I'm tempted (that is to say planning) to add a 'multi-pattern tube mic'
to my collection and, until just now, was mystified as to how a mic like
this one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA:IT&ih=005


....could provide the various patterns (with in-between settings, it
appears) simply by fiddling with the power supply?? Anyway, a bit of
Googling has cleared this up (to a point) with information like this...

http://www.tvtechnology.com/pages/s.0071/t.433.html

http://www.tonmeister.ca/main/textbook/node469.html


Now the questions a Is there any downside? Are there any reasons to
avoid these 'dual/variable capsule' arrangements? (Especially at the the
lower price point of these cheerfully cheep chinky chappies, or is it
like everything else from the Land Of The Noodle - if the basic
principle is sound, one takes one's chances, sucks it and sees...??)

The alternative is to stick to a straightforward cardioid design like
this one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA:IT&ih=005


Suggestions/caveats welcome....

In article , Keith G
scribeth thus

I'm tempted (that is to say planning) to add a 'multi-pattern tube mic'
to my collection and, until just now, was mystified as to how a mic like
this one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...81&ssPa geNam
e=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=005


...could provide the various patterns (with in-between settings, it
appears) simply by fiddling with the power supply?? Anyway, a bit of
Googling has cleared this up (to a point) with information like this...

http://www.tvtechnology.com/pages/s.0071/t.433.html

http://www.tonmeister.ca/main/textbook/node469.html


Now the questions a Is there any downside? Are there any reasons to
avoid these 'dual/variable capsule' arrangements? (Especially at the the
lower price point of these cheerfully cheep chinky chappies, or is it
like everything else from the Land Of The Noodle - if the basic
principle is sound, one takes one's chances, sucks it and sees...??)

The alternative is to stick to a straightforward cardioid design like
this one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...14&ssPa geNam
e=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=005


Suggestions/caveats welcome....



Ermm.. All this recording gear.. When's our Keith going to have his
mobile recording wagon on the road?..

Perhaps it could go on the side of the motahbike...
--
Tony Sayer

In article ,
Keith G wrote:

I'm tempted (that is to say planning) to add a 'multi-pattern tube mic'
to my collection and, until just now, was mystified as to how a mic like
this one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA:IT&ih=005


...could provide the various patterns (with in-between settings, it
appears) simply by fiddling with the power supply?? Anyway, a bit of
Googling has cleared this up (to a point) with information like this...

http://www.tvtechnology.com/pages/s.0071/t.433.html

http://www.tonmeister.ca/main/textbook/node469.html

If you plot out the x and y axis of both an omni and figure of eight then
add them together you'll see where a cardiod comes from. Indeed one of the
first basic such types was the STC 4033 (guiness bottle) which was an
'apple and biscuit' moving coil omni (STC 4021) combined with a ribbon
(STC 4038) - the latter being a production version of the BBC PGS.


Now the questions a Is there any downside? Are there any reasons to
avoid these 'dual/variable capsule' arrangements? (Especially at the the
lower price point of these cheerfully cheep chinky chappies, or is it
like everything else from the Land Of The Noodle - if the basic
principle is sound, one takes one's chances, sucks it and sees...??)

The alternative is to stick to a straightforward cardioid design like
this one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA:IT&ih=005


Suggestions/caveats welcome....

Do you actually need a cardiod? All else being equal it's easier to make a
decent omni. They also give less problems in usage. Of course if you need
the separation in a multi mic setup or want to reduce room acoustics a
cardiod could well be the only way.

The capsule(s) is really what makes a condenser mic - the electronics
should be no problem in this day and age.
Oh - I forgot you like valves. ;-)

--
*OK, so what's the speed of dark? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:

I'm tempted (that is to say planning) to add a 'multi-pattern tube
mic'
to my collection and, until just now, was mystified as to how a mic
like
this one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA:IT&ih=005


...could provide the various patterns (with in-between settings, it
appears) simply by fiddling with the power supply?? Anyway, a bit of
Googling has cleared this up (to a point) with information like
this...

http://www.tvtechnology.com/pages/s.0071/t.433.html

http://www.tonmeister.ca/main/textbook/node469.html

If you plot out the x and y axis of both an omni and figure of eight
then
add them together you'll see where a cardiod comes from. Indeed one of
the
first basic such types was the STC 4033 (guiness bottle) which was an
'apple and biscuit' moving coil omni (STC 4021) combined with a ribbon
(STC 4038) - the latter being a production version of the BBC PGS.


Now the questions a Is there any downside? Are there any reasons
to
avoid these 'dual/variable capsule' arrangements? (Especially at the
the
lower price point of these cheerfully cheep chinky chappies, or is it
like everything else from the Land Of The Noodle - if the basic
principle is sound, one takes one's chances, sucks it and sees...??)

The alternative is to stick to a straightforward cardioid design like
this one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA:IT&ih=005


Suggestions/caveats welcome....

Do you actually need a cardiod? All else being equal it's easier to
make a
decent omni. They also give less problems in usage. Of course if you
need
the separation in a multi mic setup or want to reduce room acoustics a
cardiod could well be the only way.

The capsule(s) is really what makes a condenser mic - the electronics
should be no problem in this day and age.
Oh - I forgot you like valves. ;-)



Well that was all very interesting Plowie, but I'm not sure what the
point of it was - my questions were specifically in respect of a
'multi-pattern tube mic' (as above)...??

Anyway, FWIW, I have made a grab for this one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWN:IT&ih=011

- as it seemed to offer the features I want to try out and was (believe
it or not) a more appealing shape than some of the others!! :-)

(Far too many cheap valve mics to choose from on eBay atm!!)

At the price it won't be too much of a disaster if it turms out to be
poop (which I suspect it won't) - my concern has been/was that the
switching on the power supply to invoke the various patterns might be
shoddy and could only introduce noise &c. into the foodchain. We shall
see - I can only say that I have been very pleased with the Chinese mics
so far, so here's hoping!

Looking forward to some comparisons now (Chinese, Russian, valve, FET,
ribbon, various patterns &c.) - I'd post the results if I thought there
was a single soul here who could GAS...

In article ,
Keith G wrote:

[snip]

Well that was all very interesting Plowie, but I'm not sure what the
point of it was - my questions were specifically in respect of a
'multi-pattern tube mic' (as above)...??

Sigh. That's what I was trying to explain. The various patterns are a
combination of omni and figure of eight capsules outputs added in
different amounts. Which can be done by 'a' switch on the capsule or
elsewhere. With a valve mic you need a power supply with multi-core cable
so it makes sense to have the DP switch on that - handy if the mic is
slung out of reach. Early valve mics like the AKG C12 had the same sort of
arrangement.

A solid state mic would be phantom powered off the mixer etc - only a
normal (twin and screen) mic cable - so the DP switch is normally on the
mic itself.

But on second thoughts I should have saved my typing fingers.

--
*Who are these kids and why are they calling me Mom?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:

[snip]

Well that was all very interesting Plowie, but I'm not sure what the
point of it was - my questions were specifically in respect of a
'multi-pattern tube mic' (as above)...??

Sigh. That's what I was trying to explain. The various patterns are a
combination of omni and figure of eight capsules outputs added in
different amounts. Which can be done by 'a' switch on the capsule or
elsewhere.


If you had bothered to follow my links you would have seen that I had
already discovered that...??


With a valve mic you need a power supply with multi-core cable
so it makes sense to have the DP switch on that - handy if the mic is
slung out of reach.


Hadn't thought of that, though....


Early valve mics like the AKG C12 had the same sort of
arrangement.

A solid state mic would be phantom powered off the mixer etc - only a
normal (twin and screen) mic cable - so the DP switch is normally on
the
mic itself.

But on second thoughts I should have saved my typing fingers.


Cheer up - I enjoyed following the model numbers of the mics you
mentioned and found a couple of very interesting sites! Here's one you
might like, if you don't already know it:

http://www.btinternet.com/~roger.bec...csmenu.htm#top

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

I'm tempted (that is to say planning) to add a 'multi-pattern tube mic' to
my collection and, until just now, was mystified as to how a mic like this
one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA:IT&ih=005

...could provide the various patterns (with in-between settings, it
appears) simply by fiddling with the power supply??

Without looking I'll guess that this is a condenser mic with a number of
capsules.

By varying the polarizing voltage to the various capsules, their output can
be varied. The different patterns result from how their outputs sum up.


Anyway, a bit of Googling has cleared this up (to a point) with
information like this...

http://www.tvtechnology.com/pages/s.0071/t.433.html

http://www.tonmeister.ca/main/textbook/node469.html


Now the questions a Is there any downside?

There are two common ways to make mics with different pickup patterns.

One is to use a single capsule that has the desired pickup pattern because
of its acoustical properties.

The other is to use multiple capsules, and add the outputs of the capsules
in different ways.

The results of using these two different approaches are not always
identically the same.

Are there any reasons to avoid these 'dual/variable capsule' arrangements?
(Especially at the the lower price point of these cheerfully cheep chinky
chappies, or is it like everything else from the Land Of The Noodle - if
the basic principle is sound, one takes one's chances, sucks it and
sees...??)

Now we compare and contrast using two half-priced parts or one full-price
part. All other things being equal, the one full-price part will perform
better. However the better may be too subtle to appreciate.

The alternative is to stick to a straightforward cardioid design like this
one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA:IT&ih=005


Suggestions/caveats welcome....

Bag the tubes.

If you don't know what you are doing, stick with known quantities. That
means there is something to be said for a known brand with a track record of
sorts like Studio Projects, versus a relatively unknown brand like "Golden
Age Project".

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..


snip


Suggestions/caveats welcome....

Bag the tubes.


I suspect that means exactly the opposite in the US to what it does in
the UK...



If you don't know what you are doing, stick with known quantities.
That means there is something to be said for a known brand with a
track record of sorts like Studio Projects, versus a relatively
unknown brand like "Golden Age Project".



Too late, I already plumped for another unknown! (Alctron??) Asitappens,
I already have a 'Golden Age Project' mic - the 'active' ribbon in these
pix:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Mics01.JPG

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Mics02.JPG *


....and I hafta say it sounds fine to me.

Build (heft) and appearance is good, but the thread in the yoke for the
mic stand is very shallow and it is easily tightened 'over centre'! The
flight case and padded pouch, along with the captive/removable lead was
a very nice surprise at the price, but the whole point with this cheap
Chinese kit (whatever it is) is that it means one can experiment without
risking too much. Atm, prices for just about anything are at about
10-20% of the *real deal* and performance (hopefully) not so far behind
it won't give you at least good idea whilst on the learning curve - I
say grab it while you can!!


*Yes, I know about not storing ribbons on their side (or banging them
down hard)..!!

"Keith G" wrote


Too late, I already plumped for another unknown! (Alctron??)
Asitappens, I already have a 'Golden Age Project' mic - the 'active'
ribbon in these pix:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Mics01.JPG

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Mics02.JPG *


...and I hafta say it sounds fine to me.



OK, *it* doesn't sound at all - you know what I mean. Actually, I'm
fairly certain it was used for this track:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/reco...%20Prelude.mp3

and it was good enough for Swim to say she didn't like the sound of the
clart/her playing - too *sour*...??

(No worries - the 'recording season' will soon be with us and we'll be
working on it! :-)

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
*Yes, I know about not storing ribbons on their side (or banging them
down hard)..!!

When I worked for BBC TV, ribbons - mainly the 4038 - were still very much
in use and were always stored on their side. And used near horizontal as
audience reaction mics.

--
*If a turtle doesn't have a shell, is he homeless or naked?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.