VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

Wondering which of the following two Audio Valve amplifiers to buy:
Any helpful comments would be appreciated.
*
(1) PRIMALUNA PROLOGUE 2
(2) Pathos Classic One
*
Thank you for your help.
Wed 25Oct06

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

In article . com,
wrote:
Wondering which of the following two Audio Valve amplifiers to buy:
Any helpful comments would be appreciated.
*
(1) PRIMALUNA PROLOGUE 2
(2) Pathos Classic One
*

You say nothing about your own preferences or circumstances of use. Thus
unless we all happen to have preferences/circumstances which are the same
as yours we have no idea if any comments we make will apply in your case.

Nor do you give any info why you pick out the above two specific designs
from the many others which are available.

Is there some reason why you can't decide on the basis of trying the amps
for yourself?

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

On 25 Oct 2006 06:20:12 -0700, wrote:

Wondering which of the following two Audio Valve amplifiers to buy:
Any helpful comments would be appreciated.
*
(1) PRIMALUNA PROLOGUE 2
(2) Pathos Classic One

Pathos ! No contest. I've got a Pathos Logos. I love it. Read the
reviews in Stereophile of the Pathos Classic.

http://www.pathosacoustics.com/nov03.pdf

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

Wondering which of the following two Audio Valve amplifiers to buy:
Any helpful comments would be appreciated.
*
(1) PRIMALUNA PROLOGUE 2
(2) Pathos Classic One

I agree with Jim - why these two? What brought you to select these?
Power, looks, reviews, reputation.......

You're talking serious money. Do you want new or would good used be
better value? Do you have any engineering skills at all - could you do
a simple modification or is it just changing valves and cables?

If you want any useful opinions you'll have to tell us what speakers
you use, what music, and what size room just for starters.

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

wrote in message
ups.com...
Wondering which of the following two Audio Valve amplifiers to buy:
Any helpful comments would be appreciated.
*
(1) PRIMALUNA PROLOGUE 2
(2) Pathos Classic One
*

**What a bizarre question. You say NOTHING about speakers, room, sources, or
what you are attempting to achieve. Even more bizarre is that you have
restricted yourself to TWO amplifiers. There are hundreds available. Your
choice of two valve amps, is akin to asking people about buying a car, but
restricting yourself to a Model T Ford, or a similar vintage GM product. And
worst of all, is that you appear to asking the opinion of a bunch of people
you've never met. You have no idea about the listening habits, speakers or,
even more seriously, agendas, of the people who respond to your, rather
banal, question.

Here's what you SHOULD do (but you probably won't, because it makes sense):

* Ignore the opinions of those you have never met.
* Ignore magazine reviews (you have no idea what their agenda may be)
* Decide what speakers you will be using. This may, or may not place,
immediate restrictions on your choice of amplifier.
* Decide on a budget for the amplifier.
* Find a selection of amplifiers, which are in your price range and which
will suit your speakers, that are available for audition locally.
* LISTEN to those amplifiers, preferably in a blind test, WITH YOUR SPEAKERS
IN YOUR LISTENING ROOM.
* Do not spend a single cent until you've had a good listen.
* Choose the best amp.

Easy.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

wrote in message
ups.com...
Wondering which of the following two Audio Valve amplifiers to buy:
Any helpful comments would be appreciated.
*
(1) PRIMALUNA PROLOGUE 2
(2) Pathos Classic One
*
Thank you for your help.
Wed 25Oct06




The chances of anybody here having personal experience of both these amps in
their own own home, on their own systems, is probably zero so you are
effictively asking for an uninformed opinion. Those days appear to be over
in this group (?), so my advice is buy them both and flog on the one you
don't want, but if that it isn't possible you will have to what the rest of
us do - Google them to death and then try and get an audition or, better
yet, a loan of both of them.

Here's two sites for starters:

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/product.asp?itemid=25

http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/pathos-classic1_e.html


With a gun to my head for a snap decision, I would choose the Prima Luna....

Easy....

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 14:44:50 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:


You say nothing about your own preferences or circumstances of use. Thus
unless we all happen to have preferences/circumstances which are the same
as yours we have no idea if any comments we make will apply in your case.

What a load of puffed-up hot air and drivel.

The Logos and the Prima Luna amps have received a huge amount of good
press. It doesn't mean they are going to be 'the best' but for as a
short list for an integrated class A valve amps at that price point
its a great starting point. Sure go and try them out, try and get a
demo at home, but I'd say your 're on the right track.

Forget all these stuffy comments about 'hifi' being inferior to some
home made monster cobbled together in the garden shed plugged together
with chicken wire.


If you are in London try KJ West One and Guildford Audio for a demo.

Neil

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

On 25 Oct 2006 15:27:49 -0700, "Andy Evans"
wrote:

(1) PRIMALUNA PROLOGUE 2
(2) Pathos Classic One

I agree with Jim - why these two? What brought you to select these?
Power, looks, reviews, reputation.......

Reputation, talk to a reputable hifi dealer and they'd probably short-
list these two amps as a good starting point for valve amplification.
The Pathos classic is a 'classic' .

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:20:20 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

* Ignore magazine reviews (you have no idea what their agenda may be)

Another conspiracy theorist ! Some reviewers may be deaf but reviews
are a very useful starting point for drawing up a short list.

Talking to hifi dealers and research their suggestions in magazines is
a good plan.

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

* Ignore magazine reviews (you have no idea what their agenda may be)

Another conspiracy theorist ! Some reviewers may be deaf but reviews
are a very useful starting point for drawing up a short list.

Talking to hifi dealers and research their suggestions in magazines is
a good plan.

The point about size of room, speakers etc is that if the room is small
and speakers sensitive, then the OP could use something like a 2a3 or
300b amp - push pull even, doesn't have to be single ended. Other
things being equal I'd expect a PP 2a3 or 300b amp to outclass a
pentode amp with global feedback. Could be the OP already figured he
had to use pentodes because of speakers/size of room, but how do we
know?

Talking to dealers is a question of who you talk to, as are most things
in this world. I think some of us alleged "conspiracy theorists" are
simply realists.

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
oups.com...
* Ignore magazine reviews (you have no idea what their agenda may be)

Another conspiracy theorist ! Some reviewers may be deaf but reviews
are a very useful starting point for drawing up a short list.

Talking to hifi dealers and research their suggestions in magazines is
a good plan.

The point about size of room, speakers etc is that if the room is small
and speakers sensitive, then the OP could use something like a 2a3 or
300b amp - push pull even, doesn't have to be single ended. Other
things being equal I'd expect a PP 2a3 or 300b amp to outclass a
pentode amp with global feedback. Could be the OP already figured he
had to use pentodes because of speakers/size of room, but how do we
know?

Talking to dealers is a question of who you talk to, as are most things
in this world. I think some of us alleged "conspiracy theorists" are
simply realists.



The trouble with the 'strictly correct' approach such as is expounded by
Trevor is that there is a certain lack of 'real world' practicality - there
may be a branch of 'Valve Amps R Us' on a street corner in most Aussie
towns, but the truth is that getting to see/hear and, worse still, *loan*
valve amps in the UK is still no easy thing to do. Plus with a home loan
there is the baggage of feeling somewhat obliged to buy summat if the dealer
has been totally spiffing about the whole idea and usually a certain sense
of 'hurry up' with the audition.....

Narrowing the choice with the practical considerations of other kit, room
size &c. &c. to a couple of the strongest contenders by means of advice,
magazine reviews and recommendation and then buying both the 'finalists' so
that one can audition them to death with no strings attached, over as long a
period as you want (as I suggested) isn't so daft if you can move the
unwanted amp along at cost or, at least, a tolerable loss - not when you
take your time and travelling costs into account.

Whenever I have gone for 'Option C' (that being both Options A *and* B - my
SOP) I have had no trouble finding a taker for the 'loser' in such a
comparison situation. The prospective buyer usually gets the opportunity to
audition the 'spare' item at his leisure and/or a loan of it to make his
mind up with no pressure whatoever from me...

....not to mention a 'satisfaction guarantee' and money back *without
question* if anything proved disappointing for any reason within a
reasonable time period...

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 06:10:21 +0100, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:20:20 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

* Ignore magazine reviews (you have no idea what their agenda may be)

Another conspiracy theorist ! Some reviewers may be deaf but reviews
are a very useful starting point for drawing up a short list.

Talking to hifi dealers and research their suggestions in magazines is
a good plan.

And one should always try several dealers as they'd only recommend the best of their
selection, and they will not cover everything. Also if you think one set might be of
interest but the dealer will not let you demo it at home. Go to another store in the
same chain and ask again. I suggested this to a friend last summer and he went to two
more stores before he found one who would let him. He came down and paid in cash
after 6 days.

Speakers and amps work out differently for me. I buy them second hand and I am a
collector and do not choose based on sound or looks as I buy by brand only.
Ocasionally I pair up for listening. I got 7 pairs of Jamo speakers as in 2003 I felt
I needed some others so I would not have to drag the one set that stayed with me 28
years around the floor all the time to connect to any setup I wanted. I now have 6
sets in my one-room apartment and one old set in my room at my old parents. And I
have 3 amps for the ones at my parents and 9 in my apartment. I also have a larger
headphone collection which is always fun to too hook up to different amps.

I think I will buy my first tube amp for headphone use rather than actually driving
any of the regular speakers I have. I rarely use speakers actually so buying a tube
amp for that would be sad as I probably would not use it much.

Living in an apartment next to older people I tend not to play loud by any stretch of
the word loud. In fact the oldest neighbour thought my apartment was empty because
the blinds are always down and she never heard anything.
I did not tell her that she might be slightly deaf, would probably mind the mess in
my kitchen - where the blinds are always down, and probably I was letting her off
easy by being so quiet. I saw no reaosn to puncture her first impression :)

I suppose that will change if I bought a tube amp for the speakers. No doubt I can
find a set of speakers that will 'speak up'.

-Mikkel, so many things to collect.

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

"Andy Evans" wrote:

Talking to dealers is a question of who you talk to, as are most things
in this world. I think some of us alleged "conspiracy theorists" are
simply realists.

I think many realists were born out of experience :)

-Mikkel

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:20:20 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

* Ignore magazine reviews (you have no idea what their agenda may be)

Another conspiracy theorist ! Some reviewers may be deaf but reviews
are a very useful starting point for drawing up a short list.

**Why? How do you know that the reviewer did not just return from an all
expenses paid trip to The Maldives with the manufacturer of the product?


Talking to hifi dealers and research their suggestions in magazines is
a good plan.

**LISTENING in YOUR room with YOUR speaker, to a range of different products
in your price range is a good plan. Anything else is just daft.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

"Mikkel Breiler" wrote in message
...
"Andy Evans" wrote:

Talking to dealers is a question of who you talk to, as are most things
in this world. I think some of us alleged "conspiracy theorists" are
simply realists.

I think many realists were born out of experience :)


I think they *all* were....???

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 14:44:50 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:


You say nothing about your own preferences or circumstances of use. Thus
unless we all happen to have preferences/circumstances which are the same
as yours we have no idea if any comments we make will apply in your case.

What a load of puffed-up hot air and drivel.

**Bull****. Jim's words were, as usual, sensible and sane.


The Logos and the Prima Luna amps have received a huge amount of good
press.

**So what? Millions of words were printed about Saddam possessing WMDs too.
They were lies. Good press can be easily purchased by manufacturers.

It doesn't mean they are going to be 'the best' but for as a
short list for an integrated class A valve amps at that price point
its a great starting point. Sure go and try them out, try and get a
demo at home, but I'd say your 're on the right track.

**What would be far more sensible would be to assemble a whole bunch of
amps, within the price range, regardless of technology and listen to them in
a blind test.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

"Trevor Wilson" wrote


**What would be far more sensible would be to assemble a whole bunch of
amps, within the price range, regardless of technology and listen to them
in a blind test.


Yep, say 30 or 40 amps and with a little bit of help you could have the job
knocked off in an afternoon....

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

Yep, say 30 or 40 amps and with a little bit of help you could have the
job
knocked off in an afternoon....

Especially since virtually all the London stores serve champagne during
listening sessions and have a specially trained team of 6 ft Polish
blondes in mini skirts to change the cables.

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote


**What would be far more sensible would be to assemble a whole bunch of
amps, within the price range, regardless of technology and listen to them
in a blind test.


Yep, say 30 or 40 amps and with a little bit of help you could have the
job knocked off in an afternoon....


**Points:

* You would not need to listen to that many.
* LISTENING, rather than asking people who may or may not be reliable, makes
far more sense to us humans.
* Both amps quoted cost serious Squid. A good long listen makes sense and
any dealer who does not comply does not deserve the business.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
oups.com...
Yep, say 30 or 40 amps and with a little bit of help you could have the
job
knocked off in an afternoon....

Especially since virtually all the London stores serve champagne during
listening sessions and have a specially trained team of 6 ft Polish
blondes in mini skirts to change the cables.



:-Þ

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
.. .

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote


**What would be far more sensible would be to assemble a whole bunch of
amps, within the price range, regardless of technology and listen to
them in a blind test.


Yep, say 30 or 40 amps and with a little bit of help you could have the
job knocked off in an afternoon....


**Points:

* You would not need to listen to that many.


What's a 'whole bunch' then? Dozen or so...??



* LISTENING, rather than asking people who may or may not be reliable,
makes far more sense to us humans.
* Both amps quoted cost serious Squid. A good long listen makes sense and
any dealer who does not comply does not deserve the business.


Couldn't agree more - I would need the 'last few' amps for months to make a
final choice. My original suggestion is still good - buy both and flog the
'loser' on after a long trial. The speakers and how they sound on the amps
(in the listening room) would be the final decider, in any case.....

Playing Right Now: 'Ride of the Valkyres' on a pumped-up French BS 'Sampler
LP' - any more dynamics than that and I would have to run Sellotape round
the house .....

Oh gawd, it's the Slaves Chorus (Verdi) now....

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

Trevor Wilson wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:20:20 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

* Ignore magazine reviews (you have no idea what their agenda may be)

Another conspiracy theorist ! Some reviewers may be deaf but reviews
are a very useful starting point for drawing up a short list.

**Why? How do you know that the reviewer did not just return from an all
expenses paid trip to The Maldives with the manufacturer of the product?

That would be payola. Have you ever heard of an audio reviewer getting
caught taking bribes for positive reviews?





Talking to hifi dealers and research their suggestions in magazines is
a good plan.

**LISTENING in YOUR room with YOUR speaker, to a range of different products
in your price range is a good plan. Anything else is just daft.

It certainly is an ideal but if a dealer has a good room a lot can be
learned there.

Scott

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

wrote in message
oups.com...

Trevor Wilson wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:20:20 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

* Ignore magazine reviews (you have no idea what their agenda may be)

Another conspiracy theorist ! Some reviewers may be deaf but reviews
are a very useful starting point for drawing up a short list.

**Why? How do you know that the reviewer did not just return from an all
expenses paid trip to The Maldives with the manufacturer of the product?

That would be payola. Have you ever heard of an audio reviewer getting
caught taking bribes for positive reviews?

**Am I aware that it happens? Yes. Do I know if anyone has been caught? No,
I don't know.






Talking to hifi dealers and research their suggestions in magazines is
a good plan.

**LISTENING in YOUR room with YOUR speaker, to a range of different
products
in your price range is a good plan. Anything else is just daft.

It certainly is an ideal but if a dealer has a good room a lot can be
learned there.

**Some can be learned there, but without using the intended speakers, that
knowledge may be useless. Expensive equipment needs to be auditioned in
one's own home. Anything else is just not good enough.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au





--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

Trevor Wilson wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Trevor Wilson wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:20:20 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

* Ignore magazine reviews (you have no idea what their agenda may be)

Another conspiracy theorist ! Some reviewers may be deaf but reviews
are a very useful starting point for drawing up a short list.

**Why? How do you know that the reviewer did not just return from an all
expenses paid trip to The Maldives with the manufacturer of the product?

That would be payola. Have you ever heard of an audio reviewer getting
caught taking bribes for positive reviews?

**Am I aware that it happens? Yes. Do I know if anyone has been caught? No,
I don't know.

Without catching someone, how does one know it happens?







Talking to hifi dealers and research their suggestions in magazines is
a good plan.

**LISTENING in YOUR room with YOUR speaker, to a range of different
products
in your price range is a good plan. Anything else is just daft.

It certainly is an ideal but if a dealer has a good room a lot can be
learned there.

**Some can be learned there, but without using the intended speakers, that
knowledge may be useless. Expensive equipment needs to be auditioned in
one's own home. Anything else is just not good enough.


I agree about needing the right speakers. Back in the day after I
decided to Buy the Martin Logan CLSs with a Vandersteen sub I spent a
lot of time auditioning amps at that dealer. His room was larger than
mine. I think that worked out just fine. The differences I heard at the
dealer were very much the same when I finally got the speakers home and
extended those audtions,

Scott

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

wrote in message
ups.com...

Trevor Wilson wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Trevor Wilson wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:20:20 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

* Ignore magazine reviews (you have no idea what their agenda may
be)

Another conspiracy theorist ! Some reviewers may be deaf but reviews
are a very useful starting point for drawing up a short list.

**Why? How do you know that the reviewer did not just return from an
all
expenses paid trip to The Maldives with the manufacturer of the
product?

That would be payola. Have you ever heard of an audio reviewer getting
caught taking bribes for positive reviews?

**Am I aware that it happens? Yes. Do I know if anyone has been caught?
No,
I don't know.

Without catching someone, how does one know it happens?

**One is propositioned. I have been propositioned. I refused and the product
I represented was not reviewed. It is a poorly kept secret throughout the
industry. At least it was ten years ago. I can't imagine that anything much
has altered.








Talking to hifi dealers and research their suggestions in magazines
is
a good plan.

**LISTENING in YOUR room with YOUR speaker, to a range of different
products
in your price range is a good plan. Anything else is just daft.

It certainly is an ideal but if a dealer has a good room a lot can be
learned there.

**Some can be learned there, but without using the intended speakers,
that
knowledge may be useless. Expensive equipment needs to be auditioned in
one's own home. Anything else is just not good enough.


I agree about needing the right speakers. Back in the day after I
decided to Buy the Martin Logan CLSs with a Vandersteen sub I spent a
lot of time auditioning amps at that dealer. His room was larger than
mine. I think that worked out just fine. The differences I heard at the
dealer were very much the same when I finally got the speakers home and
extended those audtions,

**Exactly.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 16:48:28 +1100, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

That would be payola. Have you ever heard of an audio reviewer getting
caught taking bribes for positive reviews?

**Am I aware that it happens? Yes. Do I know if anyone has been caught? No,
I don't know.

So YOU caught him, but people close to him, i.e. his employers,
didn't? Time to do the industry a favour and spill the beans I
think! Who, where, when?

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

wrote:
Wondering which of the following two Audio Valve amplifiers to buy:
Any helpful comments would be appreciated.
*
(1) PRIMALUNA PROLOGUE 2
(2) Pathos Classic One
*
Thank you for your help.
Wed 25Oct06

I "downgraded" from a Croft/Copland set up to a Prologue 2 - I've been
very happy with it. It's quiet powerful (ie drives Esl 63s & LS5/9
easily) but I would recommend changing the valves, the stock ones are
pretty poor. The great thing about this is that you can use many types
of power valves and it stays happy - I currently use mullard 82 & 83
and GE 7581/KT66 - REAL KT88s are stupid money.

only complaint is lack of tape loop.

Go and have a listen I think it's great VFM , built superbly and seems
to be reliable.

I don't know the other amp.

Tim

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

"Tim" wrote in message
ups.com...

wrote:
Wondering which of the following two Audio Valve amplifiers to buy:
Any helpful comments would be appreciated.
*
(1) PRIMALUNA PROLOGUE 2
(2) Pathos Classic One
*
Thank you for your help.
Wed 25Oct06

I "downgraded" from a Croft/Copland set up to a Prologue 2 - I've been
very happy with it. It's quiet powerful (ie drives Esl 63s & LS5/9
easily) but I would recommend changing the valves, the stock ones are
pretty poor. The great thing about this is that you can use many types
of power valves and it stays happy - I currently use mullard 82 & 83
and GE 7581/KT66 - REAL KT88s are stupid money.



Having seen inside a burnt out one (nasty), I'd have thought it was hard to
downgrade *from* a Copland....

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message
...
On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 16:48:28 +1100, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

That would be payola. Have you ever heard of an audio reviewer getting
caught taking bribes for positive reviews?

**Am I aware that it happens? Yes. Do I know if anyone has been caught?
No,
I don't know.

So YOU caught him, but people close to him, i.e. his employers,
didn't?

**His employers? LOL! The problem is endemic. Everyone shares in the booty.

Time to do the industry a favour and spill the beans I
think! Who, where, when?

**Who? Nope. Ain't gonna happen. I'll take that information to my grave.
Where? Las Vegas.
When? 10 years ago.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
.. .

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote


**What would be far more sensible would be to assemble a whole bunch of
amps, within the price range, regardless of technology and listen to
them in a blind test.


Yep, say 30 or 40 amps and with a little bit of help you could have the
job knocked off in an afternoon....


**Points:

* You would not need to listen to that many.


What's a 'whole bunch' then? Dozen or so...??

**However many is necessary. The OP could, for instance, choose the
following as a representative sample:
* The two amps orginally asked about.
* Another quality push pull valve amp.
* A zero global NFB SS amp, which offers good performance figures.
* A high Global NFB SS amp, which offers good performance figures.

He should be able to glean most of what he needs to know by listening to the
above.




* LISTENING, rather than asking people who may or may not be reliable,
makes far more sense to us humans.
* Both amps quoted cost serious Squid. A good long listen makes sense and
any dealer who does not comply does not deserve the business.


Couldn't agree more - I would need the 'last few' amps for months to make
a final choice. My original suggestion is still good - buy both and flog
the 'loser' on after a long trial. The speakers and how they sound on the
amps (in the listening room) would be the final decider, in any case.....

**Dumb idea. Hi fi products lose value faster than new cars. Don't spend a
single Squid, until a good long listen can be had. Anything else is just
dumb.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
.. .

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
.. .

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote


**What would be far more sensible would be to assemble a whole bunch
of amps, within the price range, regardless of technology and listen
to them in a blind test.


Yep, say 30 or 40 amps and with a little bit of help you could have the
job knocked off in an afternoon....


**Points:

* You would not need to listen to that many.


What's a 'whole bunch' then? Dozen or so...??

**However many is necessary. The OP could, for instance, choose the
following as a representative sample:
* The two amps orginally asked about.
* Another quality push pull valve amp.
* A zero global NFB SS amp, which offers good performance figures.
* A high Global NFB SS amp, which offers good performance figures.

He should be able to glean most of what he needs to know by listening to
the above.




* LISTENING, rather than asking people who may or may not be reliable,
makes far more sense to us humans.
* Both amps quoted cost serious Squid. A good long listen makes sense
and any dealer who does not comply does not deserve the business.


Couldn't agree more - I would need the 'last few' amps for months to make
a final choice. My original suggestion is still good - buy both and flog
the 'loser' on after a long trial. The speakers and how they sound on the
amps (in the listening room) would be the final decider, in any case.....

**Dumb idea. Hi fi products lose value faster than new cars. Don't spend a
single Squid, until a good long listen can be had. Anything else is just
dumb.



You're talking to the wrong bloke, Trevor - I've got 3 valve amps in my
'spares cupboard' (4 if you want to split a pair of monos). I can't be arsed
with all that faffing about *borrowing* stuff just to make a pressured
decision and auditions on dealer's premises are worse than useless, IMO.....

But then, WTF do I know? The one I'm using *all the time* (natural
selection) is one of the 2 Chinese 300B SETs I got for buttons - the other
one I flogged on at *exactly* the price I paid for it. The bloke who bought
it had it to play with (with no obligation whatsoever) for a week, then
bought it from me and saved himself a 6 week wait. I didn't even have to
carry it out of the house....

;-)

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
.. .

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
.. .

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote


**What would be far more sensible would be to assemble a whole bunch
of amps, within the price range, regardless of technology and listen
to them in a blind test.


Yep, say 30 or 40 amps and with a little bit of help you could have
the job knocked off in an afternoon....


**Points:

* You would not need to listen to that many.


What's a 'whole bunch' then? Dozen or so...??

**However many is necessary. The OP could, for instance, choose the
following as a representative sample:
* The two amps orginally asked about.
* Another quality push pull valve amp.
* A zero global NFB SS amp, which offers good performance figures.
* A high Global NFB SS amp, which offers good performance figures.

He should be able to glean most of what he needs to know by listening to
the above.




* LISTENING, rather than asking people who may or may not be reliable,
makes far more sense to us humans.
* Both amps quoted cost serious Squid. A good long listen makes sense
and any dealer who does not comply does not deserve the business.


Couldn't agree more - I would need the 'last few' amps for months to
make a final choice. My original suggestion is still good - buy both and
flog the 'loser' on after a long trial. The speakers and how they sound
on the amps (in the listening room) would be the final decider, in any
case.....

**Dumb idea. Hi fi products lose value faster than new cars. Don't spend
a single Squid, until a good long listen can be had. Anything else is
just dumb.



You're talking to the wrong bloke, Trevor - I've got 3 valve amps in my
'spares cupboard' (4 if you want to split a pair of monos). I can't be
arsed with all that faffing about *borrowing* stuff just to make a
pressured decision and auditions on dealer's premises are worse than
useless, IMO.....

**I was providing advice to the OP, not you.


But then, WTF do I know?

**You buy amps, just so you can judge them? Clearly, you don't know much, or
you have money to burn. You choose.

The one I'm using *all the time* (natural
selection) is one of the 2 Chinese 300B SETs I got for buttons - the other
one I flogged on at *exactly* the price I paid for it. The bloke who
bought it had it to play with (with no obligation whatsoever) for a week,
then bought it from me and saved himself a 6 week wait. I didn't even have
to carry it out of the house....

**And I'll say it again: Hi fi products lose value faster than new cars.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
**Dumb idea. Hi fi products lose value faster than new cars. Don't
spend a single Squid, until a good long listen can be had. Anything
else is just dumb.



You're talking to the wrong bloke, Trevor - I've got 3 valve amps in my
'spares cupboard' (4 if you want to split a pair of monos). I can't be
arsed with all that faffing about *borrowing* stuff just to make a
pressured decision and auditions on dealer's premises are worse than
useless, IMO.....

But then, WTF do I know? The one I'm using *all the time* (natural
selection) is one of the 2 Chinese 300B SETs I got for buttons - the
other one I flogged on at *exactly* the price I paid for it. The bloke
who bought it had it to play with (with no obligation whatsoever) for a
week, then bought it from me and saved himself a 6 week wait. I didn't
even have to carry it out of the house....

And all these came from a dealer with loan facilities?

--
*Corduroy pillows are making headlines.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
.. .

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
.. .

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
.. .

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote


**What would be far more sensible would be to assemble a whole bunch
of amps, within the price range, regardless of technology and listen
to them in a blind test.


Yep, say 30 or 40 amps and with a little bit of help you could have
the job knocked off in an afternoon....


**Points:

* You would not need to listen to that many.


What's a 'whole bunch' then? Dozen or so...??

**However many is necessary. The OP could, for instance, choose the
following as a representative sample:
* The two amps orginally asked about.
* Another quality push pull valve amp.
* A zero global NFB SS amp, which offers good performance figures.
* A high Global NFB SS amp, which offers good performance figures.

He should be able to glean most of what he needs to know by listening to
the above.




* LISTENING, rather than asking people who may or may not be reliable,
makes far more sense to us humans.
* Both amps quoted cost serious Squid. A good long listen makes sense
and any dealer who does not comply does not deserve the business.


Couldn't agree more - I would need the 'last few' amps for months to
make a final choice. My original suggestion is still good - buy both
and flog the 'loser' on after a long trial. The speakers and how they
sound on the amps (in the listening room) would be the final decider,
in any case.....

**Dumb idea. Hi fi products lose value faster than new cars. Don't spend
a single Squid, until a good long listen can be had. Anything else is
just dumb.



You're talking to the wrong bloke, Trevor - I've got 3 valve amps in my
'spares cupboard' (4 if you want to split a pair of monos). I can't be
arsed with all that faffing about *borrowing* stuff just to make a
pressured decision and auditions on dealer's premises are worse than
useless, IMO.....

**I was providing advice to the OP, not you.



Silly me - I thought a direct reply to my post meant you were talking to
me.....




But then, WTF do I know?

**You buy amps, just so you can judge them?



Doesn't everybody....???


Clearly, you don't know much, or
you have money to burn. You choose.



OK, I'll take 'money to burn then'...... :-)



The one I'm using *all the time* (natural
selection) is one of the 2 Chinese 300B SETs I got for buttons - the
other one I flogged on at *exactly* the price I paid for it. The bloke
who bought it had it to play with (with no obligation whatsoever) for a
week, then bought it from me and saved himself a 6 week wait. I didn't
even have to carry it out of the house....

**And I'll say it again: Hi fi products lose value faster than new cars.


Depends...

I actually made a profit on a new car once - it was the only 'new model' RX7
in the country at the time, got it at a bargain price from my pet dealer
(over 30 cars from him, I should think) and I was offered 4K more than I
paid for it a few months later! But I'd certainly agree that brand new
'hifi' equipment is usually *no* investment.....

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

Keith G wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message
ups.com...

wrote:
Wondering which of the following two Audio Valve amplifiers to buy:
Any helpful comments would be appreciated.
*
(1) PRIMALUNA PROLOGUE 2
(2) Pathos Classic One
*
Thank you for your help.
Wed 25Oct06

I "downgraded" from a Croft/Copland set up to a Prologue 2 - I've been
very happy with it. It's quiet powerful (ie drives Esl 63s & LS5/9
easily) but I would recommend changing the valves, the stock ones are
pretty poor. The great thing about this is that you can use many types
of power valves and it stays happy - I currently use mullard 82 & 83
and GE 7581/KT66 - REAL KT88s are stupid money.



Having seen inside a burnt out one (nasty), I'd have thought it was hard to
downgrade *from* a Copland....


Oh they must all be **** then?

impersonates Mike Gambit in Nescafe add.

****

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

"Tim" wrote in message
oups.com...

Keith G wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message
ups.com...

wrote:
Wondering which of the following two Audio Valve amplifiers to buy:
Any helpful comments would be appreciated.
*
(1) PRIMALUNA PROLOGUE 2
(2) Pathos Classic One
*
Thank you for your help.
Wed 25Oct06

I "downgraded" from a Croft/Copland set up to a Prologue 2 - I've been
very happy with it. It's quiet powerful (ie drives Esl 63s & LS5/9
easily) but I would recommend changing the valves, the stock ones are
pretty poor. The great thing about this is that you can use many types
of power valves and it stays happy - I currently use mullard 82 & 83
and GE 7581/KT66 - REAL KT88s are stupid money.



Having seen inside a burnt out one (nasty), I'd have thought it was hard
to
downgrade *from* a Copland....


Oh they must all be **** then?


Good point - perhaps they pulled the one I saw off the production line and
gave it special *crude/flimsy internals* treatment...??

All 'top show' poncey fascia with no knickers, like a cheap (and I mean
cheap) kit amp:

http://www.soundden.com/used-item/am...d-cta50402.jpg

- far worse than the Chinese amp innards I've seen to date....



impersonates Mike Gambit in Nescafe add.


???


****


There's no need to sign your Usenet posts, Sonny - we take your ID from the
headers....

Now **** off like a good little (smartarse) boy...

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

Keith G wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message
oups.com...

Keith G wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message
ups.com...

wrote:
Wondering which of the following two Audio Valve amplifiers to buy:
Any helpful comments would be appreciated.
*
(1) PRIMALUNA PROLOGUE 2
(2) Pathos Classic One
*
Thank you for your help.
Wed 25Oct06

I "downgraded" from a Croft/Copland set up to a Prologue 2 - I've been
very happy with it. It's quiet powerful (ie drives Esl 63s & LS5/9
easily) but I would recommend changing the valves, the stock ones are
pretty poor. The great thing about this is that you can use many types
of power valves and it stays happy - I currently use mullard 82 & 83
and GE 7581/KT66 - REAL KT88s are stupid money.



Having seen inside a burnt out one (nasty), I'd have thought it was hard
to
downgrade *from* a Copland....


Oh they must all be **** then?


Good point - perhaps they pulled the one I saw off the production line and
gave it special *crude/flimsy internals* treatment...??

All 'top show' poncey fascia with no knickers, like a cheap (and I mean
cheap) kit amp:

http://www.soundden.com/used-item/am...d-cta50402.jpg

- far worse than the Chinese amp innards I've seen to date....



impersonates Mike Gambit in Nescafe add.


???


****


There's no need to sign your Usenet posts, Sonny - we take your ID from the
headers....

Now **** off like a good little (smartarse) boy...

I'm not hiding - why hide your surname? it's ****s like you that result
in this NG dying

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

"Tim" wrote in message
oups.com...

Keith G wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message
oups.com...

Keith G wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message
ups.com...

wrote:
Wondering which of the following two Audio Valve amplifiers to buy:
Any helpful comments would be appreciated.
*
(1) PRIMALUNA PROLOGUE 2
(2) Pathos Classic One
*
Thank you for your help.
Wed 25Oct06

I "downgraded" from a Croft/Copland set up to a Prologue 2 - I've
been
very happy with it. It's quiet powerful (ie drives Esl 63s & LS5/9
easily) but I would recommend changing the valves, the stock ones
are
pretty poor. The great thing about this is that you can use many
types
of power valves and it stays happy - I currently use mullard 82 & 83
and GE 7581/KT66 - REAL KT88s are stupid money.



Having seen inside a burnt out one (nasty), I'd have thought it was
hard
to
downgrade *from* a Copland....


Oh they must all be **** then?


Good point - perhaps they pulled the one I saw off the production line
and
gave it special *crude/flimsy internals* treatment...??

All 'top show' poncey fascia with no knickers, like a cheap (and I mean
cheap) kit amp:

http://www.soundden.com/used-item/am...d-cta50402.jpg

- far worse than the Chinese amp innards I've seen to date....



impersonates Mike Gambit in Nescafe add.


???


****


There's no need to sign your Usenet posts, Sonny - we take your ID from
the
headers....

Now **** off like a good little (smartarse) boy...

I'm not hiding


Who TF said you were??


- why hide your surname?


Who TF is hiding his surname?

Wot TF are you going on about?

My surname is Garratt - you would know that if you weren't just another one
of those occasional, gobby blow-ins who like to try and put the regulars
straight from time to time. The 'G' in my 'handle' is merely an identifier -
it's common enough Usenet practice...


it's ****s like you that result
in this NG dying


Er, no, it's ****s like me who keep this ng going so whiney little creeps
like you can blow-in from time to time and sound off...

A quick look at the *few* tossy little posts posts you have contributed here
tells me you also saw fit to disparage Pinky - another regular on this
group, 'til he saw sense and did a runner. Anybody else, not meeting up to
your requirements here, need sorting out?

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
.. .

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
.. .

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
.. .

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote


**What would be far more sensible would be to assemble a whole
bunch of amps, within the price range, regardless of technology and
listen to them in a blind test.


Yep, say 30 or 40 amps and with a little bit of help you could have
the job knocked off in an afternoon....


**Points:

* You would not need to listen to that many.


What's a 'whole bunch' then? Dozen or so...??

**However many is necessary. The OP could, for instance, choose the
following as a representative sample:
* The two amps orginally asked about.
* Another quality push pull valve amp.
* A zero global NFB SS amp, which offers good performance figures.
* A high Global NFB SS amp, which offers good performance figures.

He should be able to glean most of what he needs to know by listening
to the above.




* LISTENING, rather than asking people who may or may not be
reliable, makes far more sense to us humans.
* Both amps quoted cost serious Squid. A good long listen makes sense
and any dealer who does not comply does not deserve the business.


Couldn't agree more - I would need the 'last few' amps for months to
make a final choice. My original suggestion is still good - buy both
and flog the 'loser' on after a long trial. The speakers and how they
sound on the amps (in the listening room) would be the final decider,
in any case.....

**Dumb idea. Hi fi products lose value faster than new cars. Don't
spend a single Squid, until a good long listen can be had. Anything
else is just dumb.



You're talking to the wrong bloke, Trevor - I've got 3 valve amps in my
'spares cupboard' (4 if you want to split a pair of monos). I can't be
arsed with all that faffing about *borrowing* stuff just to make a
pressured decision and auditions on dealer's premises are worse than
useless, IMO.....

**I was providing advice to the OP, not you.



Silly me - I thought a direct reply to my post meant you were talking to
me.....

**Read the thread. You will rapidly become aware that I was making
suggestions to the OP.





But then, WTF do I know?

**You buy amps, just so you can judge them?



Doesn't everybody....???

**Nope. Sane people listen BEFORE they buy. Particularly sane people will
borrow the amp and listen in their own system. The wealthy and the
intellecually challenged may choose another course.



Clearly, you don't know much, or
you have money to burn. You choose.



OK, I'll take 'money to burn then'...... :-)



The one I'm using *all the time* (natural
selection) is one of the 2 Chinese 300B SETs I got for buttons - the
other one I flogged on at *exactly* the price I paid for it. The bloke
who bought it had it to play with (with no obligation whatsoever) for a
week, then bought it from me and saved himself a 6 week wait. I didn't
even have to carry it out of the house....

**And I'll say it again: Hi fi products lose value faster than new cars.


Depends...

I actually made a profit on a new car once - it was the only 'new model'
RX7 in the country at the time, got it at a bargain price from my pet
dealer (over 30 cars from him, I should think) and I was offered 4K more
than I paid for it a few months later! But I'd certainly agree that brand
new 'hifi' equipment is usually *no* investment.....

**That would be an exception rather than the rule.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

VALVE AMPLIFIERS
 

it's ****s like you that result in this NG dying

Er, no, it's ****s like me who keep this ng going so whiney little creeps
like you can blow-in from time to time and sound off...


Now now, girls, if you aren't going to keep the violece on the hockey
field, have a care for protocol...............

The Anthology of Yuk - a Beginners Guide to Newsgroup Insults

The Grammarian - "Gallic Wars has a double 'l' in case you
hadn't noticed - your spelling is as faulty as your reasoning"
The Academic attack - "It is thoroughly disingenuous of you to
class Ceasar as 'a worrier' (your term) I refer you to Gallic Wars
Vol. 3 pp 34-38"
The Rapier Wit - "Touche!"
The Lawyer - "Case closed"
The Agricultural attack - "You are nothing but a Julian pig"
The Snide Snipe - "So, Ceasar lover, how do you reconcile his
political views with his personal ambitions? Perhaps you would like to
tell us? Or have you no answer to that?"
The Sociologist - "Hovel trash"
The Passive Aggressive - "I ask you for the seventh time to explain
your term 'plebian' in this context. May I remind you that you have
still not done so"
The Dejavutist - "a simple search of the archives will reveal 234
references to 'the dark side of Caesar's ambition', 34 of them
coupled with 'his domestic circumstances' which was posted only
last month. Sheesh!"
The Medical attack - "you are truly sick"
The Medical defence - "not as sick as you are"
The Techno Assassin - "you are now in my Killfile - KILLED!!!"
The Norwegian - "Don't feed the Trolls"
The Classical attack - "Let them hate, so long as they fear -
Accius"
The Classical defence - "It is easy to be brave from a safe distance
- Aesop"
The Obscurist "If you will stop telling lies about Caesar, I will
stop telling the truth about him"

The Trader in insults -
http://cgi.ebay.roman/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=0&category=0
The John Cage defence -
The Engineer - "Stop wasting bandwidth!!"
The Executive defence - a) Yes b) No c) e-mail me d) No e) see
previous post f) surely not
The Newshound - "See todays leader
http://appian-times/gallicwars/latest"
The Surrealist - "Topaz skylight, a fish "
The Historical defence - "May I remind you of what your ancestors
did to my ancestors in 1315? - So soon one forgets!"
The East European attack - "Communist!!!"
The West European attack - "Capitalist!!!"
The English manouevre - "Of course you are, dear boy, of course you
are.........'

A Simple Transaction
A: "Idiot"
B: "Cretin"

A Crossed Transaction
A: "It is thoroughly disingenuous of you to class Ceasar as 'a
worrier' (your term) I refer you to Gallic Wars Vol. 3 pp 34-38"
B: "Hovel trash"