Williamson by QUAD?
 

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:53:17 -0700, Andre Jute
wrote:


V-8/60. It replaced the A/B Ford flathead 4 (unfortunately)

The 60 can't stand for cubic inches; that's only one litre. So what
does it stand for?

Probably a 60-degree V.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Williamson by QUAD?
 

"RapidRonnie" wrote in message
ps.com...

V-8/60. It replaced the A/B Ford flathead 4 (unfortunately) and was
later made by Simca: they were sold stateside by Chrysler dealers.
Midget racers occasionally would buy the cars new to pull the engines
out and leave the dealer with the rest of the car.

http://www.35pickup.com/mulligan/fhtime.htm

Always a 90 degree V8

Williamson by QUAD?
 

On Sep 11, 12:48 pm, (Don Pearce) wrote:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:53:17 -0700, Andre Jute
wrote:



V-8/60. It replaced the A/B Ford flathead 4 (unfortunately)

The 60 can't stand for cubic inches; that's only one litre. So what
does it stand for?

Probably a 60-degree V.

d

--
Pearce Consultinghttp://www.pearce.uk.com

Rated at a nominal 60hp in the first year of production.

CID Bore " Stroke " Comp. HP@RPM
136 2.60 3.20 7.5:1 60@3800

in 1937.

As to Ms. Piaf:

Trust Mr. Jute to embelish interesting enough facts with enough legend
and falsehood to choke even 60 horses:
__________________________________________________ ___

In 1958 she was in a serious car accident and took morphine for pain
and relapsed into drug and alcohol abuse. In 1959, Édith broke down
during a performance in New York and thereafter survived a number of
operations. She returned to Paris in poor health. Édith met her second
husband, Théo Sarapo, in the winter of 1961. Théo was a twenty-six-
year-old hairdresser-turned-singer and actor, and was twenty years
younger than Piaf. They married in 1962. He rejuvenated her enough to
make her last recordings and performances. Piaf went to a small town
(Cannes) in the South of France in early 1963 to recuperate but she
fell in and out of a coma beginning in April 1963. At the early age of
47 on October 10, 1963, Édith Piaf died of cancer. Her husband Théo
discretely drove her body back to Paris and announced her death on
October 11, 1963. Upon hearing of her death, Édith's long-time friend,
Jacques Cocteau suffered a cardiac arrest and died.
The Roman Catholic Church denied Édith Piaf a funeral mass because of
her lifestyle. Piaf was buried in cemetery Père Lachaise on October
14, 1963.
Théo Sarapo, Édith's husband died in an automobile accident in 1970
and is buried beside Piaf in Père Lachaise.
__________________________________________________ ______

The saddest part is that the bare facts are interesting enough to
stand on their own without additional tripe and twaddle afterwards.
And all that we learn from Mr. Jute is that he cannot tell a story
straight. Kinda puts the whole Simca statement in question.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA
Kutztown Space 338

Williamson by QUAD?
 

On Sep 11, 12:48 pm, (Don Pearce) wrote:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:53:17 -0700, Andre Jute
wrote:



V-8/60. It replaced the A/B Ford flathead 4 (unfortunately)

The 60 can't stand for cubic inches; that's only one litre. So what
does it stand for?

Probably a 60-degree V.

d

--
Pearce Consultinghttp://www.pearce.uk.com

Oh, 90-degree V, sorry.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA
Kutztown Space 338

Williamson by QUAD?
 

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 10:20:26 -0700, Peter Wieck wrote:

On Sep 11, 12:48 pm, (Don Pearce) wrote:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:53:17 -0700, Andre Jute
wrote:



V-8/60. It replaced the A/B Ford flathead 4 (unfortunately)

The 60 can't stand for cubic inches; that's only one litre. So what
does it stand for?

Probably a 60-degree V.

d

--
Pearce Consultinghttp://www.pearce.uk.com

Oh, 90-degree V, sorry.

OK. Just a guess.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Williamson by QUAD?
 

In article .com,
Andre Jute wrote:
The 60 can't stand for cubic inches; that's only one litre. So what
does it stand for? Horsepower. Actually, before the war 60 real horses
pretty the sturdiest of the British engines, the 3 litre Austin
Princess engine as fitted to Austin Healeys, didn't cross the 100bhp
barrier (except advertising puffery) until you breathed on it.

The Healey 100/4 used basically a pre-war Austin engine which struggled
to make 100 bhp, but 6 cylinder models had post war C Series units all of
which were good for over 100 bhp. Although not by much in standard trim.
The last version with the Weslake head and separate ports *could* be made
to produce a fair amount. But was a desperately heavy lump.

--
*Why isn't 11 pronounced onety one? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Williamson by QUAD?
 

In article om,
Andre Jute wrote:
I suppose there's not really that many different designs for pushrod
V-8s, but it was never mentioned at the time that the Rolls engine was
based on any other - nor did they, as far as I know, pay any royalties
etc unlike Rover who bought their design outright from GM. And of
course the Rolls engine was several years earlier - IIRC 1959 being
the first year of production. And still going...

Quite a bit of this is insidiously erroneous.

Which bits?

I spoke to the
distinguished motoring journalist Edward Eves about 25 years ago about
the origins of the Rolls-Royce V8 engine. He had total access to the
RR archives for a book he was writing. He said that the story that RR
copied a Chrysler engine was quite untrue (as for lesser breeds of
engines, gee...). Nor is Dave quite right in saying RR paid no
royalties. They did pay Chrysler a royalty for the tappets in the RR
V8which were manufactured under license from the American company,
which is perhaps where the "copy of a Chrysler engine" story arises.

Hydraulic tappets are invariably bought in. I dunno for sure but wouldn't
be surprised if Rolls did just this. They bought in lots of component
parts and complete assemblies.;

But in automobiles everyone pays everyone else royalties; Rolls-Royce
even in the time of Sir Henry, who prided himself on making everything
himself if he could make it better, licensed their brake assistance
from Hispano-Suiza,

Yup - a mechanical servo system. Notable for the brakes only working with
power assistance when the car was moving. So you couldn't test the front
ones on a rolling road tester.

more recenlty self-levelling suspension technology
was licensed from Citroen, and so on,

Disc brakes power assistance too.

so that the tappets licensed
from Chrysler fits neatly into the pattern. After all, no one will
claim just because RR licensed Citroen technology that they build a
copy of the 1956 Goddess!

Indeed. However plenty I think confuse the Rolls V-8 with the Rover one as
far as origin stories are concerned.

--
*Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Williamson by QUAD?
 

In article om,
Andre Jute wrote:
The first Rover V-8 was quoted at 160 bhp - but I dunno about export
versions with lower compression ratios, etc.

I've heard about 160bph being claimed. I just never saw it on a dyno
under my control.

The first UK engines had a 10.5 :1 compression ratio and needed 100 octane
fuel. Round about '72 this was dropped to IIRC just under 9:1 to use 97
octane with a large drop in power output. I had both versions in P6 Rovers
and there was a very noticeable difference in performance. Rover claimed
it was minimal - but this just wasn't so.

(I seem to remember people often spoke of 135 horses for that engine
in the Mk Vi.) We were looking at the Rover V8 because back then it
was the only engine we knew with any power that two guys could pick
up between them, a wonderful thing. It wasn't much chop though; a
very unreliable engine if you breathed on it even lightly.

Hmm. Just what broke?

Usual British crap production. The heads wouldn't seal properly
without double-O-ringing, threads stripping, conrods coming through
the side of the engine before we even exceeded the rev limit.

Simply not my experience with any of these engines if kept in tune and the
cooling system kept in good condition. The first failure point with high
sustained revs was the distributor/oil pump drive. But not with standard
rev limits set by the tappets pumping up. Stripped threads were down to
poor practice - not using the correct sealer between bolts and block which
led to incorrect torque settings. Documented in the factory workshop
manual. And unless you had the correct setting the steel head gaskets gave
problems. As they would with any overheating - one of the reasons GM gave
up on the engine and went back to cast iron.

My
mechanics were student engineers, supervised by couple of real racing
mechanics with a lot of experience. The engineers were fascinated by
this lightweight engine, the real mechanics advised me (or rather my
girlfriend's father who was paying for all this) to waste no more time
and money on the Rover engine, to continue with our very successful
development programme of the unbreakable Chrysler hemiheads which had
served me well until we went off on the lightweight wild goose chase.

Have you read Hardcastle's 'The Rover V-8 Engine'? Gives chapter and verse
on its racing history both as the basis for the Repco units as well as
later ones based on the Rover unit.

Still, a decade later it made the SD1 into one of the greatest cars
BL ever built;

I've got one. ;-)

Must take some TLC to keep it on the road.

Some - it's still on its original engine. Only replacement to that has
been the camshaft and tappets at around 130,000 miles. It still doesn't
need the oil topped up between 6000 mile changes.

such a pit
they didn't see fit to carry forward the second-best thing about the
P8, the De Dion rear axle, a beautiful thing of 300B-like purely
linear motion..

Snag is the space such a design takes up - you wouldn't have had the
same flexibility of the hatchback design with vast load area which is
originally why I kept mine.

All my mates who previously drove 3.5 V8s, the 2000 shape, as company
cars. decided that without the De Dion rear they would switch to Jags.
They weren't family men, or at least not one-car family men, so they
didn't care for the space. Rover lost a lot of prestige those years,
and partly because of decisions like that one.

Heh heh. But the SD1 handles far better than any P6. If only they'd
carried over the P6 brakes.

We should take time out here for a moment of silence for the lost
opportunity of what the Rover SD1, born to greatness, could have
become with proper development in a company with proper management
rather the British Motors Leyland rolling fiasco. (Not that I can
think of one: all the British motor companies were up to **** those
years, so pick a German car company, say VAG.)

Indeed. I went to BMW after the SD1 ceased to be my main car. But it's
still great fun to drive. And look at.

--
*If you remember the '60s, you weren't really there

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

More from the Don Pearce School of Miscalculation, was Williamson by QUAD?
 

On Sep 11, 9:48 am, (Don Pearce) wrote:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:53:17 -0700, Andre Jute
wrote:



[Ford] V-8/60. It replaced the A/B Ford flathead 4 (unfortunately)

The 60 can't stand for cubic inches; that's only one litre. So what
does it stand for?

Probably a 60-degree V.

d

--
Pearce Consultinghttp://www.pearce.uk.com

Don't guess, Don. It only gives away your ignorance. Everyone else in
this conversation except you and Worthless Wiecky, who's sure to be in
it, can offhand name all or at least the most important reasons why a
V8 engine should be made with an included angle of 90 degrees. No one
knowledgeable even considered the possibility that I should be talking
about how that particular engine was bent; everyone just assumed 90
degrees.

For your information: all American V8 engines are 90 degree engines.

Andre Jute
The trouble with most people is not what they don't know, but what
they know for certain that isn't true. ---Mark Twain

More from the Don Pearce School of Miscalculation, was Williamson by QUAD?
 

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:24:25 -0700, Andre Jute
wrote:

On Sep 11, 9:48 am, (Don Pearce) wrote:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:53:17 -0700, Andre Jute
wrote:



[Ford] V-8/60. It replaced the A/B Ford flathead 4 (unfortunately)

The 60 can't stand for cubic inches; that's only one litre. So what
does it stand for?

Probably a 60-degree V.

d

--
Pearce Consultinghttp://www.pearce.uk.com

Don't guess, Don. It only gives away your ignorance. Everyone else in
this conversation except you and Worthless Wiecky, who's sure to be in
it, can offhand name all or at least the most important reasons why a
V8 engine should be made with an included angle of 90 degrees. No one
knowledgeable even considered the possibility that I should be talking
about how that particular engine was bent; everyone just assumed 90
degrees.

For your information: all American V8 engines are 90 degree engines.

Andre Jute
The trouble with most people is not what they don't know, but what
they know for certain that isn't true. ---Mark Twain


so what?