USB turntable
 

On the search for Xmas presents in one of our better known department
stores, I came across a device described as a "USB Turntable" for making
one's own CDs & MP3s. As it was available to touch, I tried rotating the
turntable, and couldn't believe just how light it was - they must be
air-freighted here from the far east! Price was around £120.

Just hope it performs better than I fear - my own HDD recordings use a
decent quality Pioneer turntable and separate external audio to digital
converter.
--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

USB turntable
 

"Malcolm Stewart" wrote in
message .. .
On the search for Xmas presents in one of our better known department
stores, I came across a device described as a "USB Turntable" for making
one's own CDs & MP3s. As it was available to touch, I tried rotating the
turntable, and couldn't believe just how light it was - they must be
air-freighted here from the far east! Price was around £120.

Just hope it performs better than I fear - my own HDD recordings use a
decent quality Pioneer turntable and separate external audio to digital
converter.
--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


I saw one of those things described as "state of the art". I might just get
one to find out how absolutely AWFUL it sounds.

--
John the West Ham fan

USB turntable
 

housetrained wrote:
"Malcolm Stewart" wrote in
message .. .
On the search for Xmas presents in one of our better known department
stores, I came across a device described as a "USB Turntable" for
making one's own CDs & MP3s. As it was available to touch, I tried
rotating the turntable, and couldn't believe just how light it was -
they must be air-freighted here from the far east! Price was around
£120. Just hope it performs better than I fear - my own HDD recordings
use
a decent quality Pioneer turntable and separate external audio to
digital converter.
I saw one of those things described as "state of the art". I might
just get one to find out how absolutely AWFUL it sounds.

It contains the Numark Groovetool cartridge (or similar) 'A high value,
adjustable cartridge in a traditional headshell mount design -- great sound,
great tracking! 6 mil spherical diamond cartridge with 2.5g to 3.5g tracking
force.' which should do wonders for your record collection :-)

Must be a ceramic as the output of anything else wouldn't be high enough, I
think.

USB turntable
 

In article ,
jasee wrote:
It contains the Numark Groovetool cartridge (or similar) 'A high value,
adjustable cartridge in a traditional headshell mount design -- great
sound, great tracking! 6 mil spherical diamond cartridge with 2.5g to
3.5g tracking force.' which should do wonders for your record
collection :-)

Must be a ceramic as the output of anything else wouldn't be high
enough, I think.

If it's USB surely it has a built in preamp and A-D convertor?

--
*Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

USB turntable
 

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
jasee wrote:
It contains the Numark Groovetool cartridge (or similar) 'A high
value, adjustable cartridge in a traditional headshell mount design
-- great sound, great tracking! 6 mil spherical diamond cartridge
with 2.5g to
3.5g tracking force.' which should do wonders for your record
collection :-)

Must be a ceramic as the output of anything else wouldn't be high
enough, I think.

If it's USB surely it has a built in preamp and A-D convertor?

Yes, of course. (I'd forgotten USB) But at about £12 for the cartridge, I
can't imagine it would be even moving magnet.

USB turntable
 

In article ,
jasee wrote:
Yes, of course. (I'd forgotten USB) But at about £12 for the cartridge,
I can't imagine it would be even moving magnet.

I dunno the relative manufacturing costs of MM versus ceramic. This sort
of thing has shifted dramatically with CAD machinery.

--
*Preserve wildlife - Go pickle a squirrel*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

USB turntable
 

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
jasee wrote:
Yes, of course. (I'd forgotten USB) But at about £12 for the
cartridge, I can't imagine it would be even moving magnet.

I dunno the relative manufacturing costs of MM versus ceramic. This
sort of thing has shifted dramatically with CAD machinery.

Oh, so whats now considered a good cartridge?
It used to be (generally) moving coils in the days before things went crazy.

USB turntable
 

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 13:53:09 -0000, jasee wrote:


Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
jasee wrote:
It contains the Numark Groovetool cartridge (or similar) 'A high
value, adjustable cartridge in a traditional headshell mount design
-- great sound, great tracking! 6 mil spherical diamond cartridge
with 2.5g to
3.5g tracking force.' which should do wonders for your record
collection :-)

Must be a ceramic as the output of anything else wouldn't be high
enough, I think.

If it's USB surely it has a built in preamp and A-D convertor?

Yes, of course. (I'd forgotten USB) But at about £12 for the cartridge, I
can't imagine it would be even moving magnet.

Considering the millions (billions?) of MM cartridges made since the 60's, I
can't imagine ceramic being cheaper to make. A MM cartridge can be made for
about the price of a cheap pair of headphones.

USB turntable
 

"jasee" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
jasee wrote:
It contains the Numark Groovetool cartridge (or similar) 'A high
value, adjustable cartridge in a traditional headshell mount design
-- great sound, great tracking! 6 mil spherical diamond cartridge
with 2.5g to
3.5g tracking force.' which should do wonders for your record
collection :-)

Must be a ceramic as the output of anything else wouldn't be high
enough, I think.

If it's USB surely it has a built in preamp and A-D convertor?

Yes, of course. (I'd forgotten USB) But at about £12 for the cartridge, I
can't imagine it would be even moving magnet.


The Goldring Elan retails for about 19 quid retail - my local telly shop
pays about 7 quid each for them in boxes of a dozen or so (set in rows, in
polystyrene) and sells a continuous stream of them to people wanting 'a new
cartridge'.

I was given one to fit to a Thorens that I borrowed to audition and it
sounded perfectly fine, see:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/elan.JPG

USB turntable
 

"jasee" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
jasee wrote:
Yes, of course. (I'd forgotten USB) But at about £12 for the
cartridge, I can't imagine it would be even moving magnet.

I dunno the relative manufacturing costs of MM versus ceramic. This
sort of thing has shifted dramatically with CAD machinery.

Oh, so whats now considered a good cartridge?
It used to be (generally) moving coils in the days before things went
crazy.



Like cars/toasters/lawnmowers/DVDPs &c. nowadays, cartridges all do pretty
much the same job somewhat differently at vastly differing prices and it's
hard to find one that isn't good in its own way - the first question in all
these cases would have to be 'what's your budget'....???

USB turntable
 

Keith G wrote:
"jasee" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
jasee wrote:
It contains the Numark Groovetool cartridge (or similar) 'A high
value, adjustable cartridge in a traditional headshell mount design
-- great sound, great tracking! 6 mil spherical diamond cartridge
with 2.5g to
3.5g tracking force.' which should do wonders for your record
collection :-)
Must be a ceramic as the output of anything else wouldn't be high
enough, I think.
If it's USB surely it has a built in preamp and A-D convertor?
Yes, of course. (I'd forgotten USB) But at about £12 for the cartridge, I
can't imagine it would be even moving magnet.


The Goldring Elan retails for about 19 quid retail - my local telly shop
pays about 7 quid each for them in boxes of a dozen or so (set in rows, in
polystyrene) and sells a continuous stream of them to people wanting 'a new
cartridge'.

I was given one to fit to a Thorens that I borrowed to audition and it
sounded perfectly fine, see:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/elan.JPG



I think I paid a little over 20 quid for an Ortofon OM5E, which sounds
perfectly OK on my (cheap) turntable.

Matt

USB turntable
 

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
jasee wrote:
It contains the Numark Groovetool cartridge (or similar) 'A high value,
adjustable cartridge in a traditional headshell mount design -- great
sound, great tracking! 6 mil spherical diamond cartridge with 2.5g to
3.5g tracking force.' which should do wonders for your record
collection :-)

Must be a ceramic as the output of anything else wouldn't be high
enough, I think.

If it's USB surely it has a built in preamp and A-D convertor?


The preamp and converter would be normally built into the turntable
itself, but how about if some enterprising manufacturer built a
cartridge with a direct digital output? Firewire, USB or S/PDIF? Built
in RIAA equilisation?

And, could use the standard arm wiring to power/connect the output.

What an idea for retrofitting old decks!

:-)

[If someone patents this.... er.... I mentioned it first, and may be
after you...!]

--
Adrian C

USB turntable
 

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 09:24:41 -0000, "jasee"
wrote:

It contains the Numark Groovetool cartridge (or similar) 'A high value,
adjustable cartridge in a traditional headshell mount design -- great sound,
great tracking! 6 mil spherical diamond cartridge with 2.5g to 3.5g tracking
force.' which should do wonders for your record collection :-)

Must be a ceramic as the output of anything else wouldn't be high enough, I
think.

High enough for what? The preamp driving the ADC? What requirement
are you assuming?

USB turntable
 

In article ,
Adrian C wrote:
If it's USB surely it has a built in preamp and A-D convertor?


The preamp and converter would be normally built into the turntable
itself, but how about if some enterprising manufacturer built a
cartridge with a direct digital output? Firewire, USB or S/PDIF? Built
in RIAA equilisation?

But why add the weight of the electronics where you don't want it?

And, could use the standard arm wiring to power/connect the output.

Standard wiring? You'd need to get power up there.

What an idea for retrofitting old decks!

:-)

[If someone patents this.... er.... I mentioned it first, and may be
after you...!]

You should be safe enough. ;-)

--
*How much deeper would the oceans be without sponges? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

USB turntable
 

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 18:47:03 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

The preamp and converter would be normally built into the turntable
itself, but how about if some enterprising manufacturer built a
cartridge with a direct digital output? Firewire, USB or S/PDIF? Built
in RIAA equilisation?

But why add the weight of the electronics where you don't want it?

It might be a single-chip solution. No need to mount it in a heavy
DIL package.


And, could use the standard arm wiring to power/connect the output.

Standard wiring? You'd need to get power up there.

Standard wiring, not standard use of that wiring. There's 4 wires in
a headshell. Plenty to get power in and USB out.

Dave, you don't have to rush SO fast to knock an idea flying :-)

USB turntable
 

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 19:15:39 +0000, Laurence Payne
lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote:

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 18:47:03 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

The preamp and converter would be normally built into the turntable
itself, but how about if some enterprising manufacturer built a
cartridge with a direct digital output? Firewire, USB or S/PDIF? Built
in RIAA equilisation?

But why add the weight of the electronics where you don't want it?

It might be a single-chip solution. No need to mount it in a heavy
DIL package.


And, could use the standard arm wiring to power/connect the output.

Standard wiring? You'd need to get power up there.

Standard wiring, not standard use of that wiring. There's 4 wires in
a headshell. Plenty to get power in and USB out.

Dave, you don't have to rush SO fast to knock an idea flying :-)

You're right. At least a two second pause would have been appropriate
for this one.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

USB turntable
 

In article , Adrian C
wrote:


The preamp and converter would be normally built into the turntable
itself, but how about if some enterprising manufacturer built a
cartridge with a direct digital output? Firewire, USB or S/PDIF? Built
in RIAA equilisation?

The result would probably be relatively expensive and also be excessively
heavy.

And, could use the standard arm wiring to power/connect the output.

What an idea for retrofitting old decks!

:-)

[If someone patents this.... er.... I mentioned it first, and may be
after you...!]

In the UK/EU, once someone mentions an idea in public it ceases to be
patentable as it has been 'published'. So in the unlikely event that no-one
had already thought of this, your comment has probably made a patent
worthless. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

USB turntable
 

In article , Laurence Payne
lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote:
On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 18:47:03 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

The preamp and converter would be normally built into the turntable
itself, but how about if some enterprising manufacturer built a
cartridge with a direct digital output? Firewire, USB or S/PDIF?
Built in RIAA equilisation?

But why add the weight of the electronics where you don't want it?

It might be a single-chip solution. No need to mount it in a heavy DIL
package.

Would still add mass. You also need to worry about any digital portions of
such a device causing interference to the input signal generator - i.e. the
coil of the actual cartridge. Having no packaging isn't likely to help
here. Sounds like a pointless nightmare to me. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

USB turntable
 

housetrained wrote:

I saw one of those things described as "state of the art". I might just get
one to find out how absolutely AWFUL it sounds.

You mean how awful *VINYL* sounds surely ?

Graham

USB turntable
 

jasee wrote:

I saw one of those things described as "state of the art". I might
just get one to find out how absolutely AWFUL it sounds.

It contains the Numark Groovetool cartridge (or similar) 'A high value,
adjustable cartridge in a traditional headshell mount design -- great sound,
great tracking! 6 mil spherical diamond cartridge with 2.5g to 3.5g tracking
force.' which should do wonders for your record collection :-)

Must be a ceramic as the output of anything else wouldn't be high enough, I
think.

Hah.

Prolly a copy of the Stanton 500A.

Graham

USB turntable
 

jasee wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

If it's USB surely it has a built in preamp and A-D convertor?

Yes, of course. (I'd forgotten USB) But at about £12 for the cartridge, I
can't imagine it would be even moving magnet.

NITWIT

USB turntable
 

jasee wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
jasee wrote:
Yes, of course. (I'd forgotten USB) But at about £12 for the
cartridge, I can't imagine it would be even moving magnet.

I dunno the relative manufacturing costs of MM versus ceramic. This
sort of thing has shifted dramatically with CAD machinery.

Oh, so whats now considered a good cartridge?
It used to be (generally) moving coils in the days before things went crazy.

Most cartridges are moving magnet.

Graham

USB turntable
 

Keith G wrote:

I was given one to fit to a Thorens that I borrowed to audition and it
sounded perfectly fine, see:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/elan.JPG

But you're demonstrably deaf Keith !

Graham

USB turntable
 

Adrian C wrote:

but how about if some enterprising manufacturer built a
cartridge with a direct digital output? Firewire, USB or S/PDIF? Built
in RIAA equilisation?

IDIOT !

USB turntable
 

Laurence Payne wrote:

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 18:47:03 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

But why add the weight of the electronics where you don't want it?

It might be a single-chip solution. No need to mount it in a heavy
DIL package.

NITWIT !

USB turntable
 

Jim Lesurf wrote:
In the UK/EU, once someone mentions an idea in public it ceases to be
patentable as it has been 'published'. So in the unlikely event that no-one
had already thought of this, your comment has probably made a patent
worthless. :-)

Good. It will make the chances of the item coming quicker to market even
better being priced competitively by a number of manufacturers. Come on
down!!!

BTW, not connected to the above statement, but interesting none the
less. It is now possible to search patents through google

http://www.google.co.uk/patents

--
Adrian C

USB turntable
 

Don Pearce wrote:
Laurence Payne wrote:

Standard wiring, not standard use of that wiring. There's 4 wires in
a headshell. Plenty to get power in and USB out.

Dave, you don't have to rush SO fast to knock an idea flying :-)

You're right. At least a two second pause would have been appropriate
for this one.


Yes! A small memory buffer (think two seconds may be a teensy bit long)
built on the device with a DSP declicking algorithm ... ;-)

:-p

--
Adrian C

USB turntable
 

Malcolm Stewart wrote:

Just hope it performs better than I fear - my own HDD recordings use a
decent quality Pioneer turntable and separate external audio to digital
converter.

I've seen these things advertised and they look very plasticky. Did
actually see an el-cheapo turntable the other day which I'd imagine
would be very similar to the mechanical part of one of these things.
Yay, ruin all your precious irreplaceable vinyl...

If I'm transferring vinyl to a digital format I use a Rega Planar 3,
RB300 tonearm, Ortofon 510 cart, Pro-Ject Phono Box II and Sony RCD-W100
CD recorder. Record to CD-RW, extract to PC, clean up (de-click etc),
burn back to CD-R.

The results are generally pretty good actually, especially if you turn
on SBM (Super Bit Mapping) on the CD recorder.

--
Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735
Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/

IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation

USB turntable
 

On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 09:01:47 +0000, Glenn Richards
wrote:

Malcolm Stewart wrote:

Just hope it performs better than I fear - my own HDD recordings use a
decent quality Pioneer turntable and separate external audio to digital
converter.

I've seen these things advertised and they look very plasticky. Did
actually see an el-cheapo turntable the other day which I'd imagine
would be very similar to the mechanical part of one of these things.
Yay, ruin all your precious irreplaceable vinyl...

If I'm transferring vinyl to a digital format I use a Rega Planar 3,
RB300 tonearm, Ortofon 510 cart, Pro-Ject Phono Box II and Sony RCD-W100
CD recorder. Record to CD-RW, extract to PC, clean up (de-click etc),
burn back to CD-R.

The results are generally pretty good actually, especially if you turn
on SBM (Super Bit Mapping) on the CD recorder.

I'm a little puzzled by the steps you use here, Glenn. Why do you
record first to CD-RW when you could go straight to PC? That would
save a transcription step, which is always good. And of course with a
PC you can choose your sound card, which means that the ADC is a known
and guaranteed high quality item. A CD recorded is a bit of a pig in
a poke, and while it may be good, there is no way you can assure
yourself of that.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

USB turntable
 

Don Pearce wrote:

I'm a little puzzled by the steps you use here, Glenn. Why do you
record first to CD-RW when you could go straight to PC? That would
save a transcription step, which is always good. And of course with a
PC you can choose your sound card, which means that the ADC is a known
and guaranteed high quality item. A CD recorded is a bit of a pig in
a poke, and while it may be good, there is no way you can assure
yourself of that.

I've generally found a few problems with using a PC sound card to
capture stuff like this. Often the audio will glitch if, say, Windows
decides it's going to start swapping stuff (this is on a P4 2.4GHz with
1GB RAM, so no CPU or memory issues). I'm also less than convinced about
the quality of reasonably priced sound cards, to get anything decent you
seem to have to spend quite a lot.

More importantly, and perhaps more practically, I don't have a PC in my
living room (where the hi-fi is located). The onboard sound card on my
old laptop (eMachines M5116) is pretty much appalling (hooked it up to
the hi-fi once and the only thing I can say is TOTAL harmonic
distortion!). The new laptop (Compaq R4000 series) doesn't have a line
input, only a mic input. So it'd be a case of using a USB or Firewire
sound card for capture.

It's far easier just to record stuff to CD-RW and capture that way. The
ADC in the Sony recorder is actually pretty damned good.

--
Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735
Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/

IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation

USB turntable
 

On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 10:02:37 +0000, Glenn Richards
wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:

I'm a little puzzled by the steps you use here, Glenn. Why do you
record first to CD-RW when you could go straight to PC? That would
save a transcription step, which is always good. And of course with a
PC you can choose your sound card, which means that the ADC is a known
and guaranteed high quality item. A CD recorded is a bit of a pig in
a poke, and while it may be good, there is no way you can assure
yourself of that.

I've generally found a few problems with using a PC sound card to
capture stuff like this. Often the audio will glitch if, say, Windows
decides it's going to start swapping stuff (this is on a P4 2.4GHz with
1GB RAM, so no CPU or memory issues). I'm also less than convinced about
the quality of reasonably priced sound cards, to get anything decent you
seem to have to spend quite a lot.

I'm currently using a PC with up to 8 channels of audio capture at
24/96, so if you are getting glitches with 2 channel stereo destined
for a CD, that would suggest something badly wrong with your PC. You
should get someone to look at it for you.

As for the quality of PC sound cards, virtually anything beyond entry
level these days (avoid AC'97 as fitted to mother boards like the
plague, of course) is of an exemplary standard, and will be far from
the weakest link in the chain.

More importantly, and perhaps more practically, I don't have a PC in my
living room (where the hi-fi is located). The onboard sound card on my
old laptop (eMachines M5116) is pretty much appalling (hooked it up to
the hi-fi once and the only thing I can say is TOTAL harmonic
distortion!). The new laptop (Compaq R4000 series) doesn't have a line
input, only a mic input. So it'd be a case of using a USB or Firewire
sound card for capture.

Practicalities determine what you must do, of course, but it is
probably not a great idea to include their consequences in your list
of advice to somebody trying to do the best he can.

It's far easier just to record stuff to CD-RW and capture that way. The
ADC in the Sony recorder is actually pretty damned good.

As I say, for you, yes - because your setup prevents you doing
otherwise. But not the best advice.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

USB turntable
 

On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 10:02:37 +0000, Glenn Richards
wrote:

I've generally found a few problems with using a PC sound card to
capture stuff like this. Often the audio will glitch if, say, Windows
decides it's going to start swapping stuff (this is on a P4 2.4GHz with
1GB RAM, so no CPU or memory issues). I'm also less than convinced about
the quality of reasonably priced sound cards, to get anything decent you
seem to have to spend quite a lot.

As you're interested in audio quality, and your music chain includes a
computer, shouldn't you really sort your computer out? If you're
glitching on a simple stereo recording, something is very wrong.

I very much doubt a stand-alone CD recorder is going to incorporate
anything better than (say) the very affordable M-Audio Audiophile
sound card.

What does Super Bit Mapping claim to do?

USB turntable
 

Glenn Richards wrote:

If I'm transferring vinyl to a digital format I use a Rega Planar 3,
RB300 tonearm, Ortofon 510 cart, Pro-Ject Phono Box II and Sony RCD-W100
CD recorder. Record to CD-RW, extract to PC, clean up (de-click etc),
burn back to CD-R.

Hi!

I'm currently using an old Pioneer direct drive deck with an Empire 2000
cartridge in it for this job.

Its all a bit rough and ready from there. I'm using the headphone socket
on the Technics amp as a line out into the PC. The clean up is courtesy
of Magix Cleaning Lab. The set up seems to work well enough to my ears
anyway.

Regards

David

USB turntable
 

Don Pearce wrote:

I'm currently using a PC with up to 8 channels of audio capture at
24/96, so if you are getting glitches with 2 channel stereo destined
for a CD, that would suggest something badly wrong with your PC. You
should get someone to look at it for you.

I'm sure I could get it to work reliably by turning off the network,
disabling anti-virus and Windows Defender, uninstalling anything that is
likely to steal CPU time and turning off the paging file (swap). Which
would make the PC run just fine for a digital audio workstation... and
pretty much useless for anything else (photo editing, web browsing etc).

Of course your sound card may well have a large hardware FIFO buffer on
it which would of course prevent such problems.

As for the quality of PC sound cards, virtually anything beyond entry
level these days (avoid AC'97 as fitted to mother boards like the
plague, of course) is of an exemplary standard, and will be far from
the weakest link in the chain.

Well yes... AC97 is pretty pants, even with SPDIF out. 44.1 doesn't like
being resampled to 48...

A good cheap solution for playback - Creative MP3 Blaster switched to
digital only mode (no resampling) feeding an external DAC, either built
in to an AV receiver or an offboard DAC bought cheaply from eBay. Not
sure about recording though.

I don't do much audio recording work nowadays, just a few custom install
systems on the side... and the dubious honour of being the "bloke down
the pub that knows about audio". ;-) Have done quite a few in-car
installs though, can tell you a few interesting stories about how I've
demonstrated to several boy racer types exactly why their in-car
excretainment is so bad!

It's far easier just to record stuff to CD-RW and capture that way. The
ADC in the Sony recorder is actually pretty damned good.
As I say, for you, yes - because your setup prevents you doing
otherwise. But not the best advice.

The "transfer to PC, clean up and burn back" stage is optional.
Recommended of course as even very good condition vinyl will have a few
pops and clicks, but not essential.

Actually would you happen to know of a decent PCI sound card with SPDIF
in and out (optical or co-ax, or preferably both) that doesn't resample,
works well with WinXP SP2 and can produce a bit-perfect copy of what's
squirted into the SPDIF into a WAV file? Preferably one that costs less
than the GDP of most third world countries?

--
Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735
Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/

IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation

USB turntable
 

Laurence Payne wrote:

As you're interested in audio quality, and your music chain includes a
computer, shouldn't you really sort your computer out? If you're
glitching on a simple stereo recording, something is very wrong.

I'm pretty sure what it is - there's a lot of stuff running on that PC
(background services etc). It's primarily an office PC and as I said in
an earlier post to Don disabling this stuff will make it pretty useless
for its primary function. I'm sure a dedicated audio workstation would
solve the problem... but that would cost more than the £200 I paid for a
standalone CD recorder. And probably wouldn't include Super Bit Mapping
either.

I very much doubt a stand-alone CD recorder is going to incorporate
anything better than (say) the very affordable M-Audio Audiophile
sound card.

I haven't had a play around with this particular sound card, but the
analogue stage on the Sony CD recorder is very good.

What does Super Bit Mapping claim to do?

http://www.swee****er.com/publicatio...nterSN_05.html

"Super Bit Mapping (SBM) is a process designed to get the equivalent of
20-bit performance from a 16-bit format like DAT or CD. How does it
work? Well, SBM is an intelligent filter process that takes advantage of
the human ear's non-linear frequency response. Since our ears are less
sensitive to higher and lower frequencies, the process uses
noise-shaping to distribute digital quantization noise in the areas of
frequency response where the ear is much less likely to perceive it."

Seems to work anyway. In both blind and non-blind tests (analogue copy
from HDCD-encoded disc to CD-R) the recording made with SBM sounds
consistently cleaner (particularly in the midband, male vocals etc) and
more dynamic than that made without.

--
Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735
Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/

IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation

USB turntable
 

Glenn Richards wrote:


Seems to work anyway. In both blind and non-blind tests (analogue copy
from HDCD-encoded disc to CD-R) the recording made with SBM sounds
consistently cleaner (particularly in the midband, male vocals etc) and
more dynamic than that made without.

We know all about your blind testing abilities. How about a couple of
short samples (wav, not mp3) to demonstrate the difference?
You must have a few MB spare on your web server.
And while you're at it, you could do the same for your magic interconnects.

--
Eiron.

USB turntable
 

On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 11:02:06 +0000, Glenn Richards
wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:

I'm currently using a PC with up to 8 channels of audio capture at
24/96, so if you are getting glitches with 2 channel stereo destined
for a CD, that would suggest something badly wrong with your PC. You
should get someone to look at it for you.

I'm sure I could get it to work reliably by turning off the network,
disabling anti-virus and Windows Defender, uninstalling anything that is
likely to steal CPU time and turning off the paging file (swap). Which
would make the PC run just fine for a digital audio workstation... and
pretty much useless for anything else (photo editing, web browsing etc).

Of course your sound card may well have a large hardware FIFO buffer on
it which would of course prevent such problems.

My computer has all that stuff working- network, firewall, antivirus
etc. No problem at all.

As for the quality of PC sound cards, virtually anything beyond entry
level these days (avoid AC'97 as fitted to mother boards like the
plague, of course) is of an exemplary standard, and will be far from
the weakest link in the chain.

Well yes... AC97 is pretty pants, even with SPDIF out. 44.1 doesn't like
being resampled to 48...

A good cheap solution for playback - Creative MP3 Blaster switched to
digital only mode (no resampling) feeding an external DAC, either built
in to an AV receiver or an offboard DAC bought cheaply from eBay. Not
sure about recording though.

I don't do much audio recording work nowadays, just a few custom install
systems on the side... and the dubious honour of being the "bloke down
the pub that knows about audio". ;-) Have done quite a few in-car
installs though, can tell you a few interesting stories about how I've
demonstrated to several boy racer types exactly why their in-car
excretainment is so bad!

It's far easier just to record stuff to CD-RW and capture that way. The
ADC in the Sony recorder is actually pretty damned good.
As I say, for you, yes - because your setup prevents you doing
otherwise. But not the best advice.

The "transfer to PC, clean up and burn back" stage is optional.
Recommended of course as even very good condition vinyl will have a few
pops and clicks, but not essential.

Actually would you happen to know of a decent PCI sound card with SPDIF
in and out (optical or co-ax, or preferably both) that doesn't resample,
works well with WinXP SP2 and can produce a bit-perfect copy of what's
squirted into the SPDIF into a WAV file? Preferably one that costs less
than the GDP of most third world countries?

Most of them. As already suggested elsewhere, the M-Audio card - 24/96
for example - would do that very well. It costs about 50 quid.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

USB turntable
 

On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 11:21:57 GMT, (Don Pearce)
wrote:

I'm sure I could get it to work reliably by turning off the network,
disabling anti-virus and Windows Defender, uninstalling anything that is
likely to steal CPU time and turning off the paging file (swap). Which
would make the PC run just fine for a digital audio workstation... and
pretty much useless for anything else (photo editing, web browsing etc).

Of course your sound card may well have a large hardware FIFO buffer on
it which would of course prevent such problems.

Actually I'm going to change my advice. Computers usually get this way
when they've been in use for a while and had loads of stuff installed,
deinstalled, new drivers etc etc etc.

So the thing to do is use your recovery disc and re-install the whole
machine from scratch. It is like waving a magic wand, all of a sudden
it starts up faster and everything runs the way it is supposed to. I
do this probably once a year.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

USB turntable
 

On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 11:02:06 +0000, Glenn Richards
wrote:

I'm currently using a PC with up to 8 channels of audio capture at
24/96, so if you are getting glitches with 2 channel stereo destined
for a CD, that would suggest something badly wrong with your PC. You
should get someone to look at it for you.

I'm sure I could get it to work reliably by turning off the network,
disabling anti-virus and Windows Defender, uninstalling anything that is
likely to steal CPU time and turning off the paging file (swap). Which
would make the PC run just fine for a digital audio workstation... and
pretty much useless for anything else (photo editing, web browsing etc).

Of course your sound card may well have a large hardware FIFO buffer on
it which would of course prevent such problems.

You shouldn't even have to do that, though temporarily disabling the
network port might be a good idea. A competent sound card is of
course essential, but doesn't have to be expensive. What anti-virus
are you using? Norton has got very top-heavy, and McAfee seems intent
on world domination - it's even sabotaged Word on a couple of systems
I've been called out to. But the answer's simple - dump them and use
AVG Free or one of the other perfectly competent lightweight programs.

The swapfile is a complete red herring on modern systems with adequate
RAM. Forget those audio "tweaks" from the last-generation-but-one.

I looked at that Sony CD recorder you mentioned. Retails at well
under £200. It's not going to have anything particularly wonderful in
the ADC department at that price I'm afraid. And, for real-time
recording, you'll have more and more problems finding media that will
burn at 1X.

You obviously care about the quality of your vinyl-playing gear. Seems
a pity to let it down at the digital end of the chain.

USB turntable
 

On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 11:12:34 +0000, Glenn Richards
wrote:

What does Super Bit Mapping claim to do?

http://www.swee****er.com/publicatio...nterSN_05.html

Um. The description is typical snake-oil pseudo-science. Were you
having a problem with "digital quantisation noise"? Whatever that
is?