I have a Cambridge Audio 540R receiver and wharfedale 9.1 speakers,
using a Macbook for audio source and a separate dvd player for movies.

It sounds great... with the right songs. Jazz and acoustic blues sounds
wonderful, but pop/rock or anything with vocals with busy instruments,
particularly treble, and things start to sound not so good. The vocals
tend to sit in the background, overpowered by instrument sounds.

Same for movies. Just watched Hot Fuzz (disappointing movie by the way),
and the speech is subdued by the crash of sound effects. In the end I
watched the rest of the movie on my PC with budget dell speakers, as it
became such a pain to increase and decrease the volume so as to make out
the speech and quieten the sound effects each time.

I'm guessing the system is lacking in midrange. Is there any way to
remedy this type of problem?. Would bi-wiring help? If it's a case of
poorly matched components, which which of the two components would most
benefit from an upgrade?

Thanks, and apologies if my description of the problem or my questions
sound silly - I'm still a beginner to hi-fi.

"Bion" wrote in message
...
I have a Cambridge Audio 540R receiver and wharfedale 9.1 speakers,
using a Macbook for audio source and a separate dvd player for movies.

It sounds great... with the right songs. Jazz and acoustic blues
sounds
wonderful, but pop/rock or anything with vocals with busy instruments,
particularly treble, and things start to sound not so good. The vocals
tend to sit in the background, overpowered by instrument sounds.


Not surprised to hear that...


Same for movies. Just watched Hot Fuzz (disappointing movie by the
way),
and the speech is subdued by the crash of sound effects. In the end I
watched the rest of the movie on my PC with budget dell speakers, as
it
became such a pain to increase and decrease the volume so as to make
out
the speech and quieten the sound effects each time.

I'm guessing the system is lacking in midrange. Is there any way to
remedy this type of problem?


Yes, speakers - see below....


.. Would bi-wiring help?


No.


If it's a case of
poorly matched components, which which of the two components would
most
benefit from an upgrade?


The problem with modern hifi equipment is the obsession with frequency
extremes which (IMO) are unnecessary a lot of the time and can be
deleterious to the overall sound of a system. Nowadays, 20 - 20K flat FR
is the magic figure for most items but, to give you a clue, an 88 key
piano only spans the frequency range 27.5 to 4186 Hz and older
manufacturers worked to a more useful 16 - 16K. Any more than this in
either direction was reckoned to be beyond the realms of audibility.

That said, of all the small, modern speakers I tried a while back, the
Wharfedale 8.2s provided the least 'spectacular' but ultimately most
satisfying sound of the lot and you will find this:

"The Diamond 9.1 had two attributes that floored me:
1) Extraordinary resolution of detail in the midrange, with no trace of
coloration. Low-level dynamic articulations in this region were subtle
and linear, and the speaker's ability to render soundstage cues,
ambience, and hall sound were what I would expect from a speaker costing
$2000/pair or more.
2) A refined, delicate, and detailed presentation of high-frequency
articulation, with no trace of either hardness or softness and with a
perfect replication of transients."

He

http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcom...ale/index.html


But (and there's always a 'but') I suspect you won't find the sound you
are looking for in any small, *fizzy bizzy*, modern 'cinema ready'
speaker - it's not for nothing a *lot* of people are busy sourcing the
bigger, more 'laid-back' speakers from back in the 70s and 80s. Try to
get a listen to a pair and see what you think - there's plenty of 'em
available on eBay!

Myself, I run two systems - one with 'horns' which will most definitely
give you the forward midrange with the *standout vocals* you allude to
(at the cost of some bass) and one with with massive 'transmission
lines' which will drown anything with (far too much) bass given half a
chance, but which are, thankfully, well enough conceived to provide a
clear, poised, overall sound on most material, but which is somewhat
'recessed' compared with the horns which are not to everybody's taste,
anyway...

No idea about your Cambridge receiver, I've never heard one. Are there
some settings (centre speaker emphasis or summat) you could perhaps
fiddle with...??

Keith G wrote:
But (and there's always a 'but') I suspect you won't find the sound
you
are looking for in any small, *fizzy bizzy*, modern 'cinema ready'
speaker - it's not for nothing a *lot* of people are busy sourcing the
bigger, more 'laid-back' speakers from back in the 70s and 80s. Try to
get a listen to a pair and see what you think - there's plenty of 'em
available on eBay!

Myself, I run two systems - one with 'horns' which will most definitely
give you the forward midrange with the *standout vocals* you allude to
(at the cost of some bass) and one with with massive 'transmission
lines' which will drown anything with (far too much) bass given half a
chance, but which are, thankfully, well enough conceived to provide a
clear, poised, overall sound on most material, but which is somewhat
'recessed' compared with the horns which are not to everybody's taste,
anyway...

Thanks for the great reply Keith. That's a lot to get my teeth into
there. But makes me wonder : Why isn't anything in life just easy
anymore!


No idea about your Cambridge receiver, I've never heard one. Are there
some settings (centre speaker emphasis or summat) you could perhaps
fiddle with...??

So far I've only fiddled about with the tone settings. Lowering the
treble takes some edge off the overwhelming sound I mentioned for
certain media. Still not quite right for movies especially, but it's a
bit better.

The amp does have centre speaker settings. I don't have centre speakers
as yet, so I had left that on zero. But before I do anything else I'll
take this advice. I'm going delve further into the settings, look at the
manual, and see if I can find something which will help.

Hopefully, I'll find a compromise somewhere in the settings, because
this has really frustrated today. I really do love the sound this system
produces for most of my music collection, its just a shame that I may
need to change or like you say, add another system.

Thanks again, it's very much appreciated.

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 16:25:27 +0100, (Bion) wrote:

The amp does have centre speaker settings. I don't have centre speakers
as yet, so I had left that on zero.

It should be set on "None" or "Not present." Zero will turn down the
output from that amp channel but not reroute the information to the
left and right speakers.

Kal

Kalman Rubinson wrote:

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 16:25:27 +0100, (Bion) wrote:

The amp does have centre speaker settings. I don't have centre speakers
as yet, so I had left that on zero.

It should be set on "None" or "Not present." Zero will turn down the
output from that amp channel but not reroute the information to the
left and right speakers.

Kal

Sorry, my mistake, it is set on "none". The only speakers set are FL/R
which is on "large"

In article , Keith G
wrote:


The problem with modern hifi equipment is the obsession with frequency
extremes which (IMO) are unnecessary a lot of the time and can be
deleterious to the overall sound of a system. Nowadays, 20 - 20K flat FR
is the magic figure for most items but, to give you a clue, an 88 key
piano only spans the frequency range 27.5 to 4186 Hz

To give you a rather better clue, the above values only refer to the
fundamental tones of the notes of a piano. In reality a somewhat wider
range of frequencies would be required if you wanted the results to sound
anything like a piano. :-)


and older manufacturers worked to a more useful 16 - 16K. Any more than
this in either direction was reckoned to be beyond the realms of
audibility.

FM The BBC were happy enough with up to about 15kHz for FM radio. So the
order of 15 kHz or 16 kHz probably makes some sense as a minumum
requirement for the top end.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
wrote:


The problem with modern hifi equipment is the obsession with
frequency
extremes which (IMO) are unnecessary a lot of the time and can be
deleterious to the overall sound of a system. Nowadays, 20 - 20K flat
FR
is the magic figure for most items but, to give you a clue, an 88 key
piano only spans the frequency range 27.5 to 4186 Hz

To give you a rather better clue, the above values only refer to the
fundamental tones of the notes of a piano.


Yep.


In reality a somewhat wider
range of frequencies would be required if you wanted the results to
sound
anything like a piano. :-)


Yep, but I really don't know what the upper limit requirements might
be - if you do, post them here. Meanwhile, here's some more interesting
figures that show the FR range of various instruments isn't as wide as
we might think it to be:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/topics/frequency_e.html

All of which point to a need for a 'decent midrange' (the OP's original
concern) in my book, rather than the speaker's ability to attract
bats...

On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 12:47:06 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


In reality a somewhat wider
range of frequencies would be required if you wanted the results to
sound
anything like a piano. :-)


Yep, but I really don't know what the upper limit requirements might
be - if you do, post them here. Meanwhile, here's some more interesting
figures that show the FR range of various instruments isn't as wide as
we might think it to be:

Some clues here. I've put various lowpass filters into this bit of
music. The drum sounds off to me from 12kHz, and the piano is getting
dodgy from 10kHz.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/lowpass.mp3

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 12:47:06 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


In reality a somewhat wider
range of frequencies would be required if you wanted the results to
sound
anything like a piano. :-)


Yep, but I really don't know what the upper limit requirements might
be - if you do, post them here. Meanwhile, here's some more
interesting
figures that show the FR range of various instruments isn't as wide as
we might think it to be:

Some clues here. I've put various lowpass filters into this bit of
music. The drum sounds off to me from 12kHz, and the piano is getting
dodgy from 10kHz.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/lowpass.mp3



I reckon I'd buy that all the way down to the 8K filter!

(Your singing voice is getting better!! :-)

On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 12:47:06 +0100, Keith G wrote:



Yep, but I really don't know what the upper limit requirements might
be - if you do, post them here. Meanwhile, here's some more interesting
figures that show the FR range of various instruments isn't as wide as
we might think it to be:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/topics/frequency_e.html

All of which point to a need for a 'decent midrange' (the OP's original
concern) in my book, rather than the speaker's ability to attract
bats...


Keith - again you are ignoring the fact that those tables refer to the
fundamentals. This is fine if you want your high notes to sound like sine
waves but you won't be able to tell what sort of instrument you are
listening to without higher harmonics.

I find that cymbals are the most difficult instrument to reproduce
electronically - they produce frequencies far higher than we can hear. In
my younger days I used to find the 19kHz pilot tone annoying on some mono
radios that didn't filter it out so, if you want something that sounds
right to a young person, you need accurate high frequency response to
greater than 19kHz.

Cheers

James.