On Nov 2, 2:29 pm, "Arny Krueger" wrote:

How to make a good SS amp sound like a SET:

Parallel a power suuply rated silicon diode across the terminals of of any
speaker that is driven by a SS amp. Put a 2 ohm resistors in series with the
speaker hot leads, going back to the power amp.

The 2 ohm resistor will pretty simulate the typical SET's high output
impedance, and the diode will simulate its nonlinearity.

If the bare diode is a bit gritty sounding (hard to believe that a LP & SET
tolerator would even notice!), try some resistors in series with the diode
in the range of 2,4, 8 ohms.

Hey, Krueger, why didn't you help out your pal Stewart Pinkerton with
this invaluable advice that time he tried (and failed disgracefully)
in his challenge to build a silicon amp that would sound better than a
ZNFB 300B i designed at the same time? He really needed you then... Or
did you withhold what you knew to punish him for telling the world
that you were no peer of his? Did you really want that badly for him
to be humiliated? Poor, poor Pinko. With a friend like you, Krueger,
he surely did not need any enemies.

Andre Jute
"I was at a board meeting for the LA Chapter of the Audio Engineering
Society last night on XM Satellite radio audio and data transmission.
Sadly, we missed you there, and at the SMPTE and Acoustical Society
recent meetings as well. Everyone was asking, 'Where is that wonderful
Andre Jute? The world just doesn't rotate without him...'" -- John
Mayberry, Emmaco

On Nov 2, 12:56 pm, "Keith G" wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote

PPS The SEX kit as above is super for what you want; SEX stands for
Single Ended eXperimenter's amp but the carriage from Poulsbo near
Seattle will be a killer. A super kit if it is still made is the Arion
Adonis (their base the last time I heard was in Northern Ireland),
about 20W from 5881, lovely casework with a polished stainless
topplate and excellent transformers designed by the sainted Simon
Shilton.

Hah!

The valve amp that was my introduction to valves (and slammed the door
shut forever on SS amps for music playback for me) was an Arion 'Tycho'
(still with the astronomical references today!) - ran as hot as a
blacksmith's forge with the odd red-hot resistor here and there, but
with a fabulous *fully Class A* sound from 8 x 5881 power valves. I only
got rid because it was a great big, complex bugger that needed a bit of
attention and because I had built my own not long after getting it.

It was also a bit humungeous:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Arion01.JPG

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Arion02.JPG

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Arion03.JPG

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Arion04.JPG

:-)

Sadly, Arion Acoustics went bust in 1997, I believe...

I had dealings with Arion after that. One of their guys bought the
name and the stock of Adonis kits, and was carrying on. But it is a
few years now since I heard from him.

Andre Jute
"Blessed is the man who, having nothing to say, abstains from giving
us wordly evidence of the fact."-- George Elliot

On Nov 2, 12:04 pm, Andy Evans wrote:
I can offer you the very, very rare Leak Stereo 30 Plus at a good
price...

I might just sacrifice my collection of Max Bygraves records for that!

I'll make change in Des O'Conor records...

I agree with everything below except this:

So we're not getting an unequal playing field
like a PP EL34 amp versus a 300b SET

True, it is difficult to design a really bad 300B SET, though I can
point to examples.

True, there have been some horrid EL34 PP, and the "engineering"
paradigm currently in favour is for extracting maximum power, using
maximum NFB, and bugger the quality of the sound, with predictable
results.

But that playing field is not tilted towards the 300B at all when the
EL34 are put in the right hands. It really depends on the design. My
experience is that if the EL34 are trioded and used in Class A1 PP
with conservative design and enough current on the driver to murder
Miller, and a few other sophisticated details that will give cost
engineers heartburn -- then you can trust practicing chamber musicians
in a blind test, playing their own recordings and specifically told to
select the closest to what they heard in the recording venue, to
choose the trioded EL34 Class A PP over the 300B SET. That is a
powerful argument in favour of giving the EL34 the same respect as the
venerable 300B.

In sighted tests the order is reversed, perhaps because they've read
Andy telling them nothing but DHT are any good...

Andre Jute
Impedance is futile, you will be simulated into the triode of the
Borg. -- Robert Casey


On Nov 2, 11:44 am, Andy Evans wrote:
On Nov 2, 1:29?am, "Keith G" wrote:

Your problems are not everybody's problems - choice of a SET is to
choose an amp for its characteristics. The bit you can't choke down is
that people buying/choosing/using SET amps consider those
characteristics to be beneficial. Three members of the 'St Neots Six'
(local enthusiasts) own and use SETS, one of the others prefers my SET
to my PP amps, another would like a SET and the last one keeps
threatening to build one but probably never will as he is getting
perhaps a bit to old for more building - otherwise that could easily
become a *100%* instance of SETs here!!

... and note that the
above is exactly what happened at one of our London Audiocircle meets,
where we auditioned about 10 amps - 845, 300b, 2a3, KT88, EL34 and
probably something I forgot. Everyone fell in love with the Bez 300b
SET. A month later four of our members had their own SET amps -
including me. Two guys bought 300b Music Angels, I built a 300b amp
and the other was an 805 amp. This does show that the 300b SET is a
mightly seductive little thing. Reasons for liking it were just that
it was naturally musical - not a "reason" as such, just a listening
preference. So, is this an infatuation with a honeymoon period or a
permanent preference. Well, in my case I don't quite know. I've been
very happy listening to the 300b for a week. But on the other hand
I've been listening to my latest 2a3 PP amp for a few days and it's
bloody good as well. Listening to this 2a3 amp you wonder if you'll go
back to the SET. I should say that all my amps now are total-DHT, all
valves directly heated. So we're not getting an unequal playing field
like a PP EL34 amp versus a 300b SET. All I can safely say is that if
you use good transformers, all DHTs, and use interstage trannies for
coupling rather than caps, then it's a mighty close thing. You may be
familiar with the Amity design and its sequels, which put PP
interstage coupled DHT amps on the map again (they did exist 60 years
before!!), if not check outhttp://www.nutshellhifi.com/.
My preliminary findings - SET more lush with excellent tonal and
timbral detail, PP cleaner with better leading edge attack. But make
no mistake, PP can give you that spooky "they're in the room in front
of me" feeling. I listened to Brahms violin sonata 2 in a lifelike
recording, and you could nearly smell the rosin and see the pianist
turning pages. Right now I'm perplexed which way to go in construction
terms - I can see virtues in both. I've built three PP 2a3 amps now
and one 300b SET. I guess to really know I need to build a 300b PP
amp. A 2a3 SET would be nice, but a bit low powered. Mind you, other
things beckon like a low voltage (450v) 845 PP amp and in particular a
PP 10Y amp. On the far side is a 2E22 amp - maybe even in SE pentode
to rock the boat. I'm sceptical but it has been done!
So my conclusion for now is that if you used the same valves and the
same transformer coupling, you would have two good amps, and it might
be hard to actually choose.

On Nov 2, 7:13 pm, Andre Jute wrote:

Bunch-O-Non-tube-related crap.

At about 1:13am Local time. And cross-posted it to boot.

So much for your vaunted claims.

Get your meds adjusted. Get a life. You _will_ be happier.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

"Peter Wieck" wrote in message oups.com...
Get your meds adjusted. Get a life. You _will_ be happier.

Peter, you're just encouraging Andre. This website helps explain why.

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq76.html

For instance:

Question:
Could negative input serve as Narcissistic Supply (NS)?

Answer:
Yes, it can. NS includes all forms of attention - both positive and negative:
fame, notoriety, adulation, fear, applause, approval. Whenever the narcissist
gets attention, positive or negative, whenever he is in the "limelight", it
constitutes NS. If he can manipulate people or influence them - positively
or negatively - it qualifies as NS. Even quarrelling with people and confronting
them constitute NS. Perhaps not the conflict itself, but the narcissist's ability
to influence other people, to make them feel the way he wants, to manipulate
them, to make them do something or refrain from doing it - all count as forms
of narcissistic supply. Hence the phenomenon of "serial litigators".

By the way, Andre definitely does not have Munchausen syndrome.

Did Stewart really die?

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Nov 2, 1:29?am, "Keith G" wrote:
"Trevor Wilson" wrote

snip magazine reviews and personal OSAFs

When examining the frequency response plots of the SET amps we can see
serious, highly audible flaws. When examining the distortion plots, we
can see serious audible flaws in most models at realistic listening
powers. Examining the plots of the other amplifiers, we can see no
obviously audible flaws. Choosing a SET amp over a push pull amp, is
therefore the deliberate choice of audible problems. Those audible
problems are completely artificial artefacts, not present in the
original sources.

Your problems are not everybody's problems - choice of a SET is to
choose an amp for its characteristics. The bit you can't choke down is
that people buying/choosing/using SET amps consider those
characteristics to be beneficial. Three members of the 'St Neots Six'
(local enthusiasts) own and use SETS, one of the others prefers my SET
to my PP amps, another would like a SET and the last one keeps
threatening to build one but probably never will as he is getting
perhaps a bit to old for more building - otherwise that could easily
become a *100%* instance of SETs here!!

I'm going to take a rest from trying to grapple with the considerable
weirdness of TWs mind (he now alternates between calling people
logically inconsistent and lying pieces of ****...)

**Let's set the record straight, here and now. Iain Churches is a lying
piece of ****. I was not referring to any other person. What's mo Iain
knows full well that he has lied and misrepresented my position. Several
times. Clear?


Trevor Wilson

Trevor Wilson wrote:

**Would you like me to provide the range of logical and
reasoned facts which prove that SET owners are idiots?

With logic and reason on the one hand, and idiocy on the
other, that might be difficult.

If you design an amp yourself, the result should be
predictable, and so you don't need to listen. I would build
a SET because there is no chance of me sampling one, with
attendant suitable speakers, for long enough to get
accustomed to it.

With a SET, in particular, it is wise to leave some room for
manoevre. I wouldn't be trying to recreate a sound I had
heard before. Rather it would be representative of the
breed, so I know that I am listening to what SET folk hear.
Then I would fiddle around with it like they do, until I got
it just right, which I understand takes a while.

Few would argue that they offer perfect reproduction. That's
not the point. A good SET and its speakers deliver a
legitimate, authentic presentation. I like a lot of the
stuff that their owner's say about them, so I might like to
get a slice of the action.

I don't go to several different concerts before deciding
which one I like best. I would expect to appreciate each for
what it is, as long as it's an authentic and legitimate
presentation.

Ian

In article , Ian Iveson
wrote:
[snip SET comments]

Few would argue that they offer perfect reproduction.

But some do?

That's not the point.

If by "the point", you mean the aim of those who prefer them, then perhaps.
But others might have a different "point". :-)

A good SET and its speakers deliver a legitimate, authentic
presentation.

Unless you are saying other amps are 'illegitimate' I am not sure what the
purpose would be of the first term you apply here. It isn't illegal or
immoral to use a SET so far as I know. :-)

Nor am I clear what you mean by "authentic" when talking about a device
that is driven with an input voltage-time pattern and responds by applying
a (hopefully related) voltage-time pattern to loudspeaker terminals.

If you mean, some people prefer using them, sometimes for some types of
music but not others. Fair enough. That seems a simpler and clearer
statement than saying they are "legitimate" or "authentic". Or are you
making some other specific point(s) which requires the terms you apply to
be defined more precisely for this context?


I don't go to several different concerts before deciding which one I
like best. I would expect to appreciate each for what it is, as long as
it's an authentic and legitimate presentation.

Indeed, but that refers to going to concerts, not talking about SET.
In that context "authentic" does have a plausible meaning, but I am
less clear what you'd mean by "legitimate".

TBH I don't know anyone who *does* "go to different concerts before
deciding which one they like". I, and others I know, got to different
concerts to hear and enjoy different performances

Is it that you regard it as sensible to have just one recording of
a work, and change from one SET amp to another in order to get one
that sounds like Beecham at the RAH and another like Boult at
Croydon? If so, would it not be simpler just to buy different recordings
for different interpretations? Or if reproduced music does not satisfy
you, just go out more? :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
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