Dear me! What a fright!

My girlfriend was round last Tuesday and I got rather tipsy. Rather too tipsy!
I can't remember how it happened but I fell over near the TV and speakers and
ended up knocking one of my beloved Dynaudio 52SEs off its stand. It landed
on the floor. I think it hit the TV on the way down. OMFG!!! I can't afford
to replace those speakers! I was so lucky. It didn't land face down and the
drivers sustained no damage at all. One of the terminals snapped off, but the
speaker itself is fine. I spent some of Friday evening trying to solder the
snapped-off terminal back on, but it didn't really work, because the solder
sticking out prevented it from being able to screw back down. So I ended up
soldering the speaker cable directly to what ramains of the terminal. No
problem, it's still ok and sounding divine! Thank goodness I wasn't using the
turntable that night! The Freeview "box" is ****ed though. Dunno why, cos it
didn't get hit, but it's DEAD. 30 quid: A small price to pay, and I don't mind
a bit.

Clumsy Martin! Hey, if that Dynaudio had hit me on the head on the way down,
it could have been very bad for my health. They're small, but heavy, and have
very sharp, pointy corners.

I've been giving the (almost dead, and very temperamental) valve amp a go
again recently, and for the last 3 days, it's been well-behaved: No purple
fireworks inside the output valves, no 1Hz high-amplitude osciallation on
the speakers. It's been good. I likened it yesterday, when describing it
to a friend, to an ex-girlfriend of mine. When she was nice, she was
beautiful, stunning, and sweet, but most of the time, she was a selfish
spiteful, high-maintenance bitch.

So there has been good-sounding music here recently, despite everything. I am
toying with the idea of moving the speaker stands forward 6 inches and moving
them a little closer together, because I fear the back wall is ruining the
imaging. But it's no small amount of effort, because the sweet spot for
treble is less than 1cm wide. Trying to get them pointing exactly the same
way (but in mirror image) is a royal pain.

I don't care whether the valve amp is or is not more accurate than my Cyrus 2;
I just prefer the sound. Maybe it's second harmonic distortion; maybe it has
a treble lift; I don't care. But the treble of the valve amp is just _so_
much better than that of the Cyrus, which sounds dull and flat in comparison.

Good listening, peeps!


Martin
--
M.A.Poyser Tel.: 07967 110890
Manchester, U.K. http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=fleetie

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 19:00:13 -0000, "Fleetie"
wrote:

Dear me! What a fright!

My girlfriend was round last Tuesday and I got rather tipsy. Rather too tipsy!
I can't remember how it happened but I fell over near the TV and speakers and
ended up knocking one of my beloved Dynaudio 52SEs off its stand. It landed
on the floor. I think it hit the TV on the way down. OMFG!!! I can't afford
to replace those speakers! I was so lucky. It didn't land face down and the
drivers sustained no damage at all. One of the terminals snapped off, but the
speaker itself is fine. I spent some of Friday evening trying to solder the
snapped-off terminal back on, but it didn't really work, because the solder
sticking out prevented it from being able to screw back down. So I ended up
soldering the speaker cable directly to what ramains of the terminal. No
problem, it's still ok and sounding divine! Thank goodness I wasn't using the
turntable that night! The Freeview "box" is ****ed though. Dunno why, cos it
didn't get hit, but it's DEAD. 30 quid: A small price to pay, and I don't mind
a bit.

Clumsy Martin! Hey, if that Dynaudio had hit me on the head on the way down,
it could have been very bad for my health. They're small, but heavy, and have
very sharp, pointy corners.

I've been giving the (almost dead, and very temperamental) valve amp a go
again recently, and for the last 3 days, it's been well-behaved: No purple
fireworks inside the output valves, no 1Hz high-amplitude osciallation on
the speakers. It's been good. I likened it yesterday, when describing it
to a friend, to an ex-girlfriend of mine. When she was nice, she was
beautiful, stunning, and sweet, but most of the time, she was a selfish
spiteful, high-maintenance bitch.

So there has been good-sounding music here recently, despite everything. I am
toying with the idea of moving the speaker stands forward 6 inches and moving
them a little closer together, because I fear the back wall is ruining the
imaging. But it's no small amount of effort, because the sweet spot for
treble is less than 1cm wide. Trying to get them pointing exactly the same
way (but in mirror image) is a royal pain.

I don't care whether the valve amp is or is not more accurate than my Cyrus 2;
I just prefer the sound. Maybe it's second harmonic distortion; maybe it has
a treble lift; I don't care. But the treble of the valve amp is just _so_
much better than that of the Cyrus, which sounds dull and flat in comparison.

Good listening, peeps!


Martin

A 1cm sweet spot - ye gods! Which ear do you listen through? Or do
you take it in turns, five minutes for right, five minutes for left...
If that is true, those speakers are crap and need binning; you should
have three or four feet with no problem at all.

Moving the speakers out might help, of course. Get the ex-girlfriend
round to help move them.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

"Don Pearce" wrote
A 1cm sweet spot - ye gods! Which ear do you listen through? Or do
you take it in turns, five minutes for right, five minutes for left...
If that is true, those speakers are crap and need binning; you should
have three or four feet with no problem at all.

My speakers aren't the only ones. Treble beams: Fact of life.

The speakers are not crap at all, and I think a few people here would
agree with me. By "sweet spot" I mean the point where treble is at its
maximum, and I really really like my treble. It's no reflection on
speakers really; it's a function of the diameter of the tweeter, which
is slightly less than an inch. Pretty average.

Maybe you use a different definition of "sweet spot" to me. Normally,
you seem to talk sense, but here, IMO, you're talking out of your hat.

I do suspect we mean different things. But the response changes VASTLY
with a movement of 1cm. I dunno what speakers you use, but if they
use conventional tweeters, I'm sure if you measured yours, you'd find
the same.

That said, I'm a treble FIEND. My speakers sound ok, even good,
off-axis, but when they're _perfectly_ on-axis and lined up with my
lug-holes, there's SUCH a difference. It sounds divine.


Martin
--
M.A.Poyser Tel.: 07967 110890
Manchester, U.K. http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=fleetie

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 19:27:56 -0000, "Fleetie"
wrote:

"Don Pearce" wrote
A 1cm sweet spot - ye gods! Which ear do you listen through? Or do
you take it in turns, five minutes for right, five minutes for left...
If that is true, those speakers are crap and need binning; you should
have three or four feet with no problem at all.

My speakers aren't the only ones. Treble beams: Fact of life.

The speakers are not crap at all, and I think a few people here would
agree with me. By "sweet spot" I mean the point where treble is at its
maximum, and I really really like my treble. It's no reflection on
speakers really; it's a function of the diameter of the tweeter, which
is slightly less than an inch. Pretty average.

Maybe you use a different definition of "sweet spot" to me. Normally,
you seem to talk sense, but here, IMO, you're talking out of your hat.

I do suspect we mean different things. But the response changes VASTLY
with a movement of 1cm. I dunno what speakers you use, but if they
use conventional tweeters, I'm sure if you measured yours, you'd find
the same.

That said, I'm a treble FIEND. My speakers sound ok, even good,
off-axis, but when they're _perfectly_ on-axis and lined up with my
lug-holes, there's SUCH a difference. It sounds divine.


Martin

So turn up the treble, and enjoy the much larger region off-axis.
Having to sit still enough to keep an ear (still don't know which one)
in perfect alignment with a tweeter axis is actually ridiculous beyond
words. (And you reckon *I'm* talking out of my hat?)

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

So turn up the treble, and enjoy the much larger region off-axis.
Having to sit still enough to keep an ear (still don't know which one)
in perfect alignment with a tweeter axis is actually ridiculous beyond
words. (And you reckon *I'm* talking out of my hat?)

I don't have a treble control.

Yes, it is inconvenient, but usually when I listen, I'm just chilling
with my friends. Only seldom do I listen carefully and critically.

Have you any qualifications in acoustics?

Do you understand the relationship between tweeter diameter and
directionality?

You cannae change the laws of physics.

I repeat: If you're using speakers with conventional tweeters, then
yours will be the same. Doesn't matter what make they are, how much
they cost (or how cheap they are). It's physics.

Trying to tell me that my speakers are crap is very easy to do, but hard
to back up with facts. Are the laws of physics and mathematics different
in your world? My degree, by the way, is basically in the mathematics and
physics of sound wave propagation. Not that that affects how speakers
behave, of course. Nature doesn't care what I think, or what you think.
It just _is_ as it is.


Martin
--
M.A.Poyser Tel.: 07967 110890
Manchester, U.K. http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=fleetie

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 19:50:00 -0000, "Fleetie"
wrote:

So turn up the treble, and enjoy the much larger region off-axis.
Having to sit still enough to keep an ear (still don't know which one)
in perfect alignment with a tweeter axis is actually ridiculous beyond
words. (And you reckon *I'm* talking out of my hat?)

I don't have a treble control.

Yes, it is inconvenient, but usually when I listen, I'm just chilling
with my friends. Only seldom do I listen carefully and critically.

Have you any qualifications in acoustics?

Do you understand the relationship between tweeter diameter and
directionality?


Absolutely - I could plot the directionality of any diameter you like
using vector sums in finite element analysis.

You cannae change the laws of physics.

Nope, nor can you.

I repeat: If you're using speakers with conventional tweeters, then
yours will be the same. Doesn't matter what make they are, how much
they cost (or how cheap they are). It's physics.


Quite so. But what kind of a dropoff at 20kHz - in dB - do you believe
you can hear? That will determine the diameter of the sweet spot.

Trying to tell me that my speakers are crap is very easy to do, but hard
to back up with facts. Are the laws of physics and mathematics different
in your world? My degree, by the way, is basically in the mathematics and
physics of sound wave propagation. Not that that affects how speakers
behave, of course. Nature doesn't care what I think, or what you think.
It just _is_ as it is.


No, I wasn't telling you your speakers are crap. I was presenting you
with an IF...THEN. I am telling you that your IF condition is
questionable.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

You may want to try my nutty "I don't believe it" speaker tweak, which
consists of earthing the speaker frames. Easy enough to do - just take
some wires and connect the frames of the speaker units to earth. You'd
expect no difference, as I did, but I do think the sound is more
focussed. I'd be interested if it works for anybody else.

You don't have to tell me this makes no difference - I expected it to
do nothing, myself. But try it before commenting on it - it's easily
done. Andy

Bob Latham wrote:

Linkwitz Riley published a paper in Wireless World with dispersion
diagrams for different shaped boxes. I *think* he was working for KEF at
the time.

What, both of him?

--
Eiron.

"Eiron" wrote in message
...
Bob Latham wrote:

Linkwitz Riley published a paper in Wireless World with dispersion
diagrams for different shaped boxes. I *think* he was working for KEF at
the time.

What, both of him?


:-)

Cruel.....

"Siegfried Linkwitz and Russ Riley, then two Hewlett-Packard R&D engineers,
wrote the aforementioned paper describing a better mousetrap in crossover
design."

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 19:50:00 -0000, "Fleetie"
wrote:

So turn up the treble, and enjoy the much larger region off-axis.
Having to sit still enough to keep an ear (still don't know which one)
in perfect alignment with a tweeter axis is actually ridiculous beyond
words. (And you reckon *I'm* talking out of my hat?)

I don't have a treble control.

Yes, it is inconvenient, but usually when I listen, I'm just chilling
with my friends. Only seldom do I listen carefully and critically.

Have you any qualifications in acoustics?

Do you understand the relationship between tweeter diameter and
directionality?

You cannae change the laws of physics.

I repeat: If you're using speakers with conventional tweeters, then
yours will be the same. Doesn't matter what make they are, how much
they cost (or how cheap they are). It's physics.

Trying to tell me that my speakers are crap is very easy to do, but hard
to back up with facts. Are the laws of physics and mathematics different
in your world? My degree, by the way, is basically in the mathematics and
physics of sound wave propagation. Not that that affects how speakers
behave, of course. Nature doesn't care what I think, or what you think.
It just _is_ as it is.


Martin

OK - done some maths for you. I've analysed a 25mm domed tweeter, a
50mm domed tweeter and a 50mm flat tweeter. The third was surprising.

http://81.174.169.10/odds/tweeter.htm

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com