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Stonker or stinker?
No-one is more aware of the old 'you get what you pay for adage' (or the
various issues with cheep Chinky stuff) than I am, but my curiosity/interest in a valve microphone has had me punting a relatively paltry £132 (inc. postage) on this little lot: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWN:IT&ih=011 Haven't had it going yet but the *apparent* VFM is beyond ludicrous by normal 'valve microphone' standards - if nothing else, at 5 kg for the whole thing (inc. the PS) the weight of the package was a shock: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...0Mic%20Kit.JPG So far, the view inside is more or less what I expected and is not at all disappointing: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...0Inside-01.JPG http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...0Inside-02.JPG I will probably post some clips shortly, in case anyone is interested - my guess (if it works at all) is it'll be at least OK and the 'magazine review' would end up summat like this: "Not up there with the best and not recommended for professional use but, at the price, this Oriental offering cannot be entirely discounted by someone wanting to add the warmth and versatility of of a valve microphone to their Home Studio...." ?? We shall see.... |
Stonker or stinker?
"Keith G" wrote I will probably post some clips shortly, in case anyone is interested - my guess (if it works at all) is it'll be at least OK and the 'magazine review' would end up summat like this: "Not up there with the best and not recommended for professional use but, at the price, this Oriental offering cannot be entirely discounted by someone wanting to add the warmth and versatility of of a valve microphone to their Home Studio...." ?? OK, stick the word 'multi-pattern' in where you think it would have done the most good... |
Stonker or stinker?
On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 12:03:24 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote: No-one is more aware of the old 'you get what you pay for adage' (or the various issues with cheep Chinky stuff) than I am, but my curiosity/interest in a valve microphone has had me punting a relatively paltry £132 (inc. postage) on this little lot: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWN:IT&ih=011 Haven't had it going yet but the *apparent* VFM is beyond ludicrous by normal 'valve microphone' standards - if nothing else, at 5 kg for the whole thing (inc. the PS) the weight of the package was a shock: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...0Mic%20Kit.JPG So far, the view inside is more or less what I expected and is not at all disappointing: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...0Inside-01.JPG That picture is a little worrying. The solder should have wetted all the way through those holes to form a slight fillet on the component side of the board. Can't think why that hasn't happened. The components are very substantial looking, though. http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...0Inside-02.JPG I will probably post some clips shortly, in case anyone is interested - my guess (if it works at all) is it'll be at least OK and the 'magazine review' would end up summat like this: "Not up there with the best and not recommended for professional use but, at the price, this Oriental offering cannot be entirely discounted by someone wanting to add the warmth and versatility of of a valve microphone to their Home Studio...." ?? We shall see.... Stereo, with your best "other" mic on the other channel, please! Place them close together, both facing forwards - ta. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
Stonker or stinker?
"Don Pearce" wrote That picture is a little worrying. The solder should have wetted all the way through those holes to form a slight fillet on the component side of the board. Can't think why that hasn't happened. The components are very substantial looking, though. I know what you mean, but it seems very common and I hafta say I don't worry about seeing solder on the 'component side' of the board if there are no tracks there. (You usually can't solder both sides under the caps in any case...) Stereo, with your best "other" mic on the other channel, please! Place them close together, both facing forwards - ta. Nosso fast - if I include the surprisingly good Samson USB mic, there are now 6 different mics to compare and I don't know which is the best! That's the point of a comparison - I was/am planning to record Swim on the clart (in different pairs to keep down the incidence of variation in her playing) and was going to post the clips to elicit opinion as to which was 'best'..! Also, due to a lack of anything (name, plastic blob, paint spot or whatever) to indicate the 'front' of the mic, I have to mess around (in 'cardioid pattern, I suppose) to find the 'front' of the new mic! More anon.... (Meanwhile, Classic FM plays 'Pirates Of The Caribbean' on an hourly basis....) |
Stonker or stinker?
On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:08:21 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote: "Don Pearce" wrote That picture is a little worrying. The solder should have wetted all the way through those holes to form a slight fillet on the component side of the board. Can't think why that hasn't happened. The components are very substantial looking, though. I know what you mean, but it seems very common and I hafta say I don't worry about seeing solder on the 'component side' of the board if there are no tracks there. (You usually can't solder both sides under the caps in any case...) If the joint is heated properly it should flow though by capillary action - you don't actually solder both sides. Stereo, with your best "other" mic on the other channel, please! Place them close together, both facing forwards - ta. Nosso fast - if I include the surprisingly good Samson USB mic, there are now 6 different mics to compare and I don't know which is the best! That's the point of a comparison - I was/am planning to record Swim on the clart (in different pairs to keep down the incidence of variation in her playing) and was going to post the clips to elicit opinion as to which was 'best'..! tricky one that. And I'm afraid a clart is absolutely the wrong instrument for the job - its tonal and harmonic range is just too limited. The piano would be a much better bet. Also, due to a lack of anything (name, plastic blob, paint spot or whatever) to indicate the 'front' of the mic, I have to mess around (in 'cardioid pattern, I suppose) to find the 'front' of the new mic! You're just going to have to talk to it nicely and find out which ear is deaf. More anon.... (Meanwhile, Classic FM plays 'Pirates Of The Caribbean' on an hourly basis....) The mind boggles. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
Stonker or stinker?
"Don Pearce"
That picture is a little worrying. The solder should have wetted all If the joint is heated properly it should flow though by capillary action - you don't actually solder both sides. ** The Chinese do - wherever a via is really needed 12 year olds with bare feet, standing on a dirt floor in a big galvanised iron shed with a diesel gene droning on outside copying sample PCBs. ........ Phil |
Stonker or stinker?
On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 23:06:05 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote: "Don Pearce" That picture is a little worrying. The solder should have wetted all If the joint is heated properly it should flow though by capillary action - you don't actually solder both sides. ** The Chinese do - wherever a via is really needed 12 year olds with bare feet, standing on a dirt floor in a big galvanised iron shed with a diesel gene droning on outside copying sample PCBs. True enough - I suspect the 12 year olds are the ones approaching retirement age, though. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
Stonker or stinker?
"Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 23:06:05 +1000, "Phil Allison" wrote: "Don Pearce" That picture is a little worrying. The solder should have wetted all If the joint is heated properly it should flow though by capillary action - you don't actually solder both sides. ** The Chinese do - wherever a via is really needed 12 year olds with bare feet, standing on a dirt floor in a big galvanised iron shed with a diesel gene droning on outside copying sample PCBs. True enough - I suspect the 12 year olds are the ones approaching retirement age, though. I haven't been to China and I haven't seen for myself, but I suspect/hope the views expressed above are not true or, if they are, I'm pretty certain they won't last for long. Here's a few 'galvanised iron sheds' to be going on with: http://www.diytrade.com/directory/gl...s_Factory.html http://www.best-portable-dvd-player-...m/about-us.htm http://kwanwa.en.alibaba.com/aboutus.html http://www.besa.org.uk/besa/news/view.jsp?item=313 http://trumpxp.en.alibaba.com/ http://www.business-in-asia.com/suzhou.htm What pious Westeners need to realise is that *today* much of the food they eat and the clothes on their backs from even from respectable, big-name UK stores is produced by what we in the UK would class as 'slave labour' - so much so, in fact, that we import slaves into the UK for our home-produced food and goods! No-one is more aware of the Human Rights issues in China ( and, worse, the Animal Rights issues) but my view is that it's better to have the work and low pay for now than no work at all - after that things can only get better (hopefully) as standards start to climb. Let's face it, there's never going to be a shortage of cheap labour in places like China and India and no nation can go from the 'middle ages' to the planet's *leading economic superpower* without some pain!! For a *non hollywood* movie insight into modern China with its economic contrasts, watch 'Not One Less' (from Zhang Yimou of 'Hero', 'House Of The Flying Daggers' and 'Curse Of The Golden Flower' fame) - quite the best movie I have *ever* seen!! On the microphone front - been through the 1st phase (nasty, tinny sound at 'normal' levels) and the 2nd phase (prolonged, self-generated noise not unlike the landing beach scenes in Saving Private Ryan) and now in the 3rd phase (strangely quiet again and back to the original tinny sound)!! I'm letting it have its head for the moment - it's going to be a bit of a challenge and if anybody was considering going the same route, I would say keep your hand in your pocket, atm!! Question - I have a mic amp here which I don't *think* supplies phantom power - what would happen if I try it and the mic gets phantom power it doesn't need/want? |
Stonker or stinker?
On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:07:34 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote: "Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 23:06:05 +1000, "Phil Allison" wrote: "Don Pearce" That picture is a little worrying. The solder should have wetted all If the joint is heated properly it should flow though by capillary action - you don't actually solder both sides. ** The Chinese do - wherever a via is really needed 12 year olds with bare feet, standing on a dirt floor in a big galvanised iron shed with a diesel gene droning on outside copying sample PCBs. True enough - I suspect the 12 year olds are the ones approaching retirement age, though. I haven't been to China and I haven't seen for myself, but I suspect/hope the views expressed above are not true or, if they are, I'm pretty certain they won't last for long. Here's a few 'galvanised iron sheds' to be going on with: http://www.diytrade.com/directory/gl...s_Factory.html http://www.best-portable-dvd-player-...m/about-us.htm http://kwanwa.en.alibaba.com/aboutus.html http://www.besa.org.uk/besa/news/view.jsp?item=313 http://trumpxp.en.alibaba.com/ http://www.business-in-asia.com/suzhou.htm What pious Westeners need to realise is that *today* much of the food they eat and the clothes on their backs from even from respectable, big-name UK stores is produced by what we in the UK would class as 'slave labour' - so much so, in fact, that we import slaves into the UK for our home-produced food and goods! No-one is more aware of the Human Rights issues in China ( and, worse, the Animal Rights issues) but my view is that it's better to have the work and low pay for now than no work at all - after that things can only get better (hopefully) as standards start to climb. Let's face it, there's never going to be a shortage of cheap labour in places like China and India and no nation can go from the 'middle ages' to the planet's *leading economic superpower* without some pain!! My thoughts on child labour tend towards the pragmatic. If they aren't building mics, the alternative is usually prostitution. Doing nothing when your family is starving is not an option. For a *non hollywood* movie insight into modern China with its economic contrasts, watch 'Not One Less' (from Zhang Yimou of 'Hero', 'House Of The Flying Daggers' and 'Curse Of The Golden Flower' fame) - quite the best movie I have *ever* seen!! On the microphone front - been through the 1st phase (nasty, tinny sound at 'normal' levels) and the 2nd phase (prolonged, self-generated noise not unlike the landing beach scenes in Saving Private Ryan) and now in the 3rd phase (strangely quiet again and back to the original tinny sound)!! I'm letting it have its head for the moment - it's going to be a bit of a challenge and if anybody was considering going the same route, I would say keep your hand in your pocket, atm!! Question - I have a mic amp here which I don't *think* supplies phantom power - what would happen if I try it and the mic gets phantom power it doesn't need/want? It looks like the mic has a transformer output, so it shouldn't matter whether there is phantom on the line or not. Best to turn it off, though. As for the strange sounds, it may be that the mic has picked up some condensation in transit - or was it sealed with some silica gel? d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
Stonker or stinker?
"Keith G" "Phil Allison" ** The Chinese do - wherever a via is really needed 12 year olds with bare feet, standing on a dirt floor in a big galvanised iron shed with a diesel gene droning on outside copying sample PCBs. True enough - I suspect the 12 year olds are the ones approaching retirement age, though. I haven't been to China and I haven't seen for myself, but I suspect/hope the views expressed above are not true or, if they are, I'm pretty certain they won't last for long. ** He says - arguing foolishly from a position of self admitted ignorance. Wise up and ask someone who has really been there and seen the conditions first hand - as I did. Performing light assembly by hand in dirt floor sheds is nice work under nice conditions, for rural China. For the opposite - check out the Chinese factories making tubes for compact fluorescent lamps, the ones we are now told are so efficient & planet friendly we HAVE to use them, like it or not. There is liquid mercury and its toxic compounds lying all over the floors. 17th century hat makers had it good. ....... Phil |
Stonker or stinker?
On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:07:34 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote: On the microphone front - been through the 1st phase (nasty, tinny sound at 'normal' levels) and the 2nd phase (prolonged, self-generated noise not unlike the landing beach scenes in Saving Private Ryan) and now in the 3rd phase (strangely quiet again and back to the original tinny sound)!! I'm letting it have its head for the moment - it's going to be a bit of a challenge and if anybody was considering going the same route, I would say keep your hand in your pocket, atm!! What are you running it into? |
Stonker or stinker?
In article ,
Keith G wrote: Question - I have a mic amp here which I don't *think* supplies phantom power - what would happen if I try it and the mic gets phantom power it doesn't need/want? The whole principle of phantom is that it doesn't effect non phantom mics on the circuit. There is no potential difference between the A&B legs - just between them and ground. -- *If only you'd use your powers for good instead of evil. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Stonker or stinker?
"Don Pearce" wrote My thoughts on child labour tend towards the pragmatic. If they aren't building mics, the alternative is usually prostitution. Or having body parts removed for chump change.... Doing nothing when your family is starving is not an option. Quite.... It looks like the mic has a transformer output, so it shouldn't matter whether there is phantom on the line or not. Best to turn it off, though. As for the strange sounds, it may be that the mic has picked up some condensation in transit - or was it sealed with some silica gel? I have sent you some links direct to see if you can tell if the SS mic amp I have been given supplies Phantom Power or not - I don't want to risk frying anything!! The valve mic seems to be settling down (been on for a while now) - here's a little movie of the preamp's meter a while back: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/SelfNoise.wmv Busy, eh? :-) |
Stonker or stinker?
"Phil Allison" wrote in message ... "Keith G" "Phil Allison" ** The Chinese do - wherever a via is really needed 12 year olds with bare feet, standing on a dirt floor in a big galvanised iron shed with a diesel gene droning on outside copying sample PCBs. True enough - I suspect the 12 year olds are the ones approaching retirement age, though. I haven't been to China and I haven't seen for myself, but I suspect/hope the views expressed above are not true or, if they are, I'm pretty certain they won't last for long. ** He says - arguing foolishly from a position of self admitted ignorance. It's foolish to admit ignorance? How else is anyone ever gonna find anything out? Wise up and ask someone who has really been there and seen the conditions first hand - as I did. Performing light assembly by hand in dirt floor sheds is nice work under nice conditions, for rural China. See my mention of the movie 'Not One Less' - if it bears any resemblance whatsover to reality (and I believe it does - none of the characters are played by professional actors for a start), it kinda implies that in rural China dirt floors are not uncommon. I think you are making the mistake that *less Western* nations (who don't have Chav fake wood panel flooring) automatically have no life? For the opposite - check out the Chinese factories making tubes for compact fluorescent lamps, the ones we are now told are so efficient & planet friendly we HAVE to use them, like it or not. There is liquid mercury and its toxic compounds lying all over the floors. Don't make the mistake of thinking that sort of thing is exclusive to China - parts of East Anglia glow green at night from the queer **** that's being dumped there, I'm led to believe!! |
Stonker or stinker?
"Laurence Payne" NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com wrote in message ... On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:07:34 +0100, "Keith G" wrote: On the microphone front - been through the 1st phase (nasty, tinny sound at 'normal' levels) and the 2nd phase (prolonged, self-generated noise not unlike the landing beach scenes in Saving Private Ryan) and now in the 3rd phase (strangely quiet again and back to the original tinny sound)!! I'm letting it have its head for the moment - it's going to be a bit of a challenge and if anybody was considering going the same route, I would say keep your hand in your pocket, atm!! What are you running it into? Atm, a little valve mic pramp, as in this movie: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/SelfNoise.wmv But I have another SS mic amplifier which hopefully doesn't supply Phantom Power which I would try/use (if it works - I have been given it and never powered it up yet) to cut down the 'valve on valve' in the chain... http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/MicAmp01.JPG http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/MicAmp02.JPG http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/MicAmp03.JPG http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/MicAmp04.JPG http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/MicAmp05.JPG I have emailed these links to Don, but I'll take a show of hands if anyone can clearly see from the pix! (I've no bloody idea!! :-) |
Stonker or stinker?
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G wrote: Question - I have a mic amp here which I don't *think* supplies phantom power - what would happen if I try it and the mic gets phantom power it doesn't need/want? The whole principle of phantom is that it doesn't effect non phantom mics on the circuit. There is no potential difference between the A&B legs - just between them and ground. OK, that's interesting but one of the auctions I was looking at for valve mics made a fairly strong point about *not* letting the mic see Phantom power...??? |
Stonker or stinker?
But I have another SS mic amplifier which hopefully doesn't supply Phantom Power which I would try/use (if it works - I have been given it and never powered it up yet) to cut down the 'valve on valve' in the chain... http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/MicAmp01.JPG http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/MicAmp02.JPG http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/MicAmp03.JPG http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/MicAmp04.JPG http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/MicAmp05.JPG I have emailed these links to Don, but I'll take a show of hands if anyone can clearly see from the pix! (I've no bloody idea!! :-) What a big box for so little content :-) |
Stonker or stinker?
On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:34:55 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote: "Don Pearce" wrote My thoughts on child labour tend towards the pragmatic. If they aren't building mics, the alternative is usually prostitution. Or having body parts removed for chump change.... Doing nothing when your family is starving is not an option. Quite.... It looks like the mic has a transformer output, so it shouldn't matter whether there is phantom on the line or not. Best to turn it off, though. As for the strange sounds, it may be that the mic has picked up some condensation in transit - or was it sealed with some silica gel? I have sent you some links direct to see if you can tell if the SS mic amp I have been given supplies Phantom Power or not - I don't want to risk frying anything!! The valve mic seems to be settling down (been on for a while now) - here's a little movie of the preamp's meter a while back: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/SelfNoise.wmv Busy, eh? :-) First up, that out-of-phase thing is going on again. The two channels are upside down from each other. And first impression is that this mic is unbelievably much brighter than the ribbon. In fact it really sounds far too bright. Perhaps that is something that is settling out of the initial problems. As for that preamp, it looks like the phantom power may be on. Does that plastic blob on the back pull out and go in the other hole? d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
Stonker or stinker?
On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:52:28 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G wrote: Question - I have a mic amp here which I don't *think* supplies phantom power - what would happen if I try it and the mic gets phantom power it doesn't need/want? The whole principle of phantom is that it doesn't effect non phantom mics on the circuit. There is no potential difference between the A&B legs - just between them and ground. OK, that's interesting but one of the auctions I was looking at for valve mics made a fairly strong point about *not* letting the mic see Phantom power...??? It can be important when there is a wiring fault in the mic, particularly with a ribbon mic, where it is possible to put phantom across the ribbon and blast it out of the gap. If everything is OK, though, there is never a problem putting phantom on a mic that doesn't need it. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
Stonker or stinker?
On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:52:28 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote: OK, that's interesting but one of the auctions I was looking at for valve mics made a fairly strong point about *not* letting the mic see Phantom power...??? Point us at it? |
Stonker or stinker?
"Don Pearce" wrote First up, that out-of-phase thing is going on again. Yep, but I'm not too troubled about that - both/either of those mics would only be used for mono recordings. (Not to say there won't be 'absolute phase' questions in the future though!) The two channels are upside down from each other. And first impression is that this mic is unbelievably much brighter than the ribbon. Yes. In fact it really sounds far too bright. Yes. Perhaps that is something that is settling out of the initial problems. I'm watching it. If it was always too bright it would then be a question of tweaking/fettling it. I have a feeling the bloody valve is soldered in - otherwise, a swap for a nice Mullard or summat would be first port of call! Another option of course is to return it for a refund, but I feel I'm already a bit reluctant to do that - the challenge to make it summat a bit nicer would be an interesting one.... As for that preamp, it looks like the phantom power may be on. Does that plastic blob on the back pull out and go in the other hole? :-) I don't think so, but there's absolutely nothing goes anywhere near there - see in the bottom of this pic, about midway on the back of the case and to the right of the gain adjustment: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/MicAmp03.JPG |
Stonker or stinker?
|
Stonker or stinker?
"Laurence Payne" NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com wrote in message ... On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:52:28 +0100, "Keith G" wrote: OK, that's interesting but one of the auctions I was looking at for valve mics made a fairly strong point about *not* letting the mic see Phantom power...??? Point us at it? Can't - I had a number of them in My eBay before I made a choice but I've since had a clearout and seem to have deleted them. I clearly remember the *do not* bit, but I've no idea now what it was - one of then was a strange 'solid state valve' affair and I can't find that even in completed listings. There's always the chance it was on a website that was linked from an eBay auction, anyway.... |
Stonker or stinker?
"Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:52:28 +0100, "Keith G" wrote: OK, that's interesting but one of the auctions I was looking at for valve mics made a fairly strong point about *not* letting the mic see Phantom power...??? It can be important when there is a wiring fault in the mic, particularly with a ribbon mic, where it is possible to put phantom across the ribbon and blast it out of the gap. If everything is OK, though, there is never a problem putting phantom on a mic that doesn't need it. OK, from what you and Plowie have said, I'm quite comfortable with that now! |
Stonker or stinker?
"Keith G" wrote in message
... "Phil Allison" wrote in message ... "Keith G" "Phil Allison" ** The Chinese do - wherever a via is really needed 12 year olds with bare feet, standing on a dirt floor in a big galvanised iron shed with a diesel gene droning on outside copying sample PCBs. True enough - I suspect the 12 year olds are the ones approaching retirement age, though. I haven't been to China and I haven't seen for myself, but I suspect/hope the views expressed above are not true or, if they are, I'm pretty certain they won't last for long. ** He says - arguing foolishly from a position of self admitted ignorance. It's foolish to admit ignorance? How else is anyone ever gonna find anything out? Wise up and ask someone who has really been there and seen the conditions first hand - as I did. Performing light assembly by hand in dirt floor sheds is nice work under nice conditions, for rural China. See my mention of the movie 'Not One Less' - if it bears any resemblance whatsover to reality (and I believe it does - none of the characters are played by professional actors for a start), it kinda implies that in rural China dirt floors are not uncommon. I think you are making the mistake that *less Western* nations (who don't have Chav fake wood panel flooring) automatically have no life? For the opposite - check out the Chinese factories making tubes for compact fluorescent lamps, the ones we are now told are so efficient & planet friendly we HAVE to use them, like it or not. There is liquid mercury and its toxic compounds lying all over the floors. Don't make the mistake of thinking that sort of thing is exclusive to China - parts of East Anglia glow green at night from the queer **** that's being dumped there, I'm led to believe!! In the late '80s, I worked for Marconi, and spent a fair bit of time in China as we were thinking about forming a joint-venture with a Chinese radio Transmitter factory. They wanted access to modern designs, and we wanted access to cheap manufacturing facilities, as FM was being expanded rapidly in China at the time. I visited one particular factory which made FM transmitters, 1-10kW tetrode designs, whereas European transmitters of the era and of that power were solid-state. I was particularly interested in Quality Control, as I couldn't see any! I was told that staff "self-criticise" and so an inspector isn't needed, nor would it be culturally acceptable as any criticism of a worker's output would mean them losing face. This would be fine, if I didn't see several assembly workers taking their soldering irons to the solder, melting a blob onto the end of the iron, then balancing the molten blob and dropping it onto the PC board pad. I was told they all did it that way...... When I was later asking them about what failure mechanisms they had found were particularly common, they said they had problems with dry joints....... Needless to say, we didn't form a joint venture with that particular company, nor any other at the time. It's now twenty years that I haven't been to China, so I don't know if the culture against seperate inspection is still a factor, but since then I've been sceptical of Chinese Quality Control ever since. There was a programme on TV some weeks ago about a UK manufacturers that have factories in China, and maintaining Quality seemed to recur as a problem. With modern automatic pick&place machines and SMT, there is less scope for quality issues than with hand soldered electronics, but nevertheless, if the culture doesn't accept outside criticism, it doesn't bode well for quality. S. -- http://audiopages.googlepages.com |
Stonker or stinker?
"Laurence Payne" NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com wrote in message ... On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:07:32 GMT, (Don Pearce) wrote: First up, that out-of-phase thing is going on again. The two channels are upside down from each other. And first impression is that this mic is unbelievably much brighter than the ribbon. In fact it really sounds far too bright. Perhaps that is something that is settling out of the initial problems. As for that preamp, it looks like the phantom power may be on. Does that plastic blob on the back pull out and go in the other hole? Is there a test recording somewhere that you two are keeping to yourselves? Nothing worth going *public* with!! ;-) I'll post some music comparisons when I get it a bit better sorted... |
Stonker or stinker?
In article ,
Keith G wrote: OK, that's interesting but one of the auctions I was looking at for valve mics made a fairly strong point about *not* letting the mic see Phantom power...??? Then it's badly designed in some way. Most studios have permanent phantom power on all mic inputs - and valve mics are still in use in some. My AKG C28 is fine with phantom power - and it was designed before such a thing existed. (IIRC) -- *Middle age is when it takes longer to rest than to get tired. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Stonker or stinker?
In article ,
Don Pearce wrote: OK, that's interesting but one of the auctions I was looking at for valve mics made a fairly strong point about *not* letting the mic see Phantom power...??? It can be important when there is a wiring fault in the mic, particularly with a ribbon mic, where it is possible to put phantom across the ribbon and blast it out of the gap. If everything is OK, though, there is never a problem putting phantom on a mic that doesn't need it. How do you get DC past its transformer? -- *It doesn't take a genius to spot a goat in a flock of sheep * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Stonker or stinker?
On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:09:19 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote: In article , Don Pearce wrote: OK, that's interesting but one of the auctions I was looking at for valve mics made a fairly strong point about *not* letting the mic see Phantom power...??? It can be important when there is a wiring fault in the mic, particularly with a ribbon mic, where it is possible to put phantom across the ribbon and blast it out of the gap. If everything is OK, though, there is never a problem putting phantom on a mic that doesn't need it. How do you get DC past its transformer? With a ribbon the inrush current in the transformer is enough to do the job. I've heard of permanently bent ribbons that way, although I haven't seen it for myself. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
Stonker or stinker?
"Keith G" wrote in message ... "Laurence Payne" NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com wrote Is there a test recording somewhere that you two are keeping to yourselves? Nothing worth going *public* with!! ;-) I'll post some music comparisons when I get it a bit better sorted... Here's a couple of quick snatches which Swim *volunteered* while I had the mics set up as per: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Two%20Mics.JPG - *not*, I hasten to add, anything like a proper setup for recording! http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...0&%20Valve.mp3 http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...0&%20Valve.mp3 The left channel is the ribbon, the right channel is the valve mic - each one conspires to make the other sound ****e...!! :-) |
Stonker or stinker?
On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:38:08 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote: "Keith G" wrote in message .. . "Laurence Payne" NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com wrote Is there a test recording somewhere that you two are keeping to yourselves? Nothing worth going *public* with!! ;-) I'll post some music comparisons when I get it a bit better sorted... Here's a couple of quick snatches which Swim *volunteered* while I had the mics set up as per: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Two%20Mics.JPG - *not*, I hasten to add, anything like a proper setup for recording! http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...0&%20Valve.mp3 http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...0&%20Valve.mp3 The left channel is the ribbon, the right channel is the valve mic - each one conspires to make the other sound ****e...!! :-) Even on the clarinet they are chalk and cheese. I have to say the ribbon wins it by a mile, though. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
Stonker or stinker?
"Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:38:08 +0100, "Keith G" wrote: The left channel is the ribbon, the right channel is the valve mic - each one conspires to make the other sound ****e...!! :-) Even on the clarinet they are chalk and cheese. I have to say the ribbon wins it by a mile, though. They certainly seem to be opposite extremes! My feeling is that, at the price, the valve mic is a worthwhile 'project' if not a truly satisfactory 'finished item' - especially with all the accessories, cables, flight case, shockmount, PS &c. It will be an interesting challenge to see if it can be tidied up nicely.... |
Stonker or stinker?
On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:07:18 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote: "Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:38:08 +0100, "Keith G" wrote: The left channel is the ribbon, the right channel is the valve mic - each one conspires to make the other sound ****e...!! :-) Even on the clarinet they are chalk and cheese. I have to say the ribbon wins it by a mile, though. They certainly seem to be opposite extremes! My feeling is that, at the price, the valve mic is a worthwhile 'project' if not a truly satisfactory 'finished item' - especially with all the accessories, cables, flight case, shockmount, PS &c. It will be an interesting challenge to see if it can be tidied up nicely.... Try this http://81.174.169.10/odds/rib_valve_corr.mp3 Just a quick eq - pretty extreme, mind d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
Stonker or stinker?
It's now twenty years that I haven't been to China, so I don't know if the
culture against seperate inspection is still a factor, but since then I've been sceptical of Chinese Quality Control ever since. There was a programme on TV some weeks ago about a UK manufacturers that have factories in China, and maintaining Quality seemed to recur as a problem. With modern automatic pick&place machines and SMT, there is less scope for quality issues than with hand soldered electronics, but nevertheless, if the culture doesn't accept outside criticism, it doesn't bode well for quality. S. That "loss of face" issue is what caused a Korean airliner to be shot down by the Russians some years ago;!... -- Tony Sayer |
Stonker or stinker?
In article ,
Don Pearce wrote: It can be important when there is a wiring fault in the mic, particularly with a ribbon mic, where it is possible to put phantom across the ribbon and blast it out of the gap. If everything is OK, though, there is never a problem putting phantom on a mic that doesn't need it. How do you get DC past its transformer? With a ribbon the inrush current in the transformer is enough to do the job. I've heard of permanently bent ribbons that way, although I haven't seen it for myself. The inrush current will surely be tiny given the correct standoff resistors for phantom and the resistance of the primary winding? And the ratio of the transformer would reduce it even more? But maybe on shaky ground - if the transformer is balanced to ground surely any inrush current would cancel anyway? BBC TV used 4038s for audience reaction mics on permanently powered mic inputs. For many a year. They may still do. -- *I get enough exercise just pushing my luck. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Stonker or stinker?
"Don Pearce" wrote Try this http://81.174.169.10/odds/rib_valve_corr.mp3 Just a quick eq - pretty extreme, mind Much nicer! :-) |
Stonker or stinker?
"Serge Auckland" wrote It's now twenty years that I haven't been to China, so I don't know if the culture against seperate inspection is still a factor, but since then I've been sceptical of Chinese Quality Control ever since. There was a programme on TV some weeks ago about a UK manufacturers that have factories in China, and maintaining Quality seemed to recur as a problem. With modern automatic pick&place machines and SMT, there is less scope for quality issues than with hand soldered electronics, but nevertheless, if the culture doesn't accept outside criticism, it doesn't bode well for quality. Serge, if we ignore 'audio' for a moment and think *computer*, I'd say the Chinese were capable of some pretty fine PCB work. I remember studying a network adaptor card (I think it was) a while back and being blown away at the amount of tiny-sized components on it - and all for about 7 quid! Whatever it was, it had a sticker on it: 'Designed in the US, assembled in China' or summat very like it! |
Stonker or stinker?
"Keith the Gormless Git " ** The Chinese do - wherever a via is really needed 12 year olds with bare feet, standing on a dirt floor in a big galvanised iron shed with a diesel gene droning on outside copying sample PCBs. True enough - I suspect the 12 year olds are the ones approaching retirement age, though. I haven't been to China and I haven't seen for myself, but I suspect/hope the views expressed above are not true or, if they are, I'm pretty certain they won't last for long. ** He says - arguing foolishly from a position of self admitted ignorance. It's foolish to admit ignorance? ** Only utter fools ARGUE from a position of ignorance - their lack of knowlege allowing them to hold any convenient opinion. Wise up and ask someone who has really been there and seen the conditions first hand - as I did. Performing light assembly by hand in dirt floor sheds is nice work under nice conditions, for rural China. ( snip drivel that backs ME up ) For the opposite - check out the Chinese factories making tubes for compact fluorescent lamps, the ones we are now told are so efficient & planet friendly we HAVE to use them, like it or not. There is liquid mercury and its toxic compounds lying all over the floors. Don't make the mistake of thinking that sort of thing is exclusive to China .. ** Don't make the mistake of thinking YOU are other that a total F U C K W I T !! ....... Phil |
Stonker or stinker?
"Phil Allison" Wise up and ask someone who has really been there and seen the conditions first hand - as I did. ** Before anyone asks me about my trip to China - the above should be read as me speaking with someone who had done several " troubleshooting " trips to rural ( galvanised shed ) factories. ...... Phil |
Stonker or stinker?
On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 23:07:52 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote: In article , Don Pearce wrote: It can be important when there is a wiring fault in the mic, particularly with a ribbon mic, where it is possible to put phantom across the ribbon and blast it out of the gap. If everything is OK, though, there is never a problem putting phantom on a mic that doesn't need it. How do you get DC past its transformer? With a ribbon the inrush current in the transformer is enough to do the job. I've heard of permanently bent ribbons that way, although I haven't seen it for myself. The inrush current will surely be tiny given the correct standoff resistors for phantom and the resistance of the primary winding? And the ratio of the transformer would reduce it even more? The turns ratio of the transformer in a ribbon mic is extreme. Apparently you can get enough current out to do the job. The transformer increases the current (and reduces the voltage) towards the ribbon. But maybe on shaky ground - if the transformer is balanced to ground surely any inrush current would cancel anyway? Remember it is only when you have a wiring fault that this can happen. That would be one side shorted to ground. BBC TV used 4038s for audience reaction mics on permanently powered mic inputs. For many a year. They may still do. Very probably. The convenience would far outweigh the very slight risk. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
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