The shite wot is writ here...
 

"Don Pearce" wrote

Your guess would be as good as mine! :-)


Eyeballing the pic of the Jericho, I reckon that's about seven feet of
line. That would put the tuning point at around 86Hz. You can expect
the output to drop pretty rapidly below that. The Fidelios will be
correspondingly higher.

The sums go like this: speed of sound (345m/sec) divided by the line
length in metres (2) divided by 2 again for half wave, which is what
you need for the back wave to reinforce the front radiation.


OK.



In a traditional transmission line speaker the line is filled with
absorber


Whaaat??

Hexcuse me - I'll have none of that *stuffing* malarky, thank you....!!

The first horns I heard were a pair I borrowed from my mate P the T (he ha
dollied them up) and my mate SN was round. They were queer upward-firing
things with Richard Allen drivers in them and had been loving stuffed with
fibre. They didn't sound particularly good, so we upended them and SN
started ripping the fibre (armfuls of it) out of 'em saying 'they don't need
all this crap' - and booger oi if they didn't sound a lot better without
it!!


which does two things - it tames the resonance peak (which is
probably what sounds like good bass in these) and slows the sound
wave, making the line effectively longer.

Which presumably means the sound goes lower, but why mess with it if they
sound good *with* a resonance peak, or am I missing summat?

Last octave or no, there's certainly no shortage of bass on these speakers -
even as I type!!



There is a really useful paper on transmission lines speakers here
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/projec.../response.html
yours is sufficiently close to a transmission line that this stuff
will apply just fine. The effect of filling on the speed of sound is
the part of main interest.



Scanned it, got a headache, bookmarked it for when I feel a bit more
brave.... :-)

The shite wot is writ here...
 

On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 23:39:40 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote

Your guess would be as good as mine! :-)


Eyeballing the pic of the Jericho, I reckon that's about seven feet of
line. That would put the tuning point at around 86Hz. You can expect
the output to drop pretty rapidly below that. The Fidelios will be
correspondingly higher.

The sums go like this: speed of sound (345m/sec) divided by the line
length in metres (2) divided by 2 again for half wave, which is what
you need for the back wave to reinforce the front radiation.


OK.



In a traditional transmission line speaker the line is filled with
absorber


Whaaat??

Hexcuse me - I'll have none of that *stuffing* malarky, thank you....!!

The first horns I heard were a pair I borrowed from my mate P the T (he ha
dollied them up) and my mate SN was round. They were queer upward-firing
things with Richard Allen drivers in them and had been loving stuffed with
fibre. They didn't sound particularly good, so we upended them and SN
started ripping the fibre (armfuls of it) out of 'em saying 'they don't need
all this crap' - and booger oi if they didn't sound a lot better without
it!!


which does two things - it tames the resonance peak (which is
probably what sounds like good bass in these) and slows the sound
wave, making the line effectively longer.

Which presumably means the sound goes lower, but why mess with it if they
sound good *with* a resonance peak, or am I missing summat?

Last octave or no, there's certainly no shortage of bass on these speakers -
even as I type!!


What you're hearing isn't the real deal. It is pseudo-bass - just the
harmonics of the true bass which your brain, by a bit of psychological
hocus pocus translates into an impression of actual bass. The big
resonant peak no doubt helps that along a bit. I'm not surprised your
mate's speakers sounded "better" with the stuffing out, although they
were in fact simply boomier. Get some stuffing in there to tame the
honk then add that decent sub and you will find out what bass is
really all about.



There is a really useful paper on transmission lines speakers here
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/projec.../response.html
yours is sufficiently close to a transmission line that this stuff
will apply just fine. The effect of filling on the speed of sound is
the part of main interest.



Scanned it, got a headache, bookmarked it for when I feel a bit more
brave.... :-)


Skip the details for now - just move on down to the relative speed of
sound graphs.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

The shite wot is writ here...
 

"Don Pearce" wrote

What you're hearing isn't the real deal. It is pseudo-bass - just the
harmonics of the true bass which your brain, by a bit of psychological
hocus pocus translates into an impression of actual bass. The big
resonant peak no doubt helps that along a bit. I'm not surprised your
mate's speakers sounded "better" with the stuffing out, although they
were in fact simply boomier. Get some stuffing in there to tame the
honk then add that decent sub and you will find out what bass is
really all about.


???

I give up..

I've got a *best yet* sound, others have all expressed delight/amazement and
no-one has said they didn't like it! (Yet....)

It's all 'hocus pocus' - including/particularly the perception of central
(and other) *images* and their placement. In this highly overcrowded
(temporary) setup:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Lowther06.JPG

You will be flabberghasted to know that it's quite impossible to tell which
pair of speakers is on most of the time - I've been caught out no end of
times!!

My current quest (ending now) has been to get a sound that didn't boom in
the tiny 'listening room' that I have now, since the piano put on a lot of
weight and displaced half my kit! (Load of ********, actually - it's mostly
Swim watching endless crap on the telly that drove me out, truth be known!
;-) The clarity/detail, timbre and imaging are just reaffirming bonussis!

I had bass from my Ruarks that used to make the pictures go squint and got
so deafening it used to go *quiet*, if you see what I mean - I don't need it
or want it, I want to hear timbre and detail!! (Or *all* the words/notes, to
put it another way!)

Going back to ordinary speakers is like *time smear* now - or speaking with
your hand over your mouth!!

No worries, I'll retire further into my self-delusion and make the best of a
bad job!! ;-)

The shite wot is writ here...
 

"Keith G" wrote
I give up..


snip own blather


Going back to ordinary speakers is like *time smear* now - or speaking
with your hand over your mouth!!

No worries, I'll retire further into my self-delusion and make the best of
a bad job!! ;-)


Feck, I've just asked Swim (yes, I *know*....):

Is this the best sound we've had? - Yes!

Definitely? - Yes!

Better than everything up 'til now? - Yes!

Why? - It's the *real sound* it sounds like there are no speakers (&c.)
there! (Hand gestures also...)

What more can I fekkin' say or do...???

The shite wot is writ here...
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Why? - It's the *real sound* it sounds like there are no speakers (&c.)
there! (Hand gestures also...)

One of the best speaker tests is well recorded male speech - not music.
And I'll guarantee *any* horn will fail this - and miserably. Best by far
is a Quad ELS...

--
*Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The shite wot is writ here...
 

On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 00:26:38 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote

What you're hearing isn't the real deal. It is pseudo-bass - just the
harmonics of the true bass which your brain, by a bit of psychological
hocus pocus translates into an impression of actual bass. The big
resonant peak no doubt helps that along a bit. I'm not surprised your
mate's speakers sounded "better" with the stuffing out, although they
were in fact simply boomier. Get some stuffing in there to tame the
honk then add that decent sub and you will find out what bass is
really all about.


???

I give up..

I've got a *best yet* sound, others have all expressed delight/amazement and
no-one has said they didn't like it! (Yet....)

It's all 'hocus pocus' - including/particularly the perception of central
(and other) *images* and their placement. In this highly overcrowded
(temporary) setup:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Lowther06.JPG

You will be flabberghasted to know that it's quite impossible to tell which
pair of speakers is on most of the time - I've been caught out no end of
times!!

My current quest (ending now) has been to get a sound that didn't boom in
the tiny 'listening room' that I have now, since the piano put on a lot of
weight and displaced half my kit! (Load of ********, actually - it's mostly
Swim watching endless crap on the telly that drove me out, truth be known!
;-) The clarity/detail, timbre and imaging are just reaffirming bonussis!

I had bass from my Ruarks that used to make the pictures go squint and got
so deafening it used to go *quiet*, if you see what I mean - I don't need it
or want it, I want to hear timbre and detail!! (Or *all* the words/notes, to
put it another way!)

Going back to ordinary speakers is like *time smear* now - or speaking with
your hand over your mouth!!

No worries, I'll retire further into my self-delusion and make the best of a
bad job!! ;-)




Strange innit? But that is, I'm afraid, the way it is. Or rather that
is what you like - no arguing with it. But it has not a lot to do with
fidelity (if you will excuse the "f" word).

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

The shite wot is writ here...
 

On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 00:37:49 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Keith G" wrote
I give up..


snip own blather


Going back to ordinary speakers is like *time smear* now - or speaking
with your hand over your mouth!!

No worries, I'll retire further into my self-delusion and make the best of
a bad job!! ;-)


Feck, I've just asked Swim (yes, I *know*....):

Is this the best sound we've had? - Yes!

Definitely? - Yes!

Better than everything up 'til now? - Yes!

Why? - It's the *real sound* it sounds like there are no speakers (&c.)
there! (Hand gestures also...)

What more can I fekkin' say or do...???


Not a lot, I'm afraid. I can't lead you to the paths of righteousness
if you don't like the colour of the grass along there.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

The shite wot is writ here...
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Why? - It's the *real sound* it sounds like there are no speakers (&c.)
there! (Hand gestures also...)

One of the best speaker tests is well recorded male speech - not music.
And I'll guarantee *any* horn will fail this - and miserably. Best by far
is a Quad ELS...


Yep, the worst bit by far - I blanked out 'with announcer's voices' in a
post the other day.

Carsick FM (DAB) is the worst - very good music (and I mean very good for
digital radio) and then an announcement which sounds nasal and honky by
comparison and, I think, transmits the size of the space the announcer's
sitting in all too well. Differs with whoever it is and I believe R3 doesn't
sound so bad. Totally different with TV dialogue - I never notice anything
out of the ordinary at all.

Nothing's perfect and the good outweighs the bad by miles, in my book!!

Or, put it another way, I wouldn't want the music ****ted up (down) to
'normal standards' for the sake of the odd announcement!!

YMMV.....

The shite wot is writ here...
 

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 00:37:49 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


What more can I fekkin' say or do...???


Not a lot, I'm afraid. I can't lead you to the paths of righteousness
if you don't like the colour of the grass along there.


Well, perhaps I would just add that the sound has to suit *me* ('ere so
quietly) before I solicit the opinion of anyone else, but I'm not arrogant
enough to presume what I like is necessarily any good...!! ??

Righteousness? Now, there's summat to ponder!!

;-)

The shite wot is writ here...
 

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 00:26:38 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:



No worries, I'll retire further into my self-delusion and make the best of
a
bad job!! ;-)




Strange innit? But that is, I'm afraid, the way it is. Or rather that
is what you like - no arguing with it. But it has not a lot to do with
fidelity (if you will excuse the "f" word).


Trust me, I've heard a number of 'fidelity systems' belonging to proud
owners that I wouldn't give houseroom!!

Said it 28 million times - I wouldn't know 'fidelity' if it hit me with a
stick - I know what sounds *alive* and realistic/natural and that's what I
have pursued. It is impossible to try and describe sound quality without
sounding like a ****/magazine reviewer (interchangeable) but I'm talking
about sounds that *hang in the air*, voices where you could clasp the
singer's head, depth and space where the walls have entirely
disappeared....???

Now say anybody could claim that and I will ask how come I ain't never heard
it on anyone else's kit?

(FWIW, I suspect stuff I had a year or two back would have more than
qualified as true 'hifi' gear!!)

Whatever...

The shite wot is writ here...
 

On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 02:33:22 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 00:26:38 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:



No worries, I'll retire further into my self-delusion and make the best of
a
bad job!! ;-)




Strange innit? But that is, I'm afraid, the way it is. Or rather that
is what you like - no arguing with it. But it has not a lot to do with
fidelity (if you will excuse the "f" word).


Trust me, I've heard a number of 'fidelity systems' belonging to proud
owners that I wouldn't give houseroom!!

Said it 28 million times - I wouldn't know 'fidelity' if it hit me with a
stick - I know what sounds *alive* and realistic/natural and that's what I
have pursued. It is impossible to try and describe sound quality without
sounding like a ****/magazine reviewer (interchangeable) but I'm talking
about sounds that *hang in the air*, voices where you could clasp the
singer's head, depth and space where the walls have entirely
disappeared....???

Now say anybody could claim that and I will ask how come I ain't never heard
it on anyone else's kit?

(FWIW, I suspect stuff I had a year or two back would have more than
qualified as true 'hifi' gear!!)

Whatever...


How come the French don't have a saying for "chacun a son gout"?
They're usually quite good at aphorisms.

What is clear is that you don't need those lower octaves for your
listening, which means that your speakers are entirely right for you.
They will be compensated to a degree by your small listening room, but
that won't restore anything like full bass performance. Interesting
little bugger, the brain, isn't it?

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

The shite wot is writ here...
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Nothing's perfect and the good outweighs the bad by miles, in my book!!

Or, put it another way, I wouldn't want the music ****ted up (down) to
'normal standards' for the sake of the odd announcement!!

Fair enough. Plenty of people like honky bass with no real bottom end. The
jukebox or radiogram sound.

--
*Reality? Is that where the pizza delivery guy comes from?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The shite wot is writ here...
 

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
writes
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Why? - It's the *real sound* it sounds like there are no speakers (&c.)
there! (Hand gestures also...)

One of the best speaker tests is well recorded male speech - not music.
And I'll guarantee *any* horn will fail this - and miserably. Best by far
is a Quad ELS...


:-))
--
Tony Sayer

The shite wot is writ here...
 

On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 01:30:44 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Why? - It's the *real sound* it sounds like there are no speakers (&c.)
there! (Hand gestures also...)

One of the best speaker tests is well recorded male speech - not music.
And I'll guarantee *any* horn will fail this - and miserably. Best by far
is a Quad ELS...

In this case I would say that well-recorded means anechoic. The test
then resolves itself into the simple one "could you believe what you
are hearing is an actual person in the room with you?". As you say,
there are very few speakers so free from lumps that they will pass
this one.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

The shite wot is writ here...
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Nothing's perfect and the good outweighs the bad by miles, in my book!!

Or, put it another way, I wouldn't want the music ****ted up (down) to
'normal standards' for the sake of the odd announcement!!

Fair enough. Plenty of people like honky bass with no real bottom end. The
jukebox or radiogram sound.


Jukeboxes and stereograms??

Gawd, don't tell me I'm on a nostalgia jag without even realising it....???

The shite wot is writ here...
 

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 01:30:44 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Why? - It's the *real sound* it sounds like there are no speakers (&c.)
there! (Hand gestures also...)

One of the best speaker tests is well recorded male speech - not music.
And I'll guarantee *any* horn will fail this - and miserably. Best by far
is a Quad ELS...

In this case I would say that well-recorded means anechoic. The test
then resolves itself into the simple one "could you believe what you
are hearing is an actual person in the room with you?". As you say,
there are very few speakers so free from lumps that they will pass
this one.


That's been said so many times here since the 'advent of horns'...!!

The beauty is the sound follows and gets even better throughout the house. I
can still determine 'soundstage effects' from the other end of the house, at
my smoking postion (patio doorstep)...!!

The shite wot is writ here...
 

"Don Pearce" wrote


What is clear is that you don't need those lower octaves for your
listening,


There ya go....


which means that your speakers are entirely right for you.


I wouldn't go so far as to say that - righter it seems than Ruark, Tannoy,
Rogers, B&W, Wharfedale, KEF, JM-Labs, Dynaudio, Jamo (Concert) and gawd
knows how many others proved to be at least....??

The shite wot is writ here...
 

On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:42:36 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote


What is clear is that you don't need those lower octaves for your
listening,


There ya go....


I did mean you personally, of course - that wasn't a generic you,
meaning one.


which means that your speakers are entirely right for you.


I wouldn't go so far as to say that - righter it seems than Ruark, Tannoy,
Rogers, B&W, Wharfedale, KEF, JM-Labs, Dynaudio, Jamo (Concert) and gawd
knows how many others proved to be at least....??



Quite so. Never be satisfied - you'd have to sell your circular saw,
and that would never do.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

The shite wot is writ here...
 

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:42:36 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote


What is clear is that you don't need those lower octaves for your
listening,


There ya go....


I did mean you personally, of course - that wasn't a generic you,
meaning one.


which means that your speakers are entirely right for you.


I wouldn't go so far as to say that - righter it seems than Ruark, Tannoy,
Rogers, B&W, Wharfedale, KEF, JM-Labs, Dynaudio, Jamo (Concert) and gawd
knows how many others proved to be at least....??



Quite so. Never be satisfied - you'd have to sell your circular saw,
and that would never do.



Well yew might larf! Swim got me a couple of 'woodworking' mags the other
day - they are even nerdier than audio geeks it appears. The mags followed
form exactly, even down to a 'jigsaw shoot-out' feature and a 'final few
words' at the back from some God-botherer, no less....!!

(This year's grinding wheel grey is *pink* actually, I thought you'd be
interested to know!! ;-)

The shite wot is writ here...
 

On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 10:11:31 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

Well yew might larf! Swim got me a couple of 'woodworking' mags the other
day - they are even nerdier than audio geeks it appears. The mags followed
form exactly, even down to a 'jigsaw shoot-out' feature and a 'final few
words' at the back from some God-botherer, no less....!!


The God-Botherer bit made me chuckle. When I was working for Marconi
Instruments, we were quite close with Hewlett Packard's instrument
division in the American Mid West somewhere, to the point that we were
sent copies of their house magazine. The mag was full of pictures of
their employees with profiles. Everybody seemed to be the same -
Christian, sings in the church choir and makes his own furniture. I
think they stamped them out with a cookie-cutter.

(This year's grinding wheel grey is *pink* actually, I thought you'd be
interested to know!! ;-)


Do you have to wear pink overalls so you co-ordinate, though?

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

The shite wot is writ here...
 

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 10:11:31 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

Well yew might larf! Swim got me a couple of 'woodworking' mags the other
day - they are even nerdier than audio geeks it appears. The mags followed
form exactly, even down to a 'jigsaw shoot-out' feature and a 'final few
words' at the back from some God-botherer, no less....!!


The God-Botherer bit made me chuckle. When I was working for Marconi
Instruments, we were quite close with Hewlett Packard's instrument
division in the American Mid West somewhere, to the point that we were
sent copies of their house magazine. The mag was full of pictures of
their employees with profiles. Everybody seemed to be the same -
Christian, sings in the church choir and makes his own furniture. I
think they stamped them out with a cookie-cutter.


'Shaker Syle' eh? The mag's are full of that!!

Here's the article, if you are interested:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/reverend.JPG


'Rant From The Reverend'...!! ;-)

(Guess who fits that bill in here....??? ;-)

I won't leave it up for long - you know what these arses are like, it won't
be long before they're after me for copyright infringement!!


(This year's grinding wheel grey is *pink* actually, I thought you'd be
interested to know!! ;-)


Do you have to wear pink overalls so you co-ordinate, though?


Asitappens, I already do.....

The shite wot is writ here...
 

On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 10:37:03 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 10:11:31 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

Well yew might larf! Swim got me a couple of 'woodworking' mags the other
day - they are even nerdier than audio geeks it appears. The mags followed
form exactly, even down to a 'jigsaw shoot-out' feature and a 'final few
words' at the back from some God-botherer, no less....!!


The God-Botherer bit made me chuckle. When I was working for Marconi
Instruments, we were quite close with Hewlett Packard's instrument
division in the American Mid West somewhere, to the point that we were
sent copies of their house magazine. The mag was full of pictures of
their employees with profiles. Everybody seemed to be the same -
Christian, sings in the church choir and makes his own furniture. I
think they stamped them out with a cookie-cutter.


'Shaker Syle' eh? The mag's are full of that!!

Here's the article, if you are interested:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/reverend.JPG


'Rant From The Reverend'...!! ;-)

(Guess who fits that bill in here....??? ;-)


Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!

I won't leave it up for long - you know what these arses are like, it won't
be long before they're after me for copyright infringement!!


Well, I read it but I can't say I'm any the wiser. When you combine it
with that silly conversion table (I wonder if they saw the irony of
including a picture of a ruler that did the same job automatically),
you could say it was an entire page wasted.


(This year's grinding wheel grey is *pink* actually, I thought you'd be
interested to know!! ;-)


Do you have to wear pink overalls so you co-ordinate, though?


Asitappens, I already do.....



I'm sure you look very sweet.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

The shite wot is writ here...
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
The mags followed form exactly, even down to a 'jigsaw shoot-out'
feature and a 'final few words' at the back from some God-botherer, no
less....!!

There is a vast difference between a cheap jigsaw and a decent one -
perhaps more than with any other common power tool. Also there's the
question of spares. The SDS mechanism om my hard used 10 year old Bosch
jigsaw failed recently, and the replacement part was cheap and available
return of post.

(This year's grinding wheel grey is *pink* actually, I thought you'd be
interested to know!! ;-)

Pink or light colours tend to be fine abrasive types.

--
*It's o.k. to laugh during sexŒ.Œ.just don't point!

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The shite wot is writ here...
 

In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
The God-Botherer bit made me chuckle. When I was working for Marconi
Instruments, we were quite close with Hewlett Packard's instrument
division in the American Mid West somewhere, to the point that we were
sent copies of their house magazine. The mag was full of pictures of
their employees with profiles. Everybody seemed to be the same -
Christian, sings in the church choir and makes his own furniture. I
think they stamped them out with a cookie-cutter.

Getting closer to home, the same with Neve, the once maker of perhaps the
finest sound mixing desks. Company failed, of course.

--
*I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The shite wot is writ here...
 

On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 10:57:27 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
The God-Botherer bit made me chuckle. When I was working for Marconi
Instruments, we were quite close with Hewlett Packard's instrument
division in the American Mid West somewhere, to the point that we were
sent copies of their house magazine. The mag was full of pictures of
their employees with profiles. Everybody seemed to be the same -
Christian, sings in the church choir and makes his own furniture. I
think they stamped them out with a cookie-cutter.

Getting closer to home, the same with Neve, the once maker of perhaps the
finest sound mixing desks. Company failed, of course.

They must have forgotten to pray one day.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

The shite wot is writ here...
 

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 10:37:03 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 10:11:31 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

Well yew might larf! Swim got me a couple of 'woodworking' mags the
other
day - they are even nerdier than audio geeks it appears. The mags
followed
form exactly, even down to a 'jigsaw shoot-out' feature and a 'final few
words' at the back from some God-botherer, no less....!!


The God-Botherer bit made me chuckle. When I was working for Marconi
Instruments, we were quite close with Hewlett Packard's instrument
division in the American Mid West somewhere, to the point that we were
sent copies of their house magazine. The mag was full of pictures of
their employees with profiles. Everybody seemed to be the same -
Christian, sings in the church choir and makes his own furniture. I
think they stamped them out with a cookie-cutter.


'Shaker Syle' eh? The mag's are full of that!!

Here's the article, if you are interested:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/reverend.JPG


'Rant From The Reverend'...!! ;-)

(Guess who fits that bill in here....??? ;-)


Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!

I won't leave it up for long - you know what these arses are like, it
won't
be long before they're after me for copyright infringement!!


Well, I read it but I can't say I'm any the wiser.


I read the first para - par for the course, for me...


When you combine it
with that silly conversion table (I wonder if they saw the irony of
including a picture of a ruler that did the same job automatically),
you could say it was an entire page wasted.


Yes, I believe so...



(This year's grinding wheel grey is *pink* actually, I thought you'd be
interested to know!! ;-)


Do you have to wear pink overalls so you co-ordinate, though?


Asitappens, I already do.....



I'm sure you look very sweet.


Do a bit....

The shite wot is writ here...
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
The mags followed form exactly, even down to a 'jigsaw shoot-out'
feature and a 'final few words' at the back from some God-botherer, no
less....!!

There is a vast difference between a cheap jigsaw and a decent one -
perhaps more than with any other common power tool. Also there's the
question of spares. The SDS mechanism om my hard used 10 year old Bosch
jigsaw failed recently, and the replacement part was cheap and available
return of post.


Any idea where's the best place to get a replacement chuck for my Bosch
drill...??

(Unless the WD40 soak has had any effect, which I doubt...)

The shite wot is writ here...
 

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
writes
In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
The God-Botherer bit made me chuckle. When I was working for Marconi
Instruments, we were quite close with Hewlett Packard's instrument
division in the American Mid West somewhere, to the point that we were
sent copies of their house magazine. The mag was full of pictures of
their employees with profiles. Everybody seemed to be the same -
Christian, sings in the church choir and makes his own furniture. I
think they stamped them out with a cookie-cutter.

Getting closer to home, the same with Neve, the once maker of perhaps the
finest sound mixing desks. Company failed, of course.


Ah yes!, worked there in the 70's but not for long. It was quite obvious
that you'd get on with them if, and only if, you went to prayer meetings
after work etc which I wasn't:(

Having being bought up a katlick and despised organised religion ever
since in all its flavours!..


Funny thing is it was only the other day I realised the Martin Jones who
lives opposite me is "the" Dr Martin Jones who was the technical
director at Neve for some years:)!......
--
Tony Sayer

The shite wot is writ here...
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
There is a vast difference between a cheap jigsaw and a decent one -
perhaps more than with any other common power tool. Also there's the
question of spares. The SDS mechanism om my hard used 10 year old Bosch
jigsaw failed recently, and the replacement part was cheap and available
return of post.


Any idea where's the best place to get a replacement chuck for my Bosch
drill...??

If you want a genuine part here's the place I use:-

http://www.powertoolspares.com/parts...manufacturer=2

However, I found a no brand keyless 1/2" chuck (new) from a market stall
fitted my 'junk' B&D drill. So the thread may be a standard.

(Unless the WD40 soak has had any effect, which I doubt...)

Another snake oil product. ;-)

--
*The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The shite wot is writ here...
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
The God-Botherer bit made me chuckle. When I was working for Marconi
Instruments, we were quite close with Hewlett Packard's instrument
division in the American Mid West somewhere, to the point that we were
sent copies of their house magazine. The mag was full of pictures of
their employees with profiles. Everybody seemed to be the same -
Christian, sings in the church choir and makes his own furniture. I
think they stamped them out with a cookie-cutter.

Getting closer to home, the same with Neve, the once maker of perhaps the
finest sound mixing desks. Company failed, of course.

Well merged with AMS actually:-)

I wonder if an employee's religion could have such a vital role in the
job selection process these days as it did at Neve during the 1970s?

Iain

The shite wot is writ here...
 

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:42:36 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote


What is clear is that you don't need those lower octaves for your
listening,


There ya go....


I did mean you personally, of course - that wasn't a generic you,
meaning one.


which means that your speakers are entirely right for you.


I wouldn't go so far as to say that - righter it seems than Ruark, Tannoy,
Rogers, B&W, Wharfedale, KEF, JM-Labs, Dynaudio, Jamo (Concert) and gawd
knows how many others proved to be at least....??



Quite so. Never be satisfied - you'd have to sell your circular saw,
and that would never do.

Agreed. Keith's journey to audio Nirvana is one of the most interesting
topics on this group. He is one of the few "hands-on fettlers" - fast
become a rare breed.

Iain

The shite wot is writ here...
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Nothing's perfect and the good outweighs the bad by miles, in my book!!

Or, put it another way, I wouldn't want the music ****ted up (down) to
'normal standards' for the sake of the odd announcement!!

Fair enough. Plenty of people like honky bass with no real bottom end.
The
jukebox or radiogram sound.


Jukeboxes and stereograms??

Gawd, don't tell me I'm on a nostalgia jag without even realising
it....???


What we used to call "honky" or "flatulent" bass (both negatively biased
adjectives) is now known by the much more flattering term of
"super" bass:-))

A sign of the times?

Iain

The shite wot is writ here...
 

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
Getting closer to home, the same with Neve, the once maker of perhaps
the finest sound mixing desks. Company failed, of course.

Well merged with AMS actually:-)

Depends on who you talk to. ;-)

I wonder if an employee's religion could have such a vital role in the
job selection process these days as it did at Neve during the 1970s?

I dunno since I haven't applied for a job since the '70s. But it would be
difficult to prove one way or the other?

--
*Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The shite wot is writ here...
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Nothing's perfect and the good outweighs the bad by miles, in my book!!

Or, put it another way, I wouldn't want the music ****ted up (down) to
'normal standards' for the sake of the odd announcement!!

Fair enough. Plenty of people like honky bass with no real bottom end.
The
jukebox or radiogram sound.


Jukeboxes and stereograms??

Gawd, don't tell me I'm on a nostalgia jag without even realising
it....???


What we used to call "honky" or "flatulent" bass (both negatively biased
adjectives) is now known by the much more flattering term of
"super" bass:-))

A sign of the times?


Legumes more like....

(It's probably a *nitrogen* thing....)

The shite wot is writ here...
 

Keith G wrote:

I've got a *best yet* sound, others have all expressed
delight/amazement and no-one has said they didn't like it! (Yet....)

The stuff about harmonics sounds about right to me. There's no way a pair of
computer speakers will produce 20Hz that you can reasonably hear. At that
sort of frequency, it's hard to hear it at all, but you can certainly feel
it if it's really there.

My recent DSP dabbling showed me that 25Hz is in line with the following
frequencies (32, 40, 50, 63...), but, subjectively, sounds quieter. That's
two Kef B139s (the big ovalish ones with flat fronts instead of concave
cones), powered by the 50W Cyrus Straightline.


--
Wally
www.wally.myby.co.uk
Stress: You wake up screaming and realise you haven't fallen asleep yet.

The shite wot is writ here...
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
There is a vast difference between a cheap jigsaw and a decent one -
perhaps more than with any other common power tool. Also there's the
question of spares. The SDS mechanism om my hard used 10 year old Bosch
jigsaw failed recently, and the replacement part was cheap and
available
return of post.


Any idea where's the best place to get a replacement chuck for my Bosch
drill...??

If you want a genuine part here's the place I use:-

http://www.powertoolspares.com/parts...manufacturer=2



Thanks, but 'chucks' didn't leap out at me...??



However, I found a no brand keyless 1/2" chuck (new) from a market stall
fitted my 'junk' B&D drill. So the thread may be a standard.


I need a chuck with a 10mm (9.5?) female thread - no luck in any shops I
have been in, so far. Plenty with a 'male' thread...!!



(Unless the WD40 soak has had any effect, which I doubt...)

Another snake oil product. ;-)


I think it's brilliant!

The shite wot is writ here...
 

"Iain Churches" wrote


Quite so. Never be satisfied - you'd have to sell your circular saw,
and that would never do.

Agreed. Keith's journey to audio Nirvana is one of the most interesting
topics on this group. He is one of the few "hands-on fettlers" - fast
become a rare breed.


Absolutely not - you don't have to travel far from this group to find hoards
of people hacking and chopping bits of wood or setting fire to the carpet
with their soldering irons! My piddly little doings are chicken**** compared
with them!!

Check this out for a start:

http://www.diyaudio.com/index.php?s=...c81e0181db5c6e

And then there are countless little, specialised forums!

The shite wot is writ here...
 

"Wally" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

I've got a *best yet* sound, others have all expressed
delight/amazement and no-one has said they didn't like it! (Yet....)

The stuff about harmonics sounds about right to me. There's no way a pair
of
computer speakers will produce 20Hz that you can reasonably hear. At that
sort of frequency, it's hard to hear it at all, but you can certainly feel
it if it's really there.

My recent DSP dabbling showed me that 25Hz is in line with the following
frequencies (32, 40, 50, 63...), but, subjectively, sounds quieter. That's
two Kef B139s (the big ovalish ones with flat fronts instead of concave
cones), powered by the 50W Cyrus Straightline.


Interesting stuff, Wally.....

The shite wot is writ here...
 

Wally wrote:

Keith G wrote:


I've got a *best yet* sound, others have all expressed
delight/amazement and no-one has said they didn't like it! (Yet....)


The stuff about harmonics sounds about right to me. There's no way a pair of
computer speakers will produce 20Hz that you can reasonably hear. At that
sort of frequency, it's hard to hear it at all, but you can certainly feel
it if it's really there.

My recent DSP dabbling showed me that 25Hz is in line with the following
frequencies (32, 40, 50, 63...), but, subjectively, sounds quieter. That's
two Kef B139s (the big ovalish ones with flat fronts instead of concave
cones), powered by the 50W Cyrus Straightline.

What enclosures and room do you have?
B139s need an enormous box to get decent bass.

--
Eiron

No good deed ever goes unpunished.

Drill Chucks - Try this place for a start - in the UK
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...


Any idea where's the best place to get a replacement chuck for my Bosch
drill...??


I need a chuck with a 10mm (9.5?) female thread - no luck in any shops I
have been in, so far. Plenty with a 'male' thread...!!

http://www.tooled-up.com/MicroCatego...&MANUF =Bosch