Village Hall audio
 

Can anyone offer advice, please.

Our village hall (about 20m x 6m but very high roof) has what I thought
an adequate PA setup - a Shure hand-held radio microphone feeding a
decent PA amplifier (Carlsboro) feeding four Wharfedale Linton speakers
which are mounted (two on each wall), about 4m up and 5m apart - where
the eaves meet the walls, angled downwards.

The current setup is fine for playing music for kids to dance to. But
some of our older users have complained that speech sounds sound rather
"muffled". I can't sense a real problem myself, but have to admit that
the sound is not as clean as I have heard from good PA systems that use
a pair of speakers at say 2m above the ground. The question is whether
the problem is likely to be the speakers or their position.

A website on PA systems suggested that path differences of up to 50ms
(ie about 17m) are not a problem on intelligibility (our path
difference is 15ms at the very worst). Is that right?

I'd welcome suggestions as to whether we would do better to replace the
existing high-level speakers with PA speakers in the same position, or
to buy a pair of stand-mounted PA speakers for use when talks are being
given.

(As a multi-purpose hall, permanent mounting of speakers at lower level
doesn't look like a viable option).

John Geddes
Derbyshire

Village Hall audio
 

On 4 Sep 2006 06:13:16 -0700, wrote:

Can anyone offer advice, please.

Our village hall (about 20m x 6m but very high roof) has what I thought
an adequate PA setup - a Shure hand-held radio microphone feeding a
decent PA amplifier (Carlsboro) feeding four Wharfedale Linton speakers
which are mounted (two on each wall), about 4m up and 5m apart - where
the eaves meet the walls, angled downwards.

The current setup is fine for playing music for kids to dance to. But
some of our older users have complained that speech sounds sound rather
"muffled". I can't sense a real problem myself, but have to admit that
the sound is not as clean as I have heard from good PA systems that use
a pair of speakers at say 2m above the ground. The question is whether
the problem is likely to be the speakers or their position.

A website on PA systems suggested that path differences of up to 50ms
(ie about 17m) are not a problem on intelligibility (our path
difference is 15ms at the very worst). Is that right?

I'd welcome suggestions as to whether we would do better to replace the
existing high-level speakers with PA speakers in the same position, or
to buy a pair of stand-mounted PA speakers for use when talks are being
given.

(As a multi-purpose hall, permanent mounting of speakers at lower level
doesn't look like a viable option).

John Geddes
Derbyshire

The problem is that you are asking it to do two very different jobs.
The easy one is, as you say, providing something reasonably loud for
dancing; I don't suppose the local kids expect London club levels of
music - particularly the bass, and if they have any complaints, they
probably don't have the vocabulary to articulate them

The other function is speech reinforcement, and here the job is not to
be loud, but clear. Putting speakers up high is always going to be a
problem for that - what people hear mostly is reverberation, the very
opposite of what you need. As you suggest, some stand mounts placed
either side halfway down the hall would be good. In setting them up,
try and make them only very little louder than the speaker, merely
reinforcing slightly what is already there. With the distances you
have you should just about get away without the added expense of a
delay, although that would be the icing on the cake. How deep are the
local pockets?

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Village Hall audio
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
Can anyone offer advice, please.

Our village hall (about 20m x 6m but very high roof) has what I thought
an adequate PA setup - a Shure hand-held radio microphone feeding a
decent PA amplifier (Carlsboro) feeding four Wharfedale Linton speakers
which are mounted (two on each wall), about 4m up and 5m apart - where
the eaves meet the walls, angled downwards.

The current setup is fine for playing music for kids to dance to. But
some of our older users have complained that speech sounds sound rather
"muffled". I can't sense a real problem myself, but have to admit that
the sound is not as clean as I have heard from good PA systems that use
a pair of speakers at say 2m above the ground. The question is whether
the problem is likely to be the speakers or their position.

A website on PA systems suggested that path differences of up to 50ms
(ie about 17m) are not a problem on intelligibility (our path
difference is 15ms at the very worst). Is that right?

I'd welcome suggestions as to whether we would do better to replace the
existing high-level speakers with PA speakers in the same position, or
to buy a pair of stand-mounted PA speakers for use when talks are being
given.

(As a multi-purpose hall, permanent mounting of speakers at lower level
doesn't look like a viable option).



I have seen a pic on the Net of a pair of Jerichos up in the rafters in a
village hall somewhere (above normal ceiling height in the open roofspace) -
a pair of those with the right drivers in 'em would cut through the earwax!!

Village Hall audio
 

On 4 Sep 2006 06:13:16 -0700, wrote:

Our village hall (about 20m x 6m but very high roof) has what I thought
an adequate PA setup - a Shure hand-held radio microphone feeding a
decent PA amplifier (Carlsboro) feeding four Wharfedale Linton speakers
which are mounted (two on each wall), about 4m up and 5m apart - where
the eaves meet the walls, angled downwards.

The current setup is fine for playing music for kids to dance to. But
some of our older users have complained that speech sounds sound rather
"muffled". I can't sense a real problem myself, but have to admit that
the sound is not as clean as I have heard from good PA systems that use
a pair of speakers at say 2m above the ground. The question is whether
the problem is likely to be the speakers or their position.

It's a fair possibility that the tweeters blew out on the first dance
session, or the first time the mic produced a blast of feedback. Apart
from the question of positioning, domestic hi-fi speakers are not
rugged enough for PA use.

Village Hall audio
 

wrote:

Can anyone offer advice, please.

Our village hall (about 20m x 6m but very high roof) has what I thought
an adequate PA setup - a Shure hand-held radio microphone feeding a
decent PA amplifier (Carlsboro) feeding four Wharfedale Linton speakers
which are mounted (two on each wall), about 4m up and 5m apart - where
the eaves meet the walls, angled downwards.

A fundamental problem here is that you're using 'hi-fi' loudspeakers for a PA.

I guess there's no budget to change this ?

Graham

Village Hall audio
 

In article ,
Laurence Payne lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote:
It's a fair possibility that the tweeters blew out on the first dance
session, or the first time the mic produced a blast of feedback. Apart
from the question of positioning, domestic hi-fi speakers are not
rugged enough for PA use.

Indeed. If desperate to use them for this include a low cost compressor/
limiter in the chain.

--
*Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Village Hall audio
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Laurence Payne lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote:
It's a fair possibility that the tweeters blew out on the first dance
session, or the first time the mic produced a blast of feedback. Apart
from the question of positioning, domestic hi-fi speakers are not
rugged enough for PA use.

Indeed. If desperate to use them for this include a low cost compressor/
limiter in the chain.

That still won't help them in the case of a bad dose of feedback.

You need speakers that area bit more rugged ( and efficient ) for P:A.

Graham

Village Hall audio
 

In article ,
Eeyore wrote:
Indeed. If desperate to use them for this include a low cost
compressor/ limiter in the chain.

That still won't help them in the case of a bad dose of feedback.

It'll certainly help if the limiter is correctly set, but nothing can
really protect speakers from gross abuse. However, they seem to have
survived a few discos...

--
*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Village Hall audio
 

In article .com,
wrote:
The current setup is fine for playing music for kids to dance to. But
some of our older users have complained that speech sounds sound rather
"muffled". I can't sense a real problem myself, but have to admit that
the sound is not as clean as I have heard from good PA systems that use
a pair of speakers at say 2m above the ground. The question is whether
the problem is likely to be the speakers or their position.

Well, is the speech from the mic muffled? If so you need to 'eq' it - cut
the bass and boost the mid range.

--
*I didn't drive my husband crazy -- I flew him there -- it was faster

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Village Hall audio
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Eeyore wrote:
Indeed. If desperate to use them for this include a low cost
compressor/ limiter in the chain.

That still won't help them in the case of a bad dose of feedback.

It'll certainly help if the limiter is correctly set, but nothing can
really protect speakers from gross abuse. However, they seem to have
survived a few discos...

A decently designed PA speaker will accomadate much more energy in the HF band
than any hi-fi one though.

Graham

Village Hall audio
 

Thanks to all for really helpful responses. To answer:

- I don't think that the hifi speakers have been wrecked by high volume
(discos have used systems brought in by DJ - music use has been primary
kids dancing for plays etc), but it does sound as if PA speakers are
going to be a good idea.

We can find some money for new speakers - we have some cash ourselves,
and a lottery bid is a possibility.

What sort of size of PA speakers should I be looking for, and how much
do people reckon we need to spend:

- for a stand-mounted pair of speakers to serve a seated audience of
60?

OR

- for four roof-mounted speakers?


Hall is 6m x 20m - roof has open eaves - walls are 4m high, to top of
eaves is about another 4m.

(I am going to leave the sound-quality-vs-convenience tradeoff to the
Management Committee so want to cost both options).


John Geddes
Derbyshire

Village Hall audio
 

On 5 Sep 2006 03:26:38 -0700, wrote:


- I don't think that the hifi speakers have been wrecked by high volume

But have you checked?

Village Hall audio
 

Laurence Payne wrote:

On 5 Sep 2006 03:26:38 -0700, wrote:


- I don't think that the hifi speakers have been wrecked by high volume

But have you checked?

Sorry for sloppy wording. Yes, I did check - listened to some classical
music on the system and it sounded pretty decent.

John

Village Hall audio
 

In article . com,
wrote:
Sorry for sloppy wording. Yes, I did check - listened to some classical
music on the system and it sounded pretty decent.

If the speakers sound fine on music - and I'm assuming your hearing and
perception is fine - then it must be the mic that is at fault. Cardoid
mics tip up the bass end when used close which might be the cause of the
woolly sound. But changing half decent domestic speakers for PA ones ain't
going to improve speech quality or clarity.

--
*Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Village Hall audio
 

On 6 Sep 2006 12:28:04 -0700, wrote:

Sorry for sloppy wording. Yes, I did check - listened to some classical
music on the system and it sounded pretty decent.

So should voice then. Sure the mic isn't knackered, or silly settings
on the amp? Whenever I walk into a community-hall sort of place I
marvel at just how WRONG someone's managed to set the sound up :-)

Village Hall audio
 

Laurence Payne wrote:

On 6 Sep 2006 12:28:04 -0700, wrote:

Sorry for sloppy wording. Yes, I did check - listened to some classical
music on the system and it sounded pretty decent.

So should voice then. Sure the mic isn't knackered, or silly settings
on the amp? Whenever I walk into a community-hall sort of place I
marvel at just how WRONG someone's managed to set the sound up :-)

'Hi-fi' speakers make for lousy 'PA' despite how good they may sound on music.

This is clearly the major problem.

Graham

Village Hall audio
 

In article ,
Eeyore wrote:
'Hi-fi' speakers make for lousy 'PA' despite how good they may sound on
music.

This ain't so. PA speakers may be more 'bomb proof', but that's the only
improvement. Any tailored response they may have to improve clarity can
also be applied to wide range speakers by different methods. The important
thing to avoid is over driving through the wide dynamics of differing
voice levels and mic techniques.

--
*Why are a wise man and a wise guy opposites? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.