Can anyone offer advice, please.

Our village hall (about 20m x 6m but very high roof) has what I thought
an adequate PA setup - a Shure hand-held radio microphone feeding a
decent PA amplifier (Carlsboro) feeding four Wharfedale Linton speakers
which are mounted (two on each wall), about 4m up and 5m apart - where
the eaves meet the walls, angled downwards.

The current setup is fine for playing music for kids to dance to. But
some of our older users have complained that speech sounds sound rather
"muffled". I can't sense a real problem myself, but have to admit that
the sound is not as clean as I have heard from good PA systems that use
a pair of speakers at say 2m above the ground. The question is whether
the problem is likely to be the speakers or their position.

A website on PA systems suggested that path differences of up to 50ms
(ie about 17m) are not a problem on intelligibility (our path
difference is 15ms at the very worst). Is that right?

I'd welcome suggestions as to whether we would do better to replace the
existing high-level speakers with PA speakers in the same position, or
to buy a pair of stand-mounted PA speakers for use when talks are being
given.

(As a multi-purpose hall, permanent mounting of speakers at lower level
doesn't look like a viable option).

John Geddes
Derbyshire

On 4 Sep 2006 06:13:16 -0700, wrote:

Can anyone offer advice, please.

Our village hall (about 20m x 6m but very high roof) has what I thought
an adequate PA setup - a Shure hand-held radio microphone feeding a
decent PA amplifier (Carlsboro) feeding four Wharfedale Linton speakers
which are mounted (two on each wall), about 4m up and 5m apart - where
the eaves meet the walls, angled downwards.

The current setup is fine for playing music for kids to dance to. But
some of our older users have complained that speech sounds sound rather
"muffled". I can't sense a real problem myself, but have to admit that
the sound is not as clean as I have heard from good PA systems that use
a pair of speakers at say 2m above the ground. The question is whether
the problem is likely to be the speakers or their position.

A website on PA systems suggested that path differences of up to 50ms
(ie about 17m) are not a problem on intelligibility (our path
difference is 15ms at the very worst). Is that right?

I'd welcome suggestions as to whether we would do better to replace the
existing high-level speakers with PA speakers in the same position, or
to buy a pair of stand-mounted PA speakers for use when talks are being
given.

(As a multi-purpose hall, permanent mounting of speakers at lower level
doesn't look like a viable option).

John Geddes
Derbyshire

The problem is that you are asking it to do two very different jobs.
The easy one is, as you say, providing something reasonably loud for
dancing; I don't suppose the local kids expect London club levels of
music - particularly the bass, and if they have any complaints, they
probably don't have the vocabulary to articulate them

The other function is speech reinforcement, and here the job is not to
be loud, but clear. Putting speakers up high is always going to be a
problem for that - what people hear mostly is reverberation, the very
opposite of what you need. As you suggest, some stand mounts placed
either side halfway down the hall would be good. In setting them up,
try and make them only very little louder than the speaker, merely
reinforcing slightly what is already there. With the distances you
have you should just about get away without the added expense of a
delay, although that would be the icing on the cake. How deep are the
local pockets?

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

wrote in message
oups.com...
Can anyone offer advice, please.

Our village hall (about 20m x 6m but very high roof) has what I thought
an adequate PA setup - a Shure hand-held radio microphone feeding a
decent PA amplifier (Carlsboro) feeding four Wharfedale Linton speakers
which are mounted (two on each wall), about 4m up and 5m apart - where
the eaves meet the walls, angled downwards.

The current setup is fine for playing music for kids to dance to. But
some of our older users have complained that speech sounds sound rather
"muffled". I can't sense a real problem myself, but have to admit that
the sound is not as clean as I have heard from good PA systems that use
a pair of speakers at say 2m above the ground. The question is whether
the problem is likely to be the speakers or their position.

A website on PA systems suggested that path differences of up to 50ms
(ie about 17m) are not a problem on intelligibility (our path
difference is 15ms at the very worst). Is that right?

I'd welcome suggestions as to whether we would do better to replace the
existing high-level speakers with PA speakers in the same position, or
to buy a pair of stand-mounted PA speakers for use when talks are being
given.

(As a multi-purpose hall, permanent mounting of speakers at lower level
doesn't look like a viable option).



I have seen a pic on the Net of a pair of Jerichos up in the rafters in a
village hall somewhere (above normal ceiling height in the open roofspace) -
a pair of those with the right drivers in 'em would cut through the earwax!!

On 4 Sep 2006 06:13:16 -0700, wrote:

Our village hall (about 20m x 6m but very high roof) has what I thought
an adequate PA setup - a Shure hand-held radio microphone feeding a
decent PA amplifier (Carlsboro) feeding four Wharfedale Linton speakers
which are mounted (two on each wall), about 4m up and 5m apart - where
the eaves meet the walls, angled downwards.

The current setup is fine for playing music for kids to dance to. But
some of our older users have complained that speech sounds sound rather
"muffled". I can't sense a real problem myself, but have to admit that
the sound is not as clean as I have heard from good PA systems that use
a pair of speakers at say 2m above the ground. The question is whether
the problem is likely to be the speakers or their position.

It's a fair possibility that the tweeters blew out on the first dance
session, or the first time the mic produced a blast of feedback. Apart
from the question of positioning, domestic hi-fi speakers are not
rugged enough for PA use.

wrote:

Can anyone offer advice, please.

Our village hall (about 20m x 6m but very high roof) has what I thought
an adequate PA setup - a Shure hand-held radio microphone feeding a
decent PA amplifier (Carlsboro) feeding four Wharfedale Linton speakers
which are mounted (two on each wall), about 4m up and 5m apart - where
the eaves meet the walls, angled downwards.

A fundamental problem here is that you're using 'hi-fi' loudspeakers for a PA.

I guess there's no budget to change this ?

Graham

In article ,
Laurence Payne lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote:
It's a fair possibility that the tweeters blew out on the first dance
session, or the first time the mic produced a blast of feedback. Apart
from the question of positioning, domestic hi-fi speakers are not
rugged enough for PA use.

Indeed. If desperate to use them for this include a low cost compressor/
limiter in the chain.

--
*Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Laurence Payne lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote:
It's a fair possibility that the tweeters blew out on the first dance
session, or the first time the mic produced a blast of feedback. Apart
from the question of positioning, domestic hi-fi speakers are not
rugged enough for PA use.

Indeed. If desperate to use them for this include a low cost compressor/
limiter in the chain.

That still won't help them in the case of a bad dose of feedback.

You need speakers that area bit more rugged ( and efficient ) for P:A.

Graham

In article ,
Eeyore wrote:
Indeed. If desperate to use them for this include a low cost
compressor/ limiter in the chain.

That still won't help them in the case of a bad dose of feedback.

It'll certainly help if the limiter is correctly set, but nothing can
really protect speakers from gross abuse. However, they seem to have
survived a few discos...

--
*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article .com,
wrote:
The current setup is fine for playing music for kids to dance to. But
some of our older users have complained that speech sounds sound rather
"muffled". I can't sense a real problem myself, but have to admit that
the sound is not as clean as I have heard from good PA systems that use
a pair of speakers at say 2m above the ground. The question is whether
the problem is likely to be the speakers or their position.

Well, is the speech from the mic muffled? If so you need to 'eq' it - cut
the bass and boost the mid range.

--
*I didn't drive my husband crazy -- I flew him there -- it was faster

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Eeyore wrote:
Indeed. If desperate to use them for this include a low cost
compressor/ limiter in the chain.

That still won't help them in the case of a bad dose of feedback.

It'll certainly help if the limiter is correctly set, but nothing can
really protect speakers from gross abuse. However, they seem to have
survived a few discos...

A decently designed PA speaker will accomadate much more energy in the HF band
than any hi-fi one though.

Graham