Ortofon project k4
 

Dear all,

I have recently purchased a Project Debut III turntable with a NAD PP2
Phono Stage.


The debut 3 comes with a Ortofon OM 5E cartridge which sounds really
great. Though I really liked the feel and smothness of the Rega P3
which was a bit beyond my budget.


I want to know if -


1. Anyone on here has upgraded to to the Project K4 from 5E and noticed

any remarkable imporvement. I want to know if $129 I will spend is
worth the money.
2. How close does it get to the P3 after an upgrade.


Thanks in advance


Regards


MB

Ortofon project k4
 

"max graff" wrote in message
ups.com...
Dear all,

I have recently purchased a Project Debut III turntable with a NAD PP2
Phono Stage.


The debut 3 comes with a Ortofon OM 5E cartridge which sounds really
great. Though I really liked the feel and smothness of the Rega P3
which was a bit beyond my budget.


I want to know if -


1. Anyone on here has upgraded to to the Project K4 from 5E and noticed

any remarkable imporvement. I want to know if $129 I will spend is
worth the money.
2. How close does it get to the P3 after an upgrade.



Hmm, I'm sure with another 'a' you might have generated a better response,
but I would say you are asking for an impossible opinion. 'Better'
cartridges' should/probably would at least track better than a 'less better'
cartridge (if properly set up), but they won't necessarily sound *better* -
that's down to you and your ears only. You gotta do like the rest of us -
lay the money down and find out for yourself....

Otherwise, I would say just keep slapping the records on and enjoy them!

(Never get rid of a cartridge until you are *certain* its replacement really
is better for you, btw.....)

Ortofon project k4
 

"max graff" writes:

1. Anyone on here has upgraded to to the Project K4 from 5E and
noticed any remarkable imporvement.

The Pro-Ject K4 is built by Grado, and the specs and photo look nearly
identical to the Grado Prestige Black/Green. I tried a Prestige Black
on my Debut IIISB (as a replacement for the OM5E) and found it
suffered badly from hum pickup from the motor; it seemed like a decent
cartridge otherwise.

I don't know if the K4 has better shielding than the stock Grado
equivalent, or if the Debut III you've got is less likely to suffer
from this since it doesn't have the speed controller built in, but I
think it might be worth borrowing a cartridge to try first before
buying one.

I ended up buying an Ortofon 510mkII instead, which is what Pro-Ject
ship with the slightly-higher-end Debut SE, and I've been very happy
with it.

--
Adam Sampson http://offog.org/

Ortofon project k4
 

Thanks a million Adam. Your tips are really useful.

Ortofon project k4
 

"max graff" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks a million Adam. Your tips are really useful.



They sure are - *borrow* a cartridge??? There's a pretty notion - I wish I
had thought of that instead of buying the dozen or so I have on the go
here!!

If you really want to be lead by the nose and other people's opinions will
do it for you, then I would suggest you *borrow* the AT110E as well as the
510/II - I have both here and, at half the price (should you ever get round
to paying for one), the AT is a better cart (IMO) than the Orto, which I
find a bit 'shouty'....

Anyway, you're in luck - I posted comparisons between all these carts here a
couple (or few) years ago. Here they are again, in case they are of any
interest to you (the clue is in the track name - 'ortofon' means 510/II):


http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...lle-at110e.mp3

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...ville-om5e.mp3

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...le-ortofon.mp3


http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/diner-at110e.mp3

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/diner-om5e.mp3

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/diner-ortofon.mp3


(Perhaps, when you have heard them, my earlier comments may make more sense
to you..... ;-)

Ortofon project k4
 

"Keith G" writes:

They sure are - *borrow* a cartridge??? There's a pretty notion

I'm sure that like me you've got a couple of cartridges sitting around
as "spares" -- it's not entirely implausible that he might know
someone who's got a Prestige Black sitting unused. I've got one, for
example... ;)

If you really want to be lead by the nose and other people's
opinions will do it for you, then I would suggest you *borrow* the
AT110E as well as the 510/II - I have both here and, at half the
price (should you ever get round to paying for one), the AT is a
better cart (IMO) than the Orto, which I find a bit 'shouty'....

I've got an AT110E too, as it happens. It's a decent enough cartridge
(particularly for the money), but it's got noticably less HF response
than the 510mkII -- which presumably is why the latter sounds shouty
to you, and the AT110E sounds a bit muffled to my CD-attuned
ears. I did a similar comparison back when I last tried the AT110E; I
assume you'll probably like the AT's sound better here too?

http://offog.org/stuff/rocky-mountain-way-510mkii.mp3
http://offog.org/stuff/rocky-mountain-way-at110e.mp3

It's worth noting that both the Grado and the AT110E are heavy enough
to need the alternate counterweight for the Debut III, which you can
get for twelve quid or so from Pro-Ject's UK importer. (Or you can do
the maths to work out how much extra mass to add to the existing
counterweight!) The 510mkII's light enough to work with the standard
one.

That Coolsville track is nice -- off "Strange Angels"?

--
Adam Sampson http://offog.org/

Ortofon project k4
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"max graff" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks a million Adam. Your tips are really useful.



They sure are - *borrow* a cartridge??? There's a pretty notion - I wish I
had thought of that instead of buying the dozen or so I have on the go
here!!

If you really want to be lead by the nose and other people's opinions will
do it for you, then I would suggest you *borrow* the AT110E as well as the
510/II - I have both here and, at half the price (should you ever get
round to paying for one), the AT is a better cart (IMO) than the Orto,
which I find a bit 'shouty'....

Anyway, you're in luck - I posted comparisons between all these carts here
a couple (or few) years ago. Here they are again, in case they are of any
interest to you (the clue is in the track name - 'ortofon' means 510/II):


http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...lle-at110e.mp3

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...ville-om5e.mp3

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...le-ortofon.mp3


http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/diner-at110e.mp3

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/diner-om5e.mp3

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/diner-ortofon.mp3


(Perhaps, when you have heard them, my earlier comments may make more
sense to you..... ;-)



Correction:

All above '510/II' references should read '520/Mk II'.....

(Sorry for any confusion caused....)

Ortofon project k4
 

"Adam Sampson" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" writes:

They sure are - *borrow* a cartridge??? There's a pretty notion

I'm sure that like me you've got a couple of cartridges sitting around
as "spares" -- it's not entirely implausible that he might know
someone who's got a Prestige Black sitting unused. I've got one, for
example... ;)


I've got well over a dozen carts kicking about here and might well be
tempted to flog some of 'em off cheap, but I ain't so sure about *lending*
them to a total stranger...??

(Different story with people I know of course, but even then I'd baulk at
letting an expensive MC out of my sight - I don't need any help ****ing
those up, I can do that perfectly well all on my own.....!! ;-)



If you really want to be lead by the nose and other people's
opinions will do it for you, then I would suggest you *borrow* the
AT110E as well as the 510/II - I have both here and, at half the
price (should you ever get round to paying for one), the AT is a
better cart (IMO) than the Orto, which I find a bit 'shouty'....

I've got an AT110E too, as it happens. It's a decent enough cartridge
(particularly for the money), but it's got noticably less HF response
than the 510mkII -- which presumably is why the latter sounds shouty
to you, and the AT110E sounds a bit muffled to my CD-attuned
ears. I did a similar comparison back when I last tried the AT110E; I
assume you'll probably like the AT's sound better here too?

http://offog.org/stuff/rocky-mountain-way-510mkii.mp3
http://offog.org/stuff/rocky-mountain-way-at110e.mp3


OK, this is interesting (nice to see a bit of Show N Tell coming back to
me)....

I bummed them to a CDRW (it says 'Bum' in my copy of Nero...) and ran them
through two quite different pairs of speakers on the same SS kit and made my
own decision:

I can see that most/many would go for the 510, due to its comparative 'up
front' qualities and incisive treble (cymbals), but my choice was for the
110E which I think offers a better overall balance with better placement of
the vocal and good 'air'. Then in comes Swim (my resident *ears*) who
listened and declared her choice to be the second track (110E) also with the
following remarks:

Track 1 (510/II) - 'Clearer but harsher, edgy and jaggy...'

Track 2 (110E) - 'Mellow, more musical, easier to listen to, rounder
sound...'

(There were some minor issues with a little distortion on the RH channel,
unless it's in the recording and a little hum present, but they are/were not
of any importance in the overall presentation - happens with all 'posted'
tracks, including mine, I find!! :-)

You pays yer money, you takes yer choice - my point, when it comes to budget
carts, is that the amount of money they cost is no real indicator of
suitability, only that (mostly) a costlier cart/needle might be expected to
track a bit better. FWIW, I don't think there's a bad cart out there these
days and when I first posted my cartridge comparisons a while back, one or
two people actually picked out the AT95E - which is even less money than the
110E!!

In my first reply, my tip to the OP was not to ditch his original cart
(OM5E?) - I think my samples show it to be quite pleasant and actually,
listening to it again right now, I would say that it is very well balanced
with good detail and a nice, full bass for them as like a lot of bass...??


That Coolsville track is nice -- off "Strange Angels"?


Yes it is.

Ortofon project k4
 

Keith/Adam et al,

Another question -

I landed up purchasing a couple of LP's to compare them against my
existing CD collection -
1. John McLauglin - Shakti.
2. John McLauglic, Paco DeLucia, Al Di Meola - Mediterranean Summer
3. Dark side of the moon.

I played my CD's on a Rotel RCD-1072 running from my Marantz 7500 OSE
amp with identical TarLab cables. I notice the bass coming from the CD
is a bit more than coming from Proj-ect Turn table.

So coming back to my question is this that will change if I move my
cartridge up the ladder.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Max

Ortofon project k4
 

"max graff" wrote in message
oups.com...
Keith/Adam et al,

Another question -

I landed up purchasing a couple of LP's to compare them against my
existing CD collection -
1. John McLauglin - Shakti.
2. John McLauglic, Paco DeLucia, Al Di Meola - Mediterranean Summer
3. Dark side of the moon.

I played my CD's on a Rotel RCD-1072 running from my Marantz 7500 OSE
amp with identical TarLab cables. I notice the bass coming from the CD
is a bit more than coming from Proj-ect Turn table.

So coming back to my question is this that will change if I move my
cartridge up the ladder.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.



IIRC, the turntable is a Debut - IME, not the best rig for *bass* per se.
But money won't necessarily get you more bass, in fact some very expensive
MC carts are considered be somwehat bass-light (apparently?) and some very
cheap DJ-type carts (Stantons, for example) have quite a good, thumping
bass. Unfortunately, not only do certain types/models of speaker suit
different types of music best (contrary to what the manufacturers would have
you believe), carts go the same way...!!

(Thankfully, removable headshells look like making a bit of a comeback, so
it won't be too difficult to tailor the needle to the music!)

Personally, I wouldn't worry about matching 'CD Bass' with a vinyl rig -
it's not what it's all about. I'm not saying it can't be done, but on paper,
at least, the CD should marmalise the LP...!! (???) Given a CD and the
corresponding LP, which do you enjoy most when you are listening to them?
That's the main issue in my book, not that there's anything wrong with
enjoying *both*....