Robber Baron Redux: Location, Location, Location....
 

"tony sayer" wrote


So you agree a 50 quid an hour rate plus parts then?..



Sounds good to me - when do I start?


Ah!, can't find any paying punters mate;!..

They want you to work for bugger all..


That'll be the Poles, I expect....


Seriously I'm bloody glad I don't run a domestic retail or servicing
place, can't think of much worse;!....


Every business on the planet depends on the same thing for its success -
getting the supply and demand equation right. Should be simple enough
but, unfortunately, there's a lot can go wrong and many more businesses
fail than succeed. Offhand, I'd say the demand for repair work is on the
decline (for any number of reasons) and anybody that had been looking to
make a living from it should be thinking of supplementing his income
with other work....

Robber Baron Redux: Location, Location, Location....
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Your snipping and attribution's all to **** again, Plowie - I
think
you're trying to answer too many people with one response. Sort
yourself
out FFS.....

Have a look at your reply to 'borosteve' - then get that moat out
of
your eye.


Moat?

:-)

(Try *mote* next time....)

Fell straight in. Don't address the point of the post - just pick up
on
the spelling. Thanks for confirming my views of you.


Any time....



--
*Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Robber Baron Redux: Location, Location, Location....
 

On 8 Nov, 21:47, "Keith G" wrote:
"borosteve" wrote in message

oups.com...
On 8 Nov, 13:10, "Keith G" wrote:





"borosteve" wrote in message

oups.com...
On 7 Nov, 16:37, "Keith G" wrote:

A little while ago I bumped into my neighbour again and had the
chance
to briefly confirm a few points in the VCR repair saga...

Apparently the VCR was/is a Panasonic and is about 3 years old.
(Fekkin'
good start, but let's not get bogged down at this stage...) My
neighbour
has no special attachment to it and simply wanted it fixed for as
little
as possible (naturally). He had had no idea VCRs were so cheap and
he
thinks the shop should have (or could have) mentioned it and given
him
the option of getting a cheaper replacement, even if it meant
sourcing
it elsewhere. He thinks the hifi shop owners are shysters (not new,
apparently!) and only goes there out of habit and for obvious
convenience.

It's all about location and the lack of real competition and having
decades (whole century really) of thickies bussing into town to
trade
their turnip money for shiny things. Of course it can't last
forever,
what with the 'Web' an' all, but it's pretty obvious to me these ole
boys plan to go down with all credit card readers *blazing*!!

(It's not just the hifi shop - having bought no less than 3 bikes
from
the local 'bike shop this year and despite Tone the Clone working
there,
I think they are pretty much the same - *no discount, because we
don't
have to* kinda thing....!)

Maybe it's me...

Maybe it's *that* time of the year again...

I work and earn a living (just) in the electronics retail business and
have always wondered why our industry is always expected to give
discounts on our products and services when people don't ask for a
better (for them) price when they visit the supermarket and trundle
out the door with £100's worth of shopping.Or ask there solicitor for
a discount when moving house. We work on relatively low margins
compared to say the furniture business;not surprising that a sofa can
drop from £1200 down to £399 and still make a good margin! I wish
people would wake up and smell the coffee as before long there will be
no high street retailers of anything except charity shops and there
will be no chance of trying (hearing) anything before you buy as there
will be nowhere but the internet to buy the latest 5star reviewed bit
of kit.Thankfully there are still purchasers that DO appreciate the
advice and service afforded by a quality high street retailer and are
prepared to shun the internet in favour of better back-up and peace of
mind.

Sorry Borosteve, I think I see things a little differently from my
side
of the counter....

No-one (much) is under any illusions about the profits any well-run
retail shop can make if it isn't trying to peddle crap (or even if it
is
peddling crap in the right manner). As the same (VCR) next door
neighbour said less than an hour ago 'shopkeepers used to be in it for
a
living and now they're in it to get rich'! Profit is the name of the
game and no self-respecting shopkeeper in this neck of the woods has a
house worth less than 1.5 million - it's standard issue!

I'm sure your place is *entirely* different, but my experience of many
shops is that they aren't really able to offer any real advice,
service
depends on how late the sales assistant got in the night before and
'backup' as you call it invariably means being told to contact the UK
representatives of the manufacturers direct when summat goes tits-up
in
the warranty period. *Good* shops do exist (even here) that do seem to
be able to offer a useful blend of price and service and it's always a
pleasure to put a bit of work their way, but I think a lot of people
will say that shopping is largely an *unlovely* experience these days!

No-one tries to haggle with supermarkets and garages because the
stuff's
already too cheap (witness the lard so many people are hauling around
these days) in the first instance and because they can't in the
second!

Now, having mentioned the neighbour - apparently the 'revised price'
for
the VCR repair was 39 quid (not 29) and that almost certainly subject
to
VAT, so the original 'estimate' of 50 quid was about right. Still a
crock, in my book...

Personal anecdote:

I bought summat (can't remember what) from the *other* hifi shop (an
ex
employee of the first shop and who hates the family who own/run the
first shop) and for some reason looked it up on the website when I got
back. I was a bit surprised to find it was exactly 10 quid cheaper! I
contacted the shop owner (know him very well) and said WTF? and was
regaled (yet again) with the 'Internet prices are cheaper blah blah
blah.. I said 'so I've paid 10 quid for the privilege of carrying the
item home and saving you having to ship it? (It's just the one shop -
the item would have been carried out of the same door no matter what!)
I
said 'fine but you know what I'll do (or not do) in the future, don't
you?' and said cheerio. About an hour later he phoned up to tell me
he'd
refunded the ten quid (credit card) and had decided not to quibble
when
people quoted prices from his website in the future...!!

The same shop had (probably still has) - checks...

Yep:

http://www.audiovision.co.uk/#7114X0

an Infocus 72 DLP Digital PJ advertised for £895. Swim bought hers for
400 odd quid from (struggles, gives up - can't remember) OK, asks son
and he says (he remembers this stuff) it was £495 from:

http://www.creative-audio.co.uk/

But is discontinued and has been cheaper since!

Now Boro, me auld china, that's 400 hundred quid difference on one
gadget - how much ****ing *support* do you think the local shops
should
get?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Dear keith,

I'm sorry to hear that you haven't had any good experiences of quality
retailing, but at the end of the day all retailers on the high street
have overheads that the internet chavs don't have to suffer. Also, is
it a crime to make a profit so that we can live in a 3 bed semi and
drive a car to work? Now I'm not saying that to do this we have to rip
people off because most honest retailers don't. But we have to be
realistic and if we give all our margin away on a product or service
well whats the point? You pays your money and you makes the choice
you're happy to live with.Save a few quid and buy from a fly by night
knowing that if there's a problem you're stuffed or buying through a
good retailer that WILL give good advice and help you if things go
wrong. By the way, have you noticed how many electrical retailers have
gone out of business in the last few years? Must be ALL that money
they were making eh? The only hifi dealers that will survive this
obsession with prices and the internet are those that just do a bloody
good job of offering the right products at sensible prices with
excellent back up; not trying to compete with the internet on
discounting. On your point about supermarkets selling cheap stuff...
your wife must do your shopping does she!? Six tomatoes for nearly a
quid! Come on.

Sorry Boro, contrary to what you and a whole lot of other high street
retailers might think, we can't halt the march of time just to give you
a chance to line your pockets. There's a lot going for Internet shopping
and it's here to stay - you'd better get used to the idea and get a
website going!

(Snipping: I'll snip when there's 10 indents in a row like the other
lazy bleeders in here - OK?)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Keith,
I'm not saying there is'nt a place for internet selling, of course
there is and it is here to stay, but if I want to be just a cashier
I'll get a job in a supermarket.

Robber Baron Redux: Location, Location, Location....
 

"borosteve" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 8 Nov, 21:47, "Keith G" wrote:
"borosteve" wrote in message

oups.com...
On 8 Nov, 13:10, "Keith G" wrote:





"borosteve" wrote in message

oups.com...
On 7 Nov, 16:37, "Keith G" wrote:

A little while ago I bumped into my neighbour again and had the
chance
to briefly confirm a few points in the VCR repair saga...

Apparently the VCR was/is a Panasonic and is about 3 years old.
(Fekkin'
good start, but let's not get bogged down at this stage...) My
neighbour
has no special attachment to it and simply wanted it fixed for as
little
as possible (naturally). He had had no idea VCRs were so cheap and
he
thinks the shop should have (or could have) mentioned it and given
him
the option of getting a cheaper replacement, even if it meant
sourcing
it elsewhere. He thinks the hifi shop owners are shysters (not
new,
apparently!) and only goes there out of habit and for obvious
convenience.

It's all about location and the lack of real competition and
having
decades (whole century really) of thickies bussing into town to
trade
their turnip money for shiny things. Of course it can't last
forever,
what with the 'Web' an' all, but it's pretty obvious to me these
ole
boys plan to go down with all credit card readers *blazing*!!

(It's not just the hifi shop - having bought no less than 3 bikes
from
the local 'bike shop this year and despite Tone the Clone working
there,
I think they are pretty much the same - *no discount, because we
don't
have to* kinda thing....!)

Maybe it's me...

Maybe it's *that* time of the year again...

I work and earn a living (just) in the electronics retail business
and
have always wondered why our industry is always expected to give
discounts on our products and services when people don't ask for a
better (for them) price when they visit the supermarket and trundle
out the door with £100's worth of shopping.Or ask there solicitor
for
a discount when moving house. We work on relatively low margins
compared to say the furniture business;not surprising that a sofa
can
drop from £1200 down to £399 and still make a good margin! I wish
people would wake up and smell the coffee as before long there will
be
no high street retailers of anything except charity shops and there
will be no chance of trying (hearing) anything before you buy as
there
will be nowhere but the internet to buy the latest 5star reviewed
bit
of kit.Thankfully there are still purchasers that DO appreciate the
advice and service afforded by a quality high street retailer and
are
prepared to shun the internet in favour of better back-up and peace
of
mind.

Sorry Borosteve, I think I see things a little differently from my
side
of the counter....

No-one (much) is under any illusions about the profits any well-run
retail shop can make if it isn't trying to peddle crap (or even if
it
is
peddling crap in the right manner). As the same (VCR) next door
neighbour said less than an hour ago 'shopkeepers used to be in it
for
a
living and now they're in it to get rich'! Profit is the name of the
game and no self-respecting shopkeeper in this neck of the woods has
a
house worth less than 1.5 million - it's standard issue!

I'm sure your place is *entirely* different, but my experience of
many
shops is that they aren't really able to offer any real advice,
service
depends on how late the sales assistant got in the night before and
'backup' as you call it invariably means being told to contact the
UK
representatives of the manufacturers direct when summat goes tits-up
in
the warranty period. *Good* shops do exist (even here) that do seem
to
be able to offer a useful blend of price and service and it's always
a
pleasure to put a bit of work their way, but I think a lot of people
will say that shopping is largely an *unlovely* experience these
days!

No-one tries to haggle with supermarkets and garages because the
stuff's
already too cheap (witness the lard so many people are hauling
around
these days) in the first instance and because they can't in the
second!

Now, having mentioned the neighbour - apparently the 'revised price'
for
the VCR repair was 39 quid (not 29) and that almost certainly
subject
to
VAT, so the original 'estimate' of 50 quid was about right. Still a
crock, in my book...

Personal anecdote:

I bought summat (can't remember what) from the *other* hifi shop (an
ex
employee of the first shop and who hates the family who own/run the
first shop) and for some reason looked it up on the website when I
got
back. I was a bit surprised to find it was exactly 10 quid cheaper!
I
contacted the shop owner (know him very well) and said WTF? and was
regaled (yet again) with the 'Internet prices are cheaper blah blah
blah.. I said 'so I've paid 10 quid for the privilege of carrying
the
item home and saving you having to ship it? (It's just the one
shop -
the item would have been carried out of the same door no matter
what!)
I
said 'fine but you know what I'll do (or not do) in the future,
don't
you?' and said cheerio. About an hour later he phoned up to tell me
he'd
refunded the ten quid (credit card) and had decided not to quibble
when
people quoted prices from his website in the future...!!

The same shop had (probably still has) - checks...

Yep:

http://www.audiovision.co.uk/#7114X0

an Infocus 72 DLP Digital PJ advertised for £895. Swim bought hers
for
400 odd quid from (struggles, gives up - can't remember) OK, asks
son
and he says (he remembers this stuff) it was £495 from:

http://www.creative-audio.co.uk/

But is discontinued and has been cheaper since!

Now Boro, me auld china, that's 400 hundred quid difference on one
gadget - how much ****ing *support* do you think the local shops
should
get?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Dear keith,

I'm sorry to hear that you haven't had any good experiences of quality
retailing, but at the end of the day all retailers on the high street
have overheads that the internet chavs don't have to suffer. Also, is
it a crime to make a profit so that we can live in a 3 bed semi and
drive a car to work? Now I'm not saying that to do this we have to rip
people off because most honest retailers don't. But we have to be
realistic and if we give all our margin away on a product or service
well whats the point? You pays your money and you makes the choice
you're happy to live with.Save a few quid and buy from a fly by night
knowing that if there's a problem you're stuffed or buying through a
good retailer that WILL give good advice and help you if things go
wrong. By the way, have you noticed how many electrical retailers have
gone out of business in the last few years? Must be ALL that money
they were making eh? The only hifi dealers that will survive this
obsession with prices and the internet are those that just do a bloody
good job of offering the right products at sensible prices with
excellent back up; not trying to compete with the internet on
discounting. On your point about supermarkets selling cheap stuff...
your wife must do your shopping does she!? Six tomatoes for nearly a
quid! Come on.

Sorry Boro, contrary to what you and a whole lot of other high street
retailers might think, we can't halt the march of time just to give
you
a chance to line your pockets. There's a lot going for Internet
shopping
and it's here to stay - you'd better get used to the idea and get a
website going!

(Snipping: I'll snip when there's 10 indents in a row like the other
lazy bleeders in here - OK?)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Keith,
I'm not saying there is'nt a place for internet selling, of course
there is and it is here to stay, but if I want to be just a cashier
I'll get a job in a supermarket.


Fine, but to ignore the way things are these days could be disastrous -
don't fight the Internet, *use it* - get a website going, get into
online directories, come up in Google searches!

Random thoughts: One big error many small retailers seem to make is to
say 'Here I am and this is what I want and how I want to do it' whereas
Joe Public is a lot more clued-in than he used to be and he knows how to
rock and roll, so the retailer who asks his customers 'What do *you*
want?' is going to stand a lot better chance in my book. Another big
mistake to make is to think that the Internet is always much cheaper on
everything (it isn't) and that they always have the Desired Objects in
stock (they don't). If I was a retailer who was obviously being used as
a showroom for an unknown Internet supplier, instead of getting the arse
(like I've seen one or two them do) I'd just say 'Nice to see you in -
come back if they can't sort you out and we'll see what we can do!'

The worst thing *by far* for me is the clowns selling *leisure goods*
(ie hobby/luxury stuff) who hit you with the 'City Desk Busy Busy Busy
Time Is Money' BS when one is thinking of dropping a few ackers on Shiny
Things - those ****s have no idea how much damage they do to themslves
in the long run!

If it makes you feel any happier - we were always pleased to be given
the chance to be the *cheapest* and as 'merchants' we also got to fund
the operation! My 'career sales total' was about £80,000,000 and none of
that was ever on a plate, believe you me! In fact, the only time you'd
get an order *easily* would be from someone whose credit was in the poo
elsewhere and you really wouldn't want it!! Obviously we were in a
'repeat business' so the service/price blend was paramount, especially
as our customers had any number of other places they could go to for the
zack same thing (building materials)!

My advice to small retailers and tradespeople - forget the money, just
do as good a job as you can and provide what your customers want to the
best of your ability and it'll be OK in the end, but subsidise your
operation as necessary until its reached the point of economic
viability! In fact, I can think of two people (small builders) whose
wives' *supplementary businesses* became runaway successes and one of
them packed his operation in to go and work for his wife - Robby's Cake
Shop (and bakery) in the Arnedale, Luton I believe...!??

Robber Baron Redux: Location, Location, Location....
 

In article , Keith G
scribeth thus

"tony sayer" wrote


So you agree a 50 quid an hour rate plus parts then?..



Sounds good to me - when do I start?


Ah!, can't find any paying punters mate;!..

They want you to work for bugger all..


That'll be the Poles, I expect....

Why should it be them?, I've several people ask me can I look at their
Hi-fi, Telly, radio whatever and fix it on the cheap!..



Seriously I'm bloody glad I don't run a domestic retail or servicing
place, can't think of much worse;!....


Every business on the planet depends on the same thing for its success -
getting the supply and demand equation right. Should be simple enough
but, unfortunately, there's a lot can go wrong and many more businesses
fail than succeed. Offhand, I'd say the demand for repair work is on the
decline (for any number of reasons) and anybody that had been looking to
make a living from it should be thinking of supplementing his income
with other work....

Yes quite what's happening from some sectors especially consumer grade
equipment's, still we'll just dig out some more gravel to chuck that
into;!.



Supplementing the income.. Working all hours to keep up with all that
friggin government paperwork!..

--
Tony Sayer

Robber Baron Redux: Location, Location, Location....
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...


Every business on the planet depends on the same thing for its success -
getting the supply and demand equation right. Should be simple enough but,
unfortunately, there's a lot can go wrong and many more businesses fail
than succeed. Offhand, I'd say the demand for repair work is on the
decline (for any number of reasons) and anybody that had been looking to
make a living from it should be thinking of supplementing his income with
other work....


Agreed. Here in ScandiLand we recycle almost everything. One often
sees five year old TVs, VCRs and CD players in the skips.

One good area seems to be guitar amp servicing and repair. I
share a workshop with two guys who do this, and are up to their
necks in work. Jobs range from new valves and re-bias and
cap changes to full rebuilds.

Iain

Robber Baron Redux: Location, Location, Location....
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
ti.fi...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...


Every business on the planet depends on the same thing for its
success - getting the supply and demand equation right. Should be
simple enough but, unfortunately, there's a lot can go wrong and many
more businesses fail than succeed. Offhand, I'd say the demand for
repair work is on the decline (for any number of reasons) and anybody
that had been looking to make a living from it should be thinking of
supplementing his income with other work....


Agreed. Here in ScandiLand we recycle almost everything. One often
sees five year old TVs, VCRs and CD players in the skips.


In the skips as in 'thrown out' or 'for recycle' - here (UK) a skip is
on its way to the landfill and those goods are 'not allowed' in
skips...???



One good area seems to be guitar amp servicing and repair. I
share a workshop with two guys who do this, and are up to their
necks in work. Jobs range from new valves and re-bias and
cap changes to full rebuilds.


Some stuff lends itself to repair, some doesn't - for instance, I bet
no-one here has his socks darned any more and precious few will be
wearing shoes that are repairable. But the 'repair vs. replace' debate
is an interesting one - not everything should be repaired and certainly
not by untrained or even 'unlicenced' personnel....

Robber Baron Redux: Location, Location, Location....
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
ti.fi...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...


Every business on the planet depends on the same thing for its success -
getting the supply and demand equation right. Should be simple enough
but, unfortunately, there's a lot can go wrong and many more businesses
fail than succeed. Offhand, I'd say the demand for repair work is on the
decline (for any number of reasons) and anybody that had been looking to
make a living from it should be thinking of supplementing his income
with other work....


Agreed. Here in ScandiLand we recycle almost everything. One often
sees five year old TVs, VCRs and CD players in the skips.


In the skips as in 'thrown out' or 'for recycle' - here (UK) a skip is on
its way to the landfill and those goods are 'not allowed' in skips...???

We have very little landfill material. Recycling places can be found in
all areas. There are huge skips marked "metal, plastic, wood, TVs,
computers etc etc. In fact the landfill material had decresed so much
by the recycling of all paper, glass, timber, cardboard, milk cartons etc,
and the composting of perishable food scraps etc, that most households
only require rubbish collection once every other week.

One good area seems to be guitar amp servicing and repair. I
share a workshop with two guys who do this, and are up to their
necks in work. Jobs range from new valves and re-bias and
cap changes to full rebuilds.

Some stuff lends itself to repair, some doesn't - for instance, I bet
no-one here has his socks darned any more and precious few will be wearing
shoes that are repairable. But the 'repair vs. replace' debate is an
interesting one - not everything should be repaired and certainly not by
untrained or even 'unlicenced' personnel....

In the case of guitar amps, vintage is still held in high esteem. So old
Marshalls, Engl, and expcially Hi Watts are looked after with lots of
TLC. They are built in such a way that they can be repaired and serviced.

Many are fifty years old and gigging six nights a week.
(The amps, I mean, not the guitar players:-)

Iain

Robber Baron Redux: Location, Location, Location....
 

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 17:55:42 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:

Many are fifty years old and gigging six nights a week.
(The amps, I mean, not the guitar players:-)

No, I think you will find it is both...

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Robber Baron Redux: Location, Location, Location....
 

"Iain Churches" wrote

We have very little landfill material. Recycling places can be found
in
all areas. There are huge skips marked "metal, plastic, wood, TVs,
computers etc etc. In fact the landfill material had decresed so much
by the recycling of all paper, glass, timber, cardboard, milk cartons
etc,
and the composting of perishable food scraps etc, that most households
only require rubbish collection once every other week.


I have just put our 'rubbish wheelie' out and, as usual, it's no more
than half full - that's a fornight's worth.

Anyway, Iain - never mind the rubbish/reclaim - I've been hearing on the
telly lately that we in the UK throw out *30%* of all food bought in
this country! (!!!) I can't even begin to believe this - we throw
virtually *nothing* out here. Kitchen waste (peelings, stalks &c.) goes
on the compost and the odd bit of fat from a chop (or other similar
inedible) goes out on the back lawn and is never there in the morning!

(If that 30% figure is anything like right, there will be a *Biblical*
retribution one day soon, I'm sure - of *Old Testament* proportions!!)


In the case of guitar amps, vintage is still held in high esteem. So
old
Marshalls, Engl, and expcially Hi Watts are looked after with lots of
TLC. They are built in such a way that they can be repaired and
serviced.


Quite and so much flyaway/throwaway stuff these days isn't!!



Many are fifty years old and gigging six nights a week.
(The amps, I mean, not the guitar players:-)


No comment....