The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 22:11:07 +0100, tony sayer
wrote:

I used to play about with colour photo printing some while ago and
in general digital seems better then what I remember the piccy quality
we got.. all of which is rather unscientific!...
--

Agreed, digital allows the hobbyist to print better pictures. Home
colour processing was a thankless task.

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

Take 2:

Look and listen closely - digital stuff all suffers from the loss of
that final sharpness, be it sound or images....

Alas, no matter how many 'takes' you make, your theory disagrees with
my experience. :-)

Word Insertion Technique noted - 'theory'...??

Your theory is that **all** "digital stuff" is as you describe.

Yet in reality you probably haven't listened to *all* recordings. Nor does
your theory make much sense once you take into account that a number of the
LPs you like were probably in digital form prior to being cut to vinyl.
:-)

I have also made CDRs of LPs, and I - and others who I have tried them one
- then can't tell them apart if they only have the sounds to go on.

So the problem is that you convert some specific experiences into a theory
which you then apply to *all* "digital stuff". But which fails to agree
with some cases which you fail to take into account.

My *experience* disagrees with yours and my opinion is shared here.

But that was not what you said above. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

In article , Bill Taylor
writes
On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 22:06:48 +0100, tony sayer
wrote:

In article , Bill Taylor
writes
On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 15:43:16 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

Take 2:

Look and listen closely - digital stuff all suffers from the loss of
that final sharpness, be it sound or images....

Alas, no matter how many 'takes' you make, your theory disagrees with my
experience. :-)



Word Insertion Technique noted - 'theory'...??

My *experience* disagrees with yours and my opinion is shared here.

Anybody care to claim 'digital radio' or 'digital TV' is sharper than
analogue?

That rather depends on what variety of TV your talking about and where
in the distribution chain your viewing it, but at the point of origin
professional digital 625/50 production equipment is better in all
respects than the analogue version.

Interesting point... where exactly is it digitised?.

Well the CCU output is available as SDI but I don't know enough about
modern cameras to say where in the camera the digitisation takes
place, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was fairly early in the
signal chain and some of the processing was done digitally.

Yes its a rather moot point.. would the signal be more accurate as an
analogue signal directly off the CCD as digitising needs to quantify
that signal so in a way analogue is nearer the mark;)

And remind us of the bitrates used;)

About 270Mbps for standard def.

Yep..amazing!, its ticking away at that rate and then just to see what
the viewer sees of it

Although I know you don't like transmitted digital TV (and I wish the
bitrates were higher), it is an impressive feat to achieve a nearly
100:1 compression ratio and still get pretty good pictures most of the
time.

Well suppose it is but you'd think that bandwidth availability on
satellite transmission etc...never mind I must write out 10000 times

"In the 21st century Quantity is more important than Quality"

Bill

--
Tony Sayer

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

In article ,
Laurence Payne lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote:
That rather depends on what variety of TV your talking about and where
in the distribution chain your viewing it, but at the point of origin
professional digital 625/50 production equipment is better in all
respects than the analogue version.

Interesting point... where exactly is it digitised?.

I'd assume the mixing console was digital these days?

Video chains these days can be digital from camera onwards. Audio only
usually after the microphones. However, with audio, you can get
satisfactory results with analogue in much of the path. The problems come
with recording, transmission systems and the path to the transmitter.
Sadly, the digital transmissions systems capable of transparent end
results are also amenable to transmitting lower quality at a lower overall
cost, and this seems to be the way things have gone in the UK.

--
*Lottery: A tax on people who are bad at math.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

In article ,
Laurence Payne lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote:
Agreed, digital allows the hobbyist to print better pictures. Home
colour processing was a thankless task.

I had a good mate - sadly now deceased - who got a great deal of pleasure
out of home colour printing. Just because something is difficult to
achieve well doesn't make it thankless - quite the reverse, often.

--
*And don't start a sentence with a conjunction *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

I had a good mate - sadly now deceased - who got a great deal of pleasure
out of home colour printing. Just because something is difficult to
achieve well doesn't make it thankless - quite the reverse, often.

So did I. (Only he's still breathing, last time I looked.) He too
took great pleasure in the technical process. Eventually he realised
he was spending a LOT of time and money to be almost as good as the
machine at the camera shop :-) I had less money to burn and stuck
to black & white. Until digital came along I don't think I'd ever
shot in colour. Now the process is trivial and I enjoy making
photographs.

There's some audiophile analogies in there somewhere :-)

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

In article ,
Bill Taylor wrote:
Well, I'm listening to R4 DAB off the house balanced distribution
system via home assembled LS 3/5A and a Linsey Hood 75 watt amp while
I type. Would you like to know what the sound system is in each
bathroom? Toilet? Workshop? Kitchen? Guest bedrooms?

You probably mean Lindsey Hood?


Perhaps he meant Linsley Hood?

Rule 1 of the internet is that when some prat decides to correct another's
spelling or typo he invariably gets it wrong. ;-)

The gentleman's name for the record is John Linsley Hood - or that's the
name on his books. At least one Hi-Fi News article had him as J.L.
Linsley-Hood. Dunno which is correct.

--
*Suicidal twin kills sister by mistake.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

In article , Laurence Payne
lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom.? writes

I had a good mate - sadly now deceased - who got a great deal of pleasure
out of home colour printing. Just because something is difficult to
achieve well doesn't make it thankless - quite the reverse, often.

So did I. (Only he's still breathing, last time I looked.) He too
took great pleasure in the technical process. Eventually he realised
he was spending a LOT of time and money to be almost as good as the
machine at the camera shop :-) I had less money to burn and stuck
to black & white. Until digital came along I don't think I'd ever
shot in colour. Now the process is trivial and I enjoy making
photographs.

There's some audiophile analogies in there somewhere :-)

The problem with the colour process is the number of stages and the
requirement for keeping the whole lot at the right temperatures etc all
in all dictates a home lab setup, unlike monochrome where it can all be
done in the bathroom;)
--
Tony Sayer

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 19:28:58 +0100, tony sayer
wrote:

In article , Laurence Payne
lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom.? writes

I had a good mate - sadly now deceased - who got a great deal of pleasure
out of home colour printing. Just because something is difficult to
achieve well doesn't make it thankless - quite the reverse, often.

So did I. (Only he's still breathing, last time I looked.) He too
took great pleasure in the technical process. Eventually he realised
he was spending a LOT of time and money to be almost as good as the
machine at the camera shop :-) I had less money to burn and stuck
to black & white. Until digital came along I don't think I'd ever
shot in colour. Now the process is trivial and I enjoy making
photographs.

There's some audiophile analogies in there somewhere :-)

The problem with the colour process is the number of stages and the
requirement for keeping the whole lot at the right temperatures etc all
in all dictates a home lab setup, unlike monochrome where it can all be
done in the bathroom;)

Many years ago I bought a Cibachrome kit, with drum, box of filters
for the enlarger, thermometers, chemicals and so on. I must have made
a hundred test prints trying for a decent colour balance - which I
never managed to get to my satisfaction. Add to that the lousy
contrast range and you have expensive misery.

Digital photography is incalculably better than that. From picture
taken to people the far side of the world looking at it in a couple of
minutes - no contest.

I still have a 35mm camera which appears to be getting more expensive
by the day on ebay - quite inexplicable.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

"Don Pearce" wrote


Many years ago I bought a Cibachrome kit, with drum, box of filters
for the enlarger, thermometers, chemicals and so on. I must have made
a hundred test prints trying for a decent colour balance - which I
never managed to get to my satisfaction. Add to that the lousy
contrast range and you have expensive misery.


Ditto....



Digital photography is incalculably better than that. From picture
taken to people the far side of the world looking at it in a couple of
minutes - no contest.


No-one grabbed digital photography quicker than I did. Even back in the 640
x 480 days (256K ???) days, getting a pic onto the screen in moments (even
before fast modems/broadband) beat all that ****ing about with film and
waiting for results. Nowadays, being able to get large, hi-res pix to
anywhere in the world in a heartbeat is still quite staggering by
comparison!!

Add to that the (effectively) zero cost of film and there's no contest, as
you say - I once took 21 pix on my way up to the post box and back and
That's on the corner of our front garden!! (Can't say I bother to print much
out these days....)


I still have a 35mm camera which appears to be getting more expensive
by the day on ebay - quite inexplicable.


Ah....!!

See my original remarks about *ultimate quality* - it'll be a long time
before wet film cameras dry up completely!!

Now, by the power of digital photography, go and see my pix of the
excavations I got finished today:

****BLOG ALERT***

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...0Patch%202.JPG

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...0Patch%204.JPG


(Note the 'compost delivery' hard on my tail - no pressure, like.....!! :-)

If you're really lucky, I'll show you a pic of my butt tomorrow.....

;-)

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 19:56:17 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...0Patch%202.JPG


Mmmm.... maybe just a little above your damp proof course. Hope it
doesn't rain.

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...0Patch%204.JPG


Is that Tony Robinson I can see just out of shot there?


(Note the 'compost delivery' hard on my tail - no pressure, like.....!! :-)

If you're really lucky, I'll show you a pic of my butt tomorrow.....

Holding my breath!

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 19:56:17 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...0Patch%202.JPG


Mmmm.... maybe just a little above your damp proof course. Hope it
doesn't rain.


We're thinking of throwing a Trowel Party - where all the guests bring a
coupla doz imported beers and a *trowel*....



http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...0Patch%204.JPG


Is that Tony Robinson I can see just out of shot there?


No, he's under the heap!! :-)




(Note the 'compost delivery' hard on my tail - no pressure, like.....!!
:-)

If you're really lucky, I'll show you a pic of my butt tomorrow.....

Holding my breath!


Streuth, it ain't that bad!! (It's not even been used yet...!! ;-)

Actually, there's two of 'em!!

AUDIO BIT:

Anybody got a DAC they want to sell? Preferably with more than one input
(switchable, coax and/or optical) - don't need to be too posh, it's only to
get sound off my Tommy (PVR) into a stereo amp - I get a little 'heartbeat'
problem from the analogue outs! (Common on these, apparently...??)

I'm watching this one atm:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Anybody got a DAC they want to sell? Preferably with more than one input
(switchable, coax and/or optical) - don't need to be too posh, it's
only to get sound off my Tommy (PVR) into a stereo amp - I get a little
'heartbeat' problem from the analogue outs! (Common on these,
apparently...??)

Sure you don't mean a 'Toppy'? ;-)

Not noticed a problem with mine.

--
*Can fat people go skinny-dipping?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Anybody got a DAC they want to sell? Preferably with more than one input
(switchable, coax and/or optical) - don't need to be too posh, it's
only to get sound off my Tommy (PVR) into a stereo amp - I get a little
'heartbeat' problem from the analogue outs! (Common on these,
apparently...??)

Sure you don't mean a 'Toppy'? ;-)



No, a Tommy - the 'heartbeat is a well-known problem and is only hard disk
activity. The quick way out is wang the sound through either of the two
digital outs into a DAC or an AV amp with digital in. I got a Verti with a
view to passing on the Tommy but kept it despite the Verti being better in a
lot of respects - Tommies grow on you!! (The remote is so *slick* compared
with the others!)

Here's some on eBay for loopy prices atm, in case anyone's interested:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/THOMSON-FREEVI...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/THOMSON-FREEVI...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/THOMSON-DHD-40...QQcmdZViewItem




Not noticed a problem with mine.

Swim's got a Toppy - no 'heartbeat' on hers either....

Now I suppose you want to know what a 'Verti' is? :-)

Here's one at a *bargain* price atm (about 170 new):

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...keT rack=true

Arguably the best of the lot with PIP and subby recording &c., but I still
prefer the Tommy....

Subby?

(Sub-titles! ;-)

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

Take 2:

Look and listen closely - digital stuff all suffers from the loss of
that final sharpness, be it sound or images....

Alas, no matter how many 'takes' you make, your theory disagrees with
my experience. :-)

Word Insertion Technique noted - 'theory'...??

Your theory is that **all** "digital stuff" is as you describe.



The word theory doesn't come into it, it's a belief based in my own
experience. I consider it would be a 'theory' if I didn't have that
experience.



Yet in reality you probably haven't listened to *all* recordings.


Now you're just guessing.....

;-)

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

"Keith G" wrote in message


AUDIO BIT:

Anybody got a DAC they want to sell? Preferably with more
than one input (switchable, coax and/or optical) - don't
need to be too posh, it's only to get sound off my Tommy
(PVR) into a stereo amp - I get a little 'heartbeat'
problem from the analogue outs! (Common on these,
apparently...??)


IME the classic really good cheap DACs on the market are the Technics SHAC
300 and SHAC 500. Sold as surround decoders, they do an excellent job on
stereo sources through their front outs. They have amazing resistance to
jitter from dicey sources.

They still come up on the U.S. eBay from time to time. Don't know how many
were ever sold in the UK.

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message


AUDIO BIT:

Anybody got a DAC they want to sell? Preferably with more
than one input (switchable, coax and/or optical) - don't
need to be too posh, it's only to get sound off my Tommy
(PVR) into a stereo amp - I get a little 'heartbeat'
problem from the analogue outs! (Common on these,
apparently...??)


IME the classic really good cheap DACs on the market are the Technics SHAC
300 and SHAC 500. Sold as surround decoders, they do an excellent job on
stereo sources through their front outs. They have amazing resistance to
jitter from dicey sources.

They still come up on the U.S. eBay from time to time. Don't know how many
were ever sold in the UK.



Not too keen on the idea of 'front connectors' for reasons of tidyness. I'm
watching an Arcam, an XTC and an MF on eBay atm.....

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message


AUDIO BIT:

Anybody got a DAC they want to sell? Preferably with
more than one input (switchable, coax and/or optical) -
don't need to be too posh, it's only to get sound off
my Tommy (PVR) into a stereo amp - I get a little
'heartbeat' problem from the analogue outs! (Common on
these, apparently...??)


IME the classic really good cheap DACs on the market are
the Technics SHAC 300 and SHAC 500. Sold as surround
decoders, they do an excellent job on stereo sources
through their front outs. They have amazing resistance
to jitter from dicey sources. They still come up on the U.S. eBay from
time to time.
Don't know how many were ever sold in the UK.



Not too keen on the idea of 'front connectors' for
reasons of tidyness.

Say what?

here's some pix:

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/revi...csSH-AC300.php

I'm watching an Arcam, an XTC and an
MF on eBay atm.....

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message


AUDIO BIT:

Anybody got a DAC they want to sell? Preferably with
more than one input (switchable, coax and/or optical) -
don't need to be too posh, it's only to get sound off
my Tommy (PVR) into a stereo amp - I get a little
'heartbeat' problem from the analogue outs! (Common on
these, apparently...??)


IME the classic really good cheap DACs on the market are
the Technics SHAC 300 and SHAC 500. Sold as surround
decoders, they do an excellent job on stereo sources
through their front outs. They have amazing resistance
to jitter from dicey sources. They still come up on the U.S. eBay from
time to time.
Don't know how many were ever sold in the UK.



Not too keen on the idea of 'front connectors' for
reasons of tidyness.

Say what?

here's some pix:

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/revi...csSH-AC300.php

I'm watching an Arcam, an XTC and an
MF on eBay atm.....



Looks nice (very) but possibly a bit OTT for my purposes - the MF I'm
watching is only 27 nicker atm....

(The XTC is only 62 quid right now, but I expect that to climb before it's
done....)

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...


Look and listen closely - digital stuff all suffers from the loss
of that final sharpness, be it sound or images....

Alas, no matter how many 'takes' you make, your theory disagrees
with my experience. :-)

Word Insertion Technique noted - 'theory'...??

Your theory is that **all** "digital stuff" is as you describe.

The word theory doesn't come into it, it's a belief based in my own
experience. I consider it would be a 'theory' if I didn't have that
experience.

Thus showing that you don't understand the meaning of "theory". :-)

Your statement said nothing about it being your "belief". It was simply a
statement presented as being absolutely correct in fact with no exceptions
or qualifications.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

wrote in message
oups.com...


OTOH I'd say the vast
majority of crappy sounding CDs these days are due to the loudness
wars. (snip)
Scott

That is exactly the situation as I see it. As long as there is pressure
to produce loud, head-banging product, nothing will change.

Iain

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Iain Churches
writes

"Keith G" wrote in message
. ..

wrote in message
ups.com...

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
APR wrote:
I recently, after reading all the posts debating the various merits
of
of CD and LP, went out and bought the latest and greatest budget CD
player, but now have a problem.

I am having difficulty determining how to change the
what-see-me-jiggit
that should allow me to tailor the sound to suit the different types
of
music I want to play. You know how you can change the cartridge in
your
turntable. In the past I had a couple of turntables with different
cartridges mounted in each, and each cartridge had it's strong
points
that resulted in them giving more enjoyment on a particular type of
music.

Is there any way to achieve the same result with a CD player. I am
not
achieving the same nostalgic satisfaction from the CD player that I
achieved from my old turntables.

Best way is to get a selection of blankets and hang them over the
speakers. Several thicknesses should do what you want - but experiment
with different types of music.


Sadly, this will actually help with many CDs.



The trouble with people like Plowie is they don't seem to be able to
hear
just how *blurry* most CDs are.....


Overbright with limited dynamic seems to be the most common complaint.


Yes.. is that a fault of the digital system as such, or what's put into
it?....

The latter I fear, but it may also the reason for some people making the
assumption that vinyl is technically superior in some way. It may even be
the reason that vinyl is still very much alive and kicking, and the focus of
so much interest.

Iain

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...


Look and listen closely - digital stuff all suffers from the loss
of that final sharpness, be it sound or images....

Alas, no matter how many 'takes' you make, your theory disagrees
with my experience. :-)

Word Insertion Technique noted - 'theory'...??

Your theory is that **all** "digital stuff" is as you describe.

The word theory doesn't come into it, it's a belief based in my own
experience. I consider it would be a 'theory' if I didn't have that
experience.

Thus showing that you don't understand the meaning of "theory". :-)



Nonsense. Go see this Dictionary.com entry:

http://dictionary.reference.com/sear...eory&x=54&y=13


And put me down for a 6, 7, some Bombay Potatoes and a Nan bread, if nothing
else....



Your statement said nothing about it being your "belief". It was simply a
statement presented as being absolutely correct in fact with no exceptions
or qualifications.


(Tip for dealing with simple 'enthusiasts' who are not necessarily
*lexicographers* - try to understand what people mean rather than that which
they might actually say.... ;-)

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

Rule 1 of the internet is that when some prat decides to correct another's
spelling or typo he invariably gets it wrong. ;-)

The gentleman's name for the record is John Linsley Hood - or that's the
name on his books. At least one Hi-Fi News article had him as J.L.
Linsley-Hood. Dunno which is correct.


I got the spelling of the name from a German review by Günter
Erhardt. The Germans are usually precise in matters of spelling.

Come to think of it, Dave, surely it would not have been too much
to hope that you, as the owner of the amp, would have got it right in
the first place. Good thing you don't have any Czech or Russian
equipment:-)

Iain

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

Rule 1 of the internet is that when some prat decides to correct
another's spelling or typo he invariably gets it wrong. ;-)

The gentleman's name for the record is John Linsley Hood - or that's
the name on his books. At least one Hi-Fi News article had him as J.L.
Linsley-Hood. Dunno which is correct.


I got the spelling of the name from a German review by Günter
Erhardt. The Germans are usually precise in matters of spelling.

But not in this case, eh? Of course *you* could never have just f**ked up
a spelling.


Come to think of it, Dave, surely it would not have been too much
to hope that you, as the owner of the amp, would have got it right in
the first place. Good thing you don't have any Czech or Russian
equipment:-)

I can just see that Rigonda radiogram having pride of place in your
living room. Valves, after all...

Iain

--
*Money isn't everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

Keith G wrote:

Anybody care to claim 'digital radio' or 'digital TV' is sharper than
analogue?

Digital radio *should* be clearer and more dynamic. Unfortunately
because of the highly limited bitrates on DAB it isn't.

Digital TV... well our analogue signal here is pretty appalling, so it's
a choice of a snowy 4:3 picture with NICAM dropping out... or a clean
and clear 16:9 picture with MPEG (or better still AC3) audio off digital
satellite.

Yes, visual compression artefacts are sometimes irritating. But less so
than constant analogue snow.

Anyone care to claim that 'digital photography' is sharper than 'wet
film'??

Now here I will have to disagree with you. As a keen amateur
photographer (with some pro experience under my belt) I used to use
film... Praktica LTL with 35mm, 50mm, 135mm and 300mm prime focus lenses
in the old days, Olympus OM-101 with 35-70mm, then my last film camera
was a Canon EOS-300V with 28-90mm and 75-300mm zooms.

I then replaced the 300V with a 300D, 6Mpx and the 75-300 from the old
300V fitted it. The depth and clarity of images from this left film
standing (and I'm not talking cheap film here, I always used the likes
of Kodak Supra, Fuji Velvia etc).

I've since upgraded to an EOS-20D, again this is streets ahead of the
300D. As far as photography goes, digital is better.

As to the *sharpness* of LP over CD, even my 'deaf in one ear'
neighbour (who uses CDs all the time) commented on the clarity of the
'analogue sound' from my kit once - and that was before the
Lowthers.....

With audio however... well I was playing some old records - Rega Planar
3, Ortofon cart (can't remember the model no but it's the £55 one),
Pro-Ject Phono Box II, Arcam AVR-250, Mordaunt-Short Avant 7.1 speaker
system - and my thoughts were "I've never heard CD sound this good". In
fact... the pops and crackle are part of the sound with vinyl. It's great!

--
Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735
Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/

IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

"Glenn Richards" wrote in message
. uk...
Keith G wrote:

Anybody care to claim 'digital radio' or 'digital TV' is sharper than
analogue?

Digital radio *should* be clearer and more dynamic. Unfortunately because
of the highly limited bitrates on DAB it isn't.

Digital TV... well our analogue signal here is pretty appalling, so it's a
choice of a snowy 4:3 picture with NICAM dropping out... or a clean and
clear 16:9 picture with MPEG (or better still AC3) audio off digital
satellite.

Yes, visual compression artefacts are sometimes irritating. But less so
than constant analogue snow.


Sure and watching digital TV is better than watching analogue TV with a Pit
Bull Terrier chewing at your arse at the same time! (Snow? - When did you
last see that? Do you *have* an aerial....??)



Anyone care to claim that 'digital photography' is sharper than 'wet
film'??

Now here I will have to disagree with you. As a keen amateur photographer
(with some pro experience under my belt) I used to use film... Praktica
LTL with 35mm, 50mm, 135mm and 300mm prime focus lenses in the old days,
Olympus OM-101 with 35-70mm, then my last film camera was a Canon EOS-300V
with 28-90mm and 75-300mm zooms.


I never made it past a Nikon F4S, a couple of Contax cameras with a range of
Zeiss T* prime focus lenses and a Rollieflex with the f2.8 Planar lens...



I then replaced the 300V with a 300D, 6Mpx and the 75-300 from the old
300V fitted it. The depth and clarity of images from this left film
standing (and I'm not talking cheap film here, I always used the likes of
Kodak Supra, Fuji Velvia etc).

I've since upgraded to an EOS-20D, again this is streets ahead of the
300D. As far as photography goes, digital is better.


I only got a Leica Digilux 1 with the Vario Summicron lens....

.....made by Canon....!! ;-)



As to the *sharpness* of LP over CD, even my 'deaf in one ear'
neighbour (who uses CDs all the time) commented on the clarity of the
'analogue sound' from my kit once - and that was before the
Lowthers.....

With audio however... well I was playing some old records - Rega Planar 3,
Ortofon cart (can't remember the model no but it's the £55 one), Pro-Ject
Phono Box II, Arcam AVR-250, Mordaunt-Short Avant 7.1 speaker system - and
my thoughts were "I've never heard CD sound this good". In fact... the
pops and crackle are part of the sound with vinyl. It's great!


Well, I'm glad you like it - I don't think pops and crackles *are* part of
the sound of vinyl by I can live with it. Gotta say it - you're another one
with very modest vinyl kit, I don't say it's bad but you won't get the
*best* from vinyl with it....???

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

In article ,
Glenn Richards wrote:
Yes, visual compression artefacts are sometimes irritating. But less so
than constant analogue snow.

The same could be said of DAB against hissy or multi-path FM radio. ;-)

--
*If work is so terrific, how come they have to pay you to do it?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The advantage of vinyl playback systems
 

Glenn Richards wrote:

Keith G wrote:

Anybody care to claim 'digital radio' or 'digital TV' is sharper than
analogue?

Digital radio *should* be clearer and more dynamic.

How so ?


Unfortunately
because of the highly limited bitrates on DAB it isn't.

That's part of it for sure.


Digital TV... well our analogue signal here is pretty appalling, so it's
a choice of a snowy 4:3 picture with NICAM dropping out... or a clean
and clear 16:9 picture with MPEG (or better still AC3) audio off digital
satellite.

Which has nothing to do with analogue per se.


Yes, visual compression artefacts are sometimes irritating. But less so
than constant analogue snow.

When digital fails there's simply no usable picture at all. You totally lose
'soft degradation'.


With audio however... well I was playing some old records - Rega Planar
3, Ortofon cart (can't remember the model no but it's the £55 one),
Pro-Ject Phono Box II, Arcam AVR-250, Mordaunt-Short Avant 7.1 speaker
system - and my thoughts were "I've never heard CD sound this good".

Probably because you never tried hard enough ?


In
fact... the pops and crackle are part of the sound with vinyl. It's great!

It's truly horrid ! Thank goodness for banishing both of those to the dustbin of
history.

Graham