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What do you do with a *lively* room?
You use it! I've been meaning to throw a pair of OB speakers together for a while (had the ideal drivers kicking about for ages - Visaton B200s) and never got round to it, but I was sent a pic of some nice OBs the other day and they got me thinking..... They were stood out in the middle of a room which I thought wouldn't have been doing them any favours and it caused me to wonder what slotting a pair into the corners of my room and *using* the 'liveliness' to boost the bass would work like? Add to that I've been falling over a bloody great, *heavy* piece of board (white plastic faced 18mm MDF) in my garage for a while, so I duly threw a pair together - it took about 3.5 hours and the only scrap left over from a piece of board 54 x 48 inches was two 48 inch lengths about 1 inch wide and the circles from the cutouts for the drivers!! So in true Show N Tell tradition*, here's the story: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/obspeakers1.JPG http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/obspeakers2.JPG Miking them thus: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/obspeakers3.JPG I grabbed a couple of extracts from the 'Road To Hell' CD: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...0(Extract).mp3 http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Daytona.mp3 And some shorter samples from a fairly weedy 'test CD' (it's French - what do you expect?) which, I think, demonstrate superb clarity - headphones will give you a better idea but ignore the 'heartbeat' which seems to have crept back into the equation..... http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Sample%2001.mp3 http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Sample%2002.mp3 http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Sample%2003.mp3 http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Sample%2004.mp3 http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Sample%2005.mp3 http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Sample%2006.mp3 http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Sample%2007.mp3 http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Sample%2008.mp3 Anyway, I was very pleasantly surprised indeed - see what you think! (The milkman freaked out and dropped his yoghourt...!! ;-) *It's what I do, I don't have a past lifetime's experience of 'audio' - mine is *here and now*!! |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
Keith G wrote:
You use it! I've been meaning to throw a pair of OB speakers together for a while (had the ideal drivers kicking about for ages - Visaton B200s) and never got round to it, but I was sent a pic of some nice OBs the other day and they got me thinking..... They were stood out in the middle of a room which I thought wouldn't have been doing them any favours and it caused me to wonder what slotting a pair into the corners of my room and *using* the 'liveliness' to boost the bass would work like? Add to that I've been falling over a bloody great, *heavy* piece of board (white plastic faced 18mm MDF) in my garage for a while, so I duly threw a pair together - it took about 3.5 hours and the only scrap left over from a piece of board 54 x 48 inches was two 48 inch lengths about 1 inch wide and the circles from the cutouts for the drivers!! So in true Show N Tell tradition*, here's the story: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/obspeakers1.JPG http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/obspeakers2.JPG Miking them thus: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/obspeakers3.JPG I grabbed a couple of extracts from the 'Road To Hell' CD: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...0(Extract).mp3 http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Daytona.mp3 And some shorter samples from a fairly weedy 'test CD' (it's French - what do you expect?) which, I think, demonstrate superb clarity - headphones will give you a better idea but ignore the 'heartbeat' which seems to have crept back into the equation..... http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Sample%2001.mp3 http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Sample%2002.mp3 http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Sample%2003.mp3 http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Sample%2004.mp3 http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Sample%2005.mp3 http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Sample%2006.mp3 http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Sample%2007.mp3 http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Sample%2008.mp3 Anyway, I was very pleasantly surprised indeed - see what you think! (The milkman freaked out and dropped his yoghourt...!! ;-) *It's what I do, I don't have a past lifetime's experience of 'audio' - mine is *here and now*!! Keith, As one who *does* have a lifetime's experience of audio (and I'm only now realising how little I know)there's nothing new under the (audio) sun. Corner enclosures were very popular in the late '50s and '60s in part for the reasons you state: i.e. using the room corners to boost the bass, but also to keep them out of the way of furnishings. It was hard enough for people to find room for one large 'speaker, but when stereo came along, finding room for two was difficult. The WAF was as alive then as now. However, putting 'speakers in the corners won't make much difference in a live room over putting them elsewhere. The problem with a live room is reflections, which affect the mid and treble. Bass sees hard walls whatever they are covered with unless you take special steps to create bass traps. However, using single drive units, the treble will beam more than using separate dome tweeters, and angling them as you have will at least help keep the treble away from the walls. I have just received a copy of the 1959 Audio Year Book and a copy of the July 1959 American "High Fidelity" magazine and they are full of weird and wonderful enclosures trying to make stereo acceptable domestically. In spite of my long teeth, what's an OB 'speaker other than Outside Broadcast? S. |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
"Serge Auckland" wrote in message ... Keith G wrote: Keith, As one who *does* have a lifetime's experience of audio (and I'm only now realising how little I know)there's nothing new under the (audio) sun. Corner enclosures were very popular in the late '50s and '60s in part for the reasons you state: i.e. using the room corners to boost the bass, but also to keep them out of the way of furnishings. It was hard enough for people to find room for one large 'speaker, but when stereo came along, finding room for two was difficult. The WAF was as alive then as now. Serge, no-one is more aware that there's 'nothing new under the (audio) sun' than me - my amps date back to the 20s and 30s (design) and my speakers feature drivers that have been in *continuous production* for the last 50 years in a design probably just as old!! However, putting 'speakers in the corners won't make much difference in a live room over putting them elsewhere. The problem with a live room is reflections, which affect the mid and treble. Bass sees hard walls whatever they are covered with unless you take special steps to create bass traps. However, using single drive units, the treble will beam more than using separate dome tweeters, and angling them as you have will at least help keep the treble away from the walls. Yes and the angled sides allow the air to move freely - I'm back to thrumming doorframes here...!! I have just received a copy of the 1959 Audio Year Book and a copy of the July 1959 American "High Fidelity" magazine and they are full of weird and wonderful enclosures trying to make stereo acceptable domestically. :-) In spite of my long teeth, what's an OB 'speaker other than Outside Broadcast? Open Baffle - see the view down the back: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/openbaffle.JPG Also this, just to prove I can still do *handheld* at 1/8 of a second!! http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/obspeakers4.JPG :-) Recording some much more impressive stuff atm and expecting P the T and possibly Ray The Jay round anytime now for a listen. (As usual!! :-) (Quite simply the *clearest* sound so far, by miles.....!! :-) |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
....................rent the room out for amateur dramatics.
|
What do you do with a *lively* room?
In article , Keith G
writes "Serge Auckland" wrote in message ... Keith G wrote: Keith, As one who *does* have a lifetime's experience of audio (and I'm only now realising how little I know)there's nothing new under the (audio) sun. Corner enclosures were very popular in the late '50s and '60s in part for the reasons you state: i.e. using the room corners to boost the bass, but also to keep them out of the way of furnishings. It was hard enough for people to find room for one large 'speaker, but when stereo came along, finding room for two was difficult. The WAF was as alive then as now. Serge, no-one is more aware that there's 'nothing new under the (audio) sun' than me - my amps date back to the 20s and 30s (design) and my speakers feature drivers that have been in *continuous production* for the last 50 years in a design probably just as old!! However, putting 'speakers in the corners won't make much difference in a live room over putting them elsewhere. The problem with a live room is reflections, which affect the mid and treble. Bass sees hard walls whatever they are covered with unless you take special steps to create bass traps. However, using single drive units, the treble will beam more than using separate dome tweeters, and angling them as you have will at least help keep the treble away from the walls. Yes and the angled sides allow the air to move freely - I'm back to thrumming doorframes here...!! I have just received a copy of the 1959 Audio Year Book and a copy of the July 1959 American "High Fidelity" magazine and they are full of weird and wonderful enclosures trying to make stereo acceptable domestically. :-) In spite of my long teeth, what's an OB 'speaker other than Outside Broadcast? Open Baffle - see the view down the back: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/openbaffle.JPG Also this, just to prove I can still do *handheld* at 1/8 of a second!! http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/obspeakers4.JPG :-) Please sir!, what Mic amps RU using?..... Recording some much more impressive stuff atm and expecting P the T and possibly Ray The Jay round anytime now for a listen. (As usual!! :-) (Quite simply the *clearest* sound so far, by miles.....!! :-) Keithyphone label anyone?.. -- Tony Sayer |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
In article ,
Keith G wrote: They were stood out in the middle of a room which I thought wouldn't have been doing them any favours and it caused me to wonder what slotting a pair into the corners of my room and *using* the 'liveliness' to boost the bass would work like? If working in stereo surely the position of the speakers to give the best sound stage is *the* important bit, and siting them in room corners is unlikely to do this? However the 'liveliness' of a room really only effects mid and high frequencies - bass is more effected by things like the type of floor. In that a suspended type can absorb a deal of the bass energy. -- *One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
In article ,
Serge Auckland wrote: In spite of my long teeth, what's an OB 'speaker other than Outside Broadcast? Must be an LS3/**** ;-) -- *How's my driving? Call 999* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
"tony sayer" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G writes "Serge Auckland" wrote in message .. . Keith G wrote: Keith, As one who *does* have a lifetime's experience of audio (and I'm only now realising how little I know)there's nothing new under the (audio) sun. Corner enclosures were very popular in the late '50s and '60s in part for the reasons you state: i.e. using the room corners to boost the bass, but also to keep them out of the way of furnishings. It was hard enough for people to find room for one large 'speaker, but when stereo came along, finding room for two was difficult. The WAF was as alive then as now. Serge, no-one is more aware that there's 'nothing new under the (audio) sun' than me - my amps date back to the 20s and 30s (design) and my speakers feature drivers that have been in *continuous production* for the last 50 years in a design probably just as old!! However, putting 'speakers in the corners won't make much difference in a live room over putting them elsewhere. The problem with a live room is reflections, which affect the mid and treble. Bass sees hard walls whatever they are covered with unless you take special steps to create bass traps. However, using single drive units, the treble will beam more than using separate dome tweeters, and angling them as you have will at least help keep the treble away from the walls. Yes and the angled sides allow the air to move freely - I'm back to thrumming doorframes here...!! I have just received a copy of the 1959 Audio Year Book and a copy of the July 1959 American "High Fidelity" magazine and they are full of weird and wonderful enclosures trying to make stereo acceptable domestically. :-) In spite of my long teeth, what's an OB 'speaker other than Outside Broadcast? Open Baffle - see the view down the back: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/openbaffle.JPG Also this, just to prove I can still do *handheld* at 1/8 of a second!! http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/obspeakers4.JPG :-) Please sir!, what Mic amps RU using?..... http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb0.../arttubemp.htm If you ask because there's a channel imbalance in favour of the left channel, that's down to me (my fault for not taking more care to set the levels properly!) - I set the levels by eye and let the recording run for the duration of the CD (one take only). Unfortunately, SoundForge doesn't let you see the waveform 'til you stop recording - as that was about an hour's worth of *real time*, I wasn't about to do it over!! ;-) |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G wrote: They were stood out in the middle of a room which I thought wouldn't have been doing them any favours and it caused me to wonder what slotting a pair into the corners of my room and *using* the 'liveliness' to boost the bass would work like? If working in stereo surely the position of the speakers to give the best sound stage is *the* important bit, and siting them in room corners is unlikely to do this? My room is small - summat has to go in the corners... However the 'liveliness' of a room really only effects mid and high frequencies - bass is more effected by things like the type of floor. In that a suspended type can absorb a deal of the bass energy. -- *One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. I wouldn't disagree with any of that, but would say my suspicions do seem to have been borne out by the fact that the OB speakers sounded kinda OK (but not stunning) when I plonked them down in front of the other ones, but then *did* sound stunning when I shunted them into the corners. (Not my say-so, but I hardly dare mention who did say.... ;-) The *clarity* is the best yet, but I haven't actually had time to listen to them other than on the move/while doing other stuff. Depth, even when standing over them, is quite amazing. I've posted the samples, it either shows in them or it doesn't - I've since made better-recorded samples, but only of stuff I have probably posted before... |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
Keith G wrote:
"Serge Auckland" wrote in message ... Keith G wrote: Keith, As one who *does* have a lifetime's experience of audio (and I'm only now realising how little I know)there's nothing new under the (audio) sun. Corner enclosures were very popular in the late '50s and '60s in part for the reasons you state: i.e. using the room corners to boost the bass, but also to keep them out of the way of furnishings. It was hard enough for people to find room for one large 'speaker, but when stereo came along, finding room for two was difficult. The WAF was as alive then as now. Serge, no-one is more aware that there's 'nothing new under the (audio) sun' than me - my amps date back to the 20s and 30s (design) and my speakers feature drivers that have been in *continuous production* for the last 50 years in a design probably just as old!! However, putting 'speakers in the corners won't make much difference in a live room over putting them elsewhere. The problem with a live room is reflections, which affect the mid and treble. Bass sees hard walls whatever they are covered with unless you take special steps to create bass traps. However, using single drive units, the treble will beam more than using separate dome tweeters, and angling them as you have will at least help keep the treble away from the walls. Yes and the angled sides allow the air to move freely - I'm back to thrumming doorframes here...!! I have just received a copy of the 1959 Audio Year Book and a copy of the July 1959 American "High Fidelity" magazine and they are full of weird and wonderful enclosures trying to make stereo acceptable domestically. :-) In spite of my long teeth, what's an OB 'speaker other than Outside Broadcast? Open Baffle - see the view down the back: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/openbaffle.JPG Also this, just to prove I can still do *handheld* at 1/8 of a second!! http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/obspeakers4.JPG :-) Thanks, I'd forgotten about open baffles. However, what you have isn't really an OB if you put them in the corner. If it fits tightly in the corner it will approximate to a sealed box, sometimes referred to as an Infinite Baffle, but as the fit isn't likely to be airtight, you will have some gaps, so it will work to some extent something like a Bass-reflex cabinet, but with very indeterminate performance. An OB needs to be clear of the wall, or sealed to the wall in which case it is an IB or, if vented, then a bass-reflex. Wharfedale used to do a sand-filled open baffle with an upward firing tweeter, designed for free-field siting. You really should try a corner horn or Transmission Line someday. S. |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
"Serge Auckland" wrote in message ... Keith G wrote: "Serge Auckland" wrote in message ... Keith G wrote: Keith, As one who *does* have a lifetime's experience of audio (and I'm only now realising how little I know)there's nothing new under the (audio) sun. Corner enclosures were very popular in the late '50s and '60s in part for the reasons you state: i.e. using the room corners to boost the bass, but also to keep them out of the way of furnishings. It was hard enough for people to find room for one large 'speaker, but when stereo came along, finding room for two was difficult. The WAF was as alive then as now. Serge, no-one is more aware that there's 'nothing new under the (audio) sun' than me - my amps date back to the 20s and 30s (design) and my speakers feature drivers that have been in *continuous production* for the last 50 years in a design probably just as old!! However, putting 'speakers in the corners won't make much difference in a live room over putting them elsewhere. The problem with a live room is reflections, which affect the mid and treble. Bass sees hard walls whatever they are covered with unless you take special steps to create bass traps. However, using single drive units, the treble will beam more than using separate dome tweeters, and angling them as you have will at least help keep the treble away from the walls. Yes and the angled sides allow the air to move freely - I'm back to thrumming doorframes here...!! I have just received a copy of the 1959 Audio Year Book and a copy of the July 1959 American "High Fidelity" magazine and they are full of weird and wonderful enclosures trying to make stereo acceptable domestically. :-) In spite of my long teeth, what's an OB 'speaker other than Outside Broadcast? Open Baffle - see the view down the back: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/openbaffle.JPG Also this, just to prove I can still do *handheld* at 1/8 of a second!! http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/obspeakers4.JPG :-) Thanks, I'd forgotten about open baffles. However, what you have isn't really an OB if you put them in the corner. If it fits tightly in the corner it will approximate to a sealed box, sometimes referred to as an Infinite Baffle, but as the fit isn't likely to be airtight, you will have some gaps, so it will work to some extent something like a Bass-reflex cabinet, but with very indeterminate performance. An OB needs to be clear of the wall, or sealed to the wall in which case it is an IB or, if vented, then a bass-reflex. Yep, in other words I'm *using* the room, like I said originally but it's no way *sealed* - you could stand behind it!! There's no doubt it's very effective what ever you might want to call it!! I don't say it's a permanent arrangement - it has to beat the Fidelios to stay, for starters!! Wharfedale used to do a sand-filled open baffle with an upward firing tweeter, designed for free-field siting. Yes, when my friend P the T called earlier he started waffling about Briggs and early Wharfedales! You really should try a corner horn or Transmission Line someday. It's in there with all the other little 'maybe projects'! ;-) Now, have a go at this one - one of the *inimitable* Laurie Anderson's tracks: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/laurieanderson.mp3 Remember it's miked (silly cheap CAD GXL2400 large condensers at 49 quid a pop from UKProAudio on eBay*) - there's a nice lot going on in there and I think the single driver acquits itself rather well...!!?? * What? You thought they were Neumann U87s...?? :-) |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
In article ,
Keith G wrote: Yep, in other words I'm *using* the room, like I said originally but it's no way *sealed* - you could stand behind it!! There's no doubt it's very effective what ever you might want to call it!! I don't say it's a permanent arrangement - it has to beat the Fidelios to stay, for starters!! As you move that type of speaker into a corner it will load the bass somewhat - but not evenly. The frequency response will look like a dogs hind leg... -- *Heart attacks... God's revenge for eating his animal friends Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
Keith G wrote: Serge, no-one is more aware that there's 'nothing new under the (audio) sun' than me - my amps date back to the 20s and 30s (design) and my speakers feature drivers that have been in *continuous production* for the last 50 years in a design probably just as old!! From what I've heard, they sound like it too ! Graham |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
In article ,
Eeyore wrote: Serge, no-one is more aware that there's 'nothing new under the (audio) sun' than me - my amps date back to the 20s and 30s (design) and my speakers feature drivers that have been in *continuous production* for the last 50 years in a design probably just as old!! From what I've heard, they sound like it too ! I can't remember the last single driver pro monitoring speaker, but the BEEB had gone to a twin unit in the AM only days... -- *I must always remember that I'm unique, just like everyone else. * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Eeyore wrote: Serge, no-one is more aware that there's 'nothing new under the (audio) sun' than me - my amps date back to the 20s and 30s (design) and my speakers feature drivers that have been in *continuous production* for the last 50 years in a design probably just as old!! From what I've heard, they sound like it too ! I can't remember the last single driver pro monitoring speaker, but the BEEB had gone to a twin unit in the AM only days... -- *I must always remember that I'm unique, just like everyone else. * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. I suspect (almost certain) that if I *bustled* I could have a pair of LS3/5As here by noon today... |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G wrote: Yep, in other words I'm *using* the room, like I said originally but it's no way *sealed* - you could stand behind it!! There's no doubt it's very effective what ever you might want to call it!! I don't say it's a permanent arrangement - it has to beat the Fidelios to stay, for starters!! As you move that type of speaker into a corner it will load the bass somewhat - but not evenly. The frequency response will look like a dogs hind leg... -- *Heart attacks... God's revenge for eating his animal friends Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. What the FR *might* look like is not my main concern - we're into the realms of 'hit & miss' audio here. What is far more important is how they sound, the bass has indeed been reinforced appreciably but whether I can *tune* into the sound overall is another question - I still have not had any opportunity for proper listening. IOW, the jury's not even been selected yet..... |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
In article ,
Keith G wrote: As you move that type of speaker into a corner it will load the bass somewhat - but not evenly. The frequency response will look like a dogs hind leg... What the FR *might* look like is not my main concern - we're into the realms of 'hit & miss' audio here. Heh heh. But if it *looks* like a dogs hind leg it will sound like it too. What is far more important is how they sound, the bass has indeed been reinforced appreciably but whether I can *tune* into the sound overall is another question - I still have not had any opportunity for proper listening. Perhaps you're after that radigram 'one note bass' sound? It's what often happens with open back enclosures. ;-) IOW, the jury's not even been selected yet..... Make sure it's twelve men good and true. -- *See no evil, Hear no evil, Date no evil. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
In article ,
Keith G wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Eeyore wrote: Serge, no-one is more aware that there's 'nothing new under the (audio) sun' than me - my amps date back to the 20s and 30s (design) and my speakers feature drivers that have been in *continuous production* for the last 50 years in a design probably just as old!! From what I've heard, they sound like it too ! I can't remember the last single driver pro monitoring speaker, but the BEEB had gone to a twin unit in the AM only days... I suspect (almost certain) that if I *bustled* I could have a pair of LS3/5As here by noon today... With a decent sub properly 'crossed over' they take some beating in a poor room - they are one of the least position influenced designs. Assuming you can find a pair still within spec. They aren't that long lived. -- *Does fuzzy logic tickle? * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
Keith G wrote:
Miking them thus: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/obspeakers3.JPG Could I suggest Keith that if you want to demonstrate how the speakers actually sound you should use a coincident pair at the listening position. Close miking is for guitar amps. Roy. |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G wrote: As you move that type of speaker into a corner it will load the bass somewhat - but not evenly. The frequency response will look like a dogs hind leg... What the FR *might* look like is not my main concern - we're into the realms of 'hit & miss' audio here. Heh heh. But if it *looks* like a dogs hind leg it will sound like it too. What is far more important is how they sound, the bass has indeed been reinforced appreciably but whether I can *tune* into the sound overall is another question - I still have not had any opportunity for proper listening. Perhaps you're after that radigram 'one note bass' sound? It's what often happens with open back enclosures. ;-) IOW, the jury's not even been selected yet..... Make sure it's twelve men good and true. -- *See no evil, Hear no evil, Date no evil. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. I have only recorded two CDs from the speakers and so don't have too much to choose from, but these two clips are enough to tell me the bass isn't the least bit 'one-note': http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Sample%2004.mp3 http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Sample%2005.mp3 Or that there's any shortage of nice 'top end': http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Sample%2008.mp3 Or clarity and detail...??? What am I missing? - The more I listen to these clips, the more I'm liking the sound... |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Eeyore wrote: Serge, no-one is more aware that there's 'nothing new under the (audio) sun' than me - my amps date back to the 20s and 30s (design) and my speakers feature drivers that have been in *continuous production* for the last 50 years in a design probably just as old!! From what I've heard, they sound like it too ! I can't remember the last single driver pro monitoring speaker, but the BEEB had gone to a twin unit in the AM only days... I suspect (almost certain) that if I *bustled* I could have a pair of LS3/5As here by noon today... With a decent sub properly 'crossed over' they take some beating in a poor room - they are one of the least position influenced designs. Assuming you can find a pair still within spec. They aren't that long lived. -- *Does fuzzy logic tickle? * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. I suspect the Ruark Sabres and most Dynaudio Contour models would give them a good run for their money, but it's interesting that is seems perfectly acceptable that all these bookshelf (and many/most commercial floorstanders) need a sub to produce the 'bottom octave' but not so acceptable in the case of 'FR' single driver speakers...??? Funny that.... |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
"Roy" x@y wrote in message ... Keith G wrote: Miking them thus: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/obspeakers3.JPG Could I suggest Keith that if you want to demonstrate how the speakers actually sound you should use a coincident pair at the listening position. Close miking is for guitar amps. Roy. Not at all - the mics are actually *closer* to the piano strings (under the lid) in all these recordings: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/reco...recordings.htm Recording the speakers from the listening position in my room is going to be 90% room, 10% speaker - the purpose of the clips was to blot out as much 'room' as I could, while still allowing enough 'backwave' to get to the mics.... (Last night Swim paused the telly to show me someone - 'Take That'?? - with a little mic actually clipped to the horn of his sax....) |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Eeyore wrote: Serge, no-one is more aware that there's 'nothing new under the (audio) sun' than me - my amps date back to the 20s and 30s (design) and my speakers feature drivers that have been in *continuous production* for the last 50 years in a design probably just as old!! From what I've heard, they sound like it too ! I can't remember the last single driver pro monitoring speaker, but the BEEB had gone to a twin unit in the AM only days... I suspect (almost certain) that if I *bustled* I could have a pair of LS3/5As here by noon today... With a decent sub properly 'crossed over' they take some beating in a poor room - they are one of the least position influenced designs. Assuming you can find a pair still within spec. They aren't that long lived. -- *Does fuzzy logic tickle? * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. Well, I didn't bustle but the LS3/5As will arrive here 2-2:30.... It will be interesting to see how they compare on a 'no sub either way' basis, so there'll be some more recording done this coming week.... |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
In article ,
Keith G wrote: Perhaps you're after that radigram 'one note bass' sound? It's what often happens with open back enclosures. ;-) IOW, the jury's not even been selected yet..... Make sure it's twelve men good and true. I have only recorded two CDs from the speakers and so don't have too much to choose from, but these two clips are enough to tell me the bass isn't the least bit 'one-note': http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Sample%2004.mp3 I dunno the recording, but there's a vast difference in the level of the tymps. http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Sample%2005.mp3 Or that there's any shortage of nice 'top end': http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Sample%2008.mp3 Sounds anything but 'clean' to me. And what's the 'heartbeat? Or clarity and detail...??? What am I missing? - The more I listen to these clips, the more I'm liking the sound... Each to their own. Were these clips off vinyl? -- *Real men don't waste their hormones growing hair Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
In article ,
Keith G wrote: With a decent sub properly 'crossed over' they take some beating in a poor room - they are one of the least position influenced designs. Assuming you can find a pair still within spec. They aren't that long lived. First, any chance of configuring your newsreader so it removes sigs? I suspect the Ruark Sabres and most Dynaudio Contour models would give them a good run for their money, but it's interesting that is seems perfectly acceptable that all these bookshelf (and many/most commercial floorstanders) need a sub to produce the 'bottom octave' but not so acceptable in the case of 'FR' single driver speakers...??? Only if it lives up to its title of 'full range'. But then you've still got the problem of the top end. -- *I took an IQ test and the results were negative. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
In article ,
Keith G wrote: (Last night Swim paused the telly to show me someone - 'Take That'?? - with a little mic actually clipped to the horn of his sax....) Common way of doing things if they're going to prance around, or you're struggling for seperation. Better than no sax at all which is the alternative in that sort of gig situation. But not ideal mic placement. You'll often see mics clipped to violins etc too. Even worse solution. -- *I wished the buck stopped here, as I could use a few* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
In article ,
Keith G wrote: Well, I didn't bustle but the LS3/5As will arrive here 2-2:30.... It will be interesting to see how they compare on a 'no sub either way' basis, so there'll be some more recording done this coming week.... I can't see you liking them. Apart from the known upper bass tip up they give a pretty uncoloured sound. -- *If horrific means to make horrible, does terrific mean to make terrible? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G wrote: Perhaps you're after that radigram 'one note bass' sound? It's what often happens with open back enclosures. ;-) IOW, the jury's not even been selected yet..... Make sure it's twelve men good and true. I have only recorded two CDs from the speakers and so don't have too much to choose from, but these two clips are enough to tell me the bass isn't the least bit 'one-note': http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Sample%2004.mp3 I dunno the recording, but there's a vast difference in the level of the tymps. http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Sample%2005.mp3 Or that there's any shortage of nice 'top end': http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Sample%2008.mp3 Sounds anything but 'clean' to me. And what's the 'heartbeat? It's a French 'test CD' and nothing to scream about and the amp (Chinese 300B) is a bit 'bronchial' atm at close quarters - not a problem in normal listening. Suggest summat fairly commonplace and I'll use it for the LS 3/5A comparisons or email me a .wav up to 10 Meg and I'll burn it to disk. I think/hope the 'heartbeat' (right channel only?) is in the ss/digital domain, I use the pre side of an ss amp for 'control' - I don't think it's on the recording/computer side, but will confirm that for myself later.... Or clarity and detail...??? What am I missing? - The more I listen to these clips, the more I'm liking the sound... Each to their own. Were these clips off vinyl? No, CDs played on a Pioneer DVDP... -- *Real men don't waste their hormones growing hair Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G wrote: With a decent sub properly 'crossed over' they take some beating in a poor room - they are one of the least position influenced designs. Assuming you can find a pair still within spec. They aren't that long lived. First, any chance of configuring your newsreader so it removes sigs? No way that I know of, or I would have done it years ago! I suspect the Ruark Sabres and most Dynaudio Contour models would give them a good run for their money, but it's interesting that is seems perfectly acceptable that all these bookshelf (and many/most commercial floorstanders) need a sub to produce the 'bottom octave' but not so acceptable in the case of 'FR' single driver speakers...??? Only if it lives up to its title of 'full range'. But then you've still got the problem of the top end. I've had any number of modern, reputed, 'ferrofluid' tweeters here and even Coles 'supertweeters - I do not think the top end of the FR drivers lacks anything of importance. The phrase 'fullrange' is supposed to refer to 'audible limits', not the theoretical limits of flat signal reproduction/amplification/response... -- *I took an IQ test and the results were negative. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G wrote: Well, I didn't bustle but the LS3/5As will arrive here 2-2:30.... It will be interesting to see how they compare on a 'no sub either way' basis, so there'll be some more recording done this coming week.... I can't see you liking them. Apart from the known upper bass tip up they give a pretty uncoloured sound. They are here, their owner (audiophile *weapons grade* EE) is comparing the OBs with the Fidelios as I type, on his own music. I have charged him to choose the *best* speaker as they stand. He is already 'impressed' with the OBs...?? (The milkman couldn't make it - he told me to FO, he's too busy..... ;-) I will report the verdict later. -- *If horrific means to make horrible, does terrific mean to make terrible? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
"Keith G" wrote in message ... "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G wrote: Well, I didn't bustle but the LS3/5As will arrive here 2-2:30.... It will be interesting to see how they compare on a 'no sub either way' basis, so there'll be some more recording done this coming week.... I can't see you liking them. Apart from the known upper bass tip up they give a pretty uncoloured sound. They are here, their owner (audiophile *weapons grade* EE) is comparing the OBs with the Fidelios as I type, on his own music. I have charged him to choose the *best* speaker as they stand. He is already 'impressed' with the OBs...?? (The milkman couldn't make it - he told me to FO, he's too busy..... ;-) I will report the verdict later. OK, here's the setup for a quick lark about: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/LSsetup.JPG And here's a 'one blends into the other' combi clip: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/combisound.mp3 Now, the question is which one sounds best - first or last? (Actually, it isn't, but there ya go... ;-) |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
"Keith G" wrote OK, here's the setup for a quick lark about: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/LSsetup.JPG And in walks Swim with a mint 1981 LP called 'Hear This' (Discourses CRD 1052) by Bob Auger about recording and microphone placement!! (Feck, you couldn't *script* it....!! :-)) |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 16:56:23 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote: "Keith G" wrote in message .. . "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G wrote: Well, I didn't bustle but the LS3/5As will arrive here 2-2:30.... It will be interesting to see how they compare on a 'no sub either way' basis, so there'll be some more recording done this coming week.... I can't see you liking them. Apart from the known upper bass tip up they give a pretty uncoloured sound. They are here, their owner (audiophile *weapons grade* EE) is comparing the OBs with the Fidelios as I type, on his own music. I have charged him to choose the *best* speaker as they stand. He is already 'impressed' with the OBs...?? (The milkman couldn't make it - he told me to FO, he's too busy..... ;-) I will report the verdict later. OK, here's the setup for a quick lark about: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/LSsetup.JPG And here's a 'one blends into the other' combi clip: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/combisound.mp3 Now, the question is which one sounds best - first or last? (Actually, it isn't, but there ya go... ;-) First one sounds better here, but two things make it tricky - first the recordings sound really different - mic/speaker relationship, that is, and secondly there is absolutely no bass (not even upper bass) in the tune, so your OBs would have no reason to be troubled by it. Anything a bit more broadband to hand - something orchestral, maybe? d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
"Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 16:56:23 -0000, "Keith G" wrote: "Keith G" wrote in message . .. "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G wrote: Well, I didn't bustle but the LS3/5As will arrive here 2-2:30.... It will be interesting to see how they compare on a 'no sub either way' basis, so there'll be some more recording done this coming week.... I can't see you liking them. Apart from the known upper bass tip up they give a pretty uncoloured sound. They are here, their owner (audiophile *weapons grade* EE) is comparing the OBs with the Fidelios as I type, on his own music. I have charged him to choose the *best* speaker as they stand. He is already 'impressed' with the OBs...?? (The milkman couldn't make it - he told me to FO, he's too busy..... ;-) I will report the verdict later. OK, here's the setup for a quick lark about: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/LSsetup.JPG And here's a 'one blends into the other' combi clip: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/combisound.mp3 Now, the question is which one sounds best - first or last? (Actually, it isn't, but there ya go... ;-) First one sounds better here, but two things make it tricky - first the recordings sound really different - mic/speaker relationship, that is, and secondly there is absolutely no bass (not even upper bass) in the tune, so your OBs would have no reason to be troubled by it. Anything a bit more broadband to hand - something orchestral, maybe? Don, I'm just out the door for a while now. I didn't pick that track or even *do* the recordings (other than set the mics up and start SF off) - it was the chap who owns the LS3/5s (and the CD)! I let him play (dead keen), but he was struggling with the different sound levels!! (Not so easy after all, eh? ;-) I'll do summat a bit more meaningful with better mic placement (it didn't move from what you see in the pic) and level matching in due course, I have the LS3/5s for a week now.... |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote: In article , Keith G wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Eeyore wrote: Serge, no-one is more aware that there's 'nothing new under the (audio) sun' than me - my amps date back to the 20s and 30s (design) and my speakers feature drivers that have been in *continuous production* for the last 50 years in a design probably just as old!! From what I've heard, they sound like it too ! I can't remember the last single driver pro monitoring speaker, but the BEEB had gone to a twin unit in the AM only days... I suspect (almost certain) that if I *bustled* I could have a pair of LS3/5As here by noon today... With a decent sub properly 'crossed over' they take some beating in a poor room - they are one of the least position influenced designs. Assuming you can find a pair still within spec. They aren't that long lived. You can get a modern equivalent ( almost identical in fact but slightly 'improved' AIUI ) from PMC. I've heard some PMCs and they're *stonkingly* good. Graham |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote: In article , Eeyore wrote: Serge, no-one is more aware that there's 'nothing new under the (audio) sun' than me - my amps date back to the 20s and 30s (design) and my speakers feature drivers that have been in *continuous production* for the last 50 years in a design probably just as old!! From what I've heard, they sound like it too ! I can't remember the last single driver pro monitoring speaker, but the BEEB had gone to a twin unit in the AM only days... If Keith's into 'point source' why not use a coax driver and a first over Butterworth crossover ( or a 4th order Linkwitz-Riley ) ? Graham |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
Keith G wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Eeyore wrote: Serge, no-one is more aware that there's 'nothing new under the (audio) sun' than me - my amps date back to the 20s and 30s (design) and my speakers feature drivers that have been in *continuous production* for the last 50 years in a design probably just as old!! From what I've heard, they sound like it too ! I can't remember the last single driver pro monitoring speaker, but the BEEB had gone to a twin unit in the AM only days... I suspect (almost certain) that if I *bustled* I could have a pair of LS3/5As here by noon today... With a decent sub properly 'crossed over' they take some beating in a poor room - they are one of the least position influenced designs. Assuming you can find a pair still within spec. They aren't that long lived. -- *Does fuzzy logic tickle? * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. I suspect the Ruark Sabres and most Dynaudio Contour models would give them a good run for their money, but it's interesting that is seems perfectly acceptable that all these bookshelf (and many/most commercial floorstanders) need a sub to produce the 'bottom octave' but not so acceptable in the case of 'FR' single driver speakers...??? Funny that.... Not really. It's the *HF* where single drivers really fall over. Graham |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
Keith G wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message Keith G wrote: With a decent sub properly 'crossed over' they take some beating in a poor room - they are one of the least position influenced designs. Assuming you can find a pair still within spec. They aren't that long lived. First, any chance of configuring your newsreader so it removes sigs? No way that I know of, or I would have done it years ago! I suspect the Ruark Sabres and most Dynaudio Contour models would give them a good run for their money, but it's interesting that is seems perfectly acceptable that all these bookshelf (and many/most commercial floorstanders) need a sub to produce the 'bottom octave' but not so acceptable in the case of 'FR' single driver speakers...??? Only if it lives up to its title of 'full range'. But then you've still got the problem of the top end. I've had any number of modern, reputed, 'ferrofluid' tweeters here and even Coles 'supertweeters - I do not think the top end of the FR drivers lacks anything of importance. AHEM ! Where do your ears' HF response finish ? The phrase 'fullrange' is supposed to refer to 'audible limits', not the theoretical limits of flat signal reproduction/amplification/response... No it doesn't. Try a leaf or ribbon tweeter btw. Graham |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
Don, I'm just out the door for a while now. I didn't pick that track or even
*do* the recordings (other than set the mics up and start SF off) - it was the chap who owns the LS3/5s (and the CD)! I let him play (dead keen), but he was struggling with the different sound levels!! (Not so easy after all, eh? ;-) I'll do summat a bit more meaningful with better mic placement (it didn't move from what you see in the pic) and level matching in due course, I have the LS3/5s for a week now.... Take it your driving them with a proper amplifier not one of these Chinese SETI thingies?... -- Tony Sayer |
What do you do with a *lively* room?
"tony sayer" wrote in message ... Don, I'm just out the door for a while now. I didn't pick that track or even *do* the recordings (other than set the mics up and start SF off) - it was the chap who owns the LS3/5s (and the CD)! I let him play (dead keen), but he was struggling with the different sound levels!! (Not so easy after all, eh? ;-) I'll do summat a bit more meaningful with better mic placement (it didn't move from what you see in the pic) and level matching in due course, I have the LS3/5s for a week now.... Take it your driving them with a proper amplifier not one of these Chinese SETI thingies?... Why, can't they *take it*....??? :-) |
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