"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:
"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...

Keith G wrote:


I understand (his wife told me) that T De P brought out both ss and
valve versions of an amp that were *sonically indistinguishable* from
each other to cater for 'lady musicians' (was the phrase) who were
alarmed by the heat and palaver of valve stuff! Both hideously
expensive, I gather, which is the whole point of valves - you get the
better sound for actually a lot less money at the budget end of the
spectrum!


Ok, but every time I read anything that TDP has written or said I get the
feeling that its all hype/********/misdirection (your choice).




I have only had personal experience of a couple of minor EAR products -
the 834P and L, both of which were not ridiculously overpriced at the
time when compared to other makes. As you know, the phono isn't
marvellous but it's a reasonable introduction to valve phono stages at
the price level and the line stage worked well enough (and was solidly
built) but didn't do the sound any favours at all - M could always tell
when it was in the loop and said it sounded 'blurry', I always thought it
sounded 'grey' but wondered if that might not be the Mullards I had in
it...???

I worded my post to include what he said/wrote and not the performance of
his products, as I have only heard a few of them, but all the things I
have read from him match how I described them.

Nothing more.



OK, but it was hardly germaine to the preceding thread, I merely used my
reply to you to further my own observations in respect to the thread
generally - I have never read anything from T de P (as as I can remember)
myself, so I can't comment other than to report my own somewhat limited
experience of EAR products.

FWIW, I suspect (but I don't *know*) that there's as much **** spread about
T de P and his products as there is often claimed that he, himself, spreads
about them, due to widespread 'professional jealousy' and 'commercial
envy'....??

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:
"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...

Keith G wrote:


I understand (his wife told me) that T De P brought out both ss and
valve versions of an amp that were *sonically indistinguishable* from
each other to cater for 'lady musicians' (was the phrase) who were
alarmed by the heat and palaver of valve stuff! Both hideously
expensive, I gather, which is the whole point of valves - you get the
better sound for actually a lot less money at the budget end of the
spectrum!


Ok, but every time I read anything that TDP has written or said I get
the feeling that its all hype/********/misdirection (your choice).




I have only had personal experience of a couple of minor EAR products -
the 834P and L, both of which were not ridiculously overpriced at the
time when compared to other makes. As you know, the phono isn't
marvellous but it's a reasonable introduction to valve phono stages at
the price level and the line stage worked well enough (and was solidly
built) but didn't do the sound any favours at all - M could always tell
when it was in the loop and said it sounded 'blurry', I always thought
it sounded 'grey' but wondered if that might not be the Mullards I had
in it...???

I worded my post to include what he said/wrote and not the performance of
his products, as I have only heard a few of them, but all the things I
have read from him match how I described them.

Nothing more.



OK, but it was hardly germaine to the preceding thread, I merely used my
reply to you to further my own observations in respect to the thread
generally - I have never read anything from T de P (as as I can remember)
myself, so I can't comment other than to report my own somewhat limited
experience of EAR products.

FWIW, I suspect (but I don't *know*) that there's as much **** spread
about T de P and his products as there is often claimed that he, himself,
spreads about them, due to widespread 'professional jealousy' and
'commercial envy'....??



Nothing succeeds like success:-)
Good luck to the man. People speak highly of his products.
He certainly seems to have a flair for publicity also.

Iain

Nick Gorham wrote:
Keith G wrote:
"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...

Keith G wrote:


I understand (his wife told me) that T De P brought out both ss and
valve versions of an amp that were *sonically indistinguishable*
from each other to cater for 'lady musicians' (was the phrase) who
were alarmed by the heat and palaver of valve stuff! Both hideously
expensive, I gather, which is the whole point of valves - you get
the better sound for actually a lot less money at the budget end of
the spectrum!


Ok, but every time I read anything that TDP has written or said I get
the feeling that its all hype/********/misdirection (your choice).




I have only had personal experience of a couple of minor EAR products
- the 834P and L, both of which were not ridiculously overpriced at
the time when compared to other makes. As you know, the phono isn't
marvellous but it's a reasonable introduction to valve phono stages at
the price level and the line stage worked well enough (and was solidly
built) but didn't do the sound any favours at all - M could always
tell when it was in the loop and said it sounded 'blurry', I always
thought it sounded 'grey' but wondered if that might not be the
Mullards I had in it...???

I worded my post to include what he said/wrote and not the performance
of his products, as I have only heard a few of them, but all the things
I have read from him match how I described them.

Nothing more.


I've got an 834P phono, paid about 200UKP S/H, and I like it a lot. Only
criticisms are a slight bass 'lift' and a daft difficult-to-see on/off
arrangement - I left it on for a week once ;-). Oh, and needless to say,
it has a noisy left channel until nudged about a bit. Couple of
amusing/informative links:

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=vinyl&m=108318

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/...postID=365#365

825UKP new is silly though.

Rob

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i...

"Keith G" wrote


FWIW, I suspect (but I don't *know*) that there's as much **** spread
about T de P and his products as there is often claimed that he, himself,
spreads about them, due to widespread 'professional jealousy' and
'commercial envy'....??



Nothing succeeds like success:-)
Good luck to the man. People speak highly of his products.
He certainly seems to have a flair for publicity also.



People tend to forget or overlook that he did a lot of good (?) work for
people like Lux in Nippon a few decades ago - I have no beef with or about
him, but unfortunately at the price I am unlikely to try any of his more
expensive products for myself!

Comes back to what I've been saying all along - a lot more people will have
a scary punt at valves at the Chinese price levels, which is almost 1/10th
that of stuff like the upper EAR range:

http://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/default....ufacturerID=19

!!??

(Me? I'm waiting for your 300B SET when you've got one ready to go - mebbe I
could more easily afford one of them if you let me have it *trade*...?? :-)

"Rob" wrote


I've got an 834P phono, paid about 200UKP S/H, and I like it a lot. Only
criticisms are a slight bass 'lift' and a daft difficult-to-see on/off
arrangement - I left it on for a week once ;-).


Chicken head knobs will help you avoid this - I swapped them onto both my
EAR bits (and back off again when I sold them), but global-waming ussues
aside, the EAR is designed to be left on 24/7 with no ill effect, I
gather....



Oh, and needless to say,
it has a noisy left channel until nudged about a bit.


Clean yer pins!!


Couple of
amusing/informative links:

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=vinyl&m=108318

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/...postID=365#365

825UKP new is silly though.


Yes, interesting - I think the phrase 'turd polishing' is a bit harsh, but I
would say (personal experience again) the EAR phono can't hold a candle to
the then WAD Phono II which has a separate power supply (essential in my
book). I believe there is a new one due out soon from the new 'World
Designs' company which is risen (all Phoenix-like) from the steaming ashes
of WAD - maybe it'll be even better??

(But be quick - I don't see 'WD' surviving much longer than WAD did! ;-)

Keith G wrote:
"Rob" wrote


I've got an 834P phono, paid about 200UKP S/H, and I like it a lot. Only
criticisms are a slight bass 'lift' and a daft difficult-to-see on/off
arrangement - I left it on for a week once ;-).


Chicken head knobs will help you avoid this - I swapped them onto both my
EAR bits (and back off again when I sold them), but global-waming ussues
aside, the EAR is designed to be left on 24/7 with no ill effect, I
gather....


Yep, must do the knob change (as it were). 24/7 - OK, makes me feel a
bit better :-)


Oh, and needless to say,
it has a noisy left channel until nudged about a bit.


Clean yer pins!!


I've tried most fettle solutions, including valves, but there's this
hiss from one channel from time to time. Not audible from a distance,
but is something on the to do list.


Couple of
amusing/informative links:

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=vinyl&m=108318

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/...postID=365#365

825UKP new is silly though.


Yes, interesting - I think the phrase 'turd polishing' is a bit harsh, but I
would say (personal experience again) the EAR phono can't hold a candle to
the then WAD Phono II which has a separate power supply (essential in my
book).

He certainly seems to generate opinions, in both 'his' design ideas and
personality. I can't say - the only hifi industry bod that ever annoyed
me was Ivor wosisname Linn - banned unions, arrogantly nicked ideas and
an all round unpleasant character (apparently).


I believe there is a new one due out soon from the new 'World
Designs' company which is risen (all Phoenix-like) from the steaming ashes
of WAD - maybe it'll be even better??

(But be quick - I don't see 'WD' surviving much longer than WAD did! ;-)


I did try to order one when WAD were alive - by phone and the web. On
the phone he promised to get back to me (never did), on the web the
order page kept returning errors. The new WD stuff looks good - but no
phono.

If anyone knows of a tried/tested valve MC/MM kit that comes with all
the bits (including a PCB - don't fancy that point-to-point stuff)
please tell ...

Rob

"Rob" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:
"Rob" wrote


I've got an 834P phono, paid about 200UKP S/H, and I like it a lot. Only
criticisms are a slight bass 'lift' and a daft difficult-to-see on/off
arrangement - I left it on for a week once ;-).


Chicken head knobs will help you avoid this - I swapped them onto both my
EAR bits (and back off again when I sold them), but global-waming ussues
aside, the EAR is designed to be left on 24/7 with no ill effect, I
gather....


Yep, must do the knob change (as it were).



Let me know if you need one and I'll put one in a Jiffy bag, I've got a
bunch of them - as per:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/ear834p.JPG



24/7 - OK, makes me feel a
bit better :-)


Plenty would argue these things are best left on 24/7 anyway, but I can't
reconcile this with the 'global warming' concerns which (for once) I believe
are very real!!




Oh, and needless to say,
it has a noisy left channel until nudged about a bit.


Clean yer pins!!


I've tried most fettle solutions, including valves, but there's this hiss
from one channel from time to time. Not audible from a distance, but is
something on the to do list.


Hmm, OK - perhaps there's a little, tiny snake in there somewhere...??

:-)



Yes, interesting - I think the phrase 'turd polishing' is a bit harsh,
but I would say (personal experience again) the EAR phono can't hold a
candle to the then WAD Phono II which has a separate power supply
(essential in my book).

He certainly seems to generate opinions, in both 'his' design ideas and
personality. I can't say - the only hifi industry bod that ever annoyed me
was Ivor wosisname Linn - banned unions, arrogantly nicked ideas and an
all round unpleasant character (apparently).


Oops!

*cue Pinky*

:-)




I believe there is a new one due out soon from the new 'World
Designs' company which is risen (all Phoenix-like) from the steaming
ashes of WAD - maybe it'll be even better??

(But be quick - I don't see 'WD' surviving much longer than WAD did! ;-)


I did try to order one when WAD were alive - by phone and the web. On the
phone he promised to get back to me (never did), on the web the order page
kept returning errors. The new WD stuff looks good - but no phono.


OK, I thought one was on the horizon....??



If anyone knows of a tried/tested valve MC/MM kit that comes with all the
bits (including a PCB - don't fancy that point-to-point stuff) please tell
...


There's always the Chinky stuff on eBay...??

This one's cheap atm, but the postage ain't too tiny:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MS-12B-MM-MC-C...QQcmdZViewItem


Here's another - postage isn't too bad if you can wait for a small eternity
to get i:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HI-END-NEW-200...QQcmdZViewItem


Are they any good? No idea, I ain't ever heard one - this is where you have
to go by your own instincts and cross ya fingers!

Talking of eBay, I'd better get off - I'm winning no less than 6 items atm,
I'd better get on watch!! :-)

Rob wrote:


I did try to order one when WAD were alive - by phone and the web. On
the phone he promised to get back to me (never did), on the web the
order page kept returning errors. The new WD stuff looks good - but no
phono.

If anyone knows of a tried/tested valve MC/MM kit that comes with all
the bits (including a PCB - don't fancy that point-to-point stuff)
please tell ...

Rob

The WD one will be ready very soon now, the power supply and pre have
been in the mag, the phono will be next. Give them a call and ask.
Having met Peter a couple of times now its clear he has a different view
on how to make the company a success than the last owners (not that its
the same company in fact).

It (and its power supply) are PCB based.

--
Nick

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

Anybody considering a commercial venture of any kind needs to know that
(outside of intangibles like 'skill' and ingenuity) the costs of the
workforce, vehicles, plant & machinery, premises and raw materials *will*
dictate unit cost price, but competition will dictate the ultimate selling
price - thus any competitor that has a significant advantage in any of
those cost areas stands a greater chance of succeeding/surviving in a
marketplace where he has no monopoly...!!

And yet you expect people here in the West to to repair Chinese amps for
a bowl of rice:-))

Valve audio is a niche market, served by a small number of
boutique builders. With the exception of the Chinese, there
is no mass production any more - nor is there ever likely to
be again.

But, people who are planning to spend say 30k on a system,
are not too concerned whether choice A is a little cheaper than
choice B. They pick the one they prefer and the flexible friend
looks after the rest:-)

For this reason, I think that the future of hand crafted tube amps,
like hand-made furniture, or small-volume specialist cars, is not
threatened by anything Chinese.


Factor in also that a lot of the 'Eastern' competition in many areas (call
centres, to name but one) receives serious Government assistance/subsidy
to run their businesses while here in Good Old Blighty you can only depend
on being shafted at every opportunity and saddled with ruinous legislation
heavily loaded in favour of the weakest link in your workforce,
irrespective of any company's capability to pay for the necessary
implementation!!

Wouldn't know about that, Sor.

:-))

Iain

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

Anybody considering a commercial venture of any kind needs to know that
(outside of intangibles like 'skill' and ingenuity) the costs of the
workforce, vehicles, plant & machinery, premises and raw materials *will*
dictate unit cost price, but competition will dictate the ultimate
selling
price - thus any competitor that has a significant advantage in any of
those cost areas stands a greater chance of succeeding/surviving in a
marketplace where he has no monopoly...!!

And yet you expect people here in the West to to repair Chinese amps for
a bowl of rice:-))



No, I expect you to import foreigners and get them to do it for ****-all -
we've got an order in for a couple of million Rumanians, due any time now...

Or, alternatively, quote long turn-round times and stack the work for 'Bob A
Job Week' and get some Scouts to do it for a new woggle or summat!



Valve audio is a niche market, served by a small number of
boutique builders. With the exception of the Chinese, there
is no mass production any more - nor is there ever likely to
be again.

But, people who are planning to spend say 30k on a system,
are not too concerned whether choice A is a little cheaper than
choice B. They pick the one they prefer and the flexible friend
looks after the rest:-)

For this reason, I think that the future of hand crafted tube amps,
like hand-made furniture, or small-volume specialist cars, is not
threatened by anything Chinese.



Gawd Iain, you're not listening - *any* commercial enterprise needs a steady
cashlow unless it has massive reserves. Sitting around for 6 months waiting
for a wealthy idiot to wander in is *not* going to work!! Eating is directly
linked to your takings and overheads are there every damn month whether
you've had a result or not - you know that!!



Factor in also that a lot of the 'Eastern' competition in many areas
(call
centres, to name but one) receives serious Government assistance/subsidy
to run their businesses while here in Good Old Blighty you can only
depend
on being shafted at every opportunity and saddled with ruinous
legislation
heavily loaded in favour of the weakest link in your workforce,
irrespective of any company's capability to pay for the necessary
implementation!!

Wouldn't know about that, Sor.

:-))


I bloody do and so did just about every major manufacturing industry - cars
and boats and planes, to name but one famous line from a song....!!