This is part of my reply to a friend who has Klipsch Heresies already but
expressed a curiosity about my speakers. I thought it too *neat* to waste
and have posted it here mainly, I suppose, to aggravate the Pencil Dicks
here who are too scared to step outside the safety zone of legacy Brit
'evergreens' and are full of yap and *advice* - yet too fekkin' embarrassed
to tell you what speakers they've got themselves....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

You of all people must know what it's like when you want other speakers!
Otherwise why would you have so many?!


OK, not as daft as you might think - I went through 20,000 SS amplifiers
without realising I was looking for valves, I did almost the same thing with
speakers. (Was doing in fact!) Now I've got triodes and horns (and vinyl)
and am very happy with the 'Holy Trinity'! What ****es me off is that all
the 'advice' I got, after I got into the 'hifi' hobby, tried to push me in
the opposite direction, so it took a lot more time and money to get where I
am!

The rapid progress through the horns was a 'speeded up' voyage of
discovery - with hindsight we'd all wait 'til the lift gets to the top floor
before we stepped off, wouldn't we? ;-)
--------------------------------------------------------------------


By contrast, I was 'talking' to Elrond a few weeks back who owns and
recommends Tannoy 609s. By a stroke of luck there wuz a pair on eBay ending
in only a few hours, so I grabbed them for a (midweek) song. They are
*excellent* - I could live with them quite happily, were it not for the
horns....!!

Then I googled for Klipsch Heresies (as you do) and found this (first
result):

"I believe they are up to the third addition at this time. These are small
by the original Klipsch standards, and of course is a sealed box/suspension
style speaker, hence this is where the name is derived. The early, original
Heresies came in two choices, 8 and 16 ohms. The sensativity is rated around
96 db/1m, and has a bit of a difficult impedence on the 8 ohm models(or so I
have heard). Most SET owners feel this is a nice speaker, as well do most
other smaller tube amp owners. The biggest complaint I have heard about this
and other Klipsch models is the bright, in your face presantation. YMMV as
they say!"


What is it with this 'in yer face' rubbish with anything that's a *lot* more
revealing than most multiway, crossovered IB/BR slurry pumps? Is it an
'indoctrination' thing? Do they have no 'volume controls'...??

Mystified, Tonbridge Wells

On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 11:54:36 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

OK, not as daft as you might think - I went through 20,000 SS amplifiers
without realising I was looking for valves, I did almost the same thing with
speakers. (Was doing in fact!) Now I've got triodes and horns (and vinyl)
and am very happy with the 'Holy Trinity'! What ****es me off is that all
the 'advice' I got, after I got into the 'hifi' hobby, tried to push me in
the opposite direction, so it took a lot more time and money to get where I
am!

Ah Keith. Sorry you got pushed in the wrong direction, but you do need
to shoulder some of the blame for that if you were asking people for
advice about Hi Fi. People would naturally push you in the direction
of highest fidelity, but that wasn't what you wanted. You had a
particular sound in your head that needed matching, and you've found
it in SETs and horns.

That's all great, and I for one applaud it, but impressive sounds
aren't much to do with Hi Fi. I for one always run the other way when
I hear a system that sounds impressive, because I know that in the
long run I won't be able to live with it. I need my Hi Fi to be
self-effacing - all I want to hear is the music.

One man's meat...

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 11:54:36 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

OK, not as daft as you might think - I went through 20,000 SS amplifiers
without realising I was looking for valves, I did almost the same thing
with
speakers. (Was doing in fact!) Now I've got triodes and horns (and vinyl)
and am very happy with the 'Holy Trinity'! What ****es me off is that all
the 'advice' I got, after I got into the 'hifi' hobby, tried to push me in
the opposite direction, so it took a lot more time and money to get where
I
am!

Ah Keith. Sorry you got pushed in the wrong direction, but you do need
to shoulder some of the blame for that if you were asking people for
advice about Hi Fi.



OK, first off, you do not need to include yourself in the above - you and I
are poles apart 'hifiwise', but I have never considered any information from
you to be anything like the bigotted claptrap that I'm referring to above.
That reply was to a friend outside the context of any newsgroup - I don't
blame anybody for my 'voyage' through hifi kit in the recent years but I did
take note of what some of the so-called 'Old Hands' had to say. Asitappens,
many times I have posted a specific question I received no answer, so
there's certainly 'no blame'!!

(In any case, all my life I have followed strictly empirical methods and
have stated here in the past that if someone *tells* me the stove is hot, I
get burnt fingers!! ;-)

The worst offender here by far is Plowie - he hands it out like we have all
just got off the boat, but he don't got the balls to back up the crap he
posts with any concrete evidence or specific information. One facet of an
empirical nature is to provide physical evidence (Show N Tell) when it is
easy enough to do - or 'blogging' as he likes to call it. I am giving in to
the 'text only' nature of this ng and won't be providing too much to
see/hear from now on, despite the fact that it is fun to do and is common
practice elsewhere - there are any number of forums hoaching with pix, links
and the occasional soundclip!

(I might add 'Because I say so' don't cut it with me and is the sort of
arrogance that gets people off my Christmas Card List PDQ...!!)


People would naturally push you in the direction
of highest fidelity, but that wasn't what you wanted. You had a
particular sound in your head that needed matching, and you've found
it in SETs and horns.


Yep, all I've wanted is to be able to hear *all* of the sound and not in the
one plane between the speakers.

The 'musicality' of the sound I get is beyond question, or I wouldn't have a
single item of the same kit. Also, factor in that (as I said recently)
although I only have to please myself, I am so devoid of the above-mentioned
arrogance that I readily elicit the opinions of others to confirm (or
otherwise) my own findings. Trust me that if I had had a string of people
(including what? no less than 7 subscribers/lurkers here?) through here all
telling me the kit sounds ****e I wouldn't have taken it on board?? I have
responded to criticisms and suggestions throughout - it's the *point* of
asking for opinions!


That's all great, and I for one applaud it, but impressive sounds
aren't much to do with Hi Fi. I for one always run the other way when
I hear a system that sounds impressive, because I know that in the
long run I won't be able to live with it. I need my Hi Fi to be
self-effacing - all I want to hear is the music.


Hmm, that one's done a bit to death in my book....

I've got two sons who want only the same thing - they have Technics/Sony/B&W
and NAD/Sony/Mission setups and have steadfastly refused any spare kit that
I would have *thought* might have been an upgrade as they are both very
happy with the sound they have. Take it from me, what they have is plenty OK
but it is innocuous and extremely *uninvolving* compared with my own stuff
which will, I'm certain, be far too scary for most. Their sound (and that of
one or two others I know) is what I call perfectly decent 'TV music'..!!

I find that so much detail and imaging is lost in 'normal hifi' it is not
*all* of the music - there's too much missing to satisfy me and the lack of
clarity with some kit combinations is too much like sucking a sweet with the
wrapper on for my taste!

Also, I would like to add, it's not necessarily a 'valves & vinyl' thing - I
suspect that if you spend *enough* money on their opposites you probably
could get summat approaching that which can be had for comparative peanuts
with a bit of valves, vinyl and horns DIY..!!

(It's probably no more than a question of 'horses for wallets'...??? :-)


(Jeez, it's a good day for similes !! :-)


One man's meat...


Sure....

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
The worst offender here by far is Plowie - he hands it out like we have
all just got off the boat, but he don't got the balls to back up the
crap he posts with any concrete evidence or specific information.

Sigh. You prefer vinyl to CD. So in many ways have just got off the boat.

Take a CD and copy it to another CD. You'll not tell the difference
between them.

Take that same CD and copy it to LP. You'll instantly tell the LP copy
from the CD master.

This means LP is *adding* something to the audio that it shouldn't.

That you choose to ignore this most fundamental of flaws means you're
really not worth trying to educate over other matters like horn
colouration, break up of cones with full range drivers, etc etc.

I'm happy that you enjoy your hobby and certainly that you make so much
of your own bits and bobs, but when your flowery descriptions of just how
much improved the latest one is over last weeks delight read like the very
worst excesses of the Hi-Fi press. That made most genuine sound
enthusiasts simply stop buying them.

--
*I pretend to work. - they pretend to pay me.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I'm happy that you enjoy your hobby and certainly that you make so
much of your own bits and bobs, but when your flowery descriptions of
just how much improved the latest one is over last weeks delight read
like the very worst excesses of the Hi-Fi press. That made most
genuine sound enthusiasts simply stop buying them.

Keith's stuff is on-topic, interesting, and entertaining. What he's doing is
right in line with the spirit of the 'rec' part of the group's name.
Regarding your "flowery" remark, Keith is one of the most skilled users of
language in here. Maybe you just don't understand why he does it, or why
people come to this (or any other) group. Seems to me that you expect this
to be a place where the discourse is dry and factual, where only equipment
of a certain standard is worthy.

You don't have to read his stuff, and you don't have to whine about it,
either.


--
Wally
www.wally.myby.co.uk

In article ,
Wally wrote:
I'm happy that you enjoy your hobby and certainly that you make so
much of your own bits and bobs, but when your flowery descriptions of
just how much improved the latest one is over last weeks delight read
like the very worst excesses of the Hi-Fi press. That made most
genuine sound enthusiasts simply stop buying them.

Keith's stuff is on-topic, interesting, and entertaining. What he's
doing is right in line with the spirit of the 'rec' part of the group's
name. Regarding your "flowery" remark, Keith is one of the most skilled
users of language in here.

Fine. Perhaps you'd provide a glossary of what the terms actually mean.

Maybe you just don't understand why he does it, or why people come to
this (or any other) group. Seems to me that you expect this to be a
place where the discourse is dry and factual, where only equipment of a
certain standard is worthy.

Not so. Discussion on anything audio is ok. As is challenging the wilder
claims.

You don't have to read his stuff, and you don't have to whine about it,
either.

Pot, kettle.

--
*If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Wally" wrote in message

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I'm happy that you enjoy your hobby and certainly that
you make so much of your own bits and bobs, but when
your flowery descriptions of just how much improved the
latest one is over last weeks delight read like the very
worst excesses of the Hi-Fi press. That made most
genuine sound enthusiasts simply stop buying them.

Keith's stuff is on-topic, interesting, and entertaining.

In a quirky sort of way.

What he's doing is right in line with the spirit of the
'rec' part of the group's name.

As are posts from people of the sonic accuracy persuasion.

Regarding your "flowery"
remark, Keith is one of the most skilled users of
language in here.

...in the eye of the beholder.

Maybe you just don't understand why he
does it, or why people come to this (or any other) group.

Here's a much-needed hint for you Wally: Not everybody comes here for the
same reason.

Seems to me that you expect this to be a place where the
discourse is dry and factual, where only equipment of a
certain standard is worthy.

There's nothing that says that discourse that is factual is necessarily dry.
In fact there's nothing more exciting than important truths, clearly stated.

You don't have to read his stuff, and you don't have to
whine about it, either.

Yup, in "Wally world" all opinions that conflict with Wally are whines.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
The worst offender here by far is Plowie - he hands it out like we have
all just got off the boat, but he don't got the balls to back up the
crap he posts with any concrete evidence or specific information.

Sigh. You prefer vinyl to CD. So in many ways have just got off the boat.

Take a CD and copy it to another CD. You'll not tell the difference
between them.

Take that same CD and copy it to LP. You'll instantly tell the LP copy
from the CD master.

This means LP is *adding* something to the audio that it shouldn't.


Dear oh dear...

Is that what this is all about? You still trying to win the Vinyl Wars? (See
below...)

Vinyl is stronger than it has been for the last two decades - every
turntable manufacturer in the world has brought out new models and even
people like MF and EAR have got into it. Competition for high quality
turntables and vinyl accessories on eBay is ferocious, cartridge/deck
manufacturers are bringing out new models and the DJ scene has never been
healthier!

You lost. Get over it....


That you choose to ignore this most fundamental of flaws means you're
really not worth trying to educate over other matters like horn
colouration, break up of cones with full range drivers, etc etc.


Educate?

You really think I need/could get an education from you? (You really think
you're placed to educate me?)

Laughable!



I'm happy that you enjoy your hobby and certainly that you make so much
of your own bits and bobs, but when your flowery descriptions of just how
much improved the latest one is over last weeks delight read like the very
worst excesses of the Hi-Fi press.


They what....??


That made most genuine sound
enthusiasts simply stop buying them.


WTF is a 'sound enthusiast'...??



--
*I pretend to work. - they pretend to pay me.


Once again, the silly tagline is the only true bit of Banzai Plowie's post!
(See below...)



Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


Except nobody ever does....


[Banzai Plowie]

Plowie can't get used to the idea that vinyl *sounds* better and despite all
his efforts in the past he hasn't been able to stop a single person enjoying
it - he's like one of those WW2 Banzai Japs who spent 30 years defending a
deserted island in the Pacific against *nobody* for 30 years, until they
were lured out of their foxholes by a pack of Luckies and the promise of a
Jane Russell movie!!

YHFL...

:-)

Keith G wrote:


Plowie can't get used to the idea that vinyl *sounds* better....

Only to some Keith, not to everyone, and certainly not to me.

S.

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
The worst offender here by far is Plowie - he hands it out like we
have all just got off the boat, but he don't got the balls to back up
the crap he posts with any concrete evidence or specific information.

Sigh. You prefer vinyl to CD. So in many ways have just got off the
boat.

Take a CD and copy it to another CD. You'll not tell the difference
between them.

Take that same CD and copy it to LP. You'll instantly tell the LP copy
from the CD master.

This means LP is *adding* something to the audio that it shouldn't.


Dear oh dear...

Is that what this is all about? You still trying to win the Vinyl Wars?
(See below...)

Err, no. It was an example of how your whole thinking is flawed. You are
looking for an extremely coloured unnatural sound - and of course each
change you make sounds different and suits you for a day or so. You are
searching for some sort of holy grail that simply doesn't exist.

Vinyl is stronger than it has been for the last two decades - every
turntable manufacturer in the world has brought out new models and even
people like MF and EAR have got into it. Competition for high quality
turntables and vinyl accessories on eBay is ferocious, cartridge/deck
manufacturers are bringing out new models and the DJ scene has never
been healthier!

You lost. Get over it....

You really didn't understand the bit about vinyl *adding* to the sound,
did you? Or how it also applies to horn enclosures and 'wide range' single
drivers? Poorly designed valve amps too?
These things were known many many years ago - but you appear to be trying
to re-invent the wheel.


That you choose to ignore this most fundamental of flaws means you're
really not worth trying to educate over other matters like horn
colouration, break up of cones with full range drivers, etc etc.


Educate?

You really think I need/could get an education from you? (You really
think you're placed to educate me?)

Laughable!

No - I consider you beyond education. But five minutes reading some basic
books on audio design would increase your knowledge multifold.



I'm happy that you enjoy your hobby and certainly that you make so
much of your own bits and bobs, but when your flowery descriptions of
just how much improved the latest one is over last weeks delight read
like the very worst excesses of the Hi-Fi press.


They what....??


That made most genuine sound
enthusiasts simply stop buying them.


WTF is a 'sound enthusiast'...??

Not you, obviously. You appear to be an equipment enthusiast.



--
*I pretend to work. - they pretend to pay me.


Once again, the silly tagline is the only true bit of Banzai Plowie's
post! (See below...)

Except nobody ever does....

When last did you work? ;-)


[Banzai Plowie]

Plowie can't get used to the idea that vinyl *sounds* better and despite
all his efforts in the past he hasn't been able to stop a single person
enjoying it - he's like one of those WW2 Banzai Japs who spent 30 years
defending a deserted island in the Pacific against *nobody* for 30
years, until they were lured out of their foxholes by a pack of Luckies
and the promise of a Jane Russell movie!!

What a prat. Just what percentage of the music - or reproduced sounds -
loving public listen to vinyl? Somewhere like a fraction of 1% I'd guess.
And for good reason.

--
*The beatings will continue until morale improves *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.