Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

OK, there's nobbut Kylie Minogue* and the Pyramids here today, so I'll lob
this little troll in:

Just now, on Carsick FM**, Master Bates wuz punting an album - I *think* it
was:

Track: Never Far Away
Composer: Jack White
Conductor: Joby Talbot
Orchestra/Ensemble: Millennia Ensemble
Record Label: Xl Recordings

I believe I heard the 'issue' was 3,300 CDs and 900 LPs (or 'vinyl albums'
as he called them) - I *know* I heard him say there were some (maybe only
2/300) CDs left but that *all the vinyl* has gone...

:-)

Now, how long befo

Some Yank tells us it's obsolete and therefore doesn't exist...
His toady claims the sound quality is worse than CD without even having
heard it...
Some old jiffer starts clawing at dodgy 'statistics' to prove it was only a
glitch....
One or two nobody lurkers chime in with the 'specs' and a few snide
remarks...
Other vinyl enthusiasts here keep stumm....
A couple of well-meaning types tell me I may have my preferences, however
sad...
Some crossposted stranger starts telling me what I may or may not say...

Now, the wind-up...

Larf?

Do yew not hafta....!!??

:-))


* Good luck to her with the cancer an' all, but am I the only one who
doesn't immediately think about her *singing* when the name's mentioned..??
:-)

** Yes, I know - no idea how that gets left on in the mornings here, but it
does...!!??

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...




* Good luck to her with the cancer an' all, but am I the only one who
doesn't immediately think about her *singing* when the name's
mentioned..?? :-)

**No argument from me. She's a crook actress and she can't sing her way out
of a paper bag, BUT, she has a great little arse. AND, she seems to be quite
a nice person. If she can make a Buck out it, then good luck to her. There's
a whole bunch of people with less talent (and crap looking arses) making
more money than she does. And they're bitches to boot. Madonna springs to
mind. She's only managed two decent songs in her entire career.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
.. .

"Keith G" wrote in message
...




* Good luck to her with the cancer an' all, but am I the only one who
doesn't immediately think about her *singing* when the name's
mentioned..?? :-)

**No argument from me. She's a crook actress and she can't sing her way
out of a paper bag, BUT, she has a great little arse. AND, she seems to be
quite a nice person. If she can make a Buck out it, then good luck to her.
There's a whole bunch of people with less talent (and crap looking arses)
making more money than she does. And they're bitches to boot. Madonna
springs to mind. She's only managed two decent songs in her entire career.



Well Trevor, my hat's off to you for having the knob to reply to a post with
the word 'troll' in the subject line, but you snipped the best bit - that in
a mixed release of CD and LP, the vinyl's *sold out*...!!

Puts the lie to the 'obsolete' squealing in here, doesn't it?

And with 900 out of a combined total of 4,200 albums I make that...

....er.....

.....er...

a *significant* percentage!

Which kinda deflates the *tiny minority* squealing also, does it not...??

:-))





























21.43% actually.....

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

Trevor Wilson wrote:

**No argument from me. She's a crook actress and she can't sing her way out
of a paper bag, BUT, she has a great little arse. AND, she seems to be quite
a nice person. If she can make a Buck out it, then good luck to her. There's
a whole bunch of people with less talent (and crap looking arses) making
more money than she does. And they're bitches to boot. Madonna springs to
mind. She's only managed two decent songs in her entire career.

Which two would they be then?
As far as I remember they were all pretty good in the 'eighties.

--
Eiron.

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

I believe I heard the 'issue' was 3,300 CDs and 900 LPs (or 'vinyl albums'
as he called them) - I *know* I heard him say there were some (maybe only
2/300) CDs left but that *all the vinyl* has gone...

:-)

Now, how long befo

Some Yank tells us it's obsolete and therefore doesn't exist...
His toady claims the sound quality is worse than CD without even having
heard it...
Some old jiffer starts clawing at dodgy 'statistics' to prove it was only
a glitch....
One or two nobody lurkers chime in with the 'specs' and a few snide
remarks...
Other vinyl enthusiasts here keep stumm....
A couple of well-meaning types tell me I may have my preferences, however
sad...
Some crossposted stranger starts telling me what I may or may not say...

Now, the wind-up...

Larf?

Do yew not hafta....!!??

:-))


Keith. A visit to any large audio fare where, CDs and vinyl is sold cheek by
jowl, will demonstrate to anyone where the interest lies. People are
usually
buzzing like bees around the vinyl sellers:-))

I for one am glad that the "great minds"on this and other groups have a low
opinion
of both vinyl and valve amps. It takes a little of the strain off the
demand, and helps
to keep the prices at a little more reasonable level.

I have just acquired a mint boxed set of Tchaikovsky: Complete Symphonies
VPO:Maazel. Brilliant:-)

Iain

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
Keith. A visit to any large audio fare where, CDs and vinyl is sold
cheek by jowl, will demonstrate to anyone where the interest lies.
People are usually buzzing like bees around the vinyl sellers:-))

Well yes. And if you went to an antique fare where new was also sold
which would have the most interest? You don't need to go to a 'fare' to
buy CDs...

I for one am glad that the "great minds" on this and other groups have a
low opinion of both vinyl and valve amps. It takes a little of the
strain off the demand, and helps to keep the prices at a little more
reasonable level.

Valve amps prices are at a 'resonable level' for their performance?
What planet is this on? You can better this for a fraction of the price.

I have just acquired a mint boxed set of Tchaikovsky: Complete Symphonies
VPO:Maazel. Brilliant:-)

Nice to have a mint box to look at.

--
*If we weren't meant to eat animals, why are they made of meat?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 09:24:01 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:

Keith. A visit to any large audio fare where, CDs and vinyl is sold cheek by
jowl, will demonstrate to anyone where the interest lies. People are
usually
buzzing like bees around the vinyl sellers:-))

So there's a small but enthusiastic following for vinyl. Of which a
few will worship vinyl per se, but most will be interested in the
music on the vinyl.

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 09:24:01 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:

Keith. A visit to any large audio fare where, CDs and vinyl is sold cheek
by
jowl, will demonstrate to anyone where the interest lies. People are
usually
buzzing like bees around the vinyl sellers:-))

So there's a small but enthusiastic following for vinyl. Of which a
few will worship vinyl per se, but most will be interested in the
music on the vinyl.

I have the feeling that the following is larger than one might
suspect. There is a huge amount of music which has not
been issued on CD. This includes many definitive versions
of classical works, and a lot of good jazz.

Iain

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

"Iain Churches" wrote


Keith. A visit to any large audio fare where, CDs and vinyl is sold cheek
by
jowl, will demonstrate to anyone where the interest lies. People are
usually
buzzing like bees around the vinyl sellers:-))


So I gather - have never been to one myself....



I for one am glad that the "great minds"on this and other groups have a
low opinion
of both vinyl and valve amps. It takes a little of the strain off the
demand, and helps
to keep the prices at a little more reasonable level.

I have just acquired a mint boxed set of Tchaikovsky: Complete Symphonies
VPO:Maazel. Brilliant:-)


That remark had me checking my 'boxes'! :-)

I have two boxed sets of Tchike - one is The Hague Philharmonic
Orch/Otterloo and the other has no details of the band or conductor but
merely states 'Dacrop Recordings, complete & uncut'...??? A treat for later,
if I can push past my current 'opera/lieder fixation'...!!

(I love boxed sets - very often they are completely *unplayed* or only Side
1/Disc 1 has been played!! :-)

While I'm on....

I have only just recently restored my Jerichos to my room:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/pianoblack2.JPG

They are troublesome boxes and, even with the EX3s in them, can sound very
hoarse/croaky on speech. Sometimes, if I walk in on them with Classick FM
(DAB) on and an announcement's in progress they can sound quite 'quacky'!!
Then the music starts and that's all gone, thankfully, but I've got them
under close scrute atm and fully expect to have to do something about them!

But....

Last night I was actually watching summat on the telly (rare) with the sound
from my PVR routed out through the Jerichos - My god! What *imaging* and
*soundstaging*!! It is impossible to describe the *3D* quality - speech was
coming direct from the actor's mouths (not uncommon, I know) but the rest of
the sounds were laid out with perfect separation, depth and clarity. (It was
better than I have ever heard from any 'surround sound'..!!)

Now, what makes this so interesting is that the TV is was only a metre or so
away (small, portable) and the speakers getting on for 3m away and somewhat
offset, in relation to the telly. Despite this, the sound overall was
*perfectly* placed. Once I became aware of this, I concentrated on trying to
'break it' (track it to the drivers, IYSWIM) and found it almost impossible
to do and I could 'reset it' immediately by closing my eyes at anytime!!

The reason I mention this (very tempted not to, for obvious reasons) is that
I suspect you have 'glanced off' Lowthers - am I correct??

They are *without doubt* truly remarkable speakers - once you 'get it' with
them and can overcome (or tune out) the odd 'characteristic' (see 'quacky'
above) there's no going back to ordinary speakers, believe me....!!

(Btw, ignore the usual silly remarks about top and bottom octaves - they are
no more deficient in these areas that most/many other speakers....)

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
Keith. A visit to any large audio fare where, CDs and vinyl is sold
cheek by jowl, will demonstrate to anyone where the interest lies.
People are usually buzzing like bees around the vinyl sellers:-))

Well yes. And if you went to an antique fare where new was also sold
which would have the most interest? You don't need to go to a 'fare' to
buy CDs...

Sorry about the spelling, Dave. Better than "fayre" though:-)

Not actually being in the record business, you probably do
not see the deletions lists that the companies issue monthly.
Huge numbers of CDs have disappeared. Hence the interest
at fairs.

As regards vinyl, take a look at the vinyl catalogues
of EMI, Decca, RCA, DG from the late 70's and compare
them with the current CD catalogues. A huge amount of
excellent material has never been re-issued.

I have just acquired a mint boxed set of Tchaikovsky: Complete Symphonies
VPO:Maazel. Brilliant:-)

Nice to have a mint box to look at.

You have clearly missed the point - hopefully not intentionally:-)

Iain

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Iain Churches" wrote


Keith. A visit to any large audio fare where, CDs and vinyl is sold cheek
by
jowl, will demonstrate to anyone where the interest lies. People are
usually
buzzing like bees around the vinyl sellers:-))


So I gather - have never been to one myself....

Great fun. I always come away with some goodies:-)

I have just acquired a mint boxed set of Tchaikovsky: Complete Symphonies
VPO:Maazel. Brilliant:-)


That remark had me checking my 'boxes'! :-)

I have two boxed sets of Tchike - one is The Hague Philharmonic
Orch/Otterloo and the other has no details of the band or conductor but
merely states 'Dacrop Recordings, complete & uncut'...??? A treat for
later, if I can push past my current 'opera/lieder fixation'...!!

(I love boxed sets - very often they are completely *unplayed* or only
Side 1/Disc 1 has been played!! :-)

Yes indeed. This applies in particular to Readers' Digest boxed sets (like
the
40 sides of Mantovani, which sold in huge numbers!!)

Imagine - 40 sides of Mantovani!!!

While I'm on....

I have only just recently restored my Jerichos to my room:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/pianoblack2.JPG

They are troublesome boxes and, even with the EX3s in them, can sound very
hoarse/croaky on speech. Sometimes, if I walk in on them with Classick FM
(DAB) on and an announcement's in progress they can sound quite 'quacky'!!
Then the music starts and that's all gone, thankfully, but I've got them
under close scrute atm and fully expect to have to do something about
them!

Please keep us informed. I am hoping to be able to borrow for evaluation
a pair of Lowther Delphic (2xEX3 in each enclosure, about 170 litres)
in the New year. I am very much looking forward to it.


They are *without doubt* truly remarkable speakers - once you 'get it'
with them and can overcome (or tune out) the odd 'characteristic' (see
'quacky' above) there's no going back to ordinary speakers, believe
me....!!

(Btw, ignore the usual silly remarks about top and bottom octaves - they
are no more deficient in these areas that most/many other speakers....)

My personal experience is that the LF is a little weak. One would expect
the eight orchestral basses on Prokofiev Op.25 to have a little more "grunt"
As regards the top end, I agree with you. I do not find them lacking.

Iain

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

"Iain Churches" wrote


Yes indeed. This applies in particular to Readers' Digest boxed sets
(like the
40 sides of Mantovani, which sold in huge numbers!!)

Imagine - 40 sides of Mantovani!!!



I don't have to *imagine* it....

....I've *got* it....!! ;-)


(Can't beat a bit of Mantovani when you're doing the polishing wiv yer
yellow Marigolds on!! :-)



They are troublesome boxes and, even with the EX3s in them, can sound
very hoarse/croaky on speech. Sometimes, if I walk in on them with
Classick FM (DAB) on and an announcement's in progress they can sound
quite 'quacky'!! Then the music starts and that's all gone, thankfully,
but I've got them under close scrute atm and fully expect to have to do
something about them!

Please keep us informed.


Will do. I'm still scunnered by the idea of *filters* and am wondering what
may be done with an equaliser and at what point in the signal chain...??


I am hoping to be able to borrow for evaluation
a pair of Lowther Delphic (2xEX3 in each enclosure, about 170 litres)
in the New year. I am very much looking forward to it.


Right, well I look forward to hearing all about that, come the time. The
worst thing with 'Lowthers' is trying to *evaluate* them - they need using
over a period of time and on a range of material before any meaningful
conclusions can be drawn. Trust me, the 'resin clouds' become very well
defined after a while with them!!

(It has been often said here, quite correctly, that *wow factor* is the one
thing you *don't* need with speakers, but an eventual *my goodness* factor
is definitely to be desired, IMO.... ;-)


(Btw, ignore the usual silly remarks about top and bottom octaves - they
are no more deficient in these areas that most/many other speakers....)

My personal experience is that the LF is a little weak. One would expect
the eight orchestral basses on Prokofiev Op.25 to have a little more
"grunt"
As regards the top end, I agree with you. I do not find them lacking.



The LF issue is an interesting one - the question of 'perspective' comes
into the equation. Basses in an orchestra that has been recorded well enough
to represent the scale and perspective of an 'orchestral' piece should
never, IMO, sound like the sort of bass that would keep a Chav happy in his
hatchback! I'm not of the school that all speakers should do all things
equally well - cabinet design is paramount here and I'm not sure I'd
recommend 'FR horns' to people who wanted the sort of 'in yer face',
percussive bass that will flap yer trousers!

For them that want the clarity and insight of horns but also appreciate the
visceral, low bass of good organ music, there's always the option of a sub -
which is no more or less the case than with most other speakers with cones
of similar (or less) dimension to the not insubstantial 232mm of most
Lowthers!!

Personally, I think I'm baulking at the idea of a sub (I don't see how one
could possibly 'keep up') and, hopefully sometime soon, will be looking at
the idea of 'box enclosures':

http://melhuish.org/audio/box.html

.....as, good a sound as I think it is I'm getting now, I do get the feeling
my 'organ' could do with a little help at times...??

:-)

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

In article , Keith G
wrote:
It is impossible to describe the *3D* quality - speech was coming
direct from the actor's mouths (not uncommon, I know)

ITYM from the centre of the speakers. It's mono in 99.9% of the progs on
TV. If you're hearing it coming from the actor's mouths, you're fooling
yourself.

but the rest of the sounds were laid out with perfect separation, depth
and clarity.

Be nice if you mentioned what you were watching.

(It
was better than I have ever heard from any 'surround sound'..!!)

Nothing unusual there. I've yet to hear domestic surround which I prefer
to stereo. They all mess up the important bit - the front sound stage, to
some extent. Only one I liked was Ambisonics.

--
*All those who believe in psychokinesis, raise my hand *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
. ..

"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 09:24:01 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:

Keith. A visit to any large audio fare where, CDs and vinyl is sold cheek
by
jowl, will demonstrate to anyone where the interest lies. People are
usually
buzzing like bees around the vinyl sellers:-))

So there's a small but enthusiastic following for vinyl. Of which a
few will worship vinyl per se, but most will be interested in the
music on the vinyl.

I have the feeling that the following is larger than one might
suspect. There is a huge amount of music which has not
been issued on CD. This includes many definitive versions
of classical works, and a lot of good jazz.

Wow! What a reliable definitive statement: "I have the feeling".

Iain, I have reliable knowledge that you're hyper-conservative, highly
biased and egocentric.

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
. ..

"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 09:24:01 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:

Keith. A visit to any large audio fare where, CDs and vinyl is sold
cheek
by
jowl, will demonstrate to anyone where the interest lies. People are
usually
buzzing like bees around the vinyl sellers:-))

So there's a small but enthusiastic following for vinyl. Of which a
few will worship vinyl per se, but most will be interested in the
music on the vinyl.

I have the feeling that the following is larger than one might
suspect. There is a huge amount of music which has not
been issued on CD. This includes many definitive versions
of classical works, and a lot of good jazz.

Wow! What a reliable definitive statement: "I have the feeling".

Iain, I have reliable knowledge that you're hyper-conservative, highly
biased and egocentric.


LOL.

Thanks, Arnie
You "Born Again Christians" are such *nice* people:-)

Cordially
Iain

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Iain Churches" wrote


Yes indeed. This applies in particular to Readers' Digest boxed sets
(like the
40 sides of Mantovani, which sold in huge numbers!!)

Imagine - 40 sides of Mantovani!!!



I don't have to *imagine* it....

...I've *got* it....!! ;-)

Gosh:-))



(Can't beat a bit of Mantovani when you're doing the polishing wiv yer
yellow Marigolds on!! :-)

Don't you have a butler to do that?

There were stories that Decca had a set of "special" violins that
were used only on Mantovani recordings, to make the unmistakeable
"shimmering sound" !!

In fact, the sound, which made the Mantovani orchestra instantly
recognisable, and helped to make him the biggest selling artist
in the UK pre Beatles, was down to his arranger Ronald Binge
(the man who is best known for his composition "Elizabethan
Serenade")

I am hoping to be able to borrow for evaluation
a pair of Lowther Delphic (2xEX3 in each enclosure, about 170 litres)
in the New year. I am very much looking forward to it.


Right, well I look forward to hearing all about that, come the time. The
worst thing with 'Lowthers' is trying to *evaluate* them - they need using
over a period of time and on a range of material before any meaningful
conclusions can be drawn. Trust me, the 'resin clouds' become very well
defined after a while with them!!

It took me quite a long time to get to grips with them, and to appreciate
there strengths and weaknesses. As mentioned before, I was listening to
an unknown pair of speakers (in facts several sets) driven by an unknown
amp in an unknown room. Two variables too many! But still, I was pleased
by what I heard.


(It has been often said here, quite correctly, that *wow factor* is the
one thing you *don't* need with speakers, but an eventual *my goodness*
factor is definitely to be desired, IMO.... ;-)

Wow factor has never been of interest. I use recordings that I know
intimately, and so I also know how they should (can) sound.


(Btw, ignore the usual silly remarks about top and bottom octaves - they
are no more deficient in these areas that most/many other speakers....)

My personal experience is that the LF is a little weak. One would expect
the eight orchestral basses on Prokofiev Op.25 to have a little more
"grunt"
As regards the top end, I agree with you. I do not find them lacking.



The LF issue is an interesting one - the question of 'perspective' comes
into the equation. Basses in an orchestra that has been recorded well
enough to represent the scale and perspective of an 'orchestral' piece
should never, IMO, sound like the sort of bass that would keep a Chav
happy in his hatchback! I'm not of the school that all speakers should do
all things equally well - cabinet design is paramount here and I'm not
sure I'd recommend 'FR horns' to people who wanted the sort of 'in yer
face', percussive bass that will flap yer trousers!

No trouser flapping required. But realism has to be the objective. I have
heard the Prokofiev handled better by both Tannoy and B+W, but again,
I was also listening in an unfamilar room, so cannot put any shortcomings
down to the speakers alone.

Iain

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote


(Can't beat a bit of Mantovani when you're doing the polishing wiv yer
yellow Marigolds on!! :-)

Don't you have a butler to do that?


I *am* the sodding butler......

('Recordist' atm though - excuse any typos, I'm trying to type silently!!
:-)




There were stories that Decca had a set of "special" violins that
were used only on Mantovani recordings, to make the unmistakeable
"shimmering sound" !!


:-)



In fact, the sound, which made the Mantovani orchestra instantly
recognisable, and helped to make him the biggest selling artist
in the UK pre Beatles, was down to his arranger Ronald Binge
(the man who is best known for his composition "Elizabethan
Serenade")



Yep, but what put me onto him was the fabulous tune 'Sailing By' that used
to close R4 in the wee small hours, after the Shipping Forecast. A truly
magical experience hearing that late on a balmy summer's night, I can tell
you!.

I have a CD of his better known stuff:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Binge.JPG


(But don't let Arny know, or I'll lose my 'vinyl bigot' status...!! ;-)




I am hoping to be able to borrow for evaluation
a pair of Lowther Delphic (2xEX3 in each enclosure, about 170 litres)
in the New year. I am very much looking forward to it.


Right, well I look forward to hearing all about that, come the time. The
worst thing with 'Lowthers' is trying to *evaluate* them - they need
using
over a period of time and on a range of material before any meaningful
conclusions can be drawn. Trust me, the 'resin clouds' become very well
defined after a while with them!!

It took me quite a long time to get to grips with them, and to appreciate
there strengths and weaknesses. As mentioned before, I was listening to
an unknown pair of speakers (in facts several sets) driven by an unknown
amp in an unknown room. Two variables too many! But still, I was pleased
by what I heard.


Good, but 'living with them' for a number of months is the only way, as you
know!



(It has been often said here, quite correctly, that *wow factor* is the
one thing you *don't* need with speakers, but an eventual *my goodness*
factor is definitely to be desired, IMO.... ;-)

Wow factor has never been of interest. I use recordings that I know
intimately, and so I also know how they should (can) sound.



I think when I got into the horns I was surprised on many occasions to hear
stuff 'for the very first time' - instruments and even words that had never
been properly revealed before even on very familiar recordings! I'm sure
you'll notice the same thing!



The LF issue is an interesting one - the question of 'perspective' comes
into the equation. Basses in an orchestra that has been recorded well
enough to represent the scale and perspective of an 'orchestral' piece
should never, IMO, sound like the sort of bass that would keep a Chav
happy in his hatchback! I'm not of the school that all speakers should do
all things equally well - cabinet design is paramount here and I'm not
sure I'd recommend 'FR horns' to people who wanted the sort of 'in yer
face', percussive bass that will flap yer trousers!

No trouser flapping required. But realism has to be the objective. I have
heard the Prokofiev handled better by both Tannoy and B+W, but again,
I was also listening in an unfamilar room, so cannot put any shortcomings
down to the speakers alone.


Yes, I have Ruarks and Tannoys here that would do some things better also -
including the afore-mentioned organ music..!!

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
wrote:
It is impossible to describe the *3D* quality - speech was coming
direct from the actor's mouths (not uncommon, I know)

ITYM from the centre of the speakers.


No! Straight from their mouths on the TV screen - that's the whole point!!
(The TV was close up and off to one side, the speakers much further back!)


It's mono in 99.9% of the progs on
TV. If you're hearing it coming from the actor's mouths, you're fooling
yourself.


Yes, of course - that's how it works!! (It's mind over matter! :-)

You/one can normally 'reset' sound by closing your eyes and centering on it,
but my point here is that the illusion won!



but the rest of the sounds were laid out with perfect separation, depth
and clarity.

Be nice if you mentioned what you were watching.


No idea, if it was live (I normally watch from my hard disk but rarely watch
a whole prog in one go) - if it was last night, could it have been summat
like 'Spooks'..??? (Which I've never seen, but am aware of!)



(It
was better than I have ever heard from any 'surround sound'..!!)

Nothing unusual there. I've yet to hear domestic surround which I prefer
to stereo. They all mess up the important bit - the front sound stage, to
some extent. Only one I liked was Ambisonics.


Never heard that myself...

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

"Keith G" wrote


Yep, but what put me onto him was the fabulous tune 'Sailing By' that used
to close R4 in the wee small hours, after the Shipping Forecast. A truly
magical experience hearing that late on a balmy summer's night, I can tell
you!.


Here - in the finest 'Show N Tell' tradition, I have posted it for you:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...iling%20By.mp3

Enjoy!!

:-)

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
In fact, the sound, which made the Mantovani orchestra instantly
recognisable, and helped to make him the biggest selling artist
in the UK pre Beatles, was down to his arranger Ronald Binge
(the man who is best known for his composition "Elizabethan
Serenade")



Yep, but what put me onto him was the fabulous tune 'Sailing By' that
used to close R4 in the wee small hours, after the Shipping Forecast. A
truly magical experience hearing that late on a balmy summer's night, I
can tell you!.

Except that it's not by him. It's library music - the sort issued for pro
use where you don't buy the actual CD but just pay for the usage. And
played by session musicians. It may of course have been issued
commercially afterwards.

--
*Can vegetarians eat animal crackers?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
wrote:
It is impossible to describe the *3D* quality - speech was coming
direct from the actor's mouths (not uncommon, I know)

ITYM from the centre of the speakers.


No! Straight from their mouths on the TV screen - that's the whole
point!! (The TV was close up and off to one side, the speakers much
further back!)

You've lost me now...

It's mono in 99.9% of the progs on TV. If you're hearing it coming
from the actor's mouths, you're fooling yourself.


Yes, of course - that's how it works!! (It's mind over matter! :-)

You/one can normally 'reset' sound by closing your eyes and centering on
it, but my point here is that the illusion won!

Sure you didn't have the TV speaker on too? ;-)



but the rest of the sounds were laid out with perfect separation,
depth and clarity.

Be nice if you mentioned what you were watching.


No idea, if it was live (I normally watch from my hard disk but rarely
watch a whole prog in one go) - if it was last night, could it have
been summat like 'Spooks'..??? (Which I've never seen, but am aware of!)

Ah - right. Yes, It's quite well made, sound wise.



(It
was better than I have ever heard from any 'surround sound'..!!)

Nothing unusual there. I've yet to hear domestic surround which I
prefer to stereo. They all mess up the important bit - the front sound
stage, to some extent. Only one I liked was Ambisonics.


Never heard that myself...

It's impressive. Consists of four full range speakers - one in each corner
of the soundstage, and four others, two each side half way between the
mains with one low, one high. You can move near anywhere within the
boundaries of the speakers without losing image. The setup I heard used
BBC LS 5/8 as the mains and 3/5A as the sides. Requires one amp per
speaker in case that wasn't clear - each fed from the decoder. The demo
material was recorded on a Calrec Soundfield mic which is effectively four
mics in one. Then a matrix to provide the surround. Fiendishly expensive
then for the whole setup, but by far the best I've heard.

--
*When the going gets tough, the tough take a coffee break *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
In fact, the sound, which made the Mantovani orchestra instantly
recognisable, and helped to make him the biggest selling artist
in the UK pre Beatles, was down to his arranger Ronald Binge
(the man who is best known for his composition "Elizabethan
Serenade")



Yep, but what put me onto him was the fabulous tune 'Sailing By' that
used to close R4 in the wee small hours, after the Shipping Forecast. A
truly magical experience hearing that late on a balmy summer's night, I
can tell you!.

Except that it's not by him. It's library music - the sort issued for pro
use where you don't buy the actual CD but just pay for the usage. And
played by session musicians. It may of course have been issued
commercially afterwards.




Dave. I have never had the chance to listen to the title you refer to,
but "Sailing By" is a well-known title by Ronald Binge, and according to
the link, it was used by R4 after the shipping forecast:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/help/faqs_4.shtml


It may well be that this started out as library music, although I cannot
find it in any of the catalogues I have. The recording copyright
is accredited to EMI.

"Sailing By" is also the title of Ronald Binge's biography by
Mike Carey. It's a most interesting book, and covers in some
detail the Binge/Mantovani relationship.

Iain

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
wrote:
It is impossible to describe the *3D* quality - speech was coming
direct from the actor's mouths (not uncommon, I know)

ITYM from the centre of the speakers.


No! Straight from their mouths on the TV screen - that's the whole
point!! (The TV was close up and off to one side, the speakers much
further back!)

You've lost me now...

It's mono in 99.9% of the progs on TV. If you're hearing it coming
from the actor's mouths, you're fooling yourself.


Yes, of course - that's how it works!! (It's mind over matter! :-)

You/one can normally 'reset' sound by closing your eyes and centering on
it, but my point here is that the illusion won!

Sure you didn't have the TV speaker on too? ;-)



Quite certain. The point is that the 'stereo sound' was perfectly preserved
and believable despite the poor position of the TV screen in relation to the
sound sources. This is because the sounds are so 'out of the speakers' and
producing solid/3D images....



No idea, if it was live (I normally watch from my hard disk but rarely
watch a whole prog in one go) - if it was last night, could it have
been summat like 'Spooks'..??? (Which I've never seen, but am aware of!)

Ah - right. Yes, It's quite well made, sound wise.


....and the reason I can't even visualise the screen much (or what was on) is
because I was concentrating on the 'sound picture' from the speakers!

(This was over an done with in so many seconds - it was the act of
*noticing* it that was the revelatory moment....)





(It
was better than I have ever heard from any 'surround sound'..!!)

Nothing unusual there. I've yet to hear domestic surround which I
prefer to stereo. They all mess up the important bit - the front sound
stage, to some extent. Only one I liked was Ambisonics.


Never heard that myself...

It's impressive. Consists of four full range speakers - one in each corner
of the soundstage, and four others, two each side half way between the
mains with one low, one high. You can move near anywhere within the
boundaries of the speakers without losing image. The setup I heard used
BBC LS 5/8 as the mains and 3/5A as the sides. Requires one amp per
speaker in case that wasn't clear - each fed from the decoder. The demo
material was recorded on a Calrec Soundfield mic which is effectively four
mics in one. Then a matrix to provide the surround. Fiendishly expensive
then for the whole setup, but by far the best I've heard.



And not dead yet it seems:

http://www.ambisonic.net/gformat.html

I haven't read much of that myself, but it appears there's still interest in
it and possibly something of a future for it?

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
In fact, the sound, which made the Mantovani orchestra instantly
recognisable, and helped to make him the biggest selling artist
in the UK pre Beatles, was down to his arranger Ronald Binge
(the man who is best known for his composition "Elizabethan
Serenade")



Yep, but what put me onto him was the fabulous tune 'Sailing By' that
used to close R4 in the wee small hours, after the Shipping Forecast. A
truly magical experience hearing that late on a balmy summer's night, I
can tell you!.

Except that it's not by him. It's library music - the sort issued for pro
use where you don't buy the actual CD but just pay for the usage. And
played by session musicians. It may of course have been issued
commercially afterwards.




Dave. I have never had the chance to listen to the title you refer to,
but "Sailing By" is a well-known title by Ronald Binge, and according to
the link, it was used by R4 after the shipping forecast:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/help/faqs_4.shtml




Oh, good to know I wasn't *dreaming* on the countless occasions I sat
through the whole Shipping Forecast in the hope it came on, then! ;-)

It was never *definite* - sometimes they didn't play it. In fact, I believe
they dropped it at one time not so long ago and there was an outcry to have
it reinstated...??


This, cut and pasted from my own Google search:

"Occasionally, Sailing By might not be played at all because of time
constraints. The version of Sailing By that Radio 4 use is not available
commercially. ..."

from the description of the same BBC link...???

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:41:26 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:


Never heard that myself...

It's impressive. Consists of four full range speakers - one in each corner
of the soundstage, and four others, two each side half way between the
mains with one low, one high. You can move near anywhere within the
boundaries of the speakers without losing image. The setup I heard used
BBC LS 5/8 as the mains and 3/5A as the sides. Requires one amp per
speaker in case that wasn't clear - each fed from the decoder. The demo
material was recorded on a Calrec Soundfield mic which is effectively four
mics in one. Then a matrix to provide the surround. Fiendishly expensive
then for the whole setup, but by far the best I've heard.



And not dead yet it seems:

http://www.ambisonic.net/gformat.html

I haven't read much of that myself, but it appears there's still interest in
it and possibly something of a future for it?


Stereo you can sort of pop in the corner and forget about it. An
Ambisonics setup takes over the room - not good.

I have heard it, but I'm not sure where; probably at the BBC research
place down at Kingswood Warren. It was certainly the closest I have
ever heard to "being there".

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:49:39 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Iain Churches" wrote in message
t...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
In fact, the sound, which made the Mantovani orchestra instantly
recognisable, and helped to make him the biggest selling artist
in the UK pre Beatles, was down to his arranger Ronald Binge
(the man who is best known for his composition "Elizabethan
Serenade")



Yep, but what put me onto him was the fabulous tune 'Sailing By' that
used to close R4 in the wee small hours, after the Shipping Forecast. A
truly magical experience hearing that late on a balmy summer's night, I
can tell you!.

Except that it's not by him. It's library music - the sort issued for pro
use where you don't buy the actual CD but just pay for the usage. And
played by session musicians. It may of course have been issued
commercially afterwards.




Dave. I have never had the chance to listen to the title you refer to,
but "Sailing By" is a well-known title by Ronald Binge, and according to
the link, it was used by R4 after the shipping forecast:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/help/faqs_4.shtml




Oh, good to know I wasn't *dreaming* on the countless occasions I sat
through the whole Shipping Forecast in the hope it came on, then! ;-)

It was never *definite* - sometimes they didn't play it. In fact, I believe
they dropped it at one time not so long ago and there was an outcry to have
it reinstated...??


This, cut and pasted from my own Google search:

"Occasionally, Sailing By might not be played at all because of time
constraints. The version of Sailing By that Radio 4 use is not available
commercially. ..."

from the description of the same BBC link...???



But can you remember every folk song in the medley that started the
day? I'll start you with Greensleeves and Early One Morning.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

"Don Pearce" wrote


"Occasionally, Sailing By might not be played at all because of time
constraints. The version of Sailing By that Radio 4 use is not available
commercially. ..."

from the description of the same BBC link...???



But can you remember every folk song in the medley that started the
day? I'll start you with Greensleeves and Early One Morning.



No, but you have reminded me of a very striking bit of music that preceded
transmissions very early in the morning on one station. It was not *unlike*
the music for What The Papers Say and went summat like:

Dadum dum di dum, da da di, da da di da dum....

???

Any idea - it's driving me nuts now!! (Swim thinks it might be Holst...??)

I've also got a hazy memory that it might have been preceded by some pips?
The radio certainly used to go into a 'ready mode' just before the music
stated. All quite exciting in an 'anticipatorial' kinda way!! :-)

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

"Don Pearce" wrote


And not dead yet it seems:

http://www.ambisonic.net/gformat.html

I haven't read much of that myself, but it appears there's still interest
in
it and possibly something of a future for it?


Stereo you can sort of pop in the corner and forget about it. An
Ambisonics setup takes over the room - not good.

I have heard it, but I'm not sure where; probably at the BBC research
place down at Kingswood Warren. It was certainly the closest I have
ever heard to "being there".



I should certainly like to hear it, but I have no use for 'surround sound'
as such - OK on 1 movie in 10 I suppose, otherwise the wires and speakers
are a pain....

The whole point of struggling with horns and triodes (and the black stuff)
is to get the very best *stereo* effect - when the images become very *real*
and 3D and render 'surround' trickery entirely unnecessary, IMLE...!!

(That said, 80% of my listening is mono, for one reason or another!! :-)

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:49:52 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote


"Occasionally, Sailing By might not be played at all because of time
constraints. The version of Sailing By that Radio 4 use is not available
commercially. ..."

from the description of the same BBC link...???



But can you remember every folk song in the medley that started the
day? I'll start you with Greensleeves and Early One Morning.



No, but you have reminded me of a very striking bit of music that preceded
transmissions very early in the morning on one station. It was not *unlike*
the music for What The Papers Say and went summat like:

Dadum dum di dum, da da di, da da di da dum....

???

Any idea - it's driving me nuts now!! (Swim thinks it might be Holst...??)

I've also got a hazy memory that it might have been preceded by some pips?
The radio certainly used to go into a 'ready mode' just before the music
stated. All quite exciting in an 'anticipatorial' kinda way!! :-)




Oh, that one! Er - no.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:00:18 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote


And not dead yet it seems:

http://www.ambisonic.net/gformat.html

I haven't read much of that myself, but it appears there's still interest
in
it and possibly something of a future for it?


Stereo you can sort of pop in the corner and forget about it. An
Ambisonics setup takes over the room - not good.

I have heard it, but I'm not sure where; probably at the BBC research
place down at Kingswood Warren. It was certainly the closest I have
ever heard to "being there".



I should certainly like to hear it, but I have no use for 'surround sound'
as such - OK on 1 movie in 10 I suppose, otherwise the wires and speakers
are a pain....

The whole point of struggling with horns and triodes (and the black stuff)
is to get the very best *stereo* effect - when the images become very *real*
and 3D and render 'surround' trickery entirely unnecessary, IMLE...!!

(That said, 80% of my listening is mono, for one reason or another!! :-)



No it isn't like surround sound - noises coming from behind you and
suchlike. When the Ambisonics is on, all the music still comes from
"over there", but there is a feeling that you are surrounded by the
concert hall rather than your living room.

I suppose it could be used as an effect, but so far what I've heard
does appear to be a serious attempt at true immersion.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...


The version of Sailing By that Radio 4 use is not available commercially.
..."

from the description of the same BBC link...???

This may no longer be the case (or it was probably re-recorded)
as I had an e-mail from someone who reads (but does not post on)
UKRA who told me that there is a CD of Ronald Binge music, which
includes this, and other well known titles.

The CD is called, (yes you guessed it) "Sailing By"

Iain

PS Just spoken with an old Decca pal, he tells me there is a double
CD of the music of Ronald Binge, on the ASV label. Some titles
are conducted by the composer and some by Charles Gerhardt.
Orchestras a National Philharmonic and South German Radio
Symphony Orch.

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
. ..

"Keith G" wrote in message
...


The version of Sailing By that Radio 4 use is not available commercially.
..."

from the description of the same BBC link...???

This may no longer be the case (or it was probably re-recorded)
as I had an e-mail from someone who reads (but does not post on)
UKRA who told me that there is a CD of Ronald Binge music, which
includes this, and other well known titles.

The CD is called, (yes you guessed it) "Sailing By"

Iain

PS Just spoken with an old Decca pal, he tells me there is a double
CD of the music of Ronald Binge, on the ASV label. Some titles
are conducted by the composer and some by Charles Gerhardt.
Orchestras a National Philharmonic and South German Radio
Symphony Orch.



Did you not see this link to a pic of my own 'Binge' CD?

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Binge.JPG

Note the title of Track 19....

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:00:18 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote


And not dead yet it seems:

http://www.ambisonic.net/gformat.html

I haven't read much of that myself, but it appears there's still
interest
in
it and possibly something of a future for it?


Stereo you can sort of pop in the corner and forget about it. An
Ambisonics setup takes over the room - not good.

I have heard it, but I'm not sure where; probably at the BBC research
place down at Kingswood Warren. It was certainly the closest I have
ever heard to "being there".



I should certainly like to hear it, but I have no use for 'surround sound'
as such - OK on 1 movie in 10 I suppose, otherwise the wires and speakers
are a pain....

The whole point of struggling with horns and triodes (and the black stuff)
is to get the very best *stereo* effect - when the images become very
*real*
and 3D and render 'surround' trickery entirely unnecessary, IMLE...!!

(That said, 80% of my listening is mono, for one reason or another!! :-)



No it isn't like surround sound - noises coming from behind you and
suchlike. When the Ambisonics is on, all the music still comes from
"over there", but there is a feeling that you are surrounded by the
concert hall rather than your living room.

I suppose it could be used as an effect, but so far what I've heard
does appear to be a serious attempt at true immersion.



OK, but that is the effect I claim you can easily get with V,V & H....

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...
Did you not see this link to a pic of my own 'Binge' CD?

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Binge.JPG

Note the title of Track 19....


Just had a look. Ernest Tomlinson/Slovak Radio Orchestra.
Good pedigree. I suppose you have no way of comparing
this with the version which R4 used?

I would be interested to hear the ASV recording conducted
by the composer (which they must have bought from somewhere
as Ronald Binge died in the early 70s, before ASV came into
existence.

There is also a version conducted by Sidney Torch (he of
Friday Night is Music Night fame) It would be interesting to
hear that also.

Iain

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
In fact, the sound, which made the Mantovani orchestra instantly
recognisable, and helped to make him the biggest selling artist
in the UK pre Beatles, was down to his arranger Ronald Binge
(the man who is best known for his composition "Elizabethan
Serenade")



Yep, but what put me onto him was the fabulous tune 'Sailing By' that
used to close R4 in the wee small hours, after the Shipping Forecast.
A truly magical experience hearing that late on a balmy summer's
night, I can tell you!.

Except that it's not by him. It's library music - the sort issued for
pro use where you don't buy the actual CD but just pay for the usage.
And played by session musicians. It may of course have been issued
commercially afterwards.




Dave. I have never had the chance to listen to the title you refer to,
but "Sailing By" is a well-known title by Ronald Binge, and according to
the link, it was used by R4 after the shipping forecast:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/help/faqs_4.shtml

You're absolutely correct - I hadn't realised the link between them and
had read it as it being a Mantovani recording.


It may well be that this started out as library music, although I cannot
find it in any of the catalogues I have. The recording copyright
is accredited to EMI.

I came across it while looking for some music for an episode of Rumpole,
so that dates it to the mid '80s. It was already being used by R4, but not
for long at that time.

"Sailing By" is also the title of Ronald Binge's biography by
Mike Carey. It's a most interesting book, and covers in some
detail the Binge/Mantovani relationship.

Right. Can't say I'll rush out and buy it. ;-)

--
*Income tax service - We‘ve got what it takes to take what you've got.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
And not dead yet it seems:

http://www.ambisonic.net/gformat.html

I haven't read much of that myself, but it appears there's still
interest in it and possibly something of a future for it?


Stereo you can sort of pop in the corner and forget about it.

Like many do - but not the way to get the best results.

An Ambisonics setup takes over the room - not good.

It would need designing in. But worth it if you care about such things.
Plenty now have speakers scattered around the place for surround, so not
really much different.

I have heard it, but I'm not sure where; probably at the BBC research
place down at Kingswood Warren. It was certainly the closest I have
ever heard to "being there".

It is impressive.

--
*If a parsley farmer is sued, can they garnish his wages?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
No, but you have reminded me of a very striking bit of music that preceded
transmissions very early in the morning on one station. It was not *unlike*
the music for What The Papers Say and went summat like:

Dadum dum di dum, da da di, da da di da dum....

???

Roll out the barrel by the Big Ben Banjo Band?

--
*I'm pretty sure that sex is better than logic, but I can't prove it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
The version of Sailing By that Radio 4 use is not available
commercially. ..."

from the description of the same BBC link...???

This may no longer be the case (or it was probably re-recorded)

To the best of my knowledge it's still the library version. It's near
impossible to produce a 'new' version that sounds exactly the same.

--
*Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your life *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
No, but you have reminded me of a very striking bit of music that
preceded
transmissions very early in the morning on one station. It was not
*unlike*
the music for What The Papers Say and went summat like:

Dadum dum di dum, da da di, da da di da dum....

???

Roll out the barrel by the Big Ben Banjo Band?


:-))
But wouldn't that be:
Dum dum, da dum dum, da da di da da di dum?

Iain

Obsolete my arse.... (troll)
 

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 16:14:49 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
And not dead yet it seems:

http://www.ambisonic.net/gformat.html

I haven't read much of that myself, but it appears there's still
interest in it and possibly something of a future for it?


Stereo you can sort of pop in the corner and forget about it.

Like many do - but not the way to get the best results.


Of course, nobody here would, would they?

An Ambisonics setup takes over the room - not good.

It would need designing in. But worth it if you care about such things.
Plenty now have speakers scattered around the place for surround, so not
really much different.


If there were really signs that ambi was taking off in any big way I
might be tempted. But I'm not going that far for what looks like
strictly a niche right now.

I have heard it, but I'm not sure where; probably at the BBC research
place down at Kingswood Warren. It was certainly the closest I have
ever heard to "being there".

It is impressive.

Yup.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com