Hi all,

I'm looking to upgrade for the first time in ten years and I'm
interested in other people's experiences with shopping for these brands
which aren't available on the internet.

I understand that many people prefer shopping at a main dealer.
Personally, I'm always happy to accept the risks and buy direct if I
can get a good price. I think the last big ticket item I bought in a
shop was a VCR in 1997. I'm only countenancing visiting a dealer
because there is no alternative with these brands.

I'm looking to spend about £1600 list price, but find the idea of
paying some arbitrary price set by the manufacturer rather upsetting.
I'd rather pay an arbitrary 10% less.

Has anyone experience of negotiating recently? Are the big dealers such
as Sevenoaks even open to this? I've no interest in haing around and
trying things out, I just want to go in, and agree a price and then be
out with my new hi-fi.

Any thoughts, experiences or flames (if you must) appreciated.

Mark

"mark" wrote in message
ups.com...

Hi all,

I'm looking to upgrade for the first time in ten years and I'm
interested in other people's experiences with shopping for these brands
which aren't available on the internet.

I understand that many people prefer shopping at a main dealer.
Personally, I'm always happy to accept the risks and buy direct if I
can get a good price. I think the last big ticket item I bought in a
shop was a VCR in 1997. I'm only countenancing visiting a dealer
because there is no alternative with these brands.

I'm looking to spend about £1600 list price, but find the idea of
paying some arbitrary price set by the manufacturer rather upsetting.
I'd rather pay an arbitrary 10% less.

Has anyone experience of negotiating recently? Are the big dealers such
as Sevenoaks even open to this? I've no interest in haing around and
trying things out, I just want to go in, and agree a price and then be
out with my new hi-fi.

Any thoughts, experiences or flames (if you must) appreciated.



Reminds me of a movie title - 'Man On Fire'...!! :-)

Doesn't make sense to me - you want a pile of 'expensive names' and yet you
want to be able to brag 'I got it cheap'....??

One kinda works against the other, doesn't it? Get real - shop around for
'good sounds for a lot less pounds' and save probably up to about a grand on
your proposed spend or just grab the kit you appear to have already chosen
and then at least you'll be able to say 'it weren't cheap, but it's worth
every penny' or somesuch...???

(Or am I missing summat?)

Thanks for all the replies, appreciated.

Doesn't make sense to me - you want a pile of 'expensive names' and yet you
want to be able to brag 'I got it cheap'....?

Firstly being a tightwad is nothing to brag about! But I do agree with
you to an extent. Its not the cost per se I object to, though it is a
lot of money for me. Its the "retail" price that bothers me. I don't
really want "dealer service" and I don't want to pay for it.

Of course £150 off £1500 isn't much compared to the savings of just
buying a £600 cheaper system. But it might well bug me for the next 10
years. Of course £150 over 10 years is even more inconsequential, but
I'd still rather keep it in my pocket.

Regarding auditioning...this is also a dilemma and does largely
undermine my thinking. I do know someone with the speakers I want, but
yes, I am largely relying on other people's opinions and reviews
regarding the Arcam stuff. (Ok, I admit I like the appearance of it too
and I am suckered in by their clever branding, but that's a thread in
itself.)

Maybe I should just grow up, go and have the salesman set up an
audition of some different brands and pay the full whack...

Mark

mark wrote:
Thanks for all the replies, appreciated.


Doesn't make sense to me - you want a pile of 'expensive names' and yet you
want to be able to brag 'I got it cheap'....?


Firstly being a tightwad is nothing to brag about! But I do agree with
you to an extent. Its not the cost per se I object to, though it is a
lot of money for me. Its the "retail" price that bothers me. I don't
really want "dealer service" and I don't want to pay for it.

Of course £150 off £1500 isn't much compared to the savings of just
buying a £600 cheaper system. But it might well bug me for the next 10
years. Of course £150 over 10 years is even more inconsequential, but
I'd still rather keep it in my pocket.

Regarding auditioning...this is also a dilemma and does largely
undermine my thinking. I do know someone with the speakers I want, but
yes, I am largely relying on other people's opinions and reviews
regarding the Arcam stuff. (Ok, I admit I like the appearance of it too
and I am suckered in by their clever branding, but that's a thread in
itself.)

Maybe I should just grow up, go and have the salesman set up an
audition of some different brands and pay the full whack...

Mark


Go to a dealer, get a demo, ask to take the kit home on a trial.
Normally this will involve swiping a credit card before you get out of
the shop with this kit.

If you decide you don't like it, bring it back, and its cost you nothing
but time, and has saved you from spending money on something you don't like.

If you do like it. Go back and make the dealer an offer. If he doesn't
like your offer, give the kit back, and you are no worst off, but at
least you have some kit you know you like. Then you can try and get the
same kit elsewhere for a discount. But given the kit has already left
his shop, he may be more inclined to offer a discount on it.

Of course, this could all fall down if they send you home with demo kit,
and not the new stuff you wanted to get the discount on.

--
Nick

Nick Gorham wrote:

Go to a dealer, get a demo, ask to take the kit home on a trial.
Normally this will involve swiping a credit card before you get out of
the shop with this kit.

If you decide you don't like it, bring it back, and its cost you nothing
but time, and has saved you from spending money on something you don't like.

If you do like it. Go back and make the dealer an offer. If he doesn't
like your offer, give the kit back, and you are no worst off, but at
least you have some kit you know you like. Then you can try and get the
same kit elsewhere for a discount. But given the kit has already left
his shop, he may be more inclined to offer a discount on it.

Of course, this could all fall down if they send you home with demo kit,
and not the new stuff you wanted to get the discount on.

--
Nick

this attitude is exactly why HIFI and HIFI dealers are dying. Don't
blame me when there are no shops left to dem at.

Tim wrote:
Nick Gorham wrote:


Go to a dealer, get a demo, ask to take the kit home on a trial.

Normally this will involve swiping a credit card before you get out of
the shop with this kit.

If you decide you don't like it, bring it back, and its cost you nothing
but time, and has saved you from spending money on something you don't like.

If you do like it. Go back and make the dealer an offer. If he doesn't
like your offer, give the kit back, and you are no worst off, but at
least you have some kit you know you like. Then you can try and get the
same kit elsewhere for a discount. But given the kit has already left
his shop, he may be more inclined to offer a discount on it.

Of course, this could all fall down if they send you home with demo kit,
and not the new stuff you wanted to get the discount on.

--
Nick


this attitude is exactly why HIFI and HIFI dealers are dying. Don't
blame me when there are no shops left to dem at.


1. Wouldn't worry me if there were no HiFi shops at all. I would be more
than happy personally if HiFi went back to being a DIY and small scale
interest it was before the 70's

2. No its not, I didn't say, get a dem, borrow the kit, take it back and
buy online. You may think I said that, but re-read it. What I said gave
the shop every chance to get a sale. if the shop did its job, the buyer
should want to give them money, and the idea of a discount will not seem
so important.

3. The reason that HiFi is dying is far more complex than that, most
people now don't seem to care what they listen too, and what it sounds
like.

--
Nick

"Tim" wrote in message
oups.com...

Nick Gorham wrote:

Go to a dealer, get a demo, ask to take the kit home on a trial.
Normally this will involve swiping a credit card before you get out of
the shop with this kit.

If you decide you don't like it, bring it back, and its cost you nothing
but time, and has saved you from spending money on something you don't
like.

If you do like it. Go back and make the dealer an offer. If he doesn't
like your offer, give the kit back, and you are no worst off, but at
least you have some kit you know you like. Then you can try and get the
same kit elsewhere for a discount. But given the kit has already left
his shop, he may be more inclined to offer a discount on it.

Of course, this could all fall down if they send you home with demo kit,
and not the new stuff you wanted to get the discount on.

--
Nick

this attitude is exactly why HIFI and HIFI dealers are dying. Don't
blame me when there are no shops left to dem at.



Why, what have you been up to? :-)

Anyway, who sez Hifi is dying? I think you will find it's only changing -
relatively good sound (in a digital/SS way) is no longer the province of
expensive specialists, it can be had from just about anywhere at just about
any price these days. Any dealer that can't match his methods to a changing
market will suffer, no matter what commodity he's handling.

The OP was effectively asking about getting a discount for a 'quick grab' in
lieu of the full dealer 'service' (demos and other meaningless ****ing
about) - IOW, he wanted the dealer to perform somewhat like a 'boxshifter'
in this instance. How can it hurt to ask? The dealer in question can only
tell him to **** off, can he not?

(Of course, the old 'We are not allowed to discout B&W goods' horse****
would/will be trotted out....)

Tim wrote:

this attitude is exactly why HIFI and HIFI dealers are dying. Don't
blame me when there are no shops left to dem at.

I understand the above point but it doesn't really apply to my rather
odd attitude. I didn't buy my last system in a shop 10 years ago, and
they seem to be doing ok without my rather, infrequent, frugal
business. Given the choice between being forced to paying list price or
not buying anything I might even see sense and keep what I've got.

Its not the price per se that bothers me, but the absence of
competition.

Anyway...despite the above I actually went in to a shop today. The sole
hi-fi shop in Sevenoaks, Kent. I was on my way home from work and
glancing at my reflection in the window as I entered I though it might
just have been conceivable to an uninformed observer that I might be in
the market to buy something.

None of the grown up salemen could be arsed to come down to the sales
floor and I was left with the work experience kid to answer my
questions. He had no idea how powerful the Arcam amp was but did tell
me it has some sort of special damping material used in a spaceship to
stop electrical interference moving about and messing with my music. I
asked why it was £150 cheaper than the discontinued model it replaced
but he said this one was much better. This may be true but I'm not
inclined to take his word for it.

The B&W speakers I was interested in weren't in stock but he did point
me to some smaller ones by the same manufacturer. He couldn't actually
be arsed to point them out so had to call out "left a bit" etc. which
made me feel a bit of a tool. Especially since they were right next to
another salesman's desk.

He then clumsily attempted to trade me up to some appropriately named
Spendor speakers about £500 over my budget. Also despite their website
advertising them, apparently they don't sell the Acoustic Energy
speakers I was considering.

The final nail in the coffin (and I had to try hard not to laugh) was
when he went the other way and showed me some sort of tiny bookshelf
speakers. I explained that my room is quite large, around 100m3 (its a
Victorian building with high ceilings) and he said, that's ok, you'd be
amazed how much sound they can throw out. I took his card and near ran
outside.

Rant over anyway. I'm sure there are far better shops independent shops
elsewhere, I might even try to find one. But after that experience any
qualms about negoitating when I've enjoyed "dealer service", at that
chain anyway, have evaporated.

What a miserable young git I am.

Mark

"mark" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks for all the replies, appreciated.

Doesn't make sense to me - you want a pile of 'expensive names' and yet
you
want to be able to brag 'I got it cheap'....?

Firstly being a tightwad is nothing to brag about! But I do agree with
you to an extent. Its not the cost per se I object to, though it is a
lot of money for me. Its the "retail" price that bothers me. I don't
really want "dealer service" and I don't want to pay for it.

Of course £150 off £1500 isn't much compared to the savings of just
buying a £600 cheaper system. But it might well bug me for the next 10
years. Of course £150 over 10 years is even more inconsequential, but
I'd still rather keep it in my pocket.

Regarding auditioning...this is also a dilemma and does largely
undermine my thinking. I do know someone with the speakers I want, but
yes, I am largely relying on other people's opinions and reviews
regarding the Arcam stuff. (Ok, I admit I like the appearance of it too
and I am suckered in by their clever branding, but that's a thread in
itself.)

Maybe I should just grow up, go and have the salesman set up an
audition of some different brands and pay the full whack...




I think I understand your dilemma - you have more or less decided on a stack
of gear and you want to say to the dealer 'I know what I want, just wheel
out the boxes, cut me a 'speedy spender' deal and I'll be gone in 60
seconds!' or somesuch? No?

If so, just say it!! Be *brave*!! :-)

Better by phone (non-confrontational) and do it any time now (post Christmas
drop-off) or leave it 'til high summer when the dealers are quiet. Phone on
a Tuesday or Wednesday afternoon when they have probably had an empty shop
and you'll be home pulling all that squeaky polystyrene off by teatime!!
You'll be happy as a dog with two dicks for about 6 months - until they
bring out the *new model* with the next number up and which purports to
'address all the issues' in the one you have just bought! ;-)

(Me? Assuming you're talking SS/digital - Amp, CD and DAB say, I'd pull the
thousand pounds off the front of that proposed spend for a start.....!! ;-)

Or......

See this stack?

This stack he

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/stack.JPG

It'll cost you about 210 (total) from Argos and you'll get 3 identical
remotes which will operate everything. Grab one and get a Dymo tape machine
to make some fancy labels to stick on each piece (I leave it up to you to
choose a sutable name) and then grab a pair of Living Voice Auditoriums

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~va...ivingVoice.htm

http://www.livingvoice.co.uk/auditorium.htm


and hook it all up.

Give it a week to settle in and then invite your mates round (the ones with
the ****ty mid-fi 'names') and see what they say....

(Then you can save up for your *killer stack* at your leisure - I suspect
you will be in no rush and the speakers will do you for life!! ;-)

I think I understand your dilemma - you have more or less decided on a stack
of gear and you want to say to the dealer 'I know what I want, just wheel
out the boxes, cut me a 'speedy spender' deal and I'll be gone in 60
seconds!' or somesuch? No?

Ok...I admit it, the above had crossed my mind.

This stack he

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/stack.JPG

It'll cost you about 210 (total) from Argos and you'll get 3 identical
remotes which will operate everything. Grab one and get a Dymo tape machine
to make some fancy labels to stick on each piece (I leave it up to you to
choose a sutable name) and then grab a pair of Living Voice Auditoriums

I'm slightly disturbed by your in depth knowledge of this "system",
Keith! ;-) Have you auditioned one yourself? Do you, dare I say it, own
one? Three remotes...I'm sorely tempted.

The Living Voices are a bit over my speaker budget but they do look
sure to impress my mates, and my 12 year old Mordaunts are getting a
bit long in the tooth. Do you think they can handle the output from the
Argos rig though? ;-) I'd hate to think they weren't doing it
justice...

Actually, more seriously, I'm looking at an Arcam CD73, an Arcam A70
amp...and possibly some B&W 603 S3s. Can't stretch to anything fancy
like a tuner.

With any luck I might get bored with the idea soon and be able to go on
holiday instead...

Mark