildly. The loudest sounding will have highly compressed dynamics, with most of the tune crammed against the limit. If you try to increase the levels of all the others until they sound as loud, they will all be clipped to hell. No, not necessarily *sound* as loud just increase the values in the softer songs until the greatest is equal to the greatest in the loudest song. For example... Loud song greatest value = 29000 Song to be changed, greatest value = 24,500 (29000)-(24500) = 4500. Therefore, all values in this song are to be increased by 4500 when played. -- dadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico |
Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:05:17 GMT, "dadiOH"
wrote: Don Pearce wrote: On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 11:10:55 GMT, "dadiOH" wrote: David Morgan (MAMS) wrote: I had a look, and I can't see how the device works without modifying dynamic range Simply put... 1. Find max volume among all songs 2. "Turn up the volume" in all others so their max is the same as the loudest. Won't work - can't work. If you have a mixture of music, then peak levels as related to average loudness will vary wildly. The loudest sounding will have highly compressed dynamics, with most of the tune crammed against the limit. If you try to increase the levels of all the others until they sound as loud, they will all be clipped to hell. No, not necessarily *sound* as loud just increase the values in the softer songs until the greatest is equal to the greatest in the loudest song. For example... Loud song greatest value = 29000 Song to be changed, greatest value = 24,500 (29000)-(24500) = 4500. Therefore, all values in this song are to be increased by 4500 when played. But what does that do? They are just numbers, and they have only the most tangential relationship to the perceived playing of the track - which is what this is all about. Incidentally the maths is all off too. You can't do this by adding numbers, you have to multiply. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
Don Pearce wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 11:10:55 GMT, "dadiOH" wrote: David Morgan (MAMS) wrote: I had a look, and I can't see how the device works without modifying dynamic range Simply put... 1. Find max volume among all songs 2. "Turn up the volume" in all others so their max is the same as the loudest. Won't work - can't work. If you have a mixture of music, then peak levels as related to average loudness will vary wildly. The loudest sounding will have highly compressed dynamics, with most of the tune crammed against the limit. If you try to increase the levels of all the others until they sound as loud, they will all be clipped to hell. What you're forgetting here is that the MP3 is not just PCM data with absolute scalar values for every sample. There is a "volume" field in the header which tells the playback application how loud to play the thing. By tweaking THAT, you can turn down the level of a track without affecting the actual resolution (except of course the resolution is still limited by the converters at the final playback, and if the gain is lowered digitally, that will be reduced... still, that's a marginal problem at best). The thing is, that field is ALWAYS maxed out whenever anyone hands you an MP3, because all the encoders want their products to play back as loudly as possible. So you can usually turn it down, but seldom can you turn it up. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
Scott Dorsey wrote: Don Pearce wrote: On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 11:10:55 GMT, "dadiOH" wrote: David Morgan (MAMS) wrote: I had a look, and I can't see how the device works without modifying dynamic range Simply put... 1. Find max volume among all songs 2. "Turn up the volume" in all others so their max is the same as the loudest. Won't work - can't work. If you have a mixture of music, then peak levels as related to average loudness will vary wildly. The loudest sounding will have highly compressed dynamics, with most of the tune crammed against the limit. If you try to increase the levels of all the others until they sound as loud, they will all be clipped to hell. What you're forgetting here is that the MP3 is not just PCM data with absolute scalar values for every sample. There is a "volume" field in the header which tells the playback application how loud to play the thing. By tweaking THAT, you can turn down the level of a track without affecting the actual resolution (except of course the resolution is still limited by the converters at the final playback, and if the gain is lowered digitally, that will be reduced... still, that's a marginal problem at best). The thing is, that field is ALWAYS maxed out whenever anyone hands you an MP3, because all the encoders want their products to play back as loudly as possible. So you can usually turn it down, but seldom can you turn it up. That's interesting Scott. Is there a handy application to edit the header ? Graham |
Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3files
David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message ... On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 13:42:20 -0700, Julian wrote: Like ANY other sound editor. Unfortunately, it will re-encode your MP3's, which is a BAD THING. That's why to use MP3 Gain. It does NOT re-encode your MP3's. It only writes a volume play back level to the header which can be removed at any time. Unfortunately that volume reduction is probably achieved digitally by just throwing away bits, which is a bad thing. It doesn't throw away bits. What it does is it changes "global gain" values. Doing so is totally lossless and reversible. Anyway do you WANT everything reduced to the level of the quietest? You then have to apply more amplification, bringing noise levels up. So? And you don't have to reduce them to the level of the quietest. What you can do is apply "track gain" so that all the songs are a certain volume, for example 89dB, and then use "constant gain" to bring the volume of every song up or down by the same amount. I had a look, and I can't see how the device works without modifying dynamic range - but even if it works by lowering... you have another valid 'yuk' point. MP3Gain doesn't touch dynamic range. -- http://pcguyelevated.ytmnd.com/ |
Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3files
Scott Dorsey wrote:
The thing is, that field is ALWAYS maxed out whenever anyone hands you an MP3, because all the encoders want their products to play back as loudly as possible. So you can usually turn it down, but seldom can you turn it up. No. It's the music industry that wants their *songs* to play as loudly as possible, so they use dynamic compression to be able to make them as loud as possible on CD. You would never *want* to turn *up* the gain on these files, since it will make the already-existing clipping even worse, but you can do it. -- http://pcguyelevated.ytmnd.com/ |
Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
"NRen2k5" wrote in message ... David Morgan (MAMS) wrote: "Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message ... On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 13:42:20 -0700, Julian wrote: Like ANY other sound editor. Unfortunately, it will re-encode your MP3's, which is a BAD THING. That's why to use MP3 Gain. It does NOT re-encode your MP3's. It only writes a volume play back level to the header which can be removed at any time. Unfortunately that volume reduction is probably achieved digitally by just throwing away bits, which is a bad thing. It doesn't throw away bits. What it does is it changes "global gain" values. Doing so is totally lossless and reversible. Anyway do you WANT everything reduced to the level of the quietest? You then have to apply more amplification, bringing noise levels up. So? And you don't have to reduce them to the level of the quietest. What you can do is apply "track gain" so that all the songs are a certain volume, for example 89dB, and then use "constant gain" to bring the volume of every song up or down by the same amount. I had a look, and I can't see how the device works without modifying dynamic range - but even if it works by lowering... you have another valid 'yuk' point. MP3Gain doesn't touch dynamic range. If everything works downward in comparison to the reference... but if gain is increased (especially on material where peaks are likely already near FS) limiting will have to come into play, altering dynamics. -- David Morgan (MAMS) http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com Morgan Audio Media Service Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901 _______________________________________ http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com |
Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
"NRen2k5" wrote in message ... Scott Dorsey wrote: The thing is, that field is ALWAYS maxed out whenever anyone hands you an MP3, because all the encoders want their products to play back as loudly as possible. So you can usually turn it down, but seldom can you turn it up. No. It's the music industry that wants their *songs* to play as loudly as possible, so they use dynamic compression to be able to make them as loud as possible on CD. You would never *want* to turn *up* the gain on these files, since it will make the already-existing clipping even worse, but you can do it. Thus altering dynamic range even further, or living with massive distortion, the latter of which I'd hope most products would not consider as an option. |
Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3files
In article ,
NRen2k5 wrote: Scott Dorsey wrote: The thing is, that field is ALWAYS maxed out whenever anyone hands you an MP3, because all the encoders want their products to play back as loudly as possible. So you can usually turn it down, but seldom can you turn it up. No. It's the music industry that wants their *songs* to play as loudly as possible, so they use dynamic compression to be able to make them as loud as possible on CD. That's a different issue altogether. That's not an encoding issue. With CD, where you have no encoding, the only way to make playback louder is with abusive compression. With MP3, you have the field available to you when you encode it. Back in the LP days, it was all manual, and you had to put "PLAY THIS RECORD AS LOUD AS POSSIBLE" in the liner notes. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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