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USB turntable
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 10:02:37 +0000, Glenn Richards
wrote: Don Pearce wrote: I'm a little puzzled by the steps you use here, Glenn. Why do you record first to CD-RW when you could go straight to PC? That would save a transcription step, which is always good. And of course with a PC you can choose your sound card, which means that the ADC is a known and guaranteed high quality item. A CD recorded is a bit of a pig in a poke, and while it may be good, there is no way you can assure yourself of that. I've generally found a few problems with using a PC sound card to capture stuff like this. Often the audio will glitch if, say, Windows decides it's going to start swapping stuff (this is on a P4 2.4GHz with 1GB RAM, so no CPU or memory issues). I'm also less than convinced about the quality of reasonably priced sound cards, to get anything decent you seem to have to spend quite a lot. I'm currently using a PC with up to 8 channels of audio capture at 24/96, so if you are getting glitches with 2 channel stereo destined for a CD, that would suggest something badly wrong with your PC. You should get someone to look at it for you. As for the quality of PC sound cards, virtually anything beyond entry level these days (avoid AC'97 as fitted to mother boards like the plague, of course) is of an exemplary standard, and will be far from the weakest link in the chain. More importantly, and perhaps more practically, I don't have a PC in my living room (where the hi-fi is located). The onboard sound card on my old laptop (eMachines M5116) is pretty much appalling (hooked it up to the hi-fi once and the only thing I can say is TOTAL harmonic distortion!). The new laptop (Compaq R4000 series) doesn't have a line input, only a mic input. So it'd be a case of using a USB or Firewire sound card for capture. Practicalities determine what you must do, of course, but it is probably not a great idea to include their consequences in your list of advice to somebody trying to do the best he can. It's far easier just to record stuff to CD-RW and capture that way. The ADC in the Sony recorder is actually pretty damned good. As I say, for you, yes - because your setup prevents you doing otherwise. But not the best advice. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
USB turntable
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 10:02:37 +0000, Glenn Richards
wrote: I've generally found a few problems with using a PC sound card to capture stuff like this. Often the audio will glitch if, say, Windows decides it's going to start swapping stuff (this is on a P4 2.4GHz with 1GB RAM, so no CPU or memory issues). I'm also less than convinced about the quality of reasonably priced sound cards, to get anything decent you seem to have to spend quite a lot. As you're interested in audio quality, and your music chain includes a computer, shouldn't you really sort your computer out? If you're glitching on a simple stereo recording, something is very wrong. I very much doubt a stand-alone CD recorder is going to incorporate anything better than (say) the very affordable M-Audio Audiophile sound card. What does Super Bit Mapping claim to do? |
USB turntable
Glenn Richards wrote:
If I'm transferring vinyl to a digital format I use a Rega Planar 3, RB300 tonearm, Ortofon 510 cart, Pro-Ject Phono Box II and Sony RCD-W100 CD recorder. Record to CD-RW, extract to PC, clean up (de-click etc), burn back to CD-R. Hi! I'm currently using an old Pioneer direct drive deck with an Empire 2000 cartridge in it for this job. Its all a bit rough and ready from there. I'm using the headphone socket on the Technics amp as a line out into the PC. The clean up is courtesy of Magix Cleaning Lab. The set up seems to work well enough to my ears anyway. Regards David |
USB turntable
Don Pearce wrote:
I'm currently using a PC with up to 8 channels of audio capture at 24/96, so if you are getting glitches with 2 channel stereo destined for a CD, that would suggest something badly wrong with your PC. You should get someone to look at it for you. I'm sure I could get it to work reliably by turning off the network, disabling anti-virus and Windows Defender, uninstalling anything that is likely to steal CPU time and turning off the paging file (swap). Which would make the PC run just fine for a digital audio workstation... and pretty much useless for anything else (photo editing, web browsing etc). Of course your sound card may well have a large hardware FIFO buffer on it which would of course prevent such problems. As for the quality of PC sound cards, virtually anything beyond entry level these days (avoid AC'97 as fitted to mother boards like the plague, of course) is of an exemplary standard, and will be far from the weakest link in the chain. Well yes... AC97 is pretty pants, even with SPDIF out. 44.1 doesn't like being resampled to 48... A good cheap solution for playback - Creative MP3 Blaster switched to digital only mode (no resampling) feeding an external DAC, either built in to an AV receiver or an offboard DAC bought cheaply from eBay. Not sure about recording though. I don't do much audio recording work nowadays, just a few custom install systems on the side... and the dubious honour of being the "bloke down the pub that knows about audio". ;-) Have done quite a few in-car installs though, can tell you a few interesting stories about how I've demonstrated to several boy racer types exactly why their in-car excretainment is so bad! It's far easier just to record stuff to CD-RW and capture that way. The ADC in the Sony recorder is actually pretty damned good. As I say, for you, yes - because your setup prevents you doing otherwise. But not the best advice. The "transfer to PC, clean up and burn back" stage is optional. Recommended of course as even very good condition vinyl will have a few pops and clicks, but not essential. Actually would you happen to know of a decent PCI sound card with SPDIF in and out (optical or co-ax, or preferably both) that doesn't resample, works well with WinXP SP2 and can produce a bit-perfect copy of what's squirted into the SPDIF into a WAV file? Preferably one that costs less than the GDP of most third world countries? -- Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735 Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/ IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation |
USB turntable
Laurence Payne wrote:
As you're interested in audio quality, and your music chain includes a computer, shouldn't you really sort your computer out? If you're glitching on a simple stereo recording, something is very wrong. I'm pretty sure what it is - there's a lot of stuff running on that PC (background services etc). It's primarily an office PC and as I said in an earlier post to Don disabling this stuff will make it pretty useless for its primary function. I'm sure a dedicated audio workstation would solve the problem... but that would cost more than the £200 I paid for a standalone CD recorder. And probably wouldn't include Super Bit Mapping either. I very much doubt a stand-alone CD recorder is going to incorporate anything better than (say) the very affordable M-Audio Audiophile sound card. I haven't had a play around with this particular sound card, but the analogue stage on the Sony CD recorder is very good. What does Super Bit Mapping claim to do? http://www.swee****er.com/publicatio...nterSN_05.html "Super Bit Mapping (SBM) is a process designed to get the equivalent of 20-bit performance from a 16-bit format like DAT or CD. How does it work? Well, SBM is an intelligent filter process that takes advantage of the human ear's non-linear frequency response. Since our ears are less sensitive to higher and lower frequencies, the process uses noise-shaping to distribute digital quantization noise in the areas of frequency response where the ear is much less likely to perceive it." Seems to work anyway. In both blind and non-blind tests (analogue copy from HDCD-encoded disc to CD-R) the recording made with SBM sounds consistently cleaner (particularly in the midband, male vocals etc) and more dynamic than that made without. -- Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735 Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/ IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation |
USB turntable
Glenn Richards wrote:
Seems to work anyway. In both blind and non-blind tests (analogue copy from HDCD-encoded disc to CD-R) the recording made with SBM sounds consistently cleaner (particularly in the midband, male vocals etc) and more dynamic than that made without. We know all about your blind testing abilities. How about a couple of short samples (wav, not mp3) to demonstrate the difference? You must have a few MB spare on your web server. And while you're at it, you could do the same for your magic interconnects. -- Eiron. |
USB turntable
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 11:02:06 +0000, Glenn Richards
wrote: Don Pearce wrote: I'm currently using a PC with up to 8 channels of audio capture at 24/96, so if you are getting glitches with 2 channel stereo destined for a CD, that would suggest something badly wrong with your PC. You should get someone to look at it for you. I'm sure I could get it to work reliably by turning off the network, disabling anti-virus and Windows Defender, uninstalling anything that is likely to steal CPU time and turning off the paging file (swap). Which would make the PC run just fine for a digital audio workstation... and pretty much useless for anything else (photo editing, web browsing etc). Of course your sound card may well have a large hardware FIFO buffer on it which would of course prevent such problems. My computer has all that stuff working- network, firewall, antivirus etc. No problem at all. As for the quality of PC sound cards, virtually anything beyond entry level these days (avoid AC'97 as fitted to mother boards like the plague, of course) is of an exemplary standard, and will be far from the weakest link in the chain. Well yes... AC97 is pretty pants, even with SPDIF out. 44.1 doesn't like being resampled to 48... A good cheap solution for playback - Creative MP3 Blaster switched to digital only mode (no resampling) feeding an external DAC, either built in to an AV receiver or an offboard DAC bought cheaply from eBay. Not sure about recording though. I don't do much audio recording work nowadays, just a few custom install systems on the side... and the dubious honour of being the "bloke down the pub that knows about audio". ;-) Have done quite a few in-car installs though, can tell you a few interesting stories about how I've demonstrated to several boy racer types exactly why their in-car excretainment is so bad! It's far easier just to record stuff to CD-RW and capture that way. The ADC in the Sony recorder is actually pretty damned good. As I say, for you, yes - because your setup prevents you doing otherwise. But not the best advice. The "transfer to PC, clean up and burn back" stage is optional. Recommended of course as even very good condition vinyl will have a few pops and clicks, but not essential. Actually would you happen to know of a decent PCI sound card with SPDIF in and out (optical or co-ax, or preferably both) that doesn't resample, works well with WinXP SP2 and can produce a bit-perfect copy of what's squirted into the SPDIF into a WAV file? Preferably one that costs less than the GDP of most third world countries? Most of them. As already suggested elsewhere, the M-Audio card - 24/96 for example - would do that very well. It costs about 50 quid. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
USB turntable
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 11:02:06 +0000, Glenn Richards
wrote: I'm currently using a PC with up to 8 channels of audio capture at 24/96, so if you are getting glitches with 2 channel stereo destined for a CD, that would suggest something badly wrong with your PC. You should get someone to look at it for you. I'm sure I could get it to work reliably by turning off the network, disabling anti-virus and Windows Defender, uninstalling anything that is likely to steal CPU time and turning off the paging file (swap). Which would make the PC run just fine for a digital audio workstation... and pretty much useless for anything else (photo editing, web browsing etc). Of course your sound card may well have a large hardware FIFO buffer on it which would of course prevent such problems. You shouldn't even have to do that, though temporarily disabling the network port might be a good idea. A competent sound card is of course essential, but doesn't have to be expensive. What anti-virus are you using? Norton has got very top-heavy, and McAfee seems intent on world domination - it's even sabotaged Word on a couple of systems I've been called out to. But the answer's simple - dump them and use AVG Free or one of the other perfectly competent lightweight programs. The swapfile is a complete red herring on modern systems with adequate RAM. Forget those audio "tweaks" from the last-generation-but-one. I looked at that Sony CD recorder you mentioned. Retails at well under £200. It's not going to have anything particularly wonderful in the ADC department at that price I'm afraid. And, for real-time recording, you'll have more and more problems finding media that will burn at 1X. You obviously care about the quality of your vinyl-playing gear. Seems a pity to let it down at the digital end of the chain. |
USB turntable
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 11:12:34 +0000, Glenn Richards
wrote: What does Super Bit Mapping claim to do? http://www.swee****er.com/publicatio...nterSN_05.html Um. The description is typical snake-oil pseudo-science. Were you having a problem with "digital quantisation noise"? Whatever that is? |
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