While we wait....
 

OK, don't know about you lot but I'm just about done with checking here to
find nothing doing, so here are some new words and phrases for 2007 to amuse
you while we wait for summat (anything?) from Plowie's Blog*:





TESTICULATING. Waving your arms around and talking ********.



BLAMESTORMING. Sitting around in a group, discussing why a deadline was
missed or a project failed and who was responsible.



SEAGULL MANAGER. A manager, who flies in, makes a lot of noise, craps on
everything and then leaves.



ASSMOSIS. The process by which people seem to absorb success and advancement
by sucking up to the boss rather than working hard.



SALMON DAY. The experience of spending an entire day swimming upstream only
to get screwed and die.



CUBE FARM. An office filled with cubicles.



PRAIRIE DOGGING. When someone yells or drops something loudly in a cube farm
and people's heads pop up over the walls to see that's going on. (This also
applies to applause for a promotion because there may be cake.)



SITCOMs. Single Income, Two Children, Oppressive Mortgage. (What Yuppies
turn into when they have children and one of them stops working to stay home
with the kids or start a "home business".)



SINBAD. Single working girl. (Single Income, No Boyfriend And Desperate.)



STRESS PUPPY. A person who seems to thrive on being stressed out and whiny.



PERCUSSIVE MAINTENANCE. The fine art of whacking the crap out of an
electronic device to get it to work again.



ADMINISPHERE. The rarefied organisational layers beginning just above the
rank and file. Decisions that fall from the "adminisphere" are often
profoundly inappropriate or irrelevant to the problems they were designed to
solve. This is often affiliated with the dreaded "Administrivia" - needless
paperwork and processes.



404. Someone who's clueless. From the World Wide Web error message "404 Not
Found" meaning that the requested document could not be located.



OHNOSECOND. That minuscule fraction of time in which you realize that you've
just made a BIG mistake (e.g. you've hit 'reply all')



GOING FOR A McPOO. Entering a fast food restaurant with no intention of
buying food, you're just going to the bog. (If challenged by a pimply staff
member, your declaration to them that you'll buy their food afterwards is
known as a 'McPOO with Lies'.)



AEROPLANE BLONDE. One who has bleached/dyed her hair but still has a 'black
box'.



AUSSIE KISS. Similar to a French Kiss, but given down under.



BEER COAT. The invisible but warm coat worn when walking home after a booze
cruise at 3am.



BEER COMPASS. The invisible device that ensures your safe arrival home after
booze cruise, even though you're too drunk to remember where you live, how
you got here and where you've come from.



GREYHOUND. A very short skirt, only an inch from the hare.



MILLENNIUM DOMES. The contents of a Wonderbra, i.e. extremely impressive
when viewed from the outside, but there's actually naught in there worth
seeing.



MONKEY BATH. A bath so hot, that when lowering yourself in, you
go:"Oo!Oo!Oo! Aa!Aa!Aa!".



MYSTERY BUS. The bus that arrives at the pub on Friday night while you're in
the toilet after your 10th pint, and whisks away all the unattractive people
so the pub is suddenly packed with stunners when you come back out.



MYSTERY TAXI. The taxi that arrives at your place on Saturday morning before
you wake up, whisks away the stunner you slept with, and leaves a 10-Pinter
in your bed instead.



PICASSO BUM. A woman whose knickers are too small for her, so she looks like
she's got four buttocks.



SALAD DODGER. An overweight person.



TART FUEL. Bottled premixed spirits, regularly consumed by young women.





* I stopped blogging like he wanted me to, now we got *SFA* in here - OK by
me, if that's how it is, but I ain't gonna hang around a stone-dead ng for
much longer....???

While we wait....
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

snip

GOING FOR A McPOO. Entering a fast food restaurant with no intention of
buying food, you're just going to the bog. (If challenged by a pimply
staff
member, your declaration to them that you'll buy their food afterwards is
known as a 'McPOO with Lies'.)

I've previously heard this one called a "McSplurry"!

While we wait....
 

"Bondee" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

snip

GOING FOR A McPOO. Entering a fast food restaurant with no intention of
buying food, you're just going to the bog. (If challenged by a pimply
staff
member, your declaration to them that you'll buy their food afterwards is
known as a 'McPOO with Lies'.)

I've previously heard this one called a "McSplurry"!




No-eyed deer - that list was sent to me from the wag who recently first
bought my EAR 'line stage slurrifier' and then my Visaton OB speakers and
who has since regaled me with a string of gags, movie clips, excellent
*proper* smoked bacon and *real* sausages ever since...!!

;-)

While we wait....
 

"Bondee" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

snip

GOING FOR A McPOO. Entering a fast food restaurant with no intention of
buying food, you're just going to the bog. (If challenged by a pimply
staff
member, your declaration to them that you'll buy their food afterwards is
known as a 'McPOO with Lies'.)

I've previously heard this one called a "McSplurry"!

I thought that one was for when you need a bit more fibre in your diet!

While we wait....
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...


OK, don't know about you lot but I'm just about done with checking here to
find nothing doing, ..........


We're all too busy fixing the miriads of Chinese valve amps
that seem to have been dumped on Europe and Scandinavia:-)

I have a fixed bias PP amp on my bench that has 10mm
skeleton pots for bias adjustment.

The owner who imported it directly, told me that it
worked only at very low power when it arrived, so
thinking it had been damaged in transit, he took it
to a local TV repair chap. He soon found the problem,
there was, and never had been, no connection between
the bottom end of the OPT secondary and the ground
terminal:-(

It looks like there might be an opportunity for someone
repairing these amps on a regular basis, to make
good money. At least there is an assured constant supply
of work. The trouble is, you can't spend much more
than an hour max, or the repair has cost half of the price
of the amp:-)

I have seen several of these now. They all bear a remarkable
similarity and have a generic PCB which can be used for
any number of different versions. Fiendishly cunning these
Chinese:-)

Regards to all
Iain

While we wait....
 

Iain Churches wrote:
"Keith G" wrote in message
...


OK, don't know about you lot but I'm just about done with checking here to
find nothing doing, ..........



We're all too busy fixing the miriads of Chinese valve amps
that seem to have been dumped on Europe and Scandinavia:-)

I have a fixed bias PP amp on my bench that has 10mm
skeleton pots for bias adjustment.

The owner who imported it directly, told me that it
worked only at very low power when it arrived, so
thinking it had been damaged in transit, he took it
to a local TV repair chap. He soon found the problem,
there was, and never had been, no connection between
the bottom end of the OPT secondary and the ground
terminal:-(

?

Do you mean the secondary wasn't connected to the LS terminal, or it
just wasn't grounded? the former should result in no output at all, and
the latter should make no difference to the output.


It looks like there might be an opportunity for someone
repairing these amps on a regular basis, to make
good money. At least there is an assured constant supply
of work. The trouble is, you can't spend much more
than an hour max, or the repair has cost half of the price
of the amp:-)

I have seen several of these now. They all bear a remarkable
similarity and have a generic PCB which can be used for
any number of different versions. Fiendishly cunning these
Chinese:-)


Hmm, I just fixed one that had a valve rectifier that was designed to
drive into a max of 4uf, and it was using 100uf. Oddly, the rectifier
had failed. The amp was only earthed via its phono sockets (the IEC
earth was unconnected) and it oscillated at 60Khz when running.

Apart from that, it was a cracker :-) (other than it didn't sound very
nice).

--
Nick

While we wait....
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...


OK, don't know about you lot but I'm just about done with checking here
to
find nothing doing, ..........


We're all too busy fixing the miriads of Chinese valve amps
that seem to have been dumped on Europe and Scandinavia:-)


'Miriads'....???

No-one's buying them then...??

;-)




I have a fixed bias PP amp on my bench that has 10mm
skeleton pots for bias adjustment.

The owner who imported it directly, told me that it
worked only at very low power when it arrived, so
thinking it had been damaged in transit, he took it
to a local TV repair chap. He soon found the problem,
there was, and never had been, no connection between
the bottom end of the OPT secondary and the ground
terminal:-(

It looks like there might be an opportunity for someone
repairing these amps on a regular basis, to make
good money. At least there is an assured constant supply
of work. The trouble is, you can't spend much more
than an hour max, or the repair has cost half of the price
of the amp:-)


Check my previous posts on the subject - I have always said to consider that
they might need a little attention from time to time and maybe not buy one
if you can't fettle it yourself!! Even paying some primadonna's price for an
hour's work to sort one out wouldn't make it cost a fraction of a 'Western'
price - how long before there are realistically-priced *specialists* in
Chinky amp repairs, if there's as many about as you claim?

(How Long?? Do you think he and Wun Hung Lo might start summat up? :-)

But what does it prove? Shiny Nigel's EAR 834P phono (same price as a Chinky
300B SET) went tits-up in about a week from brand new....



I have seen several of these now. They all bear a remarkable
similarity and have a generic PCB which can be used for
any number of different versions. Fiendishly cunning these
Chinese:-)


No PCB in my Chinky (which does play up occasionally) - all I have to do is
shove it in the cupboard for a few weeks and it usually comes out with a
better frame of mind on.....

;-)

While we wait....
 

"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
. uk...
Iain Churches wrote:

I have a fixed bias PP amp on my bench that has 10mm
skeleton pots for bias adjustment.

The owner who imported it directly, told me that it
worked only at very low power when it arrived, so
thinking it had been damaged in transit, he took it
to a local TV repair chap. He soon found the problem,
there was, and never had been, no connection between
the bottom end of the OPT secondary and the ground
terminal:-(

?

Do you mean the secondary wasn't connected to the LS terminal, or it just
wasn't grounded? the former should result in no output at all, and the
latter should make no difference to the output.

As I inderstand it, the latter. The output was apparently very low.

Hmm, I just fixed one that had a valve rectifier that was designed to
drive into a max of 4uf, and it was using 100uf.

Yes that's another common design fault. The reservoir cap is often
220µF.

Oddly, the rectifier had failed. The amp was only earthed via its phono
sockets (the IEC earth was unconnected) and it oscillated at 60Khz when
running.

So low (or no) stability margin. The oscilaltion can be cured with a
Zobel network. But one should really find the cause:-)



Apart from that, it was a cracker :-)

Aren't they all? :-)

(other than it didn't sound very
nice).

I can'd descide if the appearance of these things is a good or
bad thing. It shows that there is clearly an interest in thermionic
audio, buit the Chinese experience may not be a positive one for
so many hopeful people.

Iain

While we wait....
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...


Check my previous posts on the subject - I have always said to consider
that they might need a little attention from time to time and maybe not
buy one if you can't fettle it yourself!!

The basic problems are with the transformers.
Nothing to fettle there. If you want an improvement,
they should be changed. That's costly.

Even paying some primadonna's price for an hour's work to sort one out
wouldn't make it cost a fraction of a 'Western' price - how long before
there are realistically-priced *specialists* in Chinky amp repairs, if
there's as many about as you claim?

In the EU, you cannot expect a service tech to work
for a bowl of rice a day. From the amount he invoices,
he has to pay social costs, taxes, VAT, rent etc etc.
So it ain't cheap:-) You have had your own business
Keith, so you know all about "overheads" :-)

The availability of these amps has been timed nicely
with the renewed interest in tube audio. Rather like
the Lada Niva, when people living in wintery climates
began to see the advantage of 4WD. The Niva was about
a quarter the price of the cheapest and most basic LandRover,
and made a huge dent in LandRover sales, but only very
short term.

(How Long?? Do you think he and Wun Hung Lo might start summat up? :-)

My feeling is, that once these things are established,
the prices, and thus the quality will improve. Then the
EU and US makers will really be facing a challenge.
But if the current situation continues, people who
have burned their fingers will not be too ready to
take a chance on a Chinky Poo again.

But, it's just Yorkshire commonsense really,
Don't expect owt for nowt:-)

But what does it prove? Shiny Nigel's EAR 834P phono (same price as a
Chinky 300B SET) went tits-up in about a week from brand new....

That can happen with any piece of equipment.
Many of the bespoke tube amp builders are now
offering a 5 year warranty, to underline their faith
in the quality of their products. I know one who includes
a 2yr service check, at a very reasonable price, and if
the maintenance is carried out as per schedule, and
tubes re baissed, and repalced as necessary, there is
no reason why a ten year warranty could not be
offered. Remember Rolls Royce's life time guarantee?
They don't promise the car will just go on and on without
service, but when scheduled maintenance is carried out,
and parts changed before they are worn or broken then
they can promise trouble free motoring with a degree
of confidence.

No PCB in my Chinky (which does play up occasionally) - all I have to do
is shove it in the cupboard for a few weeks and it usually comes out with
a better frame of mind on.....

Point to point is probably the worst of all the
alternatives for predictable performance in a Chinky tube amp.
The Chinese, invented pyrotechnics and also birdsnest
soup:-)

Regards to all
Iain

While we wait....
 

Iain Churches wrote:


So low (or no) stability margin. The oscilaltion can be cured with a
Zobel network. But one should really find the cause:-)



It was fixed by adding the 220p cap across the feedback resistor the
circuit diag showed but wasn't fitted, maybe to improve the HF response.

I think the main cause was the crap output TX's having too much phase
shift at HF :-).

--
Nick

While we wait....
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...


Check my previous posts on the subject - I have always said to consider
that they might need a little attention from time to time and maybe not
buy one if you can't fettle it yourself!!

The basic problems are with the transformers.
Nothing to fettle there. If you want an improvement,
they should be changed. That's costly.


Goes for anything - see your own 'owt for nowt' remark! No-one in his right
mind is expecting the *best* for the cheapest price. I have had 4 Chinese
amps (2 identical) through my hands and they have all been more than
satisfactory for what they cost - I'm not on commission and don't care
whether people buy Chinese amps or not. I have said before, I have my own
reservations about trade with China and would personally like to see/hear
more about improved Animal and Human Rights (in that order)....



Even paying some primadonna's price for an hour's work to sort one out
wouldn't make it cost a fraction of a 'Western' price - how long before
there are realistically-priced *specialists* in Chinky amp repairs, if
there's as many about as you claim?

In the EU, you cannot expect a service tech to work
for a bowl of rice a day. From the amount he invoices,
he has to pay social costs, taxes, VAT, rent etc etc.
So it ain't cheap:-) You have had your own business
Keith, so you know all about "overheads" :-)


Just a tad....



The availability of these amps has been timed nicely
with the renewed interest in tube audio. Rather like
the Lada Niva, when people living in wintery climates
began to see the advantage of 4WD. The Niva was about
a quarter the price of the cheapest and most basic LandRover,
and made a huge dent in LandRover sales, but only very
short term.



I think the first real nail in Land Rover's coffin was the footage a few
years ago of Princess Horse sitting in one that had gone phut in the middle
of an African river and was being pushed out by a Toyota!

(Apparently, lip readers clearly identified her muttering the phrase 'Fukk'n
POS'...?? :-)



(How Long?? Do you think he and Wun Hung Lo might start summat up? :-)

My feeling is, that once these things are established,
the prices, and thus the quality will improve. Then the
EU and US makers will really be facing a challenge.
But if the current situation continues, people who
have burned their fingers will not be too ready to
take a chance on a Chinky Poo again.


You are pounding a drum that makes no sound to me - repeat, I have personal
experience of only 4 of these amps but they *all* performed satisfactorily
at least!

Give this a spin:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...icfrenesiC.mp3


That's the Bez 300B SET - does that sound so ****ed to you...???

(Allowing for the temporary tt setup and it being an open mic recording, of
course....)



But, it's just Yorkshire commonsense really,
Don't expect owt for nowt:-)


See above....



But what does it prove? Shiny Nigel's EAR 834P phono (same price as a
Chinky 300B SET) went tits-up in about a week from brand new....

That can happen with any piece of equipment.
Many of the bespoke tube amp builders are now
offering a 5 year warranty, to underline their faith
in the quality of their products. I know one who includes
a 2yr service check, at a very reasonable price, and if
the maintenance is carried out as per schedule, and
tubes re baissed, and repalced as necessary, there is
no reason why a ten year warranty could not be
offered. Remember Rolls Royce's life time guarantee?
They don't promise the car will just go on and on without
service, but when scheduled maintenance is carried out,
and parts changed before they are worn or broken then
they can promise trouble free motoring with a degree
of confidence.


And at a considerable price - even running a Jag (or BMW, Merc, SAAB, &c.)
is hugely expensive compared with the modern Jap/Korean runarounds.

Don't be the London Underground stationer who spends half of every working
day telling people there's no demand for fountain pens, Iain - embrace these
Chinese amps amd become Scandinavia's *Premiere* repairer and restorer of
them. Import Chinese technicians, if you need to, to cope with the workload
if there's as many as you say! (Works for Bernard Matthews.... ;-)

Who knows, each one that brings an amp in might go out a future customer for
one of your own products, if you can demonstrate the extra cost is
justified...??

I think the Chinese thing will probably boil over fairly soon, but until it
does the view of certain products from China is pretty much like the view of
Jap products (motorbikes in particular) in the UK, in the 60s. Except that
the rate of acceptance is much faster - who TF cares what name is on their
telly, computer/computer monitor &c. these days and who is in the least bit
surprised to see a 'Made In China' somewhere on the article or packaging?



No PCB in my Chinky (which does play up occasionally) - all I have to do
is shove it in the cupboard for a few weeks and it usually comes out with
a better frame of mind on.....

Point to point is probably the worst of all the
alternatives for predictable performance in a Chinky tube amp.
The Chinese, invented pyrotechnics and also birdsnest
soup:-)


Here's a few snaps of the only Chinese valve amp I have left (sold the
others with almost zero effort) so you can at least see summat of what it
looks like. Note the trannies are at least substantial and the 'mare's nest'
is no worse than any other P2P wiring I have seen:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Bez01.JPG

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Bez02.JPG

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Bez03.JPG

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Bez04.JPG


For what it cost (compared to Western prices for the same 'spec.') I
consider that I've already had my money's worth from it, it outperforms (in
sound quality terms) any other amp I have here and the day I can't cure any
tantrums with a smart rap from a stick or a couple of week's 'solitary
confinement' is the day Nick'll get a return visit from me! ;-)

(Unless I flogged it on....!! ;-)

While we wait....
 

Keith G wrote:


Here's a few snaps of the only Chinese valve amp I have left (sold the
others with almost zero effort) so you can at least see summat of what it
looks like. Note the trannies are at least substantial and the 'mare's nest'
is no worse than any other P2P wiring I have seen:


Just one point, whilst the TX's look "substantial" they do look to be
wound on laminations that look thick enough for a mains TX, I would have
likes to have seen thinner stock used. But as you say, can't expect too
much for the price.

As it happens, I am working on a 300b design/breadboard at the moment
and I may have to raise my opinion of how good the 300b can sound
upwards somewhat, though the power supply looks somewhat more like a
small AM transmitter than anything else at the moment :-)

--
Nick

While we wait....
 

"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:


Here's a few snaps of the only Chinese valve amp I have left (sold the
others with almost zero effort) so you can at least see summat of what it
looks like. Note the trannies are at least substantial and the 'mare's
nest' is no worse than any other P2P wiring I have seen:


Just one point, whilst the TX's look "substantial" they do look to be
wound on laminations that look thick enough for a mains TX, I would have
likes to have seen thinner stock used. But as you say, can't expect too
much for the price.



Quite, but if you like 'Chinese Agricultural' at (presumably appropriate)
prices, the Bez site has some incredible old bits and pieces on it! It's a
very difficult and slow site to navigate, but if you've got a quick enough
connection, try some of the funny little hyperlinks on these pages for a
sort of 'Pot Luck'!!

Amps: http://www.bezdz.com/cpj1.htm

Trannies: http://www.bezdz.com/byq.htm

Speakers: http://www.bezdz.com/cj.htm

Valves: http://www.bezdz.com/dzg.htm




As it happens, I am working on a 300b design/breadboard at the moment and
I may have to raise my opinion of how good the 300b can sound upwards
somewhat, though the power supply looks somewhat more like a small AM
transmitter than anything else at the moment :-)




Interesting - a seriously chunky PS can't be a bad place to start, can it?
:-)

While we wait....
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...


Check my previous posts on the subject - I have always said to consider
that they might need a little attention from time to time and maybe not
buy one if you can't fettle it yourself!!

The basic problems are with the transformers.
Nothing to fettle there. If you want an improvement,
they should be changed. That's costly.


Goes for anything - see your own 'owt for nowt' remark! No-one in his
right mind is expecting the *best* for the cheapest price. I have had 4
Chinese amps (2 identical) through my hands and they have all been more
than satisfactory for what they cost - I'm not on commission and don't
care whether people buy Chinese amps or not. I have said before, I have my
own reservations about trade with China and would personally like to
see/hear more about improved Animal and Human Rights (in that order)....

Hi Keith,

In actual fact, while they are running, the Chinese valve amps
work pretty well, and compare favourably with something SS
of an equally silly price.



It is difficult for the average owner, at least in this part
of the world to know where to take such an amp. TV repair
shops won't usually touch them, and hifi dealers don't seem
to want to be troubled with something that was not bought
from them. So once they fail, they are offered in part
exchange for something better (and hopefully thermionic:-)


You are pounding a drum that makes no sound to me - repeat, I have
personal experience of only 4 of these amps but they *all* performed
satisfactorily at least!

Good for you:-)

That's the Bez 300B SET - does that sound so ****ed to you...???

No at all. It's fine while it's working.....

And at a considerable price - even running a Jag (or BMW, Merc, SAAB, &c.)
is hugely expensive compared with the modern Jap/Korean runarounds.

Yes. But an unreliable product only goes to strengthen the
impression that some people have that all valve equipment is quirky
and unreliable.

Don't be the London Underground stationer who spends half of every working
day telling people there's no demand for fountain pens, Iain - embrace
these Chinese amps amd become Scandinavia's *Premiere* repairer and
restorer of them. Import Chinese technicians, if you need to, to cope with
the workload if there's as many as you say! (Works for Bernard
Matthews.... ;-)

Gosh.- I would rather be a gardener and spend the day trying to
burn piles of wet leaves:-))

Who knows, each one that brings an amp in might go out a future customer
for one of your own products, if you can demonstrate the extra cost is
justified...??

:-))

I think the Chinese thing will probably boil over fairly soon, but until
it does the view of certain products from China is pretty much like the
view of Jap products (motorbikes in particular) in the UK, in the 60s.
Except that the rate of acceptance is much faster - who TF cares what name
is on their telly, computer/computer monitor &c. these days and who is in
the least bit surprised to see a 'Made In China' somewhere on the article
or packaging?

Chinese audio products have a poor reliability factor. This is the problem.
No one in their right minds would try to compete with them on price, but
then
no European coil winder would pot his transformers with cat litter:-)

Iain

While we wait....
 

"Iain Churches" wrote


In actual fact, while they are running, the Chinese valve amps
work pretty well, and compare favourably with something SS
of an equally silly price.


I doubt you could get a pair of decent 'Western' OPTs for the same money as
the whole amps can cost!




It is difficult for the average owner, at least in this part
of the world to know where to take such an amp. TV repair
shops won't usually touch them, and hifi dealers don't seem
to want to be troubled with something that was not bought
from them. So once they fail, they are offered in part
exchange for something better (and hopefully thermionic:-)


If they get new people into the WWOV then they will have served a purpose! I
*suspect* (I don't know) that once bitten by the thermionic bug it's
unlikely anyone would go back to SS for their *serious* listening, as you
have said yourself on a number of occasions.





You are pounding a drum that makes no sound to me - repeat, I have
personal experience of only 4 of these amps but they *all* performed
satisfactorily at least!

Good for you:-)

That's the Bez 300B SET - does that sound so ****ed to you...???

No at all. It's fine while it's working.....


Which it does all day long until it wants some time off - on the whole, the
thing is a workhorse!! (I thrash it mercilessly - if it can't take it, then
Sand Fairy Anne at what it cost! ;-)



And at a considerable price - even running a Jag (or BMW, Merc, SAAB,
&c.)
is hugely expensive compared with the modern Jap/Korean runarounds.

Yes. But an unreliable product only goes to strengthen the
impression that some people have that all valve equipment is quirky
and unreliable.


No....

Give even dummies like me a little credit - read the words again *no-one in
his right mind* expects topline performance from cheap, Chinky amps. If they
do and they squeal when one needs a bit of TLC, then they are best left out
of the loop anyway - it's a factor life, choob gear plays up from time to
time, end of....



Chinese audio products have a poor reliability factor. This is the
problem.


Sez who?

I can only speak from my own experience - 4 amps and a couple of (dirt
cheap) rectifier vales and one volume pot gone West in a couple of years is
all....

Oh, and one capacitor lead broke off - *German* cap and fixed in a
jiffy.....


No one in their right minds would try to compete with them on price, but
then
no European coil winder would pot his transformers with cat litter:-)


??

Enough already - have a look at this, out of interest (not directly
connected):

http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/hfw/olde...hornspkrs.html


Sent to me by the guy who bought my EAR834L (and Visaton OBs) and who also
bought an EAR834P from Haden Boardman, apparently!! Anyway, he's working his
way up to Lowthers now, from what I can see of it!! ;-)

While we wait....
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Iain Churches" wrote


In actual fact, while they are running, the Chinese valve amps
work pretty well, and compare favourably with something SS
of an equally silly price.


I doubt you could get a pair of decent 'Western' OPTs for the same money
as the whole amps can cost!

That's true. But there are a lot of cheap SS amsps on the market too.
Compared with these, the Chinese valve amps sound good, but the
cheapo SS gear is probably more reliable.

If they get new people into the WWOV then they will have served a purpose!
I *suspect* (I don't know) that once bitten by the thermionic bug it's
unlikely anyone would go back to SS for their *serious* listening, as you
have said yourself on a number of occasions.

Let's hope that will be the case. There is also the possibility that
someone
will buy a Chinese/Vietnamese amp which gives trouble, and draw the
conclusion
that all thermionic amps are unreliable.

Give even dummies like me a little credit - read the words again *no-one
in his right mind* expects topline performance from cheap, Chinky amps. If
they do and they squeal when one needs a bit of TLC, then they are best
left out of the loop anyway - it's a factor life, choob gear plays up from
time to time, end of....

Agreed. But first time owners may not really know what to expect,
and they may not know either what sort of money one has to pay for
say a Conrad Johnson.


Enough already - have a look at this, out of interest (not directly
connected):

http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/hfw/olde...hornspkrs.html


Sent to me by the guy who bought my EAR834L (and Visaton OBs) and who also
bought an EAR834P from Haden Boardman, apparently!! Anyway, he's working
his way up to Lowthers now, from what I can see of it!! ;-)

Did you know there are now Chinese copies of both Lowther and
Tannoy dual concentric (both "designed" in Germany, and built in the
FarEast?)


Iain

While we wait....
 

"Iain Churches" wrote


That's true. But there are a lot of cheap SS amsps on the market too.
Compared with these, the Chinese valve amps sound good, but the
cheapo SS gear is probably more reliable.


No idea - no personal experience other than of familiarly-branded stuff
which just happens to be built in China.




If they get new people into the WWOV then they will have served a
purpose! I *suspect* (I don't know) that once bitten by the thermionic
bug it's unlikely anyone would go back to SS for their *serious*
listening, as you have said yourself on a number of occasions.

Let's hope that will be the case. There is also the possibility that
someone
will buy a Chinese/Vietnamese amp which gives trouble, and draw the
conclusion
that all thermionic amps are unreliable.


I suppose it could be fairly argued that valve amps are generally a lot more
likely to give trouble than their similarly-priced ss counterparts. If the
'sound' from them wasn't so much better I don't suppose I would have
bothered with them myself, once the novelty had worn off....??

I understand (his wife told me) that T De P brought out both ss and valve
versions of an amp that were *sonically indistinguishable* from each other
to cater for 'lady musicians' (was the phrase) who were alarmed by the heat
and palaver of valve stuff! Both hideously expensive, I gather, which is the
whole point of valves - you get the better sound for actually a lot less
money at the budget end of the spectrum!



Give even dummies like me a little credit - read the words again *no-one
in his right mind* expects topline performance from cheap, Chinky amps.
If they do and they squeal when one needs a bit of TLC, then they are
best left out of the loop anyway - it's a factor life, choob gear plays
up from time to time, end of....

Agreed. But first time owners may not really know what to expect,
and they may not know either what sort of money one has to pay for
say a Conrad Johnson.


I really can't agree to this one - I think the chances of a slick/clueless
salesman saying to a fick Chav '...or there's this one with valves in
it.....' and said Chav saying 'Oh, OK then, I'll take that one!' are pretty
slim. Anyone who is drawn towards valves out of curiosity is likely to have
learned a little about them. But even if they do walk into a spot of bother,
then so what - life's nothing other than one big learning curve. Dropping a
goolie with a cheap valve amp is not likely to be the worst personal trial
anyone will experience.....

Up 'til only a year or so ago there were only 3 routes into valves at
anything like a budget price - dodgy old museum piece, a kit or build one
yourself from a heap of bits. I did all three. Now you can add 'cheap eBay
Chinese' to those options (and I did that too)!!

You must expect some (if not many) of your future customers to have taken at
least one of these routes to arrive in your showroom with and willing to
part with enough wedge to carry one off! No good fretting about how they get
there - or you will be relying only on the wealthier potential customers
who, of course, will be blissfully unaware of the possibly greater
likelihood of problems with the cheaper valve stuff!



Did you know there are now Chinese copies of both Lowther and
Tannoy dual concentric (both "designed" in Germany, and built in the
FarEast?)


Sure, there are even Chinese copies of quite inexpensive (for what they are)
Russian mics....!!!

While we wait....
 

Keith G wrote:

I understand (his wife told me) that T De P brought out both ss and valve
versions of an amp that were *sonically indistinguishable* from each other
to cater for 'lady musicians' (was the phrase) who were alarmed by the heat
and palaver of valve stuff! Both hideously expensive, I gather, which is the
whole point of valves - you get the better sound for actually a lot less
money at the budget end of the spectrum!


Ok, but every time I read anything that TDP has written or said I get
the feeling that its all hype/********/misdirection (your choice).

--
Nick

While we wait....
 

"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

I understand (his wife told me) that T De P brought out both ss and
valve versions of an amp that were *sonically indistinguishable* from
each other to cater for 'lady musicians' (was the phrase) who were
alarmed by the heat and palaver of valve stuff! Both hideously expensive,
I gather, which is the whole point of valves - you get the better sound
for actually a lot less money at the budget end of the spectrum!


Ok, but every time I read anything that TDP has written or said I get the
feeling that its all hype/********/misdirection (your choice).



I have only had personal experience of a couple of minor EAR products - the
834P and L, both of which were not ridiculously overpriced at the time when
compared to other makes. As you know, the phono isn't marvellous but it's a
reasonable introduction to valve phono stages at the price level and the
line stage worked well enough (and was solidly built) but didn't do the
sound any favours at all - M could always tell when it was in the loop and
said it sounded 'blurry', I always thought it sounded 'grey' but wondered if
that might not be the Mullards I had in it...???

There's no doubt he's a succesful 'brand' (hype or not) - I had no trouble
shifting both those bits of kit and another thing worth a mention is that,
while TdP doesn't use Chinamen or little old ladies in headscarves as cheap
labour, I am told he does use *students*...!!

Anybody considering a commercial venture of any kind needs to know that
(outside of intangibles like 'skill' and ingenuity) the costs of the
workforce, vehicles, plant & machinery, premises and raw materials *will*
dictate unit cost price, but competition will dictate the ultimate selling
price - thus any competitor that has a significant advantage in any of those
cost areas stands a greater chance of succeeding/surviving in a marketplace
where he has no monopoly...!!

Factor in also that a lot of the 'Eastern' competition in many areas (call
centres, to name but one) receives serious Government assistance/subsidy to
run their businesses while here in Good Old Blighty you can only depend on
being shafted at every opportunity and saddled with ruinous legislation
heavily loaded in favour of the weakest link in your workforce, irrespective
of any company's capability to pay for the necessary implementation!!

While we wait....
 

Keith G wrote:
"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...

Keith G wrote:


I understand (his wife told me) that T De P brought out both ss and
valve versions of an amp that were *sonically indistinguishable* from
each other to cater for 'lady musicians' (was the phrase) who were
alarmed by the heat and palaver of valve stuff! Both hideously expensive,
I gather, which is the whole point of valves - you get the better sound
for actually a lot less money at the budget end of the spectrum!


Ok, but every time I read anything that TDP has written or said I get the
feeling that its all hype/********/misdirection (your choice).




I have only had personal experience of a couple of minor EAR products - the
834P and L, both of which were not ridiculously overpriced at the time when
compared to other makes. As you know, the phono isn't marvellous but it's a
reasonable introduction to valve phono stages at the price level and the
line stage worked well enough (and was solidly built) but didn't do the
sound any favours at all - M could always tell when it was in the loop and
said it sounded 'blurry', I always thought it sounded 'grey' but wondered if
that might not be the Mullards I had in it...???

I worded my post to include what he said/wrote and not the performance
of his products, as I have only heard a few of them, but all the things
I have read from him match how I described them.

Nothing more.

--
Nick

While we wait....
 

"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:
"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...

Keith G wrote:


I understand (his wife told me) that T De P brought out both ss and
valve versions of an amp that were *sonically indistinguishable* from
each other to cater for 'lady musicians' (was the phrase) who were
alarmed by the heat and palaver of valve stuff! Both hideously
expensive, I gather, which is the whole point of valves - you get the
better sound for actually a lot less money at the budget end of the
spectrum!


Ok, but every time I read anything that TDP has written or said I get the
feeling that its all hype/********/misdirection (your choice).




I have only had personal experience of a couple of minor EAR products -
the 834P and L, both of which were not ridiculously overpriced at the
time when compared to other makes. As you know, the phono isn't
marvellous but it's a reasonable introduction to valve phono stages at
the price level and the line stage worked well enough (and was solidly
built) but didn't do the sound any favours at all - M could always tell
when it was in the loop and said it sounded 'blurry', I always thought it
sounded 'grey' but wondered if that might not be the Mullards I had in
it...???

I worded my post to include what he said/wrote and not the performance of
his products, as I have only heard a few of them, but all the things I
have read from him match how I described them.

Nothing more.



OK, but it was hardly germaine to the preceding thread, I merely used my
reply to you to further my own observations in respect to the thread
generally - I have never read anything from T de P (as as I can remember)
myself, so I can't comment other than to report my own somewhat limited
experience of EAR products.

FWIW, I suspect (but I don't *know*) that there's as much **** spread about
T de P and his products as there is often claimed that he, himself, spreads
about them, due to widespread 'professional jealousy' and 'commercial
envy'....??

While we wait....
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:
"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...

Keith G wrote:


I understand (his wife told me) that T De P brought out both ss and
valve versions of an amp that were *sonically indistinguishable* from
each other to cater for 'lady musicians' (was the phrase) who were
alarmed by the heat and palaver of valve stuff! Both hideously
expensive, I gather, which is the whole point of valves - you get the
better sound for actually a lot less money at the budget end of the
spectrum!


Ok, but every time I read anything that TDP has written or said I get
the feeling that its all hype/********/misdirection (your choice).




I have only had personal experience of a couple of minor EAR products -
the 834P and L, both of which were not ridiculously overpriced at the
time when compared to other makes. As you know, the phono isn't
marvellous but it's a reasonable introduction to valve phono stages at
the price level and the line stage worked well enough (and was solidly
built) but didn't do the sound any favours at all - M could always tell
when it was in the loop and said it sounded 'blurry', I always thought
it sounded 'grey' but wondered if that might not be the Mullards I had
in it...???

I worded my post to include what he said/wrote and not the performance of
his products, as I have only heard a few of them, but all the things I
have read from him match how I described them.

Nothing more.



OK, but it was hardly germaine to the preceding thread, I merely used my
reply to you to further my own observations in respect to the thread
generally - I have never read anything from T de P (as as I can remember)
myself, so I can't comment other than to report my own somewhat limited
experience of EAR products.

FWIW, I suspect (but I don't *know*) that there's as much **** spread
about T de P and his products as there is often claimed that he, himself,
spreads about them, due to widespread 'professional jealousy' and
'commercial envy'....??



Nothing succeeds like success:-)
Good luck to the man. People speak highly of his products.
He certainly seems to have a flair for publicity also.

Iain

While we wait....
 

Nick Gorham wrote:
Keith G wrote:
"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...

Keith G wrote:


I understand (his wife told me) that T De P brought out both ss and
valve versions of an amp that were *sonically indistinguishable*
from each other to cater for 'lady musicians' (was the phrase) who
were alarmed by the heat and palaver of valve stuff! Both hideously
expensive, I gather, which is the whole point of valves - you get
the better sound for actually a lot less money at the budget end of
the spectrum!


Ok, but every time I read anything that TDP has written or said I get
the feeling that its all hype/********/misdirection (your choice).




I have only had personal experience of a couple of minor EAR products
- the 834P and L, both of which were not ridiculously overpriced at
the time when compared to other makes. As you know, the phono isn't
marvellous but it's a reasonable introduction to valve phono stages at
the price level and the line stage worked well enough (and was solidly
built) but didn't do the sound any favours at all - M could always
tell when it was in the loop and said it sounded 'blurry', I always
thought it sounded 'grey' but wondered if that might not be the
Mullards I had in it...???

I worded my post to include what he said/wrote and not the performance
of his products, as I have only heard a few of them, but all the things
I have read from him match how I described them.

Nothing more.


I've got an 834P phono, paid about 200UKP S/H, and I like it a lot. Only
criticisms are a slight bass 'lift' and a daft difficult-to-see on/off
arrangement - I left it on for a week once ;-). Oh, and needless to say,
it has a noisy left channel until nudged about a bit. Couple of
amusing/informative links:

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=vinyl&m=108318

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/...postID=365#365

825UKP new is silly though.

Rob

While we wait....
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i...

"Keith G" wrote


FWIW, I suspect (but I don't *know*) that there's as much **** spread
about T de P and his products as there is often claimed that he, himself,
spreads about them, due to widespread 'professional jealousy' and
'commercial envy'....??



Nothing succeeds like success:-)
Good luck to the man. People speak highly of his products.
He certainly seems to have a flair for publicity also.



People tend to forget or overlook that he did a lot of good (?) work for
people like Lux in Nippon a few decades ago - I have no beef with or about
him, but unfortunately at the price I am unlikely to try any of his more
expensive products for myself!

Comes back to what I've been saying all along - a lot more people will have
a scary punt at valves at the Chinese price levels, which is almost 1/10th
that of stuff like the upper EAR range:

http://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/default....ufacturerID=19

!!??

(Me? I'm waiting for your 300B SET when you've got one ready to go - mebbe I
could more easily afford one of them if you let me have it *trade*...?? :-)

While we wait....
 

"Rob" wrote


I've got an 834P phono, paid about 200UKP S/H, and I like it a lot. Only
criticisms are a slight bass 'lift' and a daft difficult-to-see on/off
arrangement - I left it on for a week once ;-).


Chicken head knobs will help you avoid this - I swapped them onto both my
EAR bits (and back off again when I sold them), but global-waming ussues
aside, the EAR is designed to be left on 24/7 with no ill effect, I
gather....



Oh, and needless to say,
it has a noisy left channel until nudged about a bit.


Clean yer pins!!


Couple of
amusing/informative links:

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=vinyl&m=108318

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/...postID=365#365

825UKP new is silly though.


Yes, interesting - I think the phrase 'turd polishing' is a bit harsh, but I
would say (personal experience again) the EAR phono can't hold a candle to
the then WAD Phono II which has a separate power supply (essential in my
book). I believe there is a new one due out soon from the new 'World
Designs' company which is risen (all Phoenix-like) from the steaming ashes
of WAD - maybe it'll be even better??

(But be quick - I don't see 'WD' surviving much longer than WAD did! ;-)

While we wait....
 

Keith G wrote:
"Rob" wrote


I've got an 834P phono, paid about 200UKP S/H, and I like it a lot. Only
criticisms are a slight bass 'lift' and a daft difficult-to-see on/off
arrangement - I left it on for a week once ;-).


Chicken head knobs will help you avoid this - I swapped them onto both my
EAR bits (and back off again when I sold them), but global-waming ussues
aside, the EAR is designed to be left on 24/7 with no ill effect, I
gather....


Yep, must do the knob change (as it were). 24/7 - OK, makes me feel a
bit better :-)


Oh, and needless to say,
it has a noisy left channel until nudged about a bit.


Clean yer pins!!


I've tried most fettle solutions, including valves, but there's this
hiss from one channel from time to time. Not audible from a distance,
but is something on the to do list.


Couple of
amusing/informative links:

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=vinyl&m=108318

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/...postID=365#365

825UKP new is silly though.


Yes, interesting - I think the phrase 'turd polishing' is a bit harsh, but I
would say (personal experience again) the EAR phono can't hold a candle to
the then WAD Phono II which has a separate power supply (essential in my
book).

He certainly seems to generate opinions, in both 'his' design ideas and
personality. I can't say - the only hifi industry bod that ever annoyed
me was Ivor wosisname Linn - banned unions, arrogantly nicked ideas and
an all round unpleasant character (apparently).


I believe there is a new one due out soon from the new 'World
Designs' company which is risen (all Phoenix-like) from the steaming ashes
of WAD - maybe it'll be even better??

(But be quick - I don't see 'WD' surviving much longer than WAD did! ;-)


I did try to order one when WAD were alive - by phone and the web. On
the phone he promised to get back to me (never did), on the web the
order page kept returning errors. The new WD stuff looks good - but no
phono.

If anyone knows of a tried/tested valve MC/MM kit that comes with all
the bits (including a PCB - don't fancy that point-to-point stuff)
please tell ...

Rob

While we wait....
 

"Rob" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:
"Rob" wrote


I've got an 834P phono, paid about 200UKP S/H, and I like it a lot. Only
criticisms are a slight bass 'lift' and a daft difficult-to-see on/off
arrangement - I left it on for a week once ;-).


Chicken head knobs will help you avoid this - I swapped them onto both my
EAR bits (and back off again when I sold them), but global-waming ussues
aside, the EAR is designed to be left on 24/7 with no ill effect, I
gather....


Yep, must do the knob change (as it were).



Let me know if you need one and I'll put one in a Jiffy bag, I've got a
bunch of them - as per:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/ear834p.JPG



24/7 - OK, makes me feel a
bit better :-)


Plenty would argue these things are best left on 24/7 anyway, but I can't
reconcile this with the 'global warming' concerns which (for once) I believe
are very real!!




Oh, and needless to say,
it has a noisy left channel until nudged about a bit.


Clean yer pins!!


I've tried most fettle solutions, including valves, but there's this hiss
from one channel from time to time. Not audible from a distance, but is
something on the to do list.


Hmm, OK - perhaps there's a little, tiny snake in there somewhere...??

:-)



Yes, interesting - I think the phrase 'turd polishing' is a bit harsh,
but I would say (personal experience again) the EAR phono can't hold a
candle to the then WAD Phono II which has a separate power supply
(essential in my book).

He certainly seems to generate opinions, in both 'his' design ideas and
personality. I can't say - the only hifi industry bod that ever annoyed me
was Ivor wosisname Linn - banned unions, arrogantly nicked ideas and an
all round unpleasant character (apparently).


Oops!

*cue Pinky*

:-)




I believe there is a new one due out soon from the new 'World
Designs' company which is risen (all Phoenix-like) from the steaming
ashes of WAD - maybe it'll be even better??

(But be quick - I don't see 'WD' surviving much longer than WAD did! ;-)


I did try to order one when WAD were alive - by phone and the web. On the
phone he promised to get back to me (never did), on the web the order page
kept returning errors. The new WD stuff looks good - but no phono.


OK, I thought one was on the horizon....??



If anyone knows of a tried/tested valve MC/MM kit that comes with all the
bits (including a PCB - don't fancy that point-to-point stuff) please tell
...


There's always the Chinky stuff on eBay...??

This one's cheap atm, but the postage ain't too tiny:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MS-12B-MM-MC-C...QQcmdZViewItem


Here's another - postage isn't too bad if you can wait for a small eternity
to get i:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HI-END-NEW-200...QQcmdZViewItem


Are they any good? No idea, I ain't ever heard one - this is where you have
to go by your own instincts and cross ya fingers!

Talking of eBay, I'd better get off - I'm winning no less than 6 items atm,
I'd better get on watch!! :-)

While we wait....
 

Rob wrote:


I did try to order one when WAD were alive - by phone and the web. On
the phone he promised to get back to me (never did), on the web the
order page kept returning errors. The new WD stuff looks good - but no
phono.

If anyone knows of a tried/tested valve MC/MM kit that comes with all
the bits (including a PCB - don't fancy that point-to-point stuff)
please tell ...

Rob

The WD one will be ready very soon now, the power supply and pre have
been in the mag, the phono will be next. Give them a call and ask.
Having met Peter a couple of times now its clear he has a different view
on how to make the company a success than the last owners (not that its
the same company in fact).

It (and its power supply) are PCB based.

--
Nick

While we wait....
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

Anybody considering a commercial venture of any kind needs to know that
(outside of intangibles like 'skill' and ingenuity) the costs of the
workforce, vehicles, plant & machinery, premises and raw materials *will*
dictate unit cost price, but competition will dictate the ultimate selling
price - thus any competitor that has a significant advantage in any of
those cost areas stands a greater chance of succeeding/surviving in a
marketplace where he has no monopoly...!!

And yet you expect people here in the West to to repair Chinese amps for
a bowl of rice:-))

Valve audio is a niche market, served by a small number of
boutique builders. With the exception of the Chinese, there
is no mass production any more - nor is there ever likely to
be again.

But, people who are planning to spend say 30k on a system,
are not too concerned whether choice A is a little cheaper than
choice B. They pick the one they prefer and the flexible friend
looks after the rest:-)

For this reason, I think that the future of hand crafted tube amps,
like hand-made furniture, or small-volume specialist cars, is not
threatened by anything Chinese.


Factor in also that a lot of the 'Eastern' competition in many areas (call
centres, to name but one) receives serious Government assistance/subsidy
to run their businesses while here in Good Old Blighty you can only depend
on being shafted at every opportunity and saddled with ruinous legislation
heavily loaded in favour of the weakest link in your workforce,
irrespective of any company's capability to pay for the necessary
implementation!!

Wouldn't know about that, Sor.

:-))

Iain

While we wait....
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

Anybody considering a commercial venture of any kind needs to know that
(outside of intangibles like 'skill' and ingenuity) the costs of the
workforce, vehicles, plant & machinery, premises and raw materials *will*
dictate unit cost price, but competition will dictate the ultimate
selling
price - thus any competitor that has a significant advantage in any of
those cost areas stands a greater chance of succeeding/surviving in a
marketplace where he has no monopoly...!!

And yet you expect people here in the West to to repair Chinese amps for
a bowl of rice:-))



No, I expect you to import foreigners and get them to do it for ****-all -
we've got an order in for a couple of million Rumanians, due any time now...

Or, alternatively, quote long turn-round times and stack the work for 'Bob A
Job Week' and get some Scouts to do it for a new woggle or summat!



Valve audio is a niche market, served by a small number of
boutique builders. With the exception of the Chinese, there
is no mass production any more - nor is there ever likely to
be again.

But, people who are planning to spend say 30k on a system,
are not too concerned whether choice A is a little cheaper than
choice B. They pick the one they prefer and the flexible friend
looks after the rest:-)

For this reason, I think that the future of hand crafted tube amps,
like hand-made furniture, or small-volume specialist cars, is not
threatened by anything Chinese.



Gawd Iain, you're not listening - *any* commercial enterprise needs a steady
cashlow unless it has massive reserves. Sitting around for 6 months waiting
for a wealthy idiot to wander in is *not* going to work!! Eating is directly
linked to your takings and overheads are there every damn month whether
you've had a result or not - you know that!!



Factor in also that a lot of the 'Eastern' competition in many areas
(call
centres, to name but one) receives serious Government assistance/subsidy
to run their businesses while here in Good Old Blighty you can only
depend
on being shafted at every opportunity and saddled with ruinous
legislation
heavily loaded in favour of the weakest link in your workforce,
irrespective of any company's capability to pay for the necessary
implementation!!

Wouldn't know about that, Sor.

:-))


I bloody do and so did just about every major manufacturing industry - cars
and boats and planes, to name but one famous line from a song....!!

While we wait....
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

Anybody considering a commercial venture of any kind needs to know that
(outside of intangibles like 'skill' and ingenuity) the costs of the
workforce, vehicles, plant & machinery, premises and raw materials
*will*
dictate unit cost price, but competition will dictate the ultimate
selling
price - thus any competitor that has a significant advantage in any of
those cost areas stands a greater chance of succeeding/surviving in a
marketplace where he has no monopoly...!!

And yet you expect people here in the West to to repair Chinese amps for
a bowl of rice:-))



No, I expect you to import foreigners and get them to do it for ****-all -
we've got an order in for a couple of million Rumanians, due any time
now...

Not much advantage their either. They still have to be paid at least the
minimum wage, and their employer still has to pay their social costs
which here in Scandinavia is about 140% of the salary.

Or, alternatively, quote long turn-round times and stack the work for 'Bob
A Job Week' and get some Scouts to do it for a new woggle or summat!

Now that's a smart idea:-) Don't tell Tim P!


Gawd Iain, you're not listening - *any* commercial enterprise needs a
steady cashlow unless it has massive reserves. Sitting around for 6 months
waiting for a wealthy idiot to wander in is *not* going to work!! Eating
is directly linked to your takings and overheads are there every damn
month whether you've had a result or not - you know that!!

Small scale valve amp manufacture is not dissimilar to
(wooden) boat building. You can have a small number
of fairly standard boats in stock, but usually the client
knows what he wants, and the craft is built to order.
The boat builder does not sell in large volume, but the
client is willing to pay for a quality product. Those who
are happy with something else buy a fibreglass boat.



Factor in also that a lot of the 'Eastern' competition in many areas
(call
centres, to name but one) receives serious Government assistance/subsidy
to run their businesses while here in Good Old Blighty you can only
depend
on being shafted at every opportunity and saddled with ruinous
legislation
heavily loaded in favour of the weakest link in your workforce,
irrespective of any company's capability to pay for the necessary
implementation!!

Wouldn't know about that, Sor.

:-))


I bloody do and so did just about every major manufacturing industry -
cars and boats and planes, to name but one famous line from a song....!!

It sounds as though legislation in the UK is working
against industry and enterprise.

Iain

While we wait....
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

Here's another - postage isn't too bad if you can wait for a small
eternity to get i:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HI-END-NEW-200...QQcmdZViewItem


Are they any good? No idea, I ain't ever heard one - this is where you
have to go by your own instincts and cross ya fingers!


Look at the name of that second one - it's the same as my Ming Da phono but
in a different box for 2007 - same valves too by the look of it. I wonder if
they have sorted out the AWOL bass?

Phil

While we wait....
 

"PhilN" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

Here's another - postage isn't too bad if you can wait for a small
eternity to get i:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HI-END-NEW-200...QQcmdZViewItem


Are they any good? No idea, I ain't ever heard one - this is where you
have to go by your own instincts and cross ya fingers!


Look at the name of that second one - it's the same as my Ming Da phono
but in a different box for 2007 - same valves too by the look of it. I
wonder if they have sorted out the AWOL bass?



Yes, I'd guess it's damn near identical inside. What we need is a circuit to
see if there are any differences to the Ming!

While we wait....
 

"Iain Churches" wrote

And yet you expect people here in the West to to repair Chinese amps for
a bowl of rice:-))



No, I expect you to import foreigners and get them to do it for
****-all - we've got an order in for a couple of million Rumanians, due
any time now...

Not much advantage their either. They still have to be paid at least the
minimum wage, and their employer still has to pay their social costs
which here in Scandinavia is about 140% of the salary.



No, these poor sods pretty soon 'owe their souls to the company store' - by
the time they have had their *deductions* taken out they barely have enough
money to get drunk on. Recently some poor Portugese bloke in East Anglia
topped himself when he was tossed out of the system (wouldn't play ball?)
and had no money or anywhere to live. The worst thing was *no-one* would pay
to have his body shipped home for a funeral - his own family were to poor to
do it. In true Brit style, the locals raised the money themselves!



Small scale valve amp manufacture is not dissimilar to
(wooden) boat building. You can have a small number
of fairly standard boats in stock, but usually the client
knows what he wants, and the craft is built to order.
The boat builder does not sell in large volume, but the
client is willing to pay for a quality product. Those who
are happy with something else buy a fibreglass boat.



Iain, a while back a friend of mine was UK Sales Manager for Britannia. In
12 years he never sold a single plane but was considered a success simply
because his competitors never sold one either!



It sounds as though legislation in the UK is working
against industry and enterprise.


I think you would be hard put to find anyone who says it isn't, although I
gather it's even worse in countries like France...??

While we wait....
 

Keith G wrote:




Iain, a while back a friend of mine was UK Sales Manager for Britannia. In
12 years he never sold a single plane but was considered a success simply
because his competitors never sold one either!



It sounds as though legislation in the UK is working
against industry and enterprise.


I think you would be hard put to find anyone who says it isn't, although I
gather it's even worse in countries like France...??


Before I retired I was MD of my UK employer's French subsidiary. French
employment law is not helpful to business: Firstly, Employers Social
Security contributions are around 70% of salary (less than Scandinavia,
but a whole lot more than the UK)

Secondly, firing an employee is almost impossible. Incompetence is no
excuse, and once hired, you're pretty much stuck with them. If you try
and move them into something else where they'll do less harm and just
stand the ongoing cost, they take you to an industrial tribunal which
will require you to reinstate them. The only way is to pay them to quit,
which is legal, but costs typically 2-3 years salary (plus SS
contributions and holiday pay for holidays not taken during the
two-three years you're paying them for).

If you try and avoid hiring someone permanent, you can take somebody on
as a temp, but you're only allowed to keep them as temporary for a
maximum of 18 months. After that, you have to let them leave and not
rehire them for at least 12 months, or give them a permanent contract
with all the risks you then won't be able to get rid of them later.

Redundancy is possible, but again costs at least 12 months salary plus
plus plus.

If you want to recruit, it's also pretty difficult as French
unemployment law provides for Unemployment Benefit to be 80% of their
previous salary for 6 months, then 50% for another 18 months.
Consequently, anyone out of work often wants to stay out of work at
least for six months, effectively having a nice long paid holiday, and
often 2 years if their income needs are modest.

Glad I'm not young any more.........

S.

While we wait....
 

"Serge Auckland" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:




Iain, a while back a friend of mine was UK Sales Manager for Britannia.
In 12 years he never sold a single plane but was considered a success
simply because his competitors never sold one either!



It sounds as though legislation in the UK is working
against industry and enterprise.


I think you would be hard put to find anyone who says it isn't, although
I gather it's even worse in countries like France...??

Before I retired I was MD of my UK employer's French subsidiary. French
employment law is not helpful to business: Firstly, Employers Social
Security contributions are around 70% of salary (less than Scandinavia,
but a whole lot more than the UK)

Secondly, firing an employee is almost impossible. Incompetence is no
excuse, and once hired, you're pretty much stuck with them. If you try and
move them into something else where they'll do less harm and just stand
the ongoing cost, they take you to an industrial tribunal which will
require you to reinstate them. The only way is to pay them to quit, which
is legal, but costs typically 2-3 years salary (plus SS contributions and
holiday pay for holidays not taken during the two-three years you're
paying them for).

If you try and avoid hiring someone permanent, you can take somebody on as
a temp, but you're only allowed to keep them as temporary for a maximum of
18 months. After that, you have to let them leave and not rehire them for
at least 12 months, or give them a permanent contract with all the risks
you then won't be able to get rid of them later.

Redundancy is possible, but again costs at least 12 months salary plus
plus plus.

If you want to recruit, it's also pretty difficult as French unemployment
law provides for Unemployment Benefit to be 80% of their previous salary
for 6 months, then 50% for another 18 months. Consequently, anyone out of
work often wants to stay out of work at least for six months, effectively
having a nice long paid holiday, and often 2 years if their income needs
are modest.

Glad I'm not young any more.........



Jeez, no wonder French firms are keen to relocate over here! What a bloody
nightmare!

But it's very interesting in that (having never had cause to fire *anyone*
in over 500 combined years of employment) it is in keeping with my own view
that there is a massive responsibility on the part of the employer not to
hire the wrong people for the job, or allow them to fail in the job once
they have been taken on....??

Back to 'audio' - Swim's got the bloody telly on (as usual) and has drawn my
attention just now to an auction where sombody's just bought a 'Peter Pan'
portable gramophone for 85 quid! (Batteries not included....)

See one on he

http://www.pbase.com/kdnatives/jamis...eum_musicboxes


And I have just won this on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...5627&rd=1&rd=1


Lovely, innit? I just hope it gets here in good shape!

I wonder how hard it would be to fit it to this (which I won yesterday for
the price of a T&G headshell):

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...6830&rd=1&rd=1


with one of my M75s with a 78 needle in it and get a squeak out of it?

Daft but fun!

(Streuth, but I just *love* records and record players - every damn one of
them!! :-)

While we wait....
 

Keith G wrote:


But it's very interesting in that (having never had cause to fire *anyone*
in over 500 combined years of employment) it is in keeping with my own view
that there is a massive responsibility on the part of the employer not to
hire the wrong people for the job, or allow them to fail in the job once
they have been taken on....??

In France you have every incentive to make sure that happens.



And I have just won this on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...5627&rd=1&rd=1


Lovely, innit? I just hope it gets here in good shape!

I wonder how hard it would be to fit it to this (which I won yesterday for
the price of a T&G headshell):

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...6830&rd=1&rd=1


with one of my M75s with a 78 needle in it and get a squeak out of it?

Daft but fun!

(Streuth, but I just *love* records and record players - every damn one of
them!! :-)


As you say, daft but fun. I think there's a very good chance of making
it work properly. Yesterday I got out of my loft a 1920s acoustic
gramophone I had there for the past 20 years with the intention of
getting it working again. Mechanism works fine, it's the cabinet that
needs attention. I have three boxes of needles and all I need now are a
few 78s.

I love the volume control on it, a pair of doors over the end of the
horn, open them and it gets louder.....

S.

While we wait....
 

"Serge Auckland" wrote


As you say, daft but fun. I think there's a very good chance of making it
work properly. Yesterday I got out of my loft a 1920s acoustic gramophone
I had there for the past 20 years with the intention of getting it working
again. Mechanism works fine, it's the cabinet that needs attention. I have
three boxes of needles and all I need now are a few 78s.


Tough to find - there are only 613 auctions for 78s on eBay atm - starting
at 35p + postage!!

(Some Coleman Hawkins and a ****load of Duke Ellington on just the first
page!! Or how about a nice Rudy Vallee:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/UK-78-record-R...QQcmdZViewItem

;-)



I love the volume control on it, a pair of doors over the end of the horn,
open them and it gets louder.....


:-)

I trust there'll be some pix and a *recording* wouldn't go amiss (I've been
training this lot for a while now - they all know to make allowances for the
*room*) - send 'em to me if you don't have a website and I'll put them up
for you!!

While we wait....
 

Keith G wrote:
"Rob" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:
"Rob" wrote


I've got an 834P phono, paid about 200UKP S/H, and I like it a lot. Only
criticisms are a slight bass 'lift' and a daft difficult-to-see on/off
arrangement - I left it on for a week once ;-).

Chicken head knobs will help you avoid this - I swapped them onto both my
EAR bits (and back off again when I sold them), but global-waming ussues
aside, the EAR is designed to be left on 24/7 with no ill effect, I
gather....

Yep, must do the knob change (as it were).



Let me know if you need one and I'll put one in a Jiffy bag, I've got a
bunch of them - as per:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/ear834p.JPG


That'd be great Keith, thanks.


snip

I did try to order one when WAD were alive - by phone and the web. On the
phone he promised to get back to me (never did), on the web the order page
kept returning errors. The new WD stuff looks good - but no phono.


OK, I thought one was on the horizon....??


Seems so (Nick's post below).


If anyone knows of a tried/tested valve MC/MM kit that comes with all the
bits (including a PCB - don't fancy that point-to-point stuff) please tell
...


There's always the Chinky stuff on eBay...??

This one's cheap atm, but the postage ain't too tiny:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MS-12B-MM-MC-C...QQcmdZViewItem


Here's another - postage isn't too bad if you can wait for a small eternity
to get i:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HI-END-NEW-200...QQcmdZViewItem


Are they any good? No idea, I ain't ever heard one - this is where you have
to go by your own instincts and cross ya fingers!


Could be worth a twirl for 100UKPish, nothing (much) ventured ...

Talking of eBay, I'd better get off - I'm winning no less than 6 items atm,
I'd better get on watch!! :-)


Pile 'em high :-)

Rob

While we wait....
 

Nick Gorham wrote:
Rob wrote:


I did try to order one when WAD were alive - by phone and the web. On
the phone he promised to get back to me (never did), on the web the
order page kept returning errors. The new WD stuff looks good - but no
phono.

If anyone knows of a tried/tested valve MC/MM kit that comes with all
the bits (including a PCB - don't fancy that point-to-point stuff)
please tell ...

Rob

The WD one will be ready very soon now, the power supply and pre have
been in the mag, the phono will be next. Give them a call and ask.
Having met Peter a couple of times now its clear he has a different view
on how to make the company a success than the last owners (not that its
the same company in fact).

It (and its power supply) are PCB based.


Thanks Nick, will do.

Rob