Patrick Turner wrote:

I did like BSA and Matchless and Norton, oh, and Vincent. They made
music.
Especially The Vincent, and at 166MPH on Conrod Straight at Bathurst.

The older you get the faster you were. Let's have some more details.

--
Eiron.

"Eiron" wrote in message
...
Patrick Turner wrote:

I did like BSA and Matchless and Norton, oh, and Vincent. They made
music.
Especially The Vincent, and at 166MPH on Conrod Straight at Bathurst.

The older you get the faster you were. Let's have some more details.



Yes, I'd be interested to hear how they clocked the speed - especially
as the standard speedos were only calibrated to 150 mph (AFAIK)....??

Keith G wrote:

"Eiron" wrote in message
...
Patrick Turner wrote:

I did like BSA and Matchless and Norton, oh, and Vincent. They made
music.
Especially The Vincent, and at 166MPH on Conrod Straight at Bathurst.

The older you get the faster you were. Let's have some more details.

Yes, I'd be interested to hear how they clocked the speed - especially
as the standard speedos were only calibrated to 150 mph (AFAIK)....??

Speeds were recorded by the marshals on the course.

On the day I was there his speed was announced on the PA.
Once Eric hit Conrod straight he just rocketed away from all the others.

The single 500 7R-AJS and Nortons were doing 125mph, maybe more, im Ron
Toomb's case.

The Conrod Straight is 1.9km long, or 1.2 miles, and at that time was
one long straight
without the chicane put there later.

So to get an extra 41mph with 1,000cc seems about right.
The bike wasn't a stock standard Vincent.

I have no idea what had been done to it.

Bear in mind Bert Munro's speed on a highly modified
Indian on the salt at Utah.

He still has the record for the World's Fastest Indian.

I have not checked the racing achive records of the relevant clubs,
but your'e welcome to search.

Patrick Turner.

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...


Keith G wrote:

"Eiron" wrote in message
...
Patrick Turner wrote:

I did like BSA and Matchless and Norton, oh, and Vincent. They
made
music.
Especially The Vincent, and at 166MPH on Conrod Straight at
Bathurst.

The older you get the faster you were. Let's have some more
details.

Yes, I'd be interested to hear how they clocked the speed -
especially
as the standard speedos were only calibrated to 150 mph (AFAIK)....??

Speeds were recorded by the marshals on the course.


OK, I didn't realise you were talking about a *timed event*!



On the day I was there his speed was announced on the PA.
Once Eric hit Conrod straight he just rocketed away from all the
others.

The single 500 7R-AJS and Nortons were doing 125mph, maybe more, im
Ron
Toomb's case.

The Conrod Straight is 1.9km long, or 1.2 miles, and at that time was
one long straight
without the chicane put there later.

So to get an extra 41mph with 1,000cc seems about right.
The bike wasn't a stock standard Vincent.

I have no idea what had been done to it.


Blower?



Bear in mind Bert Munro's speed on a highly modified
Indian on the salt at Utah.

He still has the record for the World's Fastest Indian.


Love the film and watch it on a regular basis, that bloke is ever a hero
in my book - even if the movie fudges the facts!

When I was a schoolkid my school was two doors up from the then
recently-closed Vincent factory and opposite, over the 'bowling green',
was George Brown's motorcycle shop. I was the only snot-nosed kid he let
hang around in there, looking at his 'Neros' and asking hundreds of
stoopid questions:

http://www.motorbike-search-engine.c...uper_nero.html

(Didn't realise/know back then the orange patches on his face was early
*plastic surgery*!!)

See: "George had a secret ambition to be the first British rider to top
200mph on British soil, over a measured distance. He had already been
docked on Super Nero over a finish line at Elvington Speed Meeting at
236mph." I also harbour a secret ambition to do 200mph (just the once)
on a bike before it's too late, but not sure I'll ever get it together.
My present bike:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/mybi...%20GSX1400.jpg

....easily (and regularly) beats the above-mentioned 'AJS and Norton'
speeds (usually less than 3 minutes from me leaving my garage and after
a good warm-up, naturally!) -it's got the grunt but doesn't have the top
end....

Or a fairing....

Keith G wrote:

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...


Keith G wrote:

"Eiron" wrote in message
...
Patrick Turner wrote:

I did like BSA and Matchless and Norton, oh, and Vincent. They
made
music.
Especially The Vincent, and at 166MPH on Conrod Straight at
Bathurst.

The older you get the faster you were. Let's have some more
details.

Yes, I'd be interested to hear how they clocked the speed -
especially
as the standard speedos were only calibrated to 150 mph (AFAIK)....??

Speeds were recorded by the marshals on the course.

OK, I didn't realise you were talking about a *timed event*!


On the day I was there his speed was announced on the PA.
Once Eric hit Conrod straight he just rocketed away from all the
others.

The single 500 7R-AJS and Nortons were doing 125mph, maybe more, im
Ron
Toomb's case.

The Conrod Straight is 1.9km long, or 1.2 miles, and at that time was
one long straight
without the chicane put there later.

So to get an extra 41mph with 1,000cc seems about right.
The bike wasn't a stock standard Vincent.

I have no idea what had been done to it.

Blower?


I have no idea.


Bear in mind Bert Munro's speed on a highly modified
Indian on the salt at Utah.

He still has the record for the World's Fastest Indian.

Love the film and watch it on a regular basis, that bloke is ever a hero
in my book - even if the movie fudges the facts!

Yes, that movie like all movies mucks about with
the procession of events in Bert's life, but 2 hours isn't long
enough to have everything in it.

But I think you'll find Bert's Indian was the fastest anyone got an
Indian to go.

Plenty of much faster bikes now, some with triple harley engines and so
on...

But Bert was just a low key poor ******* from a backwater country,
and he just goes to the US to go a little fast, and at a rather advanced
age.

Its a risk, life.

Hubert Opperman, the great Australian cyclist of the 1920s and 30s
said as he got older, " when your'e old, you have to be careful.
An old man is like an old tyre, and might be designed to stand the
pressure, but
maybe it'll burst. One never knows..."

He died on his exercise bike at 91.

What a man!




When I was a schoolkid my school was two doors up from the then
recently-closed Vincent factory and opposite, over the 'bowling green',
was George Brown's motorcycle shop. I was the only snot-nosed kid he let
hang around in there, looking at his 'Neros' and asking hundreds of
stoopid questions:

http://www.motorbike-search-engine.c...uper_nero.html

(Didn't realise/know back then the orange patches on his face was early
*plastic surgery*!!)

See: "George had a secret ambition to be the first British rider to top
200mph on British soil, over a measured distance. He had already been
docked on Super Nero over a finish line at Elvington Speed Meeting at
236mph." I also harbour a secret ambition to do 200mph (just the once)
on a bike before it's too late, but not sure I'll ever get it together.
My present bike:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/mybi...%20GSX1400.jpg

...easily (and regularly) beats the above-mentioned 'AJS and Norton'
speeds (usually less than 3 minutes from me leaving my garage and after
a good warm-up, naturally!) -it's got the grunt but doesn't have the top
end....

Or a fairing....

That Nero was somethin.

IMHO, the Suzuki lacks the appeal of a large mainly amateur built v
twin.

Its what you do with the cc you got that counts, not so much the speed
go.

If you got a record riding a tiny tidler 50cc 4 stroke V twin, or even a
V6,
its really something, and you get to do mosquito sound effects.

But Nero must have swallowed years of a guy's life in time spent.

None of this bolt on a fairing, jump on and ride fast business.

Probably the latest Honda single 600c engines with 4 valve heads are
more powerful than
most home made or altered manx nortons or 7R ajs ever were.

In the old days they still had to learn that revs with an over square
engine that breathed well was the only way to real speed,
but when they built something to rev, old materials shattered too easy,
and at 125mph, an engine seizure can make life very precarious.

I'm now quite happy on my push bike, well away from the roads if
possible.

Patrick Turner.

"Patrick Turner" wrote


Yes, that movie like all movies mucks about with
the procession of events in Bert's life, but 2 hours isn't long
enough to have everything in it.


No, but I think it got the flavour over quite well. The bit that
irritates me is the actual speed runs are over all too quick at the end!



But I think you'll find Bert's Indian was the fastest anyone got an
Indian to go.


Sure.


Plenty of much faster bikes now, some with triple harley engines and
so
on...

But Bert was just a low key poor ******* from a backwater country,
and he just goes to the US to go a little fast, and at a rather
advanced
age.

Its a risk, life.


No, not always - life on the end of a silly games console is low-risk
compared to climbing on a (what?) thirty year old, hand-built bitsa bike
and punching it 200mph on a salt flat....



Hubert Opperman, the great Australian cyclist of the 1920s and 30s
said as he got older, " when your'e old, you have to be careful.
An old man is like an old tyre, and might be designed to stand the
pressure, but
maybe it'll burst. One never knows..."

He died on his exercise bike at 91.

What a man!


This bloke was a bit of a *geezer* too:

http://www.bikereader.com/contributo...nd/murphy.html


That Nero was somethin.


Quite tiny, standing next to it actually!



IMHO, the Suzuki lacks the appeal of a large mainly amateur built v
twin.


Of course...


In the old days they still had to learn that revs with an over square
engine that breathed well was the only way to real speed,
but when they built something to rev, old materials shattered too
easy,
and at 125mph, an engine seizure can make life very precarious.


Today it's mostly a question of fuelling and ignition mapping - damn
near anything'll do a hundred if set up for it!



I'm now quite happy on my push bike, well away from the roads if
possible.


**** bicycling - far too dangerous! ;-)

Keith G wrote:

"Patrick Turner" wrote

Yes, that movie like all movies mucks about with
the procession of events in Bert's life, but 2 hours isn't long
enough to have everything in it.

No, but I think it got the flavour over quite well. The bit that
irritates me is the actual speed runs are over all too quick at the end!


But I think you'll find Bert's Indian was the fastest anyone got an
Indian to go.

Sure.


Plenty of much faster bikes now, some with triple harley engines and
so
on...

But Bert was just a low key poor ******* from a backwater country,
and he just goes to the US to go a little fast, and at a rather
advanced
age.

Its a risk, life.

No, not always - life on the end of a silly games console is low-risk
compared to climbing on a (what?) thirty year old, hand-built bitsa bike
and punching it 200mph on a salt flat....


Hubert Opperman, the great Australian cyclist of the 1920s and 30s
said as he got older, " when your'e old, you have to be careful.
An old man is like an old tyre, and might be designed to stand the
pressure, but
maybe it'll burst. One never knows..."

He died on his exercise bike at 91.

What a man!

This bloke was a bit of a *geezer* too:

http://www.bikereader.com/contributo...nd/murphy.html

That Nero was somethin.

Quite tiny, standing next to it actually!


IMHO, the Suzuki lacks the appeal of a large mainly amateur built v
twin.

Of course...

In the old days they still had to learn that revs with an over square
engine that breathed well was the only way to real speed,
but when they built something to rev, old materials shattered too
easy,
and at 125mph, an engine seizure can make life very precarious.

Today it's mostly a question of fuelling and ignition mapping - damn
near anything'll do a hundred if set up for it!


I'm now quite happy on my push bike, well away from the roads if
possible.

**** bicycling - far too dangerous! ;-)

I'm now mainly into amplifiers, not motorcycles really, which are toys.

Bicycles amplify distance travelled by the leg.

But yes, bicycles are seen as not safe by many ppl.

But here we have many km of cycle paths well away from roads
so cycling is a real pleasure.

I keep fit on a bicycle, on a motobike or in my car
I just get fat.

Patrick Turner.

Eiron wrote:

Patrick Turner wrote:

I did like BSA and Matchless and Norton, oh, and Vincent. They made
music.
Especially The Vincent, and at 166MPH on Conrod Straight at Bathurst.

The older you get the faster you were. Let's have some more details.

I didn't ride the Vincent at that speed at Bathurst in about 1965.

But Eric Debenham did.

He was a privateer motorcyclist who at that time owned a stable
of single and twin Vincents.

And he rarely ever bothered finishing a race on the twin, after setting
the lap record several times
with the twin much modded Rapide, and leaving everyone else on crap like
hotted up road bikes by Triumph and Matchless far behind.
He'd claim mechanical problems, and sometimes they were genuine claims,
as occasioanally things did prevent such blistering speed.
He held the outright lap record at Bathurst for years; none of the cars
were faster
until they began to use downforce contouring.

Just outside the NSW town of Bathurst is the Mt Panorama course which is
up around the mountain
and along beside some cow paddocks. Its been used for motor racing for
many years.
http://www.bathurst-nsw.com/MtPanorama.html
In 1966 the main straight was a mile or more long, but because of the
absurd
speeds people began to clock, and a number of horrendous accidents, they
whacked a chicane
in the middle of the straight, so high speeds will ever be seen again.

I saw another great guy, Ron Toombs killed on a Yamaha 350 about that
time, when it seized up
coming down the twisty hill bends before the straight.
He slid along the arm-co fence, and hit a tree headfirst at about 80mph,
and wouldn't have felt nuffink.
Ron also rode what was known as the Henderson Matchless, a modified
derivation of 7R-AJS,
but his had a shorter stroke and 4 valves in the head, OHC, and it
really flew, for a 500, thanks to Hendo's tuning abilities.
But then the japanese bikes were just starting to eclipse the
four strokes and the Yammy 350cc 2 stroke was about as quick as the 500
single.

Bathurst used to be the scene of wild riots and very extreme behaviour
when the bikes raced there. The police often lost.

Hundreds of bikies raged up/down the main street of town,
lotsa argy bargy.

In 1966, when I first went to Bathurst on my Matcho 500 single, and went
for a hamburger in town,
a pale blue Ford Customline pulled up and a big fat cop
asked me to leave town pronto.
"You're makin the town look untidy son.." he drawled.

He wasn't the type who'd smile if I'd replied with
"Well I forgot my tuxedo, and the Rolls is being repaired.."

I could have had a field day in a court, because my dad was a Mayor of
Ku-ringai at the time,
and well connected to good lawyers. But I just left, after buying ther
burger off the
nervous greeks in the milkbar.

I was unaware of the history then, but a few years later on another
visit,
the Hell's angels had a field day win when they had police huddled in
fear of their lives for
what was a "colourful night's activities on the mountain". Sticks of
dynamite
and molotov cocktails were used, and part of the police mountain
compound was torched.

Boys will be boys.

The car racing ppl were all nice and tame....

Patrick Turner.








--
Eiron.

Patrick Turner wrote:

Eiron wrote:
Patrick Turner wrote:

I did like BSA and Matchless and Norton, oh, and Vincent. They made
music.
Especially The Vincent, and at 166MPH on Conrod Straight at Bathurst.
The older you get the faster you were. Let's have some more details.

I didn't ride the Vincent at that speed at Bathurst in about 1965.

But Eric Debenham did.

He was a privateer motorcyclist who at that time owned a stable
of single and twin Vincents.

Thanks. I just looked him up on the interweb thingy.
That Norvin wasn't quite a standard Vincent!

While we are on the subject did you know that Jack Findlay died recently?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../04/db0401.xml

--
Eiron.