"Andy Evans" wrote in message
ups.com...
Quite a few of us started out by repairing our old Leak Stereo 20s and
the like. It's still a great road into amp building. for a first step
I'd do exactly that - buy a Leak Stereo 20 and upgrade it with modern
componants. It's all point to point wiring and totally accessible.
Plus you have the leak group as backing to talk you through it. Morgan
Jones even has a suggested circuit for it in his Valve Amplifiers,
which you absolutely must buy. (that's an order!!!)

I think to date I've been through about 30 different circuits in my
Leak Stereo 20!!!




Agreed Andy. A Leak Stereo 20 is a good place to start. I
have just finished one of those (actually I was putting it back to
original spec before doing the MJ changes and also those
suggested by my good friend Peter Lewis.

Leaks do have stability problems, and so cannot be claimed
to be unconditionally stable in the true sense of the term. Put
a 0.22µF across the output terminals and watch it dance:-)

But it's a great place to start. and much more informative than
building a kit.

There are plenty of people here, and also on RAT who are happy
to help.

Iain

max graff wrote:

I am planning on building my own valve amp and need a
starting point
viz. books, forums etc. Any tips would be of good help.

I have proved to myself that I can solder well and don't
have shakey
hands and did EE in my previous life.


As well as Morgan Jones, you might consider "Valve and
Transistor Audio Amplifiers" by John Linsley Hood. This puts
the main design issues into historical context, with most of
the classic circuits covered. The two books make a good
pair.

The bible is RDH4, which is enormously detailed and
consequently turgid. Easily found.

Availability and cost of good transformers should be kept in
mind while you're thinking what design to build. A visit to
a few transformer suppliers' sites might be interesting,
such as

http://www.sowter.co.uk/

For valve datasheets and loads of schematics, this is a good
place to start:

http://www.duncanamps.com/

Good luck

Ian

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"max graff" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi guys,

I am planning on building my own valve amp and need a starting point
viz. books, forums etc. Any tips would be of good help.

**Just listen to a bunch of amps in your price range. Buy or build the one
you like. Just for yuks, see if you can organise a blind test of the amps.
That orta sort out the dodgy ones. For valve amps, unless you build it
PRECISELY the way you hear it (same valves, same output transformers, etc)
you will be wasting your time.



It is *never* a waste if time, Trevor.
For many, that is the whole point of building a valve/tube amp. One can
try different brands of the same small signal tube. They will probably have
identical very low distortion, but slightly differing distortion spectra.
Each will sound a little different - not necessarily better or worse -
but different. That's what people mean by "tube voicing"

It's a fascinating hobby.

Iain

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"max graff" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi guys,

I am planning on building my own valve amp and need a starting point
viz. books, forums etc. Any tips would be of good help.

**Just listen to a bunch of amps in your price range. Buy or build the
one you like. Just for yuks, see if you can organise a blind test of the
amps. That orta sort out the dodgy ones. For valve amps, unless you build
it PRECISELY the way you hear it (same valves, same output transformers,
etc) you will be wasting your time.


More totally stupid *advice* from Trevor...

**Not at all. We do things a little differently in this part of the world.
We don't marry a woman without tasting the cooking or checking out the
bedroom performance. We don't buy a car without test driving it first and
and we don't buy hi fi equipment without first listening to it. At least,
that's how sane people do it.


For a kick-off, how TF do you suggest he goes about organising the test -
ask 'Valve Amps R Us' if he can play with half their stock for a few hours
then, having picked one (real easy), ask them for a circuit diagram and a
parts list for it...??

**If you can't hear it, don't buy it. Very simple.

Trevor Wilson

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"max graff" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi guys,

I am planning on building my own valve amp and need a starting point
viz. books, forums etc. Any tips would be of good help.

**Just listen to a bunch of amps in your price range. Buy or build the
one
you like. Just for yuks, see if you can organise a blind test of the
amps.
That orta sort out the dodgy ones. For valve amps, unless you build it
PRECISELY the way you hear it (same valves, same output transformers,
etc)
you will be wasting your time.



It is *never* a waste if time, Trevor.
For many, that is the whole point of building a valve/tube amp. One can
try different brands of the same small signal tube. They will probably
have
identical very low distortion, but slightly differing distortion spectra.
Each will sound a little different - not necessarily better or worse -
but different. That's what people mean by "tube voicing"

It's a fascinating hobby.

**Far and away, the biggest variable with a valve amp is the output
transformer. By the time people have purchased half a dozen different
transformers, so they can vary the 'voicing' (as you put it), they will be
much poorer. THEN you can muck about with different valves. A much better
idea is to listen to a range of amps and select the one which suits.

Your method is incredibly inefficient and, ultimately, clumsy. It ain't
fascinating.

Trevor Wilson

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"max graff" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi guys,

I am planning on building my own valve amp and need a starting
point
viz. books, forums etc. Any tips would be of good help.

**Just listen to a bunch of amps in your price range. Buy or build
the one you like. Just for yuks, see if you can organise a blind
test of the amps. That orta sort out the dodgy ones. For valve amps,
unless you build it PRECISELY the way you hear it (same valves, same
output transformers, etc) you will be wasting your time.


More totally stupid *advice* from Trevor...

**Not at all. We do things a little differently in this part of the
world. We don't marry a woman without tasting the cooking or checking
out the bedroom performance. We don't buy a car without test driving
it first and and we don't buy hi fi equipment without first listening
to it. At least, that's how sane people do it.


Hmm, so all those 'Dumb Sheila' jokes were *true* then?

(What do ugly people do? :-)




For a kick-off, how TF do you suggest he goes about organising the
test - ask 'Valve Amps R Us' if he can play with half their stock for
a few hours then, having picked one (real easy), ask them for a
circuit diagram and a parts list for it...??

**If you can't hear it, don't buy it. Very simple.


What you suggest is barely *doable*, if not outright impossible!
Contrary to what you're obviously used to, valve amps aren't sold on
every street corner in the UK; I can only think of one outfit that would
have a rake of them and that's Walrus. Most of the models they stock
wouldn't be very suitable for 'cloning' and I suspect they'd tell you to
take a hike if you asked to prat about doing blind tests on their
premises - and, before you ask, the likelihood of them them letting take
a bunch of them home for testing (and return) is not high, I suspect...

Then, if by some chance you did manage to hear a suitable candidate for
cloning, it would *not* sound like a 'carbon copy' of it unless the
identical componernts (and, I suspect, wiring layout) was used
throughout and, even if it was, it would sound nothing like the pattern
amp if it was of any vintage. You know that yourself - see your own
comments about transformer differences in your reply to Iain.

What the OP needs to do is listen to those who are experienced with real
*buildable* circuits and follow the advice he likes the sound of best -
he's got to start somewhere and damn near every 'normal' PP amp on the
planet owes summat to the early Mullard designs (AFAIK) so why struggle
against it??

(Different with SETs of course, but I'd recommend a SET as a start amp
for a number of reasons!)

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"max graff" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi guys,

I am planning on building my own valve amp and need a starting
point
viz. books, forums etc. Any tips would be of good help.

**Just listen to a bunch of amps in your price range. Buy or build
the one
you like. Just for yuks, see if you can organise a blind test of the
amps.
That orta sort out the dodgy ones. For valve amps, unless you build
it
PRECISELY the way you hear it (same valves, same output
transformers, etc)
you will be wasting your time.



It is *never* a waste if time, Trevor.
For many, that is the whole point of building a valve/tube amp. One
can
try different brands of the same small signal tube. They will
probably have
identical very low distortion, but slightly differing distortion
spectra.
Each will sound a little different - not necessarily better or
worse -
but different. That's what people mean by "tube voicing"

It's a fascinating hobby.

**Far and away, the biggest variable with a valve amp is the output
transformer. By the time people have purchased half a dozen different
transformers, so they can vary the 'voicing' (as you put it), they
will be much poorer. THEN you can muck about with different valves. A
much better idea is to listen to a range of amps and select the one
which suits.



The trouble with listening to a *range* of valve amps is that, after the
first 2 or 3 dozen, they all start to sound the same....

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"max graff" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi guys,

I am planning on building my own valve amp and need a starting point
viz. books, forums etc. Any tips would be of good help.

**Just listen to a bunch of amps in your price range. Buy or build the
one you like. Just for yuks, see if you can organise a blind test of
the amps. That orta sort out the dodgy ones. For valve amps, unless you
build it PRECISELY the way you hear it (same valves, same output
transformers, etc) you will be wasting your time.


More totally stupid *advice* from Trevor...

**Not at all. We do things a little differently in this part of the
world. We don't marry a woman without tasting the cooking or checking out
the bedroom performance. We don't buy a car without test driving it first
and and we don't buy hi fi equipment without first listening to it. At
least, that's how sane people do it.


Hmm, so all those 'Dumb Sheila' jokes were *true* then?

(What do ugly people do? :-)

**They bonk ugly people. Unless they're rich. Rich ugly people can bonk
pretty much whomever they want. Look at Mick Jagger.





For a kick-off, how TF do you suggest he goes about organising the
test - ask 'Valve Amps R Us' if he can play with half their stock for a
few hours then, having picked one (real easy), ask them for a circuit
diagram and a parts list for it...??

**If you can't hear it, don't buy it. Very simple.


What you suggest is barely *doable*, if not outright impossible!

**Utter bull****. Call up your dealer and organise a listen. That's what
dealers are for.

Contrary to what you're obviously used to, valve amps aren't sold on every
street corner in the UK; I can only think of one outfit that would have a
rake of them and that's Walrus. Most of the models they stock wouldn't be
very suitable for 'cloning' and I suspect they'd tell you to take a hike
if you asked to prat about doing blind tests on their premises - and,
before you ask, the likelihood of them them letting take a bunch of them
home for testing (and return) is not high, I suspect...

**Then go to another dealer.


Then, if by some chance you did manage to hear a suitable candidate for
cloning, it would *not* sound like a 'carbon copy' of it unless the
identical componernts (and, I suspect, wiring layout) was used throughout
and, even if it was, it would sound nothing like the pattern amp if it was
of any vintage. You know that yourself - see your own comments about
transformer differences in your reply to Iain.

**Correct.


What the OP needs to do is listen to those who are experienced with real
*buildable* circuits and follow the advice he likes the sound of best -
he's got to start somewhere and damn near every 'normal' PP amp on the
planet owes summat to the early Mullard designs (AFAIK) so why struggle
against it??

**Why trust what people say? Some people are seriously deluded. How is Max
to know if the people he is speaking to know anything at all? MUCH better
for him to listen to a product, BEFORE plonking down the cash.


(Different with SETs of course, but I'd recommend a SET as a start amp for
a number of reasons!)

**SETs are for idiots.

Trevor Wilson

Trevor Wilson wrote:


What the OP needs to do is listen to those who are experienced with real
*buildable* circuits and follow the advice he likes the sound of best -
he's got to start somewhere and damn near every 'normal' PP amp on the
planet owes summat to the early Mullard designs (AFAIK) so why struggle
against it??


**Why trust what people say? Some people are seriously deluded. How is Max
to know if the people he is speaking to know anything at all? MUCH better
for him to listen to a product, BEFORE plonking down the cash.


Because the OP asked about BUILDING a amplifier, given you find this
mythical dealer that lets you geard some commercial amps, what then, ask
the maker for the winding schedule for their TX's


(Different with SETs of course, but I'd recommend a SET as a start amp for
a number of reasons!)


**SETs are for idiots.

"Why trust what people say? Some people are seriously deluded."

--
Nick

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in
message ...

"max graff" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi guys,

I am planning on building my own valve amp and need a starting
point
viz. books, forums etc. Any tips would be of good help.

**Just listen to a bunch of amps in your price range. Buy or build
the one you like. Just for yuks, see if you can organise a blind
test of the amps. That orta sort out the dodgy ones. For valve
amps, unless you build it PRECISELY the way you hear it (same
valves, same output transformers, etc) you will be wasting your
time.


More totally stupid *advice* from Trevor...

**Not at all. We do things a little differently in this part of the
world. We don't marry a woman without tasting the cooking or
checking out the bedroom performance. We don't buy a car without
test driving it first and and we don't buy hi fi equipment without
first listening to it. At least, that's how sane people do it.


Hmm, so all those 'Dumb Sheila' jokes were *true* then?

(What do ugly people do? :-)

**They bonk ugly people. Unless they're rich. Rich ugly people can
bonk pretty much whomever they want. Look at Mick Jagger.


It is impossible to be rich *and* ugly - ask anyone...







For a kick-off, how TF do you suggest he goes about organising the
test - ask 'Valve Amps R Us' if he can play with half their stock
for a few hours then, having picked one (real easy), ask them for a
circuit diagram and a parts list for it...??

**If you can't hear it, don't buy it. Very simple.


What you suggest is barely *doable*, if not outright impossible!

**Utter bull****. Call up your dealer and organise a listen. That's
what dealers are for.


OK, Clevor Trevor, you got all the answers (from a corrugated iron shack
in Alice Springs?) suggest a dealer the OP could call, other than Walrus
who I've already mentioned. (Hint: he'll phone a dozen hifi dealers
before he gets one who's ever *seen* a valve amp....)



Contrary to what you're obviously used to, valve amps aren't sold on
every street corner in the UK; I can only think of one outfit that
would have a rake of them and that's Walrus. Most of the models they
stock wouldn't be very suitable for 'cloning' and I suspect they'd
tell you to take a hike if you asked to prat about doing blind tests
on their premises - and, before you ask, the likelihood of them them
letting take a bunch of them home for testing (and return) is not
high, I suspect...

**Then go to another dealer.


You haven't nominated the first one yet...




Then, if by some chance you did manage to hear a suitable candidate
for cloning, it would *not* sound like a 'carbon copy' of it unless
the identical componernts (and, I suspect, wiring layout) was used
throughout and, even if it was, it would sound nothing like the
pattern amp if it was of any vintage. You know that yourself - see
your own comments about transformer differences in your reply to
Iain.

**Correct.


What the OP needs to do is listen to those who are experienced with
real *buildable* circuits and follow the advice he likes the sound of
best - he's got to start somewhere and damn near every 'normal' PP
amp on the planet owes summat to the early Mullard designs (AFAIK) so
why struggle against it??

**Why trust what people say?


Why ****ing ask, if you aren't going to trust the respondent(s)?


Some people are seriously deluded. How is Max
to know if the people he is speaking to know anything at all?


That's for him to judge - he's a regular here (almost, he knows the way
it goes...


MUCH better
for him to listen to a product, BEFORE plonking down the cash.


Yes, of course but what you're not quite picking up on is that it's a
tad difficult to get to hear a 'range' of valve amps. I've held my door
open for a number of years and several people have been here to listen
to various amps - right now I could field 4 different ones....

An aside: Earlier today Chinese Willy came to collect the Trio tuner
he'd bought from me on eBay. (Came originally from HK but had really
ever heard a valve amp wouldya believe??!!) I asked 'What do you do?' -
he says 'Design computer motherboards'!!

Anyway, he was blown over by the Bez and had to have the link to the
site emailed home. (I don't have the appropriate Character Set on this
machine and I don't want it!) He cleared up one mystery for me - a while
back, it was quite obvious the Bez site was using the word 'cows' to
mean transformers so I asked him how did it translate like that - he
told me it was a general purpose word to mean a 'work animal'. I asked
'like a *mule*'? and got a fair bit of eager Chinese smiley/nodding! :-

Check the 'Special Offers Components' page for the word 'cattle' he

http://translate.google.com/translat...%3Den%26sa%3DG

:-)




(Different with SETs of course, but I'd recommend a SET as a start
amp for a number of reasons!)

**SETs are for idiots.


See above. (Designed any motherboards lately, turnip?)