In article , RPS wrote:
If you were not present at the original recording session, with good
memory, how can you judge the accuracy of the reproduction?

A good question which I have often asked myself too. I don't have a
complete answer above the trite "I know it when I hear it" but I do have
some indicators which (I think) work for me. It's entirely possible
this is just my own personal definition with which no-one else will agree.

First of all transparency or neutrality to me means the absence of
obvious defects. For example:

- tonal imbalance: too much ("impressive?") bass; too much treble
smoothness or contrariwise too much "spit" in the treble

- boxiness: a sort of grey or tonally coloured resonance which
can also leave sound behind, blurring the boundaries between the
musical notes where there should be more silence.

It's a question of trying well-known recordings, especially if you have
heard them on more than one system - even if it's only having listened
on your own system, in the car, on headphones or (better) on someone
else's system. I have a few which I take with me to auditions.

As others have said voices are something everyone knows well from
long real-life listening experience. Voices sounding just right is
a good indication of accuracy. There are also defects to avoid here,
for example:

- excessive sibilance: can arise from a specific form of tonal
imbalance with a mid-upper frequency overemphasis

From attending concerts you will have an idea of the natural range of
sounds especially from acoustic instruments. I find small percussion
instruments if they sound natural to give a good indication of dynamic
accuracy.

Well, that's some of it. However it's your ears which matter and your
own likes and dislikes which are much more relevant than mine.

--
John Phillips

"RPS" wrote in message
...
This is inspired by the recent discussion on possible replacement for
my Spendor BC1's (thanks for all the comments in that thread):

Many of you have commented on a speaker being more or less
neutral/accurate than others.

If you were not present at the original recording session, with good
memory, how can you judge the accuracy of the reproduction?


You can't.


I mean, I can tell that Spendor, Proac, and Dynaudio are sounding
different, but don't I need to be familiar with the actual original
sound to judge which one is accurate or uncolored?


Yes, of course, how else will you know?

Keith G wrote:

If you were not present at the original recording session, with good
memory, how can you judge the accuracy of the reproduction?
You can't.

I mean, I can tell that Spendor, Proac, and Dynaudio are sounding
different, but don't I need to be familiar with the actual original
sound to judge which one is accurate or uncolored?
Yes, of course, how else will you know?

However, many critics and audiophiles audition speakers and pronounce
one to be accurate or not, colored or uncolored, including in this
forum.

I was wondering what such assessments are about? Is it in the end a
different, if somewhat misleading, was of saying you simply like or
don't like a particular speaker?

"RPS" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

If you were not present at the original recording session, with good
memory, how can you judge the accuracy of the reproduction?
You can't.

I mean, I can tell that Spendor, Proac, and Dynaudio are sounding
different, but don't I need to be familiar with the actual original
sound to judge which one is accurate or uncolored?
Yes, of course, how else will you know?

However, many critics and audiophiles audition speakers and pronounce
one to be accurate or not, colored or uncolored, including in this
forum.


So they do. (It's no bad thing - when people stop criticising stuff we'll
get fobbed off with any old crap on a 'take it or leave it' basis.)



I was wondering what such assessments are about? Is it in the end a
different, if somewhat misleading, was of saying you simply like or
don't like a particular speaker?


Yes. In the end, as listeners, they are only expressing their own opinions.

When a speaker is designed and manufactured it will be made to sound as
close as possible to that particular manufacturers 'house sound' either to
create sales on a large scale or (unusually) a sound which they think is
superior whether the mass markets are likely to take to it or not.

The amusing thing is, that by the time many people have bought and upgraded
a number of pairs of speakers (probably getting more and more expensive as
they go along) searching for 'perfection' they could probably have had a
pair tailored to their very own requirements by a capable builder for less
money! (If not rolled up their sleeves and built their own, which is not
easy however......!)

The trick with speakers is to stop listening to them and just keep chucking
the music on. Do that for long enough and any old pair of dogs will become
your 'reference'. Start with a pair of attractive and well-built speakers of
the right size (a glance will tell you) from a Name you respect and just
stick with them. Bear the following in mind and you won't go far wrong:


Little speakers can be very good until bigger speakers come along. (Size
*always* matters....)

Wood veneer sounds much better than vinyl wrap.

Floorstanders sound much better than standmounters or bookshelf jobbies.

Light wood veneer sounds better than dark wood veneer.

Silver grille cloth sounds better than black.

English speakers sound better than those from any other country.

Biwirable speakers are much better than non-biwirable ones.


That's about it AFAIK - did I miss anything obvious?

Keith G wrote:

...
The trick with speakers is to stop listening to them and just keep chucking
the music on. Do that for long enough and any old pair of dogs will become
your 'reference'. Start with a pair of attractive and well-built speakers of
the right size (a glance will tell you) from a Name you respect and just
stick with them. Bear the following in mind and you won't go far wrong:

Little speakers can be very good until bigger speakers come along. (Size
*always* matters....)

Wood veneer sounds much better than vinyl wrap.

Floorstanders sound much better than standmounters or bookshelf jobbies.

Light wood veneer sounds better than dark wood veneer.

Silver grille cloth sounds better than black.

English speakers sound better than those from any other country.

I think this is true, especially at my budget. I have heard great
American speakers but nothing I could think of buying. However, some of
my formerly English-camp friends have switched to Dynaudio.

Biwirable speakers are much better than non-biwirable ones.

Interesting you don't say "biwired" but just "biwirable". Presumably
because if somebody has taken the trouble make them biwirable, they
might also have taken the trouble to do other things right??

Anyway, do you have any advice on my original query (posted in another
thread): I have a 20+ yr old Spendor BC1 pair. Have been quite happy
with it but would like to find out what would be candiates to make a
meaningful upgrade ("one" step up) and what would be the budget for
such an upgrade in today's market? My short list to audition, drwan up
from others' suggestions, includes Proac, Dynaudio as well as Spendor's
own S6 (although it is in the process of being replaced by S6e).

Raghu

"RPS" wrote


snippage


I think this is true, especially at my budget. I have heard great
American speakers but nothing I could think of buying. However, some of
my formerly English-camp friends have switched to Dynaudio.


You're American?

Don't **** about then - avail yourself of a pair of Mr Lansing's K2's.......

(Sell a kidney or rob people if you have to!)



Biwirable speakers are much better than non-biwirable ones.

Interesting you don't say "biwired" but just "biwirable". Presumably
because if somebody has taken the trouble make them biwirable, they
might also have taken the trouble to do other things right??


Good thinking (well spotted on the grammar, btw) - the same goes for a real
wood veneer. Not a guarantee, of course......


Anyway, do you have any advice on my original query (posted in another
thread): I have a 20+ yr old Spendor BC1 pair. Have been quite happy
with it but would like to find out what would be candiates to make a
meaningful upgrade ("one" step up) and what would be the budget for
such an upgrade in today's market? My short list to audition, drwan up
from others' suggestions, includes Proac, Dynaudio as well as Spendor's
own S6 (although it is in the process of being replaced by S6e).


Dynaudio? - They would be perfect if they had Focal drivers! ;-)

Can't comment on the Spendors as I have no experience, but follow the other
posters advice and get a selection of candidates HOME to try them out -
nowhere else will do. (If you want Brit speakers that have most of my
criteria covered add Bowers & Wilkins to your list and climb as far up their
tree as funds will allow.....)

"RPS" wrote


snippage


I think this is true, especially at my budget. I have heard great
American speakers but nothing I could think of buying. However, some of
my formerly English-camp friends have switched to Dynaudio.


You're American?

Don't **** about then - avail yourself of a pair of Mr Lansing's K2's.......

(Sell a kidney or rob people if you have to!)



Biwirable speakers are much better than non-biwirable ones.

Interesting you don't say "biwired" but just "biwirable". Presumably
because if somebody has taken the trouble make them biwirable, they
might also have taken the trouble to do other things right??


Good thinking (well spotted on the grammar, btw) - the same goes for a real
wood veneer. Not a guarantee, of course......


Anyway, do you have any advice on my original query (posted in another
thread): I have a 20+ yr old Spendor BC1 pair. Have been quite happy
with it but would like to find out what would be candiates to make a
meaningful upgrade ("one" step up) and what would be the budget for
such an upgrade in today's market? My short list to audition, drwan up
from others' suggestions, includes Proac, Dynaudio as well as Spendor's
own S6 (although it is in the process of being replaced by S6e).


Dynaudio? - They would be perfect if they had Focal drivers! ;-)

Can't comment on the Spendors as I have no experience, but follow the other
posters advice and get a selection of candidates HOME to try them out -
nowhere else will do. (If you want Brit speakers that have most of my
criteria covered add Bowers & Wilkins to your list and climb as far up their
tree as funds will allow.....)

Keith G wrote:

...
The trick with speakers is to stop listening to them and just keep chucking
the music on. Do that for long enough and any old pair of dogs will become
your 'reference'. Start with a pair of attractive and well-built speakers of
the right size (a glance will tell you) from a Name you respect and just
stick with them. Bear the following in mind and you won't go far wrong:

Little speakers can be very good until bigger speakers come along. (Size
*always* matters....)

Wood veneer sounds much better than vinyl wrap.

Floorstanders sound much better than standmounters or bookshelf jobbies.

Light wood veneer sounds better than dark wood veneer.

Silver grille cloth sounds better than black.

English speakers sound better than those from any other country.

I think this is true, especially at my budget. I have heard great
American speakers but nothing I could think of buying. However, some of
my formerly English-camp friends have switched to Dynaudio.

Biwirable speakers are much better than non-biwirable ones.

Interesting you don't say "biwired" but just "biwirable". Presumably
because if somebody has taken the trouble make them biwirable, they
might also have taken the trouble to do other things right??

Anyway, do you have any advice on my original query (posted in another
thread): I have a 20+ yr old Spendor BC1 pair. Have been quite happy
with it but would like to find out what would be candiates to make a
meaningful upgrade ("one" step up) and what would be the budget for
such an upgrade in today's market? My short list to audition, drwan up
from others' suggestions, includes Proac, Dynaudio as well as Spendor's
own S6 (although it is in the process of being replaced by S6e).

Raghu

"RPS" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

If you were not present at the original recording session, with good
memory, how can you judge the accuracy of the reproduction?
You can't.

I mean, I can tell that Spendor, Proac, and Dynaudio are sounding
different, but don't I need to be familiar with the actual original
sound to judge which one is accurate or uncolored?
Yes, of course, how else will you know?

However, many critics and audiophiles audition speakers and pronounce
one to be accurate or not, colored or uncolored, including in this
forum.


So they do. (It's no bad thing - when people stop criticising stuff we'll
get fobbed off with any old crap on a 'take it or leave it' basis.)



I was wondering what such assessments are about? Is it in the end a
different, if somewhat misleading, was of saying you simply like or
don't like a particular speaker?


Yes. In the end, as listeners, they are only expressing their own opinions.

When a speaker is designed and manufactured it will be made to sound as
close as possible to that particular manufacturers 'house sound' either to
create sales on a large scale or (unusually) a sound which they think is
superior whether the mass markets are likely to take to it or not.

The amusing thing is, that by the time many people have bought and upgraded
a number of pairs of speakers (probably getting more and more expensive as
they go along) searching for 'perfection' they could probably have had a
pair tailored to their very own requirements by a capable builder for less
money! (If not rolled up their sleeves and built their own, which is not
easy however......!)

The trick with speakers is to stop listening to them and just keep chucking
the music on. Do that for long enough and any old pair of dogs will become
your 'reference'. Start with a pair of attractive and well-built speakers of
the right size (a glance will tell you) from a Name you respect and just
stick with them. Bear the following in mind and you won't go far wrong:


Little speakers can be very good until bigger speakers come along. (Size
*always* matters....)

Wood veneer sounds much better than vinyl wrap.

Floorstanders sound much better than standmounters or bookshelf jobbies.

Light wood veneer sounds better than dark wood veneer.

Silver grille cloth sounds better than black.

English speakers sound better than those from any other country.

Biwirable speakers are much better than non-biwirable ones.


That's about it AFAIK - did I miss anything obvious?

Keith G wrote:

If you were not present at the original recording session, with good
memory, how can you judge the accuracy of the reproduction?
You can't.

I mean, I can tell that Spendor, Proac, and Dynaudio are sounding
different, but don't I need to be familiar with the actual original
sound to judge which one is accurate or uncolored?
Yes, of course, how else will you know?

However, many critics and audiophiles audition speakers and pronounce
one to be accurate or not, colored or uncolored, including in this
forum.

I was wondering what such assessments are about? Is it in the end a
different, if somewhat misleading, was of saying you simply like or
don't like a particular speaker?