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Noise on Project Debut III is back....
For those of you following my saga at
http://www.lordy.org.uk/noise.html, some noise has come back. (see latest mp3 clip at website). It is not as pronounced as the first time but its definitely there. I have not moved or changed any wiring since I hooked up this exchanged deck to my PC. Any ideas or suggestions welcome! (Well almost any... One certain individual can rest assured they are KF'd and can save themselves the effort of typing :) Lordy |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
On 2006-09-03, lordy wrote:
For those of you following my saga at http://www.lordy.org.uk/noise.html, some noise has come back. (see latest mp3 clip at website). It is not as pronounced as the first time but its definitely there. I have not moved or changed any wiring since I hooked up this exchanged deck to my PC. Any ideas or suggestions welcome! (Well almost any... One certain individual can rest assured they are KF'd and can save themselves the effort of typing :) Lordy I'm tempted to go for a Project Xpression2, esp after seeing all that 6Hz stuff on both Debut decks. Lordy |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 00:58:04 GMT, lordy wrote:
On 2006-09-03, lordy wrote: For those of you following my saga at http://www.lordy.org.uk/noise.html, some noise has come back. (see latest mp3 clip at website). It is not as pronounced as the first time but its definitely there. I have not moved or changed any wiring since I hooked up this exchanged deck to my PC. Any ideas or suggestions welcome! (Well almost any... One certain individual can rest assured they are KF'd and can save themselves the effort of typing :) Lordy I'm tempted to go for a Project Xpression2, esp after seeing all that 6Hz stuff on both Debut decks. Lordy I'm tempted to ask why you would go for another Project anything given what you have found. For the same money, scout around Ebay for a deck of much better lineage. I think what you have revealed here (particularly the belt off sounds) is that the deck is simply insufficiently well engineered for your audio requirements. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
On 2006-09-03, Don Pearce wrote:
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 00:58:04 GMT, lordy wrote: On 2006-09-03, lordy wrote: For those of you following my saga at http://www.lordy.org.uk/noise.html, some noise has come back. (see latest mp3 clip at website). It is not as pronounced as the first time but its definitely there. I have not moved or changed any wiring since I hooked up this exchanged deck to my PC. Any ideas or suggestions welcome! (Well almost any... One certain individual can rest assured they are KF'd and can save themselves the effort of typing :) Lordy I'm tempted to go for a Project Xpression2, esp after seeing all that 6Hz stuff on both Debut decks. Lordy I'm tempted to ask why you would go for another Project anything given what you have found. I was thinking the same thing. I couldn't see any alternatives at Richer Sounds in the same price range. For the same money, scout around Ebay for a deck of much better lineage. I could be wrong but I dont like buying 2nd things that are highly mechanical in nature (eg HardDrives, Printers etc). and I'm fairly sensitive to flutter. I think what you have revealed here (particularly the belt off sounds) is that the deck is simply insufficiently well engineered for your audio requirements. That would be my suspicion except this deck seems to get rave reviews everywhere I look, and hardly a bad word said about it. Puzzling. d Lordy |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 11:55:08 GMT, lordy wrote:
On 2006-09-03, Don Pearce wrote: On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 00:58:04 GMT, lordy wrote: On 2006-09-03, lordy wrote: For those of you following my saga at http://www.lordy.org.uk/noise.html, some noise has come back. (see latest mp3 clip at website). It is not as pronounced as the first time but its definitely there. I have not moved or changed any wiring since I hooked up this exchanged deck to my PC. Any ideas or suggestions welcome! (Well almost any... One certain individual can rest assured they are KF'd and can save themselves the effort of typing :) Lordy I'm tempted to go for a Project Xpression2, esp after seeing all that 6Hz stuff on both Debut decks. Lordy I'm tempted to ask why you would go for another Project anything given what you have found. I was thinking the same thing. I couldn't see any alternatives at Richer Sounds in the same price range. For the same money, scout around Ebay for a deck of much better lineage. I could be wrong but I dont like buying 2nd things that are highly mechanical in nature (eg HardDrives, Printers etc). and I'm fairly sensitive to flutter. I think what you have revealed here (particularly the belt off sounds) is that the deck is simply insufficiently well engineered for your audio requirements. That would be my suspicion except this deck seems to get rave reviews everywhere I look, and hardly a bad word said about it. Puzzling. d I've been thinking. I don't know this deck, so I have no idea how flexible the various bits are, but is there any chance that when you put it down on a soft, uneven surface, you are actually pushing the bottom panel up sufficiently to touch the motor chassis? That could easily have this sort of effect. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
On 2006-09-03, Don Pearce wrote:
I've been thinking. I don't know this deck, so I have no idea how flexible the various bits are, but is there any chance that when you put it down on a soft, uneven surface, you are actually pushing the bottom panel up sufficiently to touch the motor chassis? That could easily have this sort of effect. Hi, Just checked with it resting on a firm flat surface, and holding it in mid-air, same noise. Lordy |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 12:22:59 GMT, lordy wrote:
On 2006-09-03, Don Pearce wrote: I've been thinking. I don't know this deck, so I have no idea how flexible the various bits are, but is there any chance that when you put it down on a soft, uneven surface, you are actually pushing the bottom panel up sufficiently to touch the motor chassis? That could easily have this sort of effect. Hi, Just checked with it resting on a firm flat surface, and holding it in mid-air, same noise. Lordy Oh well - worth a try. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
"lordy" wrote in message ... On 2006-09-03, Don Pearce wrote: I've been thinking. I don't know this deck, so I have no idea how flexible the various bits are, but is there any chance that when you put it down on a soft, uneven surface, you are actually pushing the bottom panel up sufficiently to touch the motor chassis? That could easily have this sort of effect. Hi, Just checked with it resting on a firm flat surface, and holding it in mid-air, same noise. This positively screams *transit screws* to me - are you sure you've taken them off?? I have only had experience of one Debut myself but there were no such problems with it. As you say, they have been reviewed many times and many thousands have been sold - I have not seen anything like that noise mentioned *anywhere* and no-one in his right mind would put up with it!! So, unless you have been double unlucky (same batch/same shipment/same fault?) I would say the fault lies with you - try lifting the earth on the computer mains lead (or better yet on an extension lead - **at your own risk**) and see if it helps. I seem to remember having to do that at one time..... Planks like the cheaper Debuts and Regas are never going to be the *quietest* decks and spending your way further up this particular avenue doesn't promise a fix, if you ask me. Also eBay can be a bit of a minefield if you don't know what you are doing so I would try and get the deck you have sorted. Is there somewhere else you can try it - another location or can you borrow another deck to compare? Where are you located? You could bring it here (St Neots, Cambs) and I could 'it it wiv a nammer for you....!! ;-) |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
On 2006-09-03, Keith G wrote:
"lordy" wrote in message ... On 2006-09-03, Don Pearce wrote: I've been thinking. I don't know this deck, so I have no idea how flexible the various bits are, but is there any chance that when you put it down on a soft, uneven surface, you are actually pushing the bottom panel up sufficiently to touch the motor chassis? That could easily have this sort of effect. Hi, Just checked with it resting on a firm flat surface, and holding it in mid-air, same noise. This positively screams *transit screws* to me - are you sure you've taken them off?? Transit screws are off - honest!. Motor is freely suspended on elastic band thingy. In fact just prior to your post I had removed the top of the platter and put an old 7" on the lower platter and rested the stylus on it so I could access the motor whilst turntable was in play position. With the belt off I could feel the same vibration on the motor, and when I pressed the motor to be in transit position the noise was about 10 time louder. (same frequency though!) You want jpegs :) I have only had experience of one Debut myself but there were no such problems with it. As you say, they have been reviewed many times and many thousands have been sold - I have not seen anything like that noise mentioned *anywhere* and no-one in his right mind would put up with it!! So, unless you have been double unlucky (same batch/same shipment/same fault?) I would say the fault lies with you I can see your POV. From my above experiment it is definitely motor vibration coming through and not electrical. - try lifting the earth on the computer mains lead (or better yet on an extension lead - **at your own risk**) and see if it helps. I seem to remember having to do that at one time..... Planks like the cheaper Debuts and Regas are never going to be the *quietest* decks and spending your way further up this particular avenue doesn't promise a fix, if you ask me. Also eBay can be a bit of a minefield if you don't know what you are doing so I would try and get the deck you have sorted. Is there somewhere else you can try it - another location or can you borrow another deck to compare? I'm gonna try to get them to play it at Richer Sounds. or try one last exchange.. Where are you located? You could bring it here (St Neots, Cambs) and I could 'it it wiv a nammer for you....!! ;-) Lordy |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 12:55:35 GMT, lordy wrote:
On 2006-09-03, Keith G wrote: "lordy" wrote in message ... On 2006-09-03, Don Pearce wrote: I've been thinking. I don't know this deck, so I have no idea how flexible the various bits are, but is there any chance that when you put it down on a soft, uneven surface, you are actually pushing the bottom panel up sufficiently to touch the motor chassis? That could easily have this sort of effect. Hi, Just checked with it resting on a firm flat surface, and holding it in mid-air, same noise. This positively screams *transit screws* to me - are you sure you've taken them off?? Transit screws are off - honest!. Motor is freely suspended on elastic band thingy. In fact just prior to your post I had removed the top of the platter and put an old 7" on the lower platter and rested the stylus on it so I could access the motor whilst turntable was in play position. With the belt off I could feel the same vibration on the motor, and when I pressed the motor to be in transit position the noise was about 10 time louder. (same frequency though!) You want jpegs :) I have only had experience of one Debut myself but there were no such problems with it. As you say, they have been reviewed many times and many thousands have been sold - I have not seen anything like that noise mentioned *anywhere* and no-one in his right mind would put up with it!! So, unless you have been double unlucky (same batch/same shipment/same fault?) I would say the fault lies with you I can see your POV. From my above experiment it is definitely motor vibration coming through and not electrical. - try lifting the earth on the computer mains lead (or better yet on an extension lead - **at your own risk**) and see if it helps. I seem to remember having to do that at one time..... Planks like the cheaper Debuts and Regas are never going to be the *quietest* decks and spending your way further up this particular avenue doesn't promise a fix, if you ask me. Also eBay can be a bit of a minefield if you don't know what you are doing so I would try and get the deck you have sorted. Is there somewhere else you can try it - another location or can you borrow another deck to compare? I'm gonna try to get them to play it at Richer Sounds. or try one last exchange.. Where are you located? You could bring it here (St Neots, Cambs) and I could 'it it wiv a nammer for you....!! ;-) Lordy The motor really shouldn't be vibrating at all, certainly tho one in my Systemdek doesn't. It certainly sounds like the suspension is making the best it can of a rather bad situation. So the question is really one of whether all Debut motors are like this, or you have yet another bad one. I really wouldn't bother trying to get the Richer guys to listen to it though - just tell them it is no good. They aren't Hi Fi people so much as box shifters. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
On 2006-09-03, Keith G wrote:
This positively screams *transit screws* to me - are you sure you've taken them off?? Also check my mp3s when I thought it was fixed. I have only had experience of one Debut myself but there were no such problems with it. As you say, they have been reviewed many times and many thousands have been sold - I have not seen anything like that noise mentioned *anywhere* and no-one in his right mind would put up with it!! It could be that some develop this fault after some hours playing? Thats why it sails through auditions. Between my 'fixed' and 'back again' mp3s, I had accidentally left it spinning all night (which is probably a good thing with hindsight). http://www.lordy.org.uk/noise.html A thread in Avforums had two responders saying they had hum. And a 'dealer' suggesting oiling the older debuts? http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=388208 Also, being a budget , first timer deck, its more likely to be bought by people that would put up with it perhaps ??? From someone else an the thread at avforums : "A question I've wondered myself for many years. I had 3 before I got a good one, only for that to do it a few months later." Lordy |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 13:05:44 GMT, lordy wrote:
On 2006-09-03, Keith G wrote: This positively screams *transit screws* to me - are you sure you've taken them off?? Also check my mp3s when I thought it was fixed. I have only had experience of one Debut myself but there were no such problems with it. As you say, they have been reviewed many times and many thousands have been sold - I have not seen anything like that noise mentioned *anywhere* and no-one in his right mind would put up with it!! It could be that some develop this fault after some hours playing? Thats why it sails through auditions. Between my 'fixed' and 'back again' mp3s, I had accidentally left it spinning all night (which is probably a good thing with hindsight). http://www.lordy.org.uk/noise.html A thread in Avforums had two responders saying they had hum. And a 'dealer' suggesting oiling the older debuts? http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=388208 Also, being a budget , first timer deck, its more likely to be bought by people that would put up with it perhaps ??? From someone else an the thread at avforums : "A question I've wondered myself for many years. I had 3 before I got a good one, only for that to do it a few months later." Lordy This is sounding worse and worse. Get your money back and go hunting. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
Don Pearce wrote:
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 12:55:35 GMT, lordy wrote: On 2006-09-03, Keith G wrote: "lordy" wrote in message ... On 2006-09-03, Don Pearce wrote: I've been thinking. I don't know this deck, so I have no idea how flexible the various bits are, but is there any chance that when you put it down on a soft, uneven surface, you are actually pushing the bottom panel up sufficiently to touch the motor chassis? That could easily have this sort of effect. Hi, Just checked with it resting on a firm flat surface, and holding it in mid-air, same noise. This positively screams *transit screws* to me - are you sure you've taken them off?? Transit screws are off - honest!. Motor is freely suspended on elastic band thingy. In fact just prior to your post I had removed the top of the platter and put an old 7" on the lower platter and rested the stylus on it so I could access the motor whilst turntable was in play position. With the belt off I could feel the same vibration on the motor, and when I pressed the motor to be in transit position the noise was about 10 time louder. (same frequency though!) You want jpegs :) I have only had experience of one Debut myself but there were no such problems with it. As you say, they have been reviewed many times and many thousands have been sold - I have not seen anything like that noise mentioned *anywhere* and no-one in his right mind would put up with it!! So, unless you have been double unlucky (same batch/same shipment/same fault?) I would say the fault lies with you I can see your POV. From my above experiment it is definitely motor vibration coming through and not electrical. - try lifting the earth on the computer mains lead (or better yet on an extension lead - **at your own risk**) and see if it helps. I seem to remember having to do that at one time..... Planks like the cheaper Debuts and Regas are never going to be the *quietest* decks and spending your way further up this particular avenue doesn't promise a fix, if you ask me. Also eBay can be a bit of a minefield if you don't know what you are doing so I would try and get the deck you have sorted. Is there somewhere else you can try it - another location or can you borrow another deck to compare? I'm gonna try to get them to play it at Richer Sounds. or try one last exchange.. Where are you located? You could bring it here (St Neots, Cambs) and I could 'it it wiv a nammer for you....!! ;-) Lordy The motor really shouldn't be vibrating at all, certainly tho one in my Systemdek doesn't. It certainly sounds like the suspension is making the best it can of a rather bad situation. So the question is really one of whether all Debut motors are like this, or you have yet another bad one. I've got a Debut III and the motor is slightly audible (feint hum/buzz), but certainly doesn't vibrate/break through as described. I really wouldn't bother trying to get the Richer guys to listen to it though - just tell them it is no good. They aren't Hi Fi people so much as box shifters. They're generally pretty good at taking stuff back IME. Also, I've found the staff to be be quite enthusiastic, and hifi enthusiasts to boot. When I was last in (credit card dangling) I asked about the AV amplifiers 250-800UKP - they didn't push anything but talked me through half a dozen, saying the main difference was badge and features. On the TT I'm not sure of a decent alternative - the Thorens at RS looks OK but I haven't heard it or seen reviews (and it's a fair bit more). If you're in/around S.Yorks you're quite welcome to my Debut - boxed/VG, 50UKP. Rob |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
"lordy" wrote in message ... On 2006-09-03, Keith G wrote: This positively screams *transit screws* to me - are you sure you've taken them off?? Also check my mp3s when I thought it was fixed. I have only had experience of one Debut myself but there were no such problems with it. As you say, they have been reviewed many times and many thousands have been sold - I have not seen anything like that noise mentioned *anywhere* and no-one in his right mind would put up with it!! It could be that some develop this fault after some hours playing? Thats why it sails through auditions. Between my 'fixed' and 'back again' mp3s, I had accidentally left it spinning all night (which is probably a good thing with hindsight). http://www.lordy.org.uk/noise.html A thread in Avforums had two responders saying they had hum. And a 'dealer' suggesting oiling the older debuts? http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=388208 Also, being a budget , first timer deck, its more likely to be bought by people that would put up with it perhaps ??? From someone else an the thread at avforums : "A question I've wondered myself for many years. I had 3 before I got a good one, only for that to do it a few months later." Lordy Oh, Lordy (PABOC) - I'd rather not think my time with a Debut ends on this sad note. When I had one I thought it was good fun and that it positively *sang*! Ludicrous VFM, if not quite the 'Transcription Deck' of choice - although, having said that, I posted a number of tracks from it here and no-one pulled them up for motor noise??? Faulty motors aside, Don has it when he says (WTTE) that your expectations may be too high for the decks you are contemplating. I don't like planks myself - they are only bloody great transducers at best, better are the TTs with massy platters and/or where the motor 'effectively' doesn't exist (Direct Drive) or where the motor is almost totally decoupled from the deck and platter, as in the RPM9 where you could mount the motor unit on the wall if it was ever going to bother you....?? Having said all that, the noise you are experiencing is not acceptable and would not be tolerated by any vinylist I know. Incidentally, the only 'Expression' user I know is actually a Sales Assistant in one of the local shops (upgraded from a secondhand Debut which he used to 'rediscover' vinyl) and, AFAIK, is very pleased with it, so he can't be experiencing too many problems! - Strike that! Make it *two* Sales Assistants from the same shop, if my mate Siny Nigel still has his! (Forgot about that one!) |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
On 2006-09-03, Rob wrote:
Don Pearce wrote: On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 12:55:35 GMT, lordy wrote: On 2006-09-03, Keith G wrote: "lordy" wrote in message ... On 2006-09-03, Don Pearce wrote: I've been thinking. I don't know this deck, so I have no idea how flexible the various bits are, but is there any chance that when you put it down on a soft, uneven surface, you are actually pushing the bottom panel up sufficiently to touch the motor chassis? That could easily have this sort of effect. Hi, Just checked with it resting on a firm flat surface, and holding it in mid-air, same noise. This positively screams *transit screws* to me - are you sure you've taken them off?? Transit screws are off - honest!. Motor is freely suspended on elastic band thingy. In fact just prior to your post I had removed the top of the platter and put an old 7" on the lower platter and rested the stylus on it so I could access the motor whilst turntable was in play position. With the belt off I could feel the same vibration on the motor, and when I pressed the motor to be in transit position the noise was about 10 time louder. (same frequency though!) You want jpegs :) I have only had experience of one Debut myself but there were no such problems with it. As you say, they have been reviewed many times and many thousands have been sold - I have not seen anything like that noise mentioned *anywhere* and no-one in his right mind would put up with it!! So, unless you have been double unlucky (same batch/same shipment/same fault?) I would say the fault lies with you I can see your POV. From my above experiment it is definitely motor vibration coming through and not electrical. - try lifting the earth on the computer mains lead (or better yet on an extension lead - **at your own risk**) and see if it helps. I seem to remember having to do that at one time..... Planks like the cheaper Debuts and Regas are never going to be the *quietest* decks and spending your way further up this particular avenue doesn't promise a fix, if you ask me. Also eBay can be a bit of a minefield if you don't know what you are doing so I would try and get the deck you have sorted. Is there somewhere else you can try it - another location or can you borrow another deck to compare? I'm gonna try to get them to play it at Richer Sounds. or try one last exchange.. Where are you located? You could bring it here (St Neots, Cambs) and I could 'it it wiv a nammer for you....!! ;-) Lordy The motor really shouldn't be vibrating at all, certainly tho one in my Systemdek doesn't. It certainly sounds like the suspension is making the best it can of a rather bad situation. So the question is really one of whether all Debut motors are like this, or you have yet another bad one. I've got a Debut III and the motor is slightly audible (feint hum/buzz), but certainly doesn't vibrate/break through as described. Please check out mp3s at http://www.lordy.org.uk/noise.html and compare to yours. I really wouldn't bother trying to get the Richer guys to listen to it though - just tell them it is no good. They aren't Hi Fi people so much as box shifters. They're generally pretty good at taking stuff back IME. Deck returned - no questions at all this time. IMO at least one question indicates good service :) On the TT I'm not sure of a decent alternative - the Thorens at RS looks OK but I haven't heard it or seen reviews (and it's a fair bit more). I'm tempted to look at the Goldring GR2. Any opinions on this. There is a Sevenoaks HI-Fi across the road from the Richer Sounds (Bromley). I'm tempted to purchase turntables from bricks 'n' Mortar rather than online .. If you're in/around S.Yorks you're quite welcome to my Debut - boxed/VG, 50UKP. SE London I'm afraid! Rob Lordy |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
On 2006-09-03, Keith G wrote:
Faulty motors aside, Don has it when he says (WTTE) that your expectations may be too high for the decks you are contemplating. I don't like planks myself - they are only bloody great transducers at best, better are the TTs with massy platters and/or where the motor 'effectively' doesn't exist (Direct Drive) Are DirectDrive turntables good? I do remeber this was a turntable war in years gone by. An alternative is to get a 2nd hand SL1200 with a good cart. :) I know 1200 has certain features more suited for DJing etc but from a pure hifi perspective where does it rank? Good 1200's have almost zero depreciation. Lordy |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 17:57:23 GMT, lordy wrote:
On 2006-09-03, Keith G wrote: Faulty motors aside, Don has it when he says (WTTE) that your expectations may be too high for the decks you are contemplating. I don't like planks myself - they are only bloody great transducers at best, better are the TTs with massy platters and/or where the motor 'effectively' doesn't exist (Direct Drive) Are DirectDrive turntables good? I do remeber this was a turntable war in years gone by. An alternative is to get a 2nd hand SL1200 with a good cart. :) I know 1200 has certain features more suited for DJing etc but from a pure hifi perspective where does it rank? Good 1200's have almost zero depreciation. Lordy The 1200 is a good TT. Particularly you can hide under it in the event of nuclear war, and you will be safe. If you can find one at a price that suits you, go for it. Direct drive is good, so is belt and pulley. The only one to really avoid is the idler wheel type - very subject to inaccuracies in the idler, which can be a great source of noise. You did mention a Goldring earlier, and you need to have a care. They had a design at one time with a vertical idler wheel that allowed speed adjustment despite a constant speed motor. These were the rumbliest decks I ever heard. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
On 2006-09-03, Don Pearce wrote:
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 17:57:23 GMT, lordy wrote: An alternative is to get a 2nd hand SL1200 with a good cart. :) I know 1200 has certain features more suited for DJing etc but from a pure hifi perspective where does it rank? Good 1200's have almost zero depreciation. Lordy The 1200 is a good TT. Particularly you can hide under it in the event of nuclear war, and you will be safe. If you can find one at a price that suits you, go for it. Alternatively http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=110025295289 :) |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
Don Pearce wrote:
Direct drive is good, so is belt and pulley. The only one to really avoid is the idler wheel type - very subject to inaccuracies in the idler, which can be a great source of noise. You did mention a Goldring earlier, and you need to have a care. They had a design at one time with a vertical idler wheel that allowed speed adjustment despite a constant speed motor. These were the rumbliest decks I ever heard. d Oh, well, I won't suggest you look out for a Lenco then, I guess you never heard one in a better plynth then Don? -- Nick |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 19:23:08 +0100, Nick Gorham
wrote: Don Pearce wrote: Direct drive is good, so is belt and pulley. The only one to really avoid is the idler wheel type - very subject to inaccuracies in the idler, which can be a great source of noise. You did mention a Goldring earlier, and you need to have a care. They had a design at one time with a vertical idler wheel that allowed speed adjustment despite a constant speed motor. These were the rumbliest decks I ever heard. d Oh, well, I won't suggest you look out for a Lenco then, I guess you never heard one in a better plynth then Don? Only on the Goldring plinth. Was there another? And did it make a lot of difference. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
"lordy" wrote in message ... On 2006-09-03, Keith G wrote: Faulty motors aside, Don has it when he says (WTTE) that your expectations may be too high for the decks you are contemplating. I don't like planks myself - they are only bloody great transducers at best, better are the TTs with massy platters and/or where the motor 'effectively' doesn't exist (Direct Drive) Are DirectDrive turntables good? I do remeber this was a turntable war in years gone by. I like them: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/titl...turntables.htm An alternative is to get a 2nd hand SL1200 with a good cart. :) I know 1200 has certain features more suited for DJing etc but from a pure hifi perspective where does it rank? Rock solid build quality with a tonearm which many consider to be 'limited' - never bothered me though, I hafta say and my SL-1210 would track my Sure V15/V *all the way over* at one gram well enough. Not considered 'high end' and none too cheap new at about 350 quid.... Good 1200's have almost zero depreciation. .....exactly and, tough as they are, some of the secondhand offerings could have more than a couple of decades of DJ'ing behind them. Check this eBay search for Technics turntables: http://electronics.search.ebay.co.uk...1QQsacatZ48647 There are a couple of SL-3200s for *nowt* - I have one sitting next to my monitor, as I type (it will **** on a Debut for a fraction of the money), there are a couple of SL-DL1 linear trackers I wouldn't chuck out of bed, an SL-150 that needs a tonearm that (I'd buy that bugger myself) and a nice little SL-Q303 that benefits from Quartz Lock speed control and is BIN for cheaper than a curry but needs a headshell/cart (I have a bucketful of these if you needed summat cheap) - how can you go wrong? Make your selection and post the link here and we'll scrute it for you. Expect scratched/hazy lids on cheap eBay DDs - comes with the territory and if ever you buy from an eBay wattock, make sure he knows how to ship a deck or go collect it, if you can! |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
Don Pearce wrote:
Oh, well, I won't suggest you look out for a Lenco then, I guess you never heard one in a better plynth then Don? Only on the Goldring plinth. Was there another? And did it make a lot of difference. At the time, no, only the hollow wooden box they seemed to like putting them in. A lot of folk now have taken them and put them in high mass plinths with some success. I am not sure mine is that quiet an example. http://www.lurcher.org/nick/audio/ob/rumble.mp3 Interestingly while making that sample, I noticed a strange boing in between tracks. It seems to be on the recording, as its there every time I play it. Any ideas anyone? http://www.lurcher.org/nick/audio/ob/boing.mp3 -- Nick |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 19:54:26 +0100, Nick Gorham
wrote: Don Pearce wrote: Oh, well, I won't suggest you look out for a Lenco then, I guess you never heard one in a better plynth then Don? Only on the Goldring plinth. Was there another? And did it make a lot of difference. At the time, no, only the hollow wooden box they seemed to like putting them in. A lot of folk now have taken them and put them in high mass plinths with some success. I am not sure mine is that quiet an example. http://www.lurcher.org/nick/audio/ob/rumble.mp3 An awful lot better than poor old Lordy's deck, however bad it may be. Still a fair amount of rumble going on there, though. Interestingly while making that sample, I noticed a strange boing in between tracks. It seems to be on the recording, as its there every time I play it. Any ideas anyone? http://www.lurcher.org/nick/audio/ob/boing.mp3 That boing is almost certainly a small coil spring doing its thing somewhere underneath. It probably once had a damping sleeve round it that has since fallen off, rotted away or whatever. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
"Keith G" wrote http://electronics.search.ebay.co.uk...1QQsacatZ48647 There are a couple of SL-3200s for *nowt* - I have one sitting next to my monitor, as I type (it will **** on a Debut for a fraction of the money), there are a couple of SL-DL1 linear trackers I wouldn't chuck out of bed, an SL-150 that needs a tonearm that (I'd buy that bugger myself) and a nice little SL-Q303 that benefits from Quartz Lock speed control and is BIN for cheaper than a curry but needs a headshell/cart (I have a bucketful of these if you needed summat cheap) - how can you go wrong? Make your selection and post the link here and we'll scrute it for you. Expect scratched/hazy lids on cheap eBay DDs - comes with the territory and if ever you buy from an eBay wattock, make sure he knows how to ship a deck or go collect it, if you can! Here is 25 seconds of unmodulated groove (HFS69, last track, Side 2), run out and auto liftoff on my own Technics SL-3200 DD deck with plenty enough spitch (Shure V15/III) to prove it's running, via a little 30 quid Pioneer SA-510 amplifier, using its own SS Phono Stage: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/unmodulated.mp3 (approx 800K) It cost me 46 quid including a very nice Ortofon VMS30/II MM cart - now, unless I'm missing summat, that's plenty quiet/cheap enough for a bit of budget LP to PC - no...??? ;-) |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
On Sun, 3 Sep 2006 20:53:31 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote: "Keith G" wrote http://electronics.search.ebay.co.uk...1QQsacatZ48647 There are a couple of SL-3200s for *nowt* - I have one sitting next to my monitor, as I type (it will **** on a Debut for a fraction of the money), there are a couple of SL-DL1 linear trackers I wouldn't chuck out of bed, an SL-150 that needs a tonearm that (I'd buy that bugger myself) and a nice little SL-Q303 that benefits from Quartz Lock speed control and is BIN for cheaper than a curry but needs a headshell/cart (I have a bucketful of these if you needed summat cheap) - how can you go wrong? Make your selection and post the link here and we'll scrute it for you. Expect scratched/hazy lids on cheap eBay DDs - comes with the territory and if ever you buy from an eBay wattock, make sure he knows how to ship a deck or go collect it, if you can! Here is 25 seconds of unmodulated groove (HFS69, last track, Side 2), run out and auto liftoff on my own Technics SL-3200 DD deck with plenty enough spitch (Shure V15/III) to prove it's running, via a little 30 quid Pioneer SA-510 amplifier, using its own SS Phono Stage: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/unmodulated.mp3 (approx 800K) It cost me 46 quid including a very nice Ortofon VMS30/II MM cart - now, unless I'm missing summat, that's plenty quiet/cheap enough for a bit of budget LP to PC - no...??? ;-) Plenty quiet, as you say. But were you walking around while that was playing? I could hear some very low thumping noises going on that didn't sound record-related. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
Don Pearce wrote:
Interestingly while making that sample, I noticed a strange boing in between tracks. It seems to be on the recording, as its there every time I play it. Any ideas anyone? http://www.lurcher.org/nick/audio/ob/boing.mp3 That boing is almost certainly a small coil spring doing its thing somewhere underneath. It probably once had a damping sleeve round it that has since fallen off, rotted away or whatever. d Yes, that would be the obvious thing, and what I thought, except, it happens at the same place on the recording, every time I try it!!! -- Nick |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
"Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Sun, 3 Sep 2006 20:53:31 +0100, "Keith G" wrote: "Keith G" wrote http://electronics.search.ebay.co.uk...1QQsacatZ48647 There are a couple of SL-3200s for *nowt* - I have one sitting next to my monitor, as I type (it will **** on a Debut for a fraction of the money), there are a couple of SL-DL1 linear trackers I wouldn't chuck out of bed, an SL-150 that needs a tonearm that (I'd buy that bugger myself) and a nice little SL-Q303 that benefits from Quartz Lock speed control and is BIN for cheaper than a curry but needs a headshell/cart (I have a bucketful of these if you needed summat cheap) - how can you go wrong? Make your selection and post the link here and we'll scrute it for you. Expect scratched/hazy lids on cheap eBay DDs - comes with the territory and if ever you buy from an eBay wattock, make sure he knows how to ship a deck or go collect it, if you can! Here is 25 seconds of unmodulated groove (HFS69, last track, Side 2), run out and auto liftoff on my own Technics SL-3200 DD deck with plenty enough spitch (Shure V15/III) to prove it's running, via a little 30 quid Pioneer SA-510 amplifier, using its own SS Phono Stage: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/unmodulated.mp3 (approx 800K) It cost me 46 quid including a very nice Ortofon VMS30/II MM cart - now, unless I'm missing summat, that's plenty quiet/cheap enough for a bit of budget LP to PC - no...??? ;-) Plenty quiet, as you say. But were you walking around while that was playing? I could hear some very low thumping noises going on that didn't sound record-related. I had to put the phones on to hear that (Swim's got the telly on - watching Monty Don!) - it's odd, kinda regular/kinda not?? Might be the bearing I suppose - I class it as *quiet* but none is truly *silent* in the final analysis?? (Otherwise, no idea..!!??) Perhaps I'll record summat else later on to see if it's still there.... |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 21:18:04 +0100, Nick Gorham
wrote: Don Pearce wrote: Interestingly while making that sample, I noticed a strange boing in between tracks. It seems to be on the recording, as its there every time I play it. Any ideas anyone? http://www.lurcher.org/nick/audio/ob/boing.mp3 That boing is almost certainly a small coil spring doing its thing somewhere underneath. It probably once had a damping sleeve round it that has since fallen off, rotted away or whatever. d Yes, that would be the obvious thing, and what I thought, except, it happens at the same place on the recording, every time I try it!!! Only that recording? Oh well, it is almost certainly a small coil spring doing its thing somewhere underneath the cutting lathe! d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
On Sun, 3 Sep 2006 21:21:40 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote: "Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Sun, 3 Sep 2006 20:53:31 +0100, "Keith G" wrote: "Keith G" wrote http://electronics.search.ebay.co.uk...1QQsacatZ48647 There are a couple of SL-3200s for *nowt* - I have one sitting next to my monitor, as I type (it will **** on a Debut for a fraction of the money), there are a couple of SL-DL1 linear trackers I wouldn't chuck out of bed, an SL-150 that needs a tonearm that (I'd buy that bugger myself) and a nice little SL-Q303 that benefits from Quartz Lock speed control and is BIN for cheaper than a curry but needs a headshell/cart (I have a bucketful of these if you needed summat cheap) - how can you go wrong? Make your selection and post the link here and we'll scrute it for you. Expect scratched/hazy lids on cheap eBay DDs - comes with the territory and if ever you buy from an eBay wattock, make sure he knows how to ship a deck or go collect it, if you can! Here is 25 seconds of unmodulated groove (HFS69, last track, Side 2), run out and auto liftoff on my own Technics SL-3200 DD deck with plenty enough spitch (Shure V15/III) to prove it's running, via a little 30 quid Pioneer SA-510 amplifier, using its own SS Phono Stage: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/unmodulated.mp3 (approx 800K) It cost me 46 quid including a very nice Ortofon VMS30/II MM cart - now, unless I'm missing summat, that's plenty quiet/cheap enough for a bit of budget LP to PC - no...??? ;-) Plenty quiet, as you say. But were you walking around while that was playing? I could hear some very low thumping noises going on that didn't sound record-related. I had to put the phones on to hear that (Swim's got the telly on - watching Monty Don!) - it's odd, kinda regular/kinda not?? Might be the bearing I suppose - I class it as *quiet* but none is truly *silent* in the final analysis?? (Otherwise, no idea..!!??) Perhaps I'll record summat else later on to see if it's still there.... You need to get building that sub! I could hear it plain as day through speakers. I'm not convinced it was originating in the deck at all. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
Don Pearce wrote:
http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/unmodulated.mp3 (approx 800K) It cost me 46 quid including a very nice Ortofon VMS30/II MM cart - now, unless I'm missing summat, that's plenty quiet/cheap enough for a bit of budget LP to PC - no...??? ;-) Plenty quiet, as you say. But were you walking around while that was playing? I could hear some very low thumping noises going on that didn't sound record-related. d Compairing that to similar here, I would say you are about 3-6db quieter. It does show I have some hum to fix though. Keith: http://www.lurcher.org/nick/audio/ob/dd-noise.jpg Me: http://www.lurcher.org/nick/audio/ob/lenco-noise.jpg I have a nasty feeling that hum is motor induced, with the input to the phono stage disconnected, it a lot less, but still more than I want. http://www.lurcher.org/nick/audio/ob/phono-nose.jpg I will try moving the PC next to the phono stage some time, as there is still hum with the phono powered down. http://www.lurcher.org/nick/audio/ob...background.jpg -- Nick |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
"Don Pearce" wrote I had to put the phones on to hear that (Swim's got the telly on - watching Monty Don!) - it's odd, kinda regular/kinda not?? Might be the bearing I suppose - I class it as *quiet* but none is truly *silent* in the final analysis?? (Otherwise, no idea..!!??) Perhaps I'll record summat else later on to see if it's still there.... You need to get building that sub! I could hear it plain as day through speakers. Relax - so could I, now that Monty Don's gone!! I tell ya - I'm just about keeping in front of him with his veggie plots and sodding *dripfeed irrigation*..... (Think butts... ;-) I'm not convinced it was originating in the deck at all. I think it has to be, it's so 'rhythmic'. I'll do the end of summat else in a moment...... |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
"Keith G" wrote I think it has to be, it's so 'rhythmic'. I'll do the end of summat else in a moment...... OK, here's the end of an 'easy listening' disc (a typically 'warts and all', unedited clip) which segues from the last bit of 'Orange Juice' (which I didn't have the heart to trim off) to a track called 'Belladonna' and then up and off - actually, it serves to show how diverse these compilations can be! http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...Belladonna.mp3 Now, other than a few farts and pops (and a strip of torn cotton right at the end) I couldn't hear anything totally untoward? The cart was swapped to the Orto VMS30/III that came with the deck and which seems to suit it! (Old friends? :-) |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
On 2006-09-03, Keith G wrote:
a track called 'Belladonna' I saw 'BellaDonna' and for some reason I was expecting avi :) Lordy |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
"lordy" wrote in message ... On 2006-09-03, Keith G wrote: a track called 'Belladonna' I saw 'BellaDonna' and for some reason I was expecting avi :) OK, here's an avi - the last few notes of the actual recording taken with a 'still' camera's 'movie' function: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Belladona.avi Excuse the background noise - the camera's a bit oversensitive and some of us are working in less than 'perfect recording studio' environments! (I think the washing machine was on!) Now, you've had lots of advice and said not a lot by way of response - what's your thinking now? Note that the tt in the video clip cost 46 quid (plus P%P) including a better cart than you get on the new ProJects! |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
On 2006-09-04, Keith G wrote:
"lordy" wrote in message ... On 2006-09-03, Keith G wrote: a track called 'Belladonna' I saw 'BellaDonna' and for some reason I was expecting avi :) OK, here's an avi - the last few notes of the actual recording taken with a 'still' camera's 'movie' function: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Belladona.avi Ooops that was a bad joke on my part. Belladonna is a pornstar - so I've heard. Excuse the background noise - the camera's a bit oversensitive and some of us are working in less than 'perfect recording studio' environments! (I think the washing machine was on!) Now, you've had lots of advice and said not a lot by way of response - what's your thinking now? My thinking was to look for an SL1210. Although they are not cheap, something black would be nice. But a stop gap SL3200 would probably fit the bill until I decide whether a turntable will be a permanent fixture in the living room or not! Thanks for the advice. Come to think of it , Note that the tt in the video clip cost 46 quid (plus P%P) including a better cart than you get on the new ProJects! At that price I could probably take some spray paint & lacquer to it.. Thanks for advice and suggestions thus far! Right beddie byes for me, have to travel across London tomorrow morning, and the traffic will be approaching 'school holidays are over' levels... Lordy |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
On 2006-09-03, Keith G wrote:
"lordy" wrote in message ... On 2006-09-03, Keith G wrote: Faulty motors aside, Don has it when he says (WTTE) that your expectations may be too high for the decks you are contemplating. I don't like planks myself - they are only bloody great transducers at best, better are the TTs with massy platters and/or where the motor 'effectively' doesn't exist (Direct Drive) Are DirectDrive turntables good? I do remeber this was a turntable war in years gone by. I like them: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/titl...turntables.htm An alternative is to get a 2nd hand SL1200 with a good cart. :) I know 1200 has certain features more suited for DJing etc but from a pure hifi perspective where does it rank? Rock solid build quality with a tonearm which many consider to be 'limited' - never bothered me though, I hafta say and my SL-1210 would track my Sure V15/V *all the way over* at one gram well enough. Not considered 'high end' and none too cheap new at about 350 quid.... Good 1200's have almost zero depreciation. ....exactly and, tough as they are, some of the secondhand offerings could have more than a couple of decades of DJ'ing behind them. Check this eBay search for Technics turntables: http://electronics.search.ebay.co.uk...1QQsacatZ48647 Any idea what this is Ebay Item 270023393914 I swear my brother had that exact same turntable about 10 years ago and no way He'd pay more than £200 for a new turntable. Owner reckons £400 which puts it in SL1200/10 territory. Hmmm.. Lordy |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
On Sun, 3 Sep 2006 23:15:26 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote: "Keith G" wrote I think it has to be, it's so 'rhythmic'. I'll do the end of summat else in a moment...... OK, here's the end of an 'easy listening' disc (a typically 'warts and all', unedited clip) which segues from the last bit of 'Orange Juice' (which I didn't have the heart to trim off) to a track called 'Belladonna' and then up and off - actually, it serves to show how diverse these compilations can be! http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...Belladonna.mp3 Now, other than a few farts and pops (and a strip of torn cotton right at the end) I couldn't hear anything totally untoward? The cart was swapped to the Orto VMS30/III that came with the deck and which seems to suit it! (Old friends? :-) Yup - all the lumps and bumps have gone. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
"Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Sun, 3 Sep 2006 23:15:26 +0100, "Keith G" wrote: Now, other than a few farts and pops (and a strip of torn cotton right at the end) I couldn't hear anything totally untoward? The cart was swapped to the Orto VMS30/III that came with the deck and which seems to suit it! (Old friends? :-) Yup - all the lumps and bumps have gone. Good - suggests that the deck's not contributing *too much* to the mix..!! |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
"lordy" wrote in message ... On 2006-09-04, Keith G wrote: "lordy" wrote in message ... On 2006-09-03, Keith G wrote: a track called 'Belladonna' I saw 'BellaDonna' and for some reason I was expecting avi :) OK, here's an avi - the last few notes of the actual recording taken with a 'still' camera's 'movie' function: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Belladona.avi Ooops that was a bad joke on my part. Belladonna is a pornstar - so I've heard. OK. My 'petname' for my WAD KiT88 amp is 'Johnny WAD' - I gather he's a porn star also!! :-) Now, you've had lots of advice and said not a lot by way of response - what's your thinking now? My thinking was to look for an SL1210. Although they are not cheap, something black would be nice. But a stop gap SL3200 would probably fit the bill until I decide whether a turntable will be a permanent fixture in the living room or not! Thanks for the advice. Come to think of it , I'm not peddling the SL3200 in particular, it just so happens there's a couple on eBay atm and I've got one myself. If I had to 'rcommend' an eBay Technics deck on a price/performance basis it would probably be the SL1600/1700/1800 series - fully auto, semi auto, manual variants of the same deck - based, I believe, on the original SL1300?? But you won't go far wrong with any Technics, Pioneer or Denon DD deck that *looks* the part on eBay - trouble is you don't know what they're like until you get them! The trick is to try and get one where the cart's worth having anyway!! |
Noise on Project Debut III is back....
"lordy" wrote Any idea what this is Ebay Item 270023393914 I swear my brother had that exact same turntable about 10 years ago and no way He'd pay more than £200 for a new turntable. Owner reckons £400 which puts it in SL1200/10 territory. Hmmm.. That looks like a) a deck which did *not* cost 400 quid new and b) a deck that I wouldn't want myself (no universal headshell and I suspect it's a 'belter').... See if you can find it he http://www.vintagetechnics.com/menu.htm |
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