Andy Evans wrote:
We had an amp shootout in the London Audiocircle tonight and had a
chance to hear 5 chinese amps.

A pair of Bez T3B 300b SETs sounded the best of the lot, and by some
margin.

Two 845 amps were admired for their top to bottom "authority". I
thought they were a bit bland compared to the life in the 300b amp.

A Push Pull EL34 amp with feedback was very forgettable. On the other
hand a KT88 amp with feedback switched off was not bad at all, though
inferior to the 845s and of course the 300b.

The Bez amps did have some good 300bs fitted, plus some nice 6J5gt
variants (including the 2C22).

This all made me very curious about what others have found in Chinese
amp shootouts. Keith, for example, must have a rank order of the best
by now!!

So - what's your experience of Chinese valve amps? Andy


Er, not much, except for Keith's installations, which always sounded
great to me. I am put off by the fettle factor though.

A guy has just been round to pick up some ebay winnings, and rates:

http://www.ys-audio.com/ys-audio_eng.htm

Another Chinese audio web site that seems to be hosted via a dial-up
connection.

Rob

"Rob" wrote in message
...
Andy Evans wrote:
We had an amp shootout in the London Audiocircle tonight and had a
chance to hear 5 chinese amps.

A pair of Bez T3B 300b SETs sounded the best of the lot, and by some
margin.

Two 845 amps were admired for their top to bottom "authority". I
thought they were a bit bland compared to the life in the 300b amp.

A Push Pull EL34 amp with feedback was very forgettable. On the other
hand a KT88 amp with feedback switched off was not bad at all, though
inferior to the 845s and of course the 300b.

The Bez amps did have some good 300bs fitted, plus some nice 6J5gt
variants (including the 2C22).

This all made me very curious about what others have found in Chinese
amp shootouts. Keith, for example, must have a rank order of the best
by now!!

So - what's your experience of Chinese valve amps? Andy


Er, not much, except for Keith's installations, which always sounded
great to me. I am put off by the fettle factor though.

A guy has just been round to pick up some ebay winnings, and rates:

http://www.ys-audio.com/ys-audio_eng.htm

Another Chinese audio web site that seems to be hosted via a dial-up
connection.


Mebbe I'm easily impressed but some of that stuff looks very good to
me...???

Whatever - no one can deny the Chinese haven't brought *choice* to the
table....

Keith G wrote:
"Rob" wrote in message
...
Andy Evans wrote:
We had an amp shootout in the London Audiocircle tonight and had a
chance to hear 5 chinese amps.

A pair of Bez T3B 300b SETs sounded the best of the lot, and by some
margin.

Two 845 amps were admired for their top to bottom "authority". I
thought they were a bit bland compared to the life in the 300b amp.

A Push Pull EL34 amp with feedback was very forgettable. On the other
hand a KT88 amp with feedback switched off was not bad at all, though
inferior to the 845s and of course the 300b.

The Bez amps did have some good 300bs fitted, plus some nice 6J5gt
variants (including the 2C22).

This all made me very curious about what others have found in Chinese
amp shootouts. Keith, for example, must have a rank order of the best
by now!!

So - what's your experience of Chinese valve amps? Andy

Er, not much, except for Keith's installations, which always sounded
great to me. I am put off by the fettle factor though.

A guy has just been round to pick up some ebay winnings, and rates:

http://www.ys-audio.com/ys-audio_eng.htm

Another Chinese audio web site that seems to be hosted via a dial-up
connection.


Mebbe I'm easily impressed but some of that stuff looks very good to
me...???

Whatever - no one can deny the Chinese haven't brought *choice* to the
table....


All looks very fair and tidy to me, and he seems to take the transformer
issue seriously. I don't know how to assess these things at a distance
though, except by weight (and that's no way etc), look and the 'main'
valves. My valve of choice thus far is the KT88, but I'm itching to try
a 300B SET, with all the speaker upheaval that's likely to create.

Like your new bike BTW - looks the part, just keep it and you upright :-)

I came back from my hols (bus/tent round Greece) wanting a Transalp

http://www.reelclassics.com/Audio_Vi...sibledream.mp3

:-)

Rob

"Rob" wrote


All looks very fair and tidy to me, and he seems to take the
transformer issue seriously. I don't know how to assess these things
at a distance though, except by weight (and that's no way etc), look
and the 'main' valves. My valve of choice thus far is the KT88, but
I'm itching to try a 300B SET, with all the speaker upheaval that's
likely to create.


Your Dynaudios might sound very nice on a 300B SET but I think it would
be a struggle to get any real *loudness* from such a set (oops) up! If
you do manage to swing by, we can damn soon set up some comparisons but,
fie were you, I'd cut to the chase and go straight to the 300B and make
it work!

Just my toupee....




Like your new bike BTW - looks the part, just keep it and you upright
:-)


Thank you - I'll do me best! ;-)


I came back from my hols (bus/tent round Greece) wanting a Transalp

http://www.reelclassics.com/Audio_Vi...sibledream.mp3

:-)


So get one - but not until you've had some training, passed your test
and got some serious practice in on a smaller bike like a Kawasaki ER-5
or similar. Falling off bikes (motor *and* pedal) comes with the
territory, but it doesn't have to be the end of the world* The right
clothing and 'armour' (if you want) goes a long way to minimise risk -
last weekend the son of the bike shop (a racer) came off a bike at 130
mph and totally shattered the bike (carbon wheels and all) without
sustaining a single scratch or batting an eyelid, apparently!!


*Hopefully....

So get one - but not until you've had some training, passed your test
and got some serious practice in on a smaller bike like a Kawasaki ER-5
or similar. Falling off bikes (motor *and* pedal) comes with the
territory, but it doesn't have to be the end of the world* The right
clothing and 'armour' (if you want) goes a long way to minimise risk -
last weekend the son of the bike shop (a racer) came off a bike at 130
mph and totally shattered the bike (carbon wheels and all) without
sustaining a single scratch or batting an eyelid, apparently!!

Err.. Wot about the colouring of his boxers;!....

--
Tony Sayer

Keith G wrote:
"Rob" wrote


All looks very fair and tidy to me, and he seems to take the
transformer issue seriously. I don't know how to assess these things
at a distance though, except by weight (and that's no way etc), look
and the 'main' valves. My valve of choice thus far is the KT88, but
I'm itching to try a 300B SET, with all the speaker upheaval that's
likely to create.


Your Dynaudios might sound very nice on a 300B SET but I think it would
be a struggle to get any real *loudness* from such a set (oops) up! If
you do manage to swing by, we can damn soon set up some comparisons but,
fie were you, I'd cut to the chase and go straight to the 300B and make
it work!

Just my toupee....


Cheers Keith - I'm sure it'll 'just work', and loudness is for the SS
amp. I take it the Bez is the SET of choice - I'll keep an eye out.



Like your new bike BTW - looks the part, just keep it and you upright
:-)


Thank you - I'll do me best! ;-)

I came back from my hols (bus/tent round Greece) wanting a Transalp

http://www.reelclassics.com/Audio_Vi...sibledream.mp3

:-)


So get one - but not until you've had some training, passed your test
and got some serious practice in on a smaller bike like a Kawasaki ER-5
or similar. Falling off bikes (motor *and* pedal) comes with the
territory, but it doesn't have to be the end of the world* The right
clothing and 'armour' (if you want) goes a long way to minimise risk -
last weekend the son of the bike shop (a racer) came off a bike at 130
mph and totally shattered the bike (carbon wheels and all) without
sustaining a single scratch or batting an eyelid, apparently!!


I gather the test gets more severe next year, so if I overcome my usual
inertia I'll look into it.


*Hopefully....


Indeed!

My valve of choice thus far is the KT88, but I'm itching to try
a 300B SET, with all the speaker upheaval that's likely to create.


The 300b (or the 2a3) is significantly more musical and subtle than
the KT88. There's always push-pull which should give you at least 20
watts (for 300b, 10 watts 2a3).

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
oups.com...
We had an amp shootout in the London Audiocircle tonight and had a
chance to hear 5 chinese amps.

A pair of Bez T3B 300b SETs sounded the best of the lot, and by some
margin.

Two 845 amps were admired for their top to bottom "authority". I
thought they were a bit bland compared to the life in the 300b amp.

A Push Pull EL34 amp with feedback was very forgettable. On the other
hand a KT88 amp with feedback switched off was not bad at all, though
inferior to the 845s and of course the 300b.

The Bez amps did have some good 300bs fitted, plus some nice 6J5gt
variants (including the 2C22).

This all made me very curious about what others have found in Chinese
amp shootouts. Keith, for example, must have a rank order of the best
by now!!

So - what's your experience of Chinese valve amps? Andy


Hi Andy. I have repaired a few (but not a Bez, which,
by all accounts is indeed one of the best)

It seems to me the Chinese alternative is a two-edged sword.
It gives people the chance to try a valve amp, without spending
a huge amount of money. But at the same time, reliability is nothing
like as good as it should be. This is reflected in very low second
hand value. People could get the idea that *all* valve amps are
unreliable.

Cosmetically they are quite good (you either like the Chinese "style"
or youi don't:-) You could not buy a stainless steel chassis here in
the EU for the price of a complete Chinese amplifier.

The ones I have worked on have simple faults, caused by poor quality
under-specified components - like skeleton pots for bias adjust etc.

Most have potted transformers. I suspect the transformers are quite
a lot smaller than the pots, because the bandwidth of these amps at
full power is pretty poor.

Under the deck, these amplifiers bear a remarkable similarity, as
if there is one generic board for many different versions. I have the
feeling that most of the brands come from the same factory.

I have seen one with a "Elps" (sic) input potentiometer.

Last winter I was in Viet Nam. I visited an audio wholesaler, who
offered me any ten Chinese amps in the warehouse for USD 1 000.

Most of them seem to be sold direct, not through a local dealer.
So, to whom to you turn when the amp fails?

Also, the ones I have seen carry no CE mark

Having said all that, as an entry level amp, they cannot be beaten,
as long as you don't expect something for nothing.

Cheers
Iain

"Iain Churches" wrote



Hi Andy. I have repaired a few (but not a Bez, which,
by all accounts is indeed one of the best)

It seems to me the Chinese alternative is a two-edged sword.
It gives people the chance to try a valve amp, without spending
a huge amount of money. But at the same time, reliability is nothing
like as good as it should be. This is reflected in very low second
hand value. People could get the idea that *all* valve amps are
unreliable.

Cosmetically they are quite good (you either like the Chinese "style"
or youi don't:-) You could not buy a stainless steel chassis here in
the EU for the price of a complete Chinese amplifier.

The ones I have worked on have simple faults, caused by poor quality
under-specified components - like skeleton pots for bias adjust etc.

Most have potted transformers. I suspect the transformers are quite
a lot smaller than the pots, because the bandwidth of these amps at
full power is pretty poor.

Under the deck, these amplifiers bear a remarkable similarity, as
if there is one generic board for many different versions. I have the
feeling that most of the brands come from the same factory.

I have seen one with a "Elps" (sic) input potentiometer.

Last winter I was in Viet Nam. I visited an audio wholesaler, who
offered me any ten Chinese amps in the warehouse for USD 1 000.

Most of them seem to be sold direct, not through a local dealer.
So, to whom to you turn when the amp fails?

Also, the ones I have seen carry no CE mark

Having said all that, as an entry level amp, they cannot be beaten,
as long as you don't expect something for nothing.



Difficult/impossible to disagree with anything you have said, but I have
to repeat that if the entry level for a 300B SET was an unavoidable
3,500 UKP or so, I would not have wandered off in that direction and
would probably not have got one myself. Buying cheap to 'practice with'
isn't confined to valve amps - it's the natural way in for a lot of
people in a lot of different ways and I suspect a lot more people will
progress from a cheap SET to a better one than will have been put off by
one going tits-up.

I would also add that I'm not too keen on the latest wave of Chinese
offerings; as you say: 'potted tranies', 'PCBs' and 'pretty boy'
cosmetics - all smacks of smart entrepreneurial types riding the wave of
some current fad which always (IMO) ultimately degrades rather than
enhances....

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
oups.com...
We had an amp shootout in the London Audiocircle tonight and had a
chance to hear 5 chinese amps.

A pair of Bez T3B 300b SETs sounded the best of the lot, and by some
margin.

Two 845 amps were admired for their top to bottom "authority". I
thought they were a bit bland compared to the life in the 300b amp.

A Push Pull EL34 amp with feedback was very forgettable. On the other
hand a KT88 amp with feedback switched off was not bad at all, though
inferior to the 845s and of course the 300b.

The Bez amps did have some good 300bs fitted, plus some nice 6J5gt
variants (including the 2C22).

This all made me very curious about what others have found in Chinese
amp shootouts. Keith, for example, must have a rank order of the best
by now!!

So - what's your experience of Chinese valve amps? Andy


Hi Andy. I have repaired a few (but not a Bez, which,
by all accounts is indeed one of the best)

It seems to me the Chinese alternative is a two-edged sword.
It gives people the chance to try a valve amp, without spending
a huge amount of money. But at the same time, reliability is nothing
like as good as it should be. This is reflected in very low second
hand value. People could get the idea that *all* valve amps are
unreliable.

Cosmetically they are quite good (you either like the Chinese "style"
or youi don't:-) You could not buy a stainless steel chassis here in
the EU for the price of a complete Chinese amplifier.

The ones I have worked on have simple faults, caused by poor quality
under-specified components - like skeleton pots for bias adjust etc.

Most have potted transformers. I suspect the transformers are quite
a lot smaller than the pots, because the bandwidth of these amps at
full power is pretty poor.

Under the deck, these amplifiers bear a remarkable similarity, as
if there is one generic board for many different versions. I have the
feeling that most of the brands come from the same factory.

I have seen one with a "Elps" (sic) input potentiometer.

Last winter I was in Viet Nam. I visited an audio wholesaler, who
offered me any ten Chinese amps in the warehouse for USD 1 000.

Most of them seem to be sold direct, not through a local dealer.
So, to whom to you turn when the amp fails?

Also, the ones I have seen carry no CE mark

Having said all that, as an entry level amp, they cannot be beaten,
as long as you don't expect something for nothing.

Cheers
Iain