On Tue, 22 May 2007 21:10:47 +0100, Rob
wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:
On Tue, 22 May 2007 20:45:32 +0100, Rob
wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:
On Tue, 22 May 2007 19:11:40 +0100, Rob
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Yep, why waste time *listening* to a bit of kit when you could just
stick a meter on it....??
Indeed. A doctor with a stethoscope beats a MRI scan every time.


Why look at (with your eyes?!) a picture when you can digitally analyse
it? Why go for a walk when there's perfectly good GIS profile of your
route? Why listen to music when ... :-)
But the measurements aren't a substitute for listening - they are
designed to make sure your equipment is not going to mar your
pleasure.
It strikes me that measurement fixation *does* affect listening. For
some, a measured anomaly would take away some of the listening pleasure
even if it was inaudible.


Would it take you that way? Not me, that is for sure. ANd by now I
have a very good idea of what is audible and what is not. Add to that
the fact that it is trivially easy these days to make equipment with
errors many orders of magnitude below audibility, and the situation is
really pretty relaxed.


Well, yes it has affected my listening pleasure for a time. Maybe I'm alone.

The fact that audio design engineers have measured every aspect of
your favourite amp, and slaved assiduously to make sure that it is as
good as it can possibly be has adversely affected your listening
pleasure? That actually sounds a little ungrateful to me.


A bit like making sure the glass on the front of your
picture is nice and clear... Of course there are those who like
cloudy glass with a coloured tint, but not those who want to see the
whole of the picture.

d

Some people like their glass 'distorted' so they can see the bigger
picture.

No, you never see the bigger picture through distorted glass. You
always see less - no choice there, I'm afraid. And of course you have
not the slightest chance of seeing the details.


Try telling my wing mirrors :-)

You have distorting wing mirrors? I don't count gain or attenuation,
of course ;-) Objects seen in this mirror are fatter than they look,
heh?

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
writes
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
Not so easy these days given even a
modest but decent sound system straight out of the box.

Including yer DABble radio eh Dave;?...

No one is forcing you to listen to DAB, and never will. If you don't like
it for anything use one of the alternatives. You're obviously in the
enviable position of having perfect reception off FM both at home and in
the car - or more likely are so used to the distortion caused by multipath
you don't notice it anymore.


Loosen up M8 'twas only a ****take
--
Tony Sayer

"Don Pearce" wrote


But the measurements aren't a substitute for listening - they are
designed to make sure your equipment is not going to mar your
pleasure. A bit like making sure the glass on the front of your
picture is nice and clear... Of course there are those who like
cloudy glass with a coloured tint, but not those who want to see the
whole of the picture.


Why are my ears burning?? :-)

OK. Lemme tell ya summat for nowt...

A short while back I met 'Mr X' when I bought the first of two recent
'bikes and we got on to hifi (as you do). He is/was an avid 'enthusiast'
and had 9 pieces (I'm sure he said) of Cyrus kit, Impulse 'Lali' (?)
speakers and no vinyl - ie *blameless* to a fault (the perfect ukra
paradigm)!

As of now (a number of 'seshes' later) he has 300B SET monos, Lowther
'horns' and (as of yesterday) a Lenco GL75 turntable in natty steel
plinth.

Go figure....

(He still has his CD player, you'll be pleased/relieved to hear!)

Go figure again...

(And I have his colleague's TLS80s... ;-)

"Don Pearce" wrote


No, you never see the bigger picture through distorted glass. You
always see less - no choice there, I'm afraid.


Yes you do - it's called a wide-angle lens...


And of course you have
not the slightest chance of seeing the details.


Yes you do - it's called a magnifying lens....

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Rob" wrote in message


I simply don't get this. I've been using 5 SS amps of
late (Quad 405, Rose power amp, Cambridge AV, Behringer
A500, and that within a Pure mini system), as well as
others on and off over the years, and I feel each has 'a
sound of its own'.

Good choice of words - "I feel". IOW what your emotions
tell you, not necessarily what well-reasoned testing
would tell you.

Yep, why waste time *listening* to a bit of kit when you
could just stick a meter on it....??

Agreed that sighted listening is pretty worthless, if the equipment is
good enough to be interesting.


Anybody who sits staring at a bit of audio kit while it plays (typically
the cartridge on a turntable, I find) needs a slap round the chops....

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
writes
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
Not so easy these days given even a
modest but decent sound system straight out of the box.

Including yer DABble radio eh Dave;?...

No one is forcing you to listen to DAB, and never will. If you don't
like
it for anything use one of the alternatives. You're obviously in the
enviable position of having perfect reception off FM both at home and
in
the car - or more likely are so used to the distortion caused by
multipath
you don't notice it anymore.


Loosen up M8 'twas only a ****take


Oi! Do you mind?

That's *my* job....

"Serge Auckland" wrote in message
...


"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Rob" wrote in message


I simply don't get this. I've been using 5 SS amps of
late (Quad 405, Rose power amp, Cambridge AV, Behringer
A500, and that within a Pure mini system), as well as
others on and off over the years, and I feel each has 'a
sound of its own'.

Good choice of words - "I feel". IOW what your emotions tell you,
not necessarily what well-reasoned testing would tell you.



Yep, why waste time *listening* to a bit of kit when you could just
stick a meter on it....??

Works for me! If I want to know what something is doing, I'll take
measurements over ears any day.


For a crash helmet, presumably? :-)

On Tue, 22 May 2007 23:43:20 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote


But the measurements aren't a substitute for listening - they are
designed to make sure your equipment is not going to mar your
pleasure. A bit like making sure the glass on the front of your
picture is nice and clear... Of course there are those who like
cloudy glass with a coloured tint, but not those who want to see the
whole of the picture.


Why are my ears burning?? :-)

OK. Lemme tell ya summat for nowt...

A short while back I met 'Mr X' when I bought the first of two recent
'bikes and we got on to hifi (as you do). He is/was an avid 'enthusiast'
and had 9 pieces (I'm sure he said) of Cyrus kit, Impulse 'Lali' (?)
speakers and no vinyl - ie *blameless* to a fault (the perfect ukra
paradigm)!

As of now (a number of 'seshes' later) he has 300B SET monos, Lowther
'horns' and (as of yesterday) a Lenco GL75 turntable in natty steel
plinth.

Go figure....

(He still has his CD player, you'll be pleased/relieved to hear!)

Go figure again...

(And I have his colleague's TLS80s... ;-)




This is all fine. We all love to go into the hall of mirrors at the
fair, don't we?

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Keith G wrote:

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...

Loosen up M8 'twas only a ****take

Oi! Do you mind?

That's *my* job....

If you're going to start a demarcation dispute, brother Keith,
a bit less of the Socratic irony please. That's my job. :-)

--
Eiron.

May contain traces of irony.

On Wed, 23 May 2007 07:32:32 +0100, Eiron wrote:

Keith G wrote:

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...

Loosen up M8 'twas only a ****take

Oi! Do you mind?

That's *my* job....

If you're going to start a demarcation dispute, brother Keith,
a bit less of the Socratic irony please. That's my job. :-)

In that case, you'd better leave the sarcasm to me, thank you very
much!

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com