"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...

Well, you haven't helped your case any here, Keith. These clips both
bear out the idea that top and bottom octaves are missing. There is
nothing significant below 60Hz, and they resemble the side of a cliff
above about 10kHz. Whether that is to do with the speaker, source
material or mic is tricky to say, but we work with what we have.


Hi Don, I am in my 50's and find I cannot hear a hell of a lot over 10-12k
these days. Therefore I could find the top end of the setup to be as good as
anything in the market place. While these speakers *may* be deficient in
the top end it won't necessarily exclude them from the purchase list based
upon me undertaking listening tests. Should those who cannot make use of the
full sound spectrum from a speaker because of their age still only buy
speakers that supposedly meet the highest standards of frequency response
when they may not get any benefit themselves? When we have products
predominantly for our enjoyment only, should we be concerned what others may
say or should we believe what we hear?

Keith's perceptions of his equipment are 100 valid for himself and maybe so
for many others who would like equipment that produces an enjoyable sound
but have the same age related hearing deterioration as I have myself.
Keith's perceptions of his own equipment may be the same perceptions that I
would arrive at if I were to hear it.

After all, for us who replay music the end requirement is enjoyment of it.
For all those who make/play, mix and master, etc (all those professionals in
the chain) , the goal should encompass the technical issues that result in a
quality product, one of them being frequency response, with the actual goal
being to make the music as enjoyable as possible to the widest range of
people so that they want to hear it and re-hear it.

In article ,
APR wrote:
Should those who cannot make use of the full sound spectrum from a
speaker because of their age still only buy speakers that supposedly
meet the highest standards of frequency response when they may not get
any benefit themselves?

There's a great deal more to a speaker driver than simple frequency
response. 'Full range' drivers are likely to have a poor directivity
pattern, transient response and distortion due to cone break up, etc. The
only valid reason for them is the efficiency is likely higher - which is
totally irrelevant since watts are cheap these days.

In other words, slight HF loss which is normal with age doesn't mean
you'll not get any benefit from a full range speaker system.

--
*When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
APR wrote:
Should those who cannot make use of the full sound spectrum from a
speaker because of their age still only buy speakers that supposedly
meet the highest standards of frequency response when they may not get
any benefit themselves?

There's a great deal more to a speaker driver than simple frequency
response. 'Full range' drivers are likely to have a poor directivity
pattern, transient response and distortion due to cone break up, etc. The
only valid reason for them is the efficiency is likely higher - which is
totally irrelevant since watts are cheap these days.


Can't agree with much of that - none of my FR units are rated at less than
20K at the top end...

Can't agree with much of that - none of my FR units are rated at less than 20K at the top end...

That's as maybe, but at HF, the sound will beam like ****.

The polar response plot will have a very narrow lobe at
zero degrees from the axis. To get decent treble, you're gonna
need to aim the axis at your ears with a red laser dot! Off axis, you're
not gonna get a decent response at many frequencies. At some positions,
at some frequencies, you'll get some kinda decent response, but at other
frequencies at the same position, you'll get a terrible response.

Tweeters are small partly to reduce this problem. Partly.

Still, if the sound suits you.... I'm a treble fiend myself, though.


Martin
--
M.A.Poyser Tel.: 07967 110890
Manchester, U.K. http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=fleetie

"Fleetie" wrote in message
...
Can't agree with much of that - none of my FR units are rated at less
than 20K at the top end...

That's as maybe, but at HF, the sound will beam like ****.

The polar response plot will have a very narrow lobe at
zero degrees from the axis. To get decent treble, you're gonna
need to aim the axis at your ears with a red laser dot! Off axis, you're
not gonna get a decent response at many frequencies. At some positions,
at some frequencies, you'll get some kinda decent response, but at other
frequencies at the same position, you'll get a terrible response.

Tweeters are small partly to reduce this problem. Partly.

Still, if the sound suits you.... I'm a treble fiend myself, though.



Seems it suits more than just me, Martin - Lowther have been making the PM6
speakers for over 50 years now....

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Still, if the sound suits you.... I'm a treble fiend myself, though.

Seems it suits more than just me, Martin - Lowther have been making the
PM6 speakers for over 50 years now....

Plenty of examples of devices still being marketed when well past their
sell by date, Keith.

--
*If your feet smell and your nose runs, you're built upside down.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Still, if the sound suits you.... I'm a treble fiend myself, though.

Seems it suits more than just me, Martin - Lowther have been making the
PM6 speakers for over 50 years now....

Plenty of examples of devices still being marketed when well past their
sell by date, Keith.

You beat me to it !

Graham

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Still, if the sound suits you.... I'm a treble fiend myself, though.

Seems it suits more than just me, Martin - Lowther have been making the
PM6 speakers for over 50 years now....

Plenty of examples of devices still being marketed when well past their
sell by date, Keith.


Such as?

"APR" wrote


Hi Don, I am in my 50's and find I cannot hear a hell of a lot over
10-12k these days. Therefore I could find the top end of the setup to be
as good as anything in the market place. While these speakers *may* be
deficient in the top end it won't necessarily exclude them from the
purchase list based upon me undertaking listening tests. Should those who
cannot make use of the full sound spectrum from a speaker because of their
age still only buy speakers that supposedly meet the highest standards of
frequency response when they may not get any benefit themselves? When we
have products predominantly for our enjoyment only, should we be concerned
what others may say or should we believe what we hear?


The thing that matters here is not the 'measurements' but the perceptions -
I don't notice any lack of treble, the drivers in my speakers are all rated
to 20K at the top end (minimum - one of the drivers is rated at 30K) and the
bass will vary with the cabinets. There is no big 'pistonic' effect (air
shifting) with FR units but low notes are perfectly fine and (despite the
clips) there is no 'one note' bass.

Where they score bigtime (and here I remind everyone I still have Tannoys
and Ruarks here and have tried a vast number of speakers in the past) is the
*clarity* and cohesion - I have quite literally heard detail I had never
heard before on countless occasions now.

The other bonus is the efficiency of some/most (but not all) of these
speakers - they leap into life leap into life like no other and are lighting
fast with incredible attack. All other speakers sound blurry and sluggish
once you have got used to them.



Keith's perceptions of his equipment are 100 valid for himself and maybe
so for many others who would like equipment that produces an enjoyable
sound but have the same age related hearing deterioration as I have
myself. Keith's perceptions of his own equipment may be the same
perceptions that I would arrive at if I were to hear it.


My door is still open to anyone who wants to hear them - there's no
obligation whatsoever to like them!!


After all, for us who replay music the end requirement is enjoyment of it.
For all those who make/play, mix and master, etc (all those professionals
in the chain) , the goal should encompass the technical issues that result
in a quality product, one of them being frequency response, with the
actual goal being to make the music as enjoyable as possible to the widest
range of people so that they want to hear it and re-hear it.

Very nicely put!

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
The thing that matters here is not the 'measurements' but the
perceptions - I don't notice any lack of treble, the drivers in my
speakers are all rated to 20K at the top end (minimum - one of the
drivers is rated at 30K)

As you've found out with your mic what a maker claims and the reality are
not always the same thing.

--
*Where do forest rangers go to "get away from it all?"

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.