I've bulked up summat awful again, so it's time for another clearout/
kit reduction!

Lots of nice things on my new, permanent Items For Sale page:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/item...emsforsale.htm


No prices (what's the point?) - open to a good old haggle on most
things!!

:-)

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

I've bulked up summat awful again, so it's time for another clearout/ kit
reduction!

Lots of nice things on my new, permanent Items For Sale page:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/item...emsforsale.htm


No prices (what's the point?) - open to a good old haggle on most things!!

:-)

If you're selling your Technics amp and the Dynacos, what will you drive
your TLS80s with, not a SET?

S.
--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com

"Serge Auckland" wrote in message
...


"Keith G" wrote in message
...

I've bulked up summat awful again, so it's time for another clearout/
kit reduction!

Lots of nice things on my new, permanent Items For Sale page:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/item...emsforsale.htm


No prices (what's the point?) - open to a good old haggle on most
things!!

:-)

If you're selling your Technics amp and the Dynacos, what will you
drive your TLS80s with, not a SET?



I certainly can, but right this minute I have my little (50 Watt?) Denon
PMA-655R on them - I doubt many could stand the *loudness* of a CD at
half volume on that setup!

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Serge Auckland" wrote in message
...


"Keith G" wrote in message
...

I've bulked up summat awful again, so it's time for another clearout/
kit reduction!

Lots of nice things on my new, permanent Items For Sale page:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/item...emsforsale.htm


No prices (what's the point?) - open to a good old haggle on most
things!!

:-)

If you're selling your Technics amp and the Dynacos, what will you drive
your TLS80s with, not a SET?



I certainly can, but right this minute I have my little (50 Watt?) Denon
PMA-655R on them - I doubt many could stand the *loudness* of a CD at half
volume on that setup!


Half volume is typically -20dB on most volume pots. CD players output 2
volts, and amplifiers typically have an input sensitivity of 100-500 mV so
your CD at half-volume is outputting somewhere near the maximum of the
amplifier which is 50 W into 8 ohms, in practice probably more.
Consequently, I'm not surprised it's loud. However, if my experience with
IMF is anything to go by, you are probably clipping the little Denon, which
will also increase the apparent loudness. I wouldn't use less than 100 watts
on the IMFs, more if I had it.

S.

http://audiopages.googlepages.com

"Serge Auckland" wrote

If you're selling your Technics amp and the Dynacos, what will you
drive your TLS80s with, not a SET?



I certainly can, but right this minute I have my little (50 Watt?)
Denon PMA-655R on them - I doubt many could stand the *loudness* of a
CD at half volume on that setup!


Half volume is typically -20dB on most volume pots. CD players output
2 volts, and amplifiers typically have an input sensitivity of 100-500
mV so your CD at half-volume is outputting somewhere near the maximum
of the amplifier which is 50 W into 8 ohms, in practice probably more.
Consequently, I'm not surprised it's loud. However, if my experience
with IMF is anything to go by, you are probably clipping the little
Denon, which will also increase the apparent loudness. I wouldn't use
less than 100 watts on the IMFs, more if I had it.


Just off out, so a *quickie*:

The amp is fine 'til the 2 o'clock mark and then audibly distorting well
by the 3 o'clock mark. (The IMF 'manual' says 'Power Driving
Requirements: 40 - 100 Watts'...??)

Just checked - at the 12 o'clock mark, Oi Va Voi's Track 1 'Refugee'
from their 'Laughter Through Tears' album is superbly clear, stark and
about at the limits of tolerance in my room. Find it here, numbered
Track 6:

http://www.oi-va-voi.com/music.php

"Keith G" wrote

Just checked - at the 12 o'clock mark, Oi Va Voi's Track 1 'Refugee'
from their 'Laughter Through Tears' album is superbly clear, stark and
about at the limits of tolerance in my room. Find it here, numbered
Track 6:

http://www.oi-va-voi.com/music.php



Probably just coming off the stage at the Scala as I type!

http://www.scala-london.co.uk/scala/event.php?id=695


Bugger....

(There are times I would swap the 'easy life' in Turnip Central for
summat a bit more *handy*...!!)

Keith G wrote:
"Serge Auckland" wrote

If you're selling your Technics amp and the Dynacos, what will you
drive your TLS80s with, not a SET?


I certainly can, but right this minute I have my little (50 Watt?)
Denon PMA-655R on them - I doubt many could stand the *loudness* of a
CD at half volume on that setup!


Half volume is typically -20dB on most volume pots. CD players output
2 volts, and amplifiers typically have an input sensitivity of 100-500
mV so your CD at half-volume is outputting somewhere near the maximum
of the amplifier which is 50 W into 8 ohms, in practice probably more.
Consequently, I'm not surprised it's loud. However, if my experience
with IMF is anything to go by, you are probably clipping the little
Denon, which will also increase the apparent loudness. I wouldn't use
less than 100 watts on the IMFs, more if I had it.


Just off out, so a *quickie*:

The amp is fine 'til the 2 o'clock mark and then audibly distorting well
by the 3 o'clock mark. (The IMF 'manual' says 'Power Driving
Requirements: 40 - 100 Watts'...??)


It's generally better to know what the amp is doing rather than guess,
especially if you have a DVM and an oscilloscope.
I would disconnect the speakers, put on a test CD with a sinewave at 0dB
and adjust the volume control for 20v rms or 28v peak (50w into 8ohm),
then treat that as a maximum for the volume knob.
Or better still, make up an attenuated interconnect so that with the
volume turned up to 11, it gives 20v.

This won't stop the amp clipping with both the bass and volume turned up
but you could leave the 'scope connected to watch that.

--
Eiron.

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Serge Auckland" wrote in message
...


"Keith G" wrote in message
...

I've bulked up summat awful again, so it's time for another clearout/
kit reduction!

Lots of nice things on my new, permanent Items For Sale page:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/item...emsforsale.htm


No prices (what's the point?) - open to a good old haggle on most
things!!

:-)

If you're selling your Technics amp and the Dynacos, what will you drive
your TLS80s with, not a SET?



I certainly can, but right this minute I have my little (50 Watt?) Denon
PMA-655R on them - I doubt many could stand the *loudness* of a CD at half
volume on that setup!

I owned TLS80 mk11s about 15 years ago. About that time I acquired a Sugden
A25. At twelve o'clock they were really loud (ok, it started ay six!).
My second pair of speakers were MS Pageant 11's, rated at 90/watt/metre. In
spite of an improvement of 5dB, the amp could not drive them to serious
levels.
My conclusion was that perhaps the IMF's were a benign load which the amp
could drive.
Perhaps efficiency isn't everything?

In any case, the IMF is a really good speaker, in the right room!

"Bruce Lankford" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Serge Auckland" wrote


If you're selling your Technics amp and the Dynacos, what will you
drive your TLS80s with, not a SET?



I certainly can, but right this minute I have my little (50 Watt?)
Denon PMA-655R on them - I doubt many could stand the *loudness* of a
CD at half volume on that setup!

I owned TLS80 mk11s about 15 years ago. About that time I acquired a
Sugden A25. At twelve o'clock they were really loud (ok, it started ay
six!).
My second pair of speakers were MS Pageant 11's, rated at
90/watt/metre. In spite of an improvement of 5dB, the amp could not
drive them to serious levels.
My conclusion was that perhaps the IMF's were a benign load which the
amp could drive.
Perhaps efficiency isn't everything?

In any case, the IMF is a really good speaker, in the right room!



OK, using the same Oi Va Voi disk I hooked up the following amps using
the Pre Out from the Denon and made direct comparisons:

2A3 SET - fine ('normal' level of loudness for most) at 9 o'clock but
clipping by 10 o'clock.

300B SET - loud (too loud for most) at 9 o'clock but clipping by 10
o'clock again.

Dynacos - fine (but not as loud as the 300Bs) at 9 o'clock, loud at 10
o'clock, far too loud at 12 o'clock, clipping starts at about 2 o'clock.

Denon's own power section - fine (normal) at 9 o'clock, too loud at 12
o'clock, clipping starts at about 2 o'clock


My own conclusion is that, with the possible exception of the 300B SET
(a strange beast that one, but possibly my favourite), just about any of
the amps are usable for a 'normal' level of listening and that (my own
taste here) the valves offer a richer, more engaging/'natural' sound
than the Denon on its own. I couldn't include the 100W Technics
pre/power as it is put away pro temps, but I remember it to be optimum
at the 11 o'clock setting (which, I believe, the bumf says somewhere
that that is where 'optimum' is designed to be ??), very loud thereafter
and I never had the nerve to push it to clipping, given the age of the
speakers!

I agree with what you say though - where the performance of these amp
may well have followed form (in keeping with conventional wisdom) it
doesn't necessarily mean the *quality* of the sound will necessarily
follow the same pattern; in that sequence of testing. the *memory* of
the sound from the 2A3 SET (albeit at a reduced level) lingers on....