A search through usenet reveals the popular opinion that universal players
convert SACD data into PCM, thus losing all of the sonic benefits of SACD.
Another opinion is that this only applies to the digital output; the analogue
outputs are properly converted. Does anyone know the truth about this?

--
Eiron

No good deed ever goes unpunished.

"Eiron" wrote in message
...
A search through usenet reveals the popular opinion that universal players
convert SACD data into PCM, thus losing all of the sonic benefits of SACD.
Another opinion is that this only applies to the digital output; the
analogue
outputs are properly converted. Does anyone know the truth about this?

--
Eiron

No good deed ever goes unpunished.

Okay, I'll confess I know swat all about universal players, especially the
budget ones but from what I've read your assumptions about SACD playback are
almost correct.

Most cheaper players convert DSD to LPCM and then decode it to analogue
(audio). This technique simplifies the time domain correction adjustments
between the channels for both SACD, DVD-A, dts and DD modes. Likewise level
adjustment and bass management. No doubt only having one set of DACs for
all 6 channels providing final D/A decoding for SACD, DVD-A and LPCM is got
to be cheaper than integrating proper DSD decoding.

In the more expensive players AFAIK there are separate decoders for DSD, PCM
etc.

Most DVD-A capable players will allow 2 channel (or multichannel mixed down
to 2 channel) digital PCM bitstream output. Depending on the authoring of
the disc and the capability / settings on the player the digital bitstream
output is generally at a lower resolution that of the MLP encoded audio on
the disc.

True SACD players do not allow for a digital output to be used. Only
analogue outputs can be used to get an output from the player. No doubt
there are players on the market that do otherwise.

Cheers,
Alan

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:38:18 +0800, "Alan Rutlidge"
wrote:

Okay, I'll confess I know swat all about universal players, especially the
budget ones but from what I've read your assumptions about SACD playback are
almost correct.

Most cheaper players convert DSD to LPCM and then decode it to analogue
(audio). This technique simplifies the time domain correction adjustments
between the channels for both SACD, DVD-A, dts and DD modes. Likewise level
adjustment and bass management. No doubt only having one set of DACs for
all 6 channels providing final D/A decoding for SACD, DVD-A and LPCM is got
to be cheaper than integrating proper DSD decoding.

In the more expensive players AFAIK there are separate decoders for DSD, PCM
etc.

True. However, even in those, if one elects to use bass management,
there is a conversion to PCM since that function is not possible in
DSD with current technology.

Most DVD-A capable players will allow 2 channel (or multichannel mixed down
to 2 channel) digital PCM bitstream output. Depending on the authoring of
the disc and the capability / settings on the player the digital bitstream
output is generally at a lower resolution that of the MLP encoded audio on
the disc.

True SACD players do not allow for a digital output to be used. Only
analogue outputs can be used to get an output from the player. No doubt
there are players on the market that do otherwise.

Again, true. There are several digital outputs for SACD including
iLink (Firewire), Denon-Link, HDMI 1.2+ and others. Unfortunately,
these are not yet common.

Kal

"Kalman Rubinson" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:38:18 +0800, "Alan Rutlidge"
wrote:

Okay, I'll confess I know swat all about universal players, especially the
budget ones but from what I've read your assumptions about SACD playback
are
almost correct.
True SACD players do not allow for a digital output to be used. Only
analogue outputs can be used to get an output from the player. No doubt
there are players on the market that do otherwise.

Again, true. There are several digital outputs for SACD including
iLink (Firewire), Denon-Link, HDMI 1.2+ and others. Unfortunately,
these are not yet common.

Kal

Thanks Kal. Totally forgot about iLink etc. (read embarrassed).
I was thinking more S/PDIF as either TosLink or via co-ax which is the type
one might expect on the cheaper universal players which doesn't support a
digital bitstream output for SACD.
Oh well, I guess I must have been asleep when I posted that one. :-(

Cheers,
Alan

"Eiron" wrote in message


A search through usenet reveals the popular opinion that
universal players convert SACD data into PCM, thus losing
all of the sonic benefits of SACD.

The notion that universal players convert SACD data into PCM, thus losing
all of the sonic benefits of SACD is total ignorant BS on two vastly
different grounds.

(1) The sonic benefits of SACD would be present in a well-designed PCM
system that had identical bandwidth and dynamic range. In fact the 24/192
PCM format vastly surpasses SACD for dynamic range, and practically matches
it for bandwidth.

(2) SACD digital-to-analog converters are simpler and cheaper to make than
PCM converters, all other things being equal. A SACD DAC is a PCM DAC with
about half the function removed or bypassed. The most popular converter
chips for universal players are chips that process SACD by internally
bypassing portions of their circuitry that are only required for PCM.

Another opinion is
that this only applies to the digital output;

The digital outputs of any consumer so-called hi-rez player is either
elaborately enciphered to prevent bypassing native resolution conversion
from digital to analog, or downsampled to 48 KHz PCM.