Andy Evans wrote:

Listening will only tell you what *you* think of it, i.e. subjective
evaluation.

Exactly. That's how most people evaluate products.

Which is fine as far as it goes. Do you expect everyone's listening preference to be
identical though ? There lies the limitation !


That is no reliable measure of 'goodness' whatever as easily can be seen from
those who think SET tube amps are great despite shocking failings wrt precision
and linearity. Graham

Many SET amps sound very good.

So some say. They also produce oodles of intermodulation products which are most
unmusical. This will easily be revealed by playing 'complex' music, yet they will
tend to sound excellent on a single instrument, or say a quartet.


please learn to quote properly btw

please learn to be more flexible and stop demanding that other people
obey your own views.

Please pull your head out of your arse !

Graham

Please pull your head out of your arse !

It's up to you if you want to lower the quality of debate and make
senseless comments - I'm quite happy to debate this on a rational level.

Andy Evans wrote:

Please pull your head out of your arse !

It's up to you if you want to lower the quality of debate and make
senseless comments - I'm quite happy to debate this on a rational level.

Does Mozilla normally put the quoting arrows on the rhs instead of the left ?

Or are you simply choosing to be perverse ? You would have considerably greater
credibility if you adhered to Usenet norms.

Graham

Does Mozilla normally put the quoting arrows on the rhs instead of the
left ?

Mozilla means as much to me as King Kong.

Or are you simply choosing to be perverse ? You would have considerably
greater
credibility if you adhered to Usenet norms.

As an ex musician I'm so used to being an outsider that credibility -
in terms of fitting in with the norm and conventional behaviour - is a
bit of a Fata Morgana. If I'd wanted credibility I'd have become a bank
manager.

"Eeyore" wrote in
message ...


Andy Evans wrote:

Listening will only tell you what *you* think of it, i.e. subjective
evaluation.

Exactly. That's how most people evaluate products.

Which is fine as far as it goes. Do you expect everyone's listening
preference to be
identical though ? There lies the limitation !


That is no reliable measure of 'goodness' whatever as easily can be
seen from
those who think SET tube amps are great despite shocking failings wrt
precision
and linearity. Graham

Many SET amps sound very good.

So some say. They also produce oodles of intermodulation products which
are most
unmusical. This will easily be revealed by playing 'complex' music, yet
they will
tend to sound excellent on a single instrument, or say a quartet.


please learn to quote properly btw

please learn to be more flexible and stop demanding that other people
obey your own views.

Please pull your head out of your arse !



Interesting to see that, sooner or later, all of you clowns who just don't
*get it* with valves have to result to guttersnipe phraseology....

Keith G wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote in
message ...


Andy Evans wrote:

Listening will only tell you what *you* think of it, i.e. subjective
evaluation.

Exactly. That's how most people evaluate products.

Which is fine as far as it goes. Do you expect everyone's listening
preference to be
identical though ? There lies the limitation !


That is no reliable measure of 'goodness' whatever as easily can be
seen from
those who think SET tube amps are great despite shocking failings wrt
precision
and linearity. Graham

Many SET amps sound very good.

So some say. They also produce oodles of intermodulation products which
are most
unmusical. This will easily be revealed by playing 'complex' music, yet
they will
tend to sound excellent on a single instrument, or say a quartet.


please learn to quote properly btw

please learn to be more flexible and stop demanding that other people
obey your own views.

Please pull your head out of your arse !

Interesting to see that, sooner or later, all of you clowns who just don't
*get it* with valves have to result to guttersnipe phraseology....

It had nothing do do with 'toobiness' at all actually.

Graham

"Eeyore" wrote in
message ...


Andy Evans wrote:


Eeyore wrote
!
Precisision and linearity can be measured scientifically and
objectively. The remainder are in the ear and brain of the listener.

So? The purpose of the DAC is to listen to it.

Listening will only tell you what *you* think of it, i.e. subjective
evaluation.
That is no reliable measure of 'goodness' whatever as easily can be seen
from
those who think SET tube amps are great despite shocking failings wrt
precision
and linearity.


'Shocking failings'....???

(I love it when you Denial Boys start to talk dirty.....!! :-)

Keith G wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote in
message ...


Andy Evans wrote:


Eeyore wrote
!
Precisision and linearity can be measured scientifically and
objectively. The remainder are in the ear and brain of the listener.

So? The purpose of the DAC is to listen to it.

Listening will only tell you what *you* think of it, i.e. subjective
evaluation.
That is no reliable measure of 'goodness' whatever as easily can be seen
from
those who think SET tube amps are great despite shocking failings wrt
precision and linearity.

'Shocking failings'....???

By any established technical standard for sure.


(I love it when you Denial Boys start to talk dirty.....!! :-)

You haven't heard the half of it.

Graham

"Eeyore" wrote


Listening will only tell you what *you* think of it, i.e. subjective
evaluation.
That is no reliable measure of 'goodness' whatever as easily can be
seen
from
those who think SET tube amps are great despite shocking failings wrt
precision and linearity.

'Shocking failings'....???

By any established technical standard for sure.


(I love it when you Denial Boys start to talk dirty.....!! :-)

You haven't heard the half of it.


OK...

First question - have you ever heard a SET and if so, on what speakers?
Second question - how is an amp failing when it a) switches on and off OK,
b) amplifies perfectly well all day long, b) sounds better than the other
amps one may have to hand?

Next - what price 'precision and linearity' to someone who is interested in
*using* the kit and not designing it? When it comes to audio, provided no
harm comes to kids, the elderly and little fluffy animals, I believe 'the
end justifies the means' and I am not too strung out about some of the
'facts and figures' when it comes to *measurements* and the like.

A task for you - play this fairly explosive track:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...0In%20Love.mp3

....and listen to it first on a pair of headphones and then over your 'hifi
system'.

Report here what 'shocking failings' in your system you found. Comment on
the 'fidelity' aspect and tell us how *accurate* you think it sounds. Then
make the effort to hear it on a SET amp and tell us how it compares and what
you have *learned* - this is what *we* SET users do, who also have a
selection of other amps *both* SS and valves.....

(SETs are pretty thin on the ground in the UK and I have a leetle tiny
suspicion that many people with strong opinions about them have simply never
heard one....??)

SETs are pretty thin on the ground in the UK and I have a leetle tiny
suspicion that many people with strong opinions about them have simply
never
heard one

A leetle tiny suspicion??? Does this come from a Zorro film? I'd love
to see the sign of the Z on all the Audiolab gear about town, and a
caped intruder floating away into the darkness........